[quote author=striktlymi]

You really do need to understand sacred scriptures. Jesus came both as God and as man. When he made some comments, it was in the capacity of his humanity and not his divinity. The fact that Jesus is God is not in doubt unless you are saying that Jesus is the one FALSE God!

Isaiah 9:6
New International Version (NIV)
6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called. Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 9:6
King James Version (KJV)
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 9:6
New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
6 For a child has been born for us, a son given to us; authority rests upon his shoulders; and he is named. Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

John 14:8-14
New International Version (NIV)

8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work

Boomark:

Did you post this just because you can't show me where "one God" includes Christ and the Holyspirit.

1Cor 8:6 is not my sentiment nor emotion. The writer stated that one God is the Father. So show us where one God consists of 3 person from the sacred scripture.

Boomark:

Maybe something more dangerous than bulletin made you to refuse to accept that One God according 1Cor 8:6 refers to the Father alone.

frosbel: Wrong.

My Jesus was not a split personality.

You are actually proposing the concept of dualism which is a Greek Pagan concept.

Jesus was a 100% MAN who dies a 100% death as a MAN and was resurrected 100% as a MAN , albeit the Son of GOD.

Be aware that GOD :

1. Cannot be tempted - James 1 :13
2. Does not sleep or slumber - Psalm 121:4
3. Is not a MAN - Numbers 23:19


Isaiah 9:6
New International Version (NIV)
6 For to us a child is born, to us a son is given, and the government will be on his shoulders. And he will be called. Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 9:6
King James Version (KJV)
6 For unto us a child is born, unto us a son is given: and the government shall be upon his shoulder: and his name shall be called Wonderful, Counsellor, The mighty God, The everlasting Father, The Prince of Peace.

Isaiah 9:6
New Revised Standard Version (NRSV)
6 For a child has been born for us, a son given to us; authority rests upon his shoulders; and he is named. Wonderful Counselor, Mighty God, Everlasting Father, Prince of Peace.

Hmmm, I just brought to you as per my previous post the true meaning of this scripture from a well respected Lexicon, did you not even bother reading it ?


John 14:8-14
New International Version (NIV)

8 Philip said, “Lord, show us the Father and that will be enough for us.”

An exclamation, that's all.


9 Jesus answered: “Don’t you know me, Philip, even after I have been among you such a long time? Anyone who has seen me has seen the Father. How can you say, ‘Show us the Father’? 10 Don’t you believe that I am in the Father, and that the Father is in me? The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority. Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work

How could you have missed the underlined :

1. "The words I say to you I do not speak on my own authority"
2. "Rather, it is the Father, living in me, who is doing his work"


I reject the Catholic doctrine of Trinity because it is not biblical.

striktlymi:

Sentiments!!!

striktlymi:

The position you guys hold is even more complicated than the Trinity. You say there is only one God! You come back to say Jesus is a Mighty God while the Father is an Almighty God which makes them two Gods by the way. You also holds that the Father is the one true God. Which would imply that the other Gods are false, including the mighty God. This makes little sense!

Frosbel: I am sure Jesus was not speaking
with himself when he said :
John 17:3
New International Version (NIV)
3 Now this is eternal life: that they
know you, the only true God, and
Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.
2 Simple and plan things to note
here

1. Jesus Christ refers to GOD as the
ONLY True GOD in the Singular.
2. Jesus Christ confirmed that this
ONLY True GOD sent him confirming
this ONLY True GOD's superiority.
Now to the subject of being called
GOD.
Jesus is not the ONLY True GOD but
he is a 'god' , a Mighty god by
virtue of his son-ship to GOD and
remarkable achievement.
'god' in this case wrongly
capitalized to GOD.
There is only ONE True GOD, Jesus
confirmed this and I accept his
verdict not yours

striktlymi: When you guys come up with a better argument without attempting to re-write Sacred scriptures, let me know!

1 applied to men of might and rank, אֵל גוים mighty one of the nations Ezekiel 31:11 (of Nebuchadnezzar;ᵐ5 ἄρχων ἔθνων, איל some MSS. Co); אֵלִים mighty men Job 41:17 (אילים, many MSS. Di); אֵלֵי גִבּוֺרִיםmighty heroes Ezekiel 32:21 (אֵילֵי MSS. Co); אֵילֵי הָאֶרֶץ Ezekiel 17:13; 2 Kings 24:15 (Kt אולי); אֵילִיםExodus 15:15 (probably plural of III. אַיִל, q. v.) These readings are uncertain because of an effort to distinguish these forms from the divine name. אֵל גִּבּוֺר mighty hero (as above) or divine hero (as reflecting the divine majesty) Isaiah 9:6.

