striktlymi: Good afternoon MrB,

Why do you think Christians don't follow Christ?

MrBible:

Experience has shown me this.

okeyxyz: If you don't follow Paul, then it's impossible to follow christ, because Paul's letters were the revelation of christ, his parables and the prophesies. Christians are continously trying to imitate the Jesus who walked amongst us over 2000 years ago, but that was the jesus who represented the law instead of the jesus who represented grace. His representation of the Law(sin) was the reason he had to die so that the law(sin) could be legally abolished, but christians still subject themselves to this same law by using that Jesus as a standard for morality and imitation. You have to cast away that Jesus and put on the new, resurrected christ that is dead to the law and therefore free from it and no longer bound to observe the moralities of the law. Therefore you cannot continue to define right and wrong based on how the law defines them. The law reinforces sin but a true christian CANNOT sin because the law is null and void to him.

okeyxyz: If you don't follow Paul, then it's impossible to follow christ, because Paul's letters were the revelation of christ, his parables and the prophesies. Christians are continously trying to imitate the Jesus who walked amongst us over 2000 years ago, but that was the jesus who represented the law instead of the jesus who represented grace. His representation of the Law(sin) was the reason he had to die so that the law(sin) could be legally abolished, but christians still subject themselves to this same law by using that Jesus as a standard for morality and imitation. You have to cast away that Jesus and put on the new, resurrected christ that is dead to the law and therefore free from it and no longer bound to observe the moralities of the law. Therefore you cannot continue to define right and wrong based on how the law defines them. The law reinforces sin but a true christian CANNOT sin because the law is null and void to him.

okeyxyz: If you don't follow Paul, then it's impossible to follow christ, because Paul's letters were the revelation of christ, his parables and the prophesies. Christians are continously trying to imitate the Jesus who walked amongst us over 2000 years ago, but that was the jesus who represented the law instead of the jesus who represented grace. His representation of the Law(sin) was the reason he had to die so that the law(sin) could be legally abolished, but christians still subject themselves to this same law by using that Jesus as a standard for morality and imitation. You have to cast away that Jesus and put on the new, resurrected christ that is dead to the law and therefore free from it and no longer bound to observe the moralities of the law. Therefore you cannot continue to define right and wrong based on how the law defines them. The law reinforces sin but a true christian CANNOT sin because the law is null and void to him.

okeyxyz: If you don't follow Paul, then it's impossible to follow christ, because Paul's letters were the revelation of christ, his parables and the prophesies. [b]Christians are continously trying to imitate the Jesus who walked amongst us over 2000 years ago, but that was the jesus who represented the law instead of the jesus who represented grace. His representation of the Law(sin) was the reason he had to die so that the law(sin) could be legally abolished, but christians still subject themselves to this same law by using that Jesus as a standard for morality and imitation. You have to cast away that Jesus and put on the new, resurrected christ that is dead to the law and therefore free from it and no longer bound to observe the moralities of the law. Therefore you cannot continue to define right and wrong based on how the law defines them. The law reinforces sin but a true christian CANNOT sin because the law is null and void to him.

Goshen360: @ JeSoul,

What okeyxyz wrote there is too much to one to digest but he said the truth. There is an unending REVELATION of Christ and it was Paul who did that job very well because Christ himself REVEALED to him. Well, you asked him (okeyxyz) the question and I will wait for him to answer but I can break down what he said, line-by-line on his behalf. However, I'll leave him to answer for himself.

Image123:

Jesus sighed.

Goshen360: @ Ihedinobi,

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
For the law was given by Moses, but grace and truth came by Jesus Christ. John 1:17

I do understand what you wrote but from the above scriptures, we can build a whole concept and truth on which the New Testament functions. Now, over to you,

1. What do you understand by this verse in respect to, "GIVEN......CAME"?
2. From this verse, can we say words were not just chosen, they were chosen for a perfect understand?....meaning,
3. Moses = Law
4. Jesus = Grace + TRUTH
5. Why not just\only GRACE, why add Truth?
6. Can we deduce that from Grace + Truth which = Jesus; then Moses which = law will also BE Moses = law + LIES

I hope we can pick it from there.....if these questions are answered. Thank you.

Goshen360: @ Ihedinobi, well, I was only asking if we can deduce my statement from the verse quoted. I will address things said by okeyxyz that I supported later.