http://biblesuite.com/hebrew/410.htm

Boomark:

I understand you. This what i stand for with frosbel. They should have done well if they had considered 1 and 2 below. If they are not trinitarians and knew that the Father is the God of jesus, Rev 3:12. If they considered that Christ is subject to the Father, 1Cor 15:27-28.

italo:

Okay, let me take your own advice.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/eternal e·ter·nal [ih-tur-nl]
adjective
1.
without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing ( opposed to temporal ): eternal life.

http://www.freedictionary.org/?Query=eternal Eternal \E*ter"nal\, a. [F. ['e]ternel, L. aeternalis, fr.
aeternus. See Etern.]
1. Without beginning or end of existence; always existing.
[1913 Webster]

The eternal God is thy refuge. --Deut.
xxxiii. 27.
[1913 Webster]

And my Jesus is the ETERNAL FATHER. Alleluia!

striktlymi:

Good evening truthislight,

It is best that you keep your sentiments when we are discussing the word of God. If you are confused about the definition I gave for eternal, why not ask?

It is very un-Christlike to accuse first and think later!

italo:

Okay, let me take your own advice.

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/eternal e·ter·nal [ih-tur-nl]
adjective
1.
without beginning or end; lasting forever; always existing ( opposed to temporal ): eternal life.

http://www.freedictionary.org/?Query=eternal Eternal \E*ter"nal\, a. [F. ['e]ternel, L. aeternalis, fr.
aeternus. See Etern.]
1. Without beginning or end of existence; always existing.
[1913 Webster]

The eternal God is thy refuge. --Deut.
xxxiii. 27.
[1913 Webster]

And my Jesus is the ETERNAL FATHER. Alleluia!

truthislight:


eternal

(philosophy) existing outside time; as opposed to sempiternal,


1. existing within time but everlastingly
Synonyms:
(lasting forever; unending): permanent,


2. sempiternal, endless, everlasting
(existing outside time, philosophy): timeless,

http://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/eternal#section_1

.........................................................................................

we are humans and live Withing time, as such the "philosophical" definition of eternal of when Jesus became our father is not necessary here(outside time) but a definition "Withing time" since human has a start.

Under definition 1 above we have this as sysnonyms:
(lasting forever; unending): permanent,
= futuristic.
Thanks

frosbel: SHOCKER, WATCH :



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eb5NFpOL5pw

striktlymi:
The question is still unanswered. Does this simple truth make God any less mysterious?
We are not Gods, there is only one God.
This is not convincing! You need to study what it means to say that Christ is the only begotten son of the Father. Saying that Christ is also the Son of the most high is very inappropriate cause you assume that Christ Sonship to the Father is like that of any other man. This is very incorrect!
The above still is not convincing cause it is explicit in Sacred scriptures that we have only one Father who lives for all eternity. Thus to name another Eternal Father when that individual is not him would be very inappropriate. We know that Sacred scriptures is true for all ages and it spoke the truth when it named Christ as the Eternal Father who happens to be God.

And I have already explained why Christ made comments that made himself look lesser than the father. Paul explained it actually in one of his letters. Refer to the passage I quoted before.



C'mon Ij, I am very sure you know what eternal means. How can a fatherhood that is Eternal be limited? It won't make any sense to call Christ Eternal Father and God Eternal Father when Christ does not have the same substance as God. Remember he was called mighty God and don't tell me that he was not called Almighty .



Where did you get the above from? Did Sacred scriptures tell you that Christ was referred to as the Eternal Father because he is the new Adam? Please show us the reference in Sacred scriptures.



I hope you are not trying to digress by bringing up the above? It is entirely irrelevant to the discuss. Unless you want to quote a passage in sacred scriptures where the pope was referred to as the Eternal Father.



Paul has explained why comments like the above were made. Also refer to the contributions of Uben too.



Whether Mighty, Almighty etc there is only one God and that passage referred to Christ as he. The title of the Eternal Father is reserved for God alone.



You seem not to understand what Paul was trying to teach in that passage. Paul was admonishing us to emulate the humility of Christ. There is no contradiction there. Paul used Christ as an example to put across this teaching of humility. Refer to the passage again!



I have explained why the above is.



Refer to my prior discuss!



Now Ij, do you honestly believe that to teach that only God is our Father in one thread and come in another thread to teach that Jesus is also the Eternal Father is an explanation that holds water? Come to think of it, how many Eternal Fathers do we have?



My ish is that your stand point is not consistent with the teaching of only one God if you refer to us as Gods.