Ihedinobi:

There is a subtle untruth in this post. It actually is the corruption of a truth. True enough, the believer is no longer a slave to the law but it is entirely untrue to continue from that into "therefore there is no law anymore." That is a terrible lie that makes the Cross of Christ of none effect.

My friend, there is most definitely a law still and it is a far stronger one, a more perfect one than the Law of Moses. In fact, it is actually the Perfect Law which Moses's tried to copy. And this Law is within the Christian. It is such a strict Law. For instance, where Moses says not to commit adultery and is silent on fornication, it says to not even so much as look at a woman with desire in your heart. It is an impossible Law to obey unless it is within the believer and forms new desires and wishes for him.

Every believer is one because they have that law within them directing every move of theirs. When they step out of line, I can assure you that they are always in a hurry to find the line again, there's really nothing so terrible as fighting a civil war with yourself

Anyway, the point is that Jesus brought a New Law, in fact, the Original Law that Moses's aped. And His Death was meant to scatter It into as many lives as would receive it. Moses's Law is useful to comprehend just how much this new Law encompasses. Moses's Law is always pointing on to this Law, so when, for instance, it talks about Sabbath, it seems to say something more to the Christian. It seems to say, "the Lord". When it says circumcision, it points to the Cross.

No sir, we are not free entirely from law, rather we have been saved from an impotent law by a really potent one that is able to do what the impotent one failed to do: to actually destroy the power of sin.

JeSoul: Hmmm, interesting discourse...I wish I had time to dive deep in but alas...lemme just drop a bit:

1 Cor 3:
1Brothers and sisters, I could not address you as people who live by the Spirit but as people who are still worldly—mere infants in Christ. 2I gave you milk, not solid food, for you were not yet ready for it. Indeed, you are still not ready. 3You are still worldly. For since there is jealousy and quarreling among you, are you not worldly? Are you not acting like mere humans? 4 For when one says, “I follow Paul,” and another, “I follow Apollos,” are you not mere human beings?

5What, after all, is Apollos? And what is Paul? Only servants, through whom you came to believe—as the Lord has assigned to each his task. 6I planted the seed, Apollos watered it, but God has been making it grow. 7So neither the one who plants nor the one who waters is anything, but only God, who makes things grow. 8The one who plants and the one who waters have one purpose, and they will each be rewarded according to their own labor. 9For we are co-workers in God’s service; you are God’s field, God’s building.

I follow the one who actually gave His life as a sacrifice to redeem my soul, I follow Jesus Christ. And I recognize those who also follow Christ. I ascribe them their due honor but always remember that they were/are human and therefore subject to human limitations just like the rest of us - whether they are bible authors or not.

Goshen360:

I'm Goshen360 and I ENDORSE this message!

^ However, lemme add more if perhaps, they will understand by this,

New International Version (©2011)
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, in keeping with the promise of life that is in Christ Jesus,

New Living Translation (©2007)
This letter is from Paul, chosen by the will of God to be an apostle of Christ Jesus. I have been sent out to tell others about the life he has promised through faith in Christ Jesus.

English Standard Version (©2001)
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God according to the promise of the life that is in Christ Jesus,

New American Standard Bible (©1995)
Paul, an apostle of Christ Jesus by the will of God, according to the promise of life in Christ Jesus,

King James Bible (Cambridge Ed.)
Paul, an apostle of Jesus Christ by the will of God, according to the promise of life which is in Christ Jesus,

2 Timothy 1:1

okeyxyz: If you don't follow Paul, then it's impossible to follow christ, because Paul's letters were the revelation of christ, his parables and the prophesies. Christians are continously trying to imitate the Jesus who walked amongst us over 2000 years ago, but that was the jesus who represented the law instead of the jesus who represented grace. His representation of the Law(sin) was the reason he had to die so that the law(sin) could be legally abolished, but christians still subject themselves to this same law by using that Jesus as a standard for morality and imitation. You have to cast away that Jesus and put on the new, resurrected christ that is dead to the law and therefore free from it and no longer bound to observe the moralities of the law. Therefore you cannot continue to define right and wrong based on how the law defines them. The law reinforces sin but a true christian CANNOT sin because the law is null and void to him.

Goshen360: @ okeyxyz,

I want us (you & I), to start a "Grace and Law" based discussion on this forum someday.....just discussing and having fellowship with one another. I will be very glad to discuss with you brother.