For someone who holds that only God is our Father, you really are pointing to a number of Fathers. I wonder where you get all these your teachings from. Please if the bold can be attributed to Sacred scriptures, I need the reference. Or else I believe it would be appropriate to say that some of your teachings are from human traditions which are un-scriptural.



I don't think your arguments stems from Sacred scriptures. You make allusions to things that are not scriptural.



Hmmm...I thought you said you have discussed with Ube a number of times? I guess you haven't been reading his posts cause if you have, you would know his stance on the above. Anyways my guy stop the sentiments and focus on the scriptures since that is your only guide to the truth.
In your words: "your explanations do not hold water".
Do you know what a mystery is? Find out the meaning and you would know why I asked those questions. And by the way, you can as well answer the questions I asked Frosbel up there, they are part of my "thought provoking questions".
Thank you!

Lovethywilbedon: so you think our little human brain can fully understand the Mystery of the TRINITY. Go on! I will see where this will take you. UBENEDICTUS has started finding elements of herery in your post. JUST CONTINUE! Maybe you will become the next Arius.

frosbel: @striktlymi:


We will not let you and your 'mother church' misrepresent the INDIVIDUALITY of GOD

How would you as ONE Person feel if your INDIVIDUALITY were to be taken away ?


"To whom will you compare me? Or who is my equal?" says the Holy One." - Isaiah 40:25


Note the singular pronoun.

Stop confusing yourself Bro, GOD is ONE.

truthislight:

http://en.m.wiktionary.org/wiki/eternal

frosbel:


Read this and note the underlined in relation to the use of GOD in the context of Isaiah 9:6:




And if we were to say that Jesus is GOD , suddenly the whole Mariology doctrine where Mary is the Mother of GOD makes sense

No way mate !!!

Ubenedictus:
bro striktlymi, weldone!
I'll just tell you not to be surprise when questions you've already answered start flying back into the discussion.

striktlymi:

Old argument! Already dealt with a number of times!

#This is just going round in circles!

Ubenedictus:
bro striktlymi, weldone!
I'll just tell you not to be surprise when questions you've already answered start flying back into the discussion.

striktlymi:

Good morning Uben,

Sadly, I keep getting questions that have been answered over and over again. At one point I had to stop the discuss with Ij cause it was getting repetitive.

#I am quite sad that you won't be able to continue with your discuss on the Trinity

ijawkid:

After strikt read that verse he must have been happy seeing that the Father is in Jesus and Jesus in the Father,forgetting that we are all in the Father too and Jesus in us......

I never knew strikt could be holding on to scriptures that are not even close to the trinity dogma....
@strikt:::you can read this portion of the scriptures at your leisure time and also take note of the bolded... John 17:21-23
________________________________
21 that all of them may be one,
Father, just as you are in me and I am in you.
May they also be in us so that the world may
believe that you have sent me. 22 I have given
them the glory that you gave me, that they
may be one as we are one— 23 I in them and
you in me—so that they may be brought to
complete unity. Then the world will know that
you sent me and have loved them even as you
have loved me.
______________________________

Strikt read scriptÙres and stop holding on to UBE's fraudulent comments and philosophy.......

We are all in the Father(the invisible one God,whom no man has seen ),we are all images of the Father(Jesus inclusive)........we are all gravitating towards that unity Jesus has with the Father.......

frosbel:
And if we were to say that Jesus is GOD , suddenly the whole Mariology doctrine where Mary is the Mother of GOD makes sense

No way mate !!!

ijawkid:

......rubbish....ask strikt why he dubiously wrote psalm 50:1 to suit his falsehood...(

ijawkid:

And this is definitly your cop out plan......right??....we are still on psalms 50:1.......

...........

striktlymi:

Good morning truthislight,

I wonder since when wiktionary is now a substitute for a dictionary? You said my definition was wrong but you failed to show why it is wrong.

This does not negate the fact that you accused me falsely and I repeat that this is at the least very insincere and un-Christlike.

You should study why it is said that God is eternal. The eternal existence of God is never futuristic! God is Eternal because he has no beginning and no end. The life he has is Eternal for this same reason.

The fact that we tap into this Eternal life of God at some point does not make it futuristic. Unless you are saying that God's Eternal life started at some future date which is grossly erroneous.

#Learn to put sentiments aside when discussing the word of God!

striktlymi:

Good morning truthislight,

I wonder since when wiktionary is now a substitute for a dictionary? You said my definition was wrong but you failed to show why it is wrong.

truthislight:

Jesus is not almighty God!

The issue is about how Jesus became our "eternal" father and that is futuristic.

striktlymi:

Now I know that you are just one very insincere individual!

truthislight:

"Like mother like son!"

YOU are the one calling "son" almighty here, who then is insincere?

Continue letting yourself to be deceived.