Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name of Allah, The All Compassionate, The All Merciful. As salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh; The peace be upon you, and The Mercy of Allah and HIS Blessings.



A COMPARISON BETWEEN ISLAM, CHRISTIANITY AND JUDAISM AND THE CHOICE BETWEEN THEM.pdf - 1 MB




Wassalaam. DevotedOne

Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name of Allah, The All Compassionate, The All Merciful. As salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh; The peace be upon you, and The Mercy of Allah and HIS Blessings.



I pray, that Christians will learn from this discourse. It may be best to download this pdf, as some (Aramaic) fonts seem not to display well online; or, so it has appeared to me.

Being Like The Teacher by Ramazan M. Zuberi



Wa salaam. DevotedOne

Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name of Allah, The All Compassionate, The All Merciful. As salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh; The peace be upon you, and The Mercy of Allah and HIS Blessings.


I recently began reading the book 'Islam In The Bible' and although I cannot come to terms with some of the descriptions regarding Islam or Christianity, I respect the author for his honesty. It's a challenging read.

http://www.al-islam.org/islaminthebible/index.htm Islam In The Bible by Thomas McElwain




Wassalaam. DevotedOne

DevotedOne: Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name of Allah, The All Compassionate, The All Merciful. As salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh; The peace be upon you, and The Mercy of Allah and HIS Blessings.


I recently began reading the book 'Islam In The Bible' and although I cannot come to terms with some of the descriptions regarding Islam or Christianity, I respect the author for his honesty. It's a challenging read.

http://www.al-islam.org/islaminthebible/index.htm Islam In The Bible by Thomas McElwain

Wassalaam. DevotedOne

Oga DevotedOne, weting you dey talk?

Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name of Allah, The All Compassionate, The All Merciful. As salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh; The peace be upon you, and The Mercy of Allah and HIS Blessings.

alexis:

Oga DevotedOne, weting you dey talk?

Salaam alexis. Please elaborate!




Wassalaam. DevotedOne

DevotedOne: Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name of Allah, The All Compassionate, The All Merciful. As salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh; The peace be upon you, and The Mercy of Allah and HIS Blessings.

Salaam alexis. Please elaborate!

Wassalaam. DevotedOne

Based on your thread, what did you find out. What was your conclusion?

Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name of Allah, The All Compassionate, The All Merciful. As salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh; The peace be upon you, and The Mercy of Allah and HIS Blessings.


Salaam alexis.

Based on your thread, what did you find out. What was your conclusion?

Well, briefly, I found out many things. From the first post, I discovered that some stories in the Old Testament were not befitting of The Exalted, Righteous, and Wise God. They were placed in the Bible to fool the reader into believing that low (gutter) level thinking is good.

The second post 'Being Like The Teacher' basically teaches that Prophet Isa [Jesus, PBUH] wants those that follow Him PBUH, and want to be like Him PBUH, should become Muslims and embrace Islam.

The third post 'Islam In The Bible' shows the beliefs of Christians; Trinity, Jesus as God, and the Only God Allaah (SWT).
The trinity is an impossibility! Allaah (SWT) is not divisible by thirds, and furthermore, of what purpose is three gods?
Jesus PBUH, cannot be God, as God cannot be seen in this world, and Jesus PBUH, was seen by those He PBUH, spoke to. Numbers 23:19 states God Is Not A Man...

And, of course there is NONE like Allaah (SWT).

Isaiah 5. I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6. That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.



Wassalaam. DevotedOne

DevotedOne: Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name of Allah, The All Compassionate, The All Merciful. As salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh; The peace be upon you, and The Mercy of Allah and HIS Blessings.

Salaam alexis.

Well, briefly, I found out many things. From the first post, I discovered that some stories in the Old Testament were not befitting of The Exalted, Righteous, and Wise God. They were placed in the Bible to fool the reader into believing that low (gutter) level thinking is good.

The second post 'Being Like The Teacher' basically teaches that Prophet Isa [Jesus, PBUH] wants those that follow Him PBUH, and want to be like Him PBUH, should become Muslims and embrace Islam.

The third post 'Islam In The Bible' shows the beliefs of Christians; Trinity, Jesus as God, and the Only God Allaah (SWT).
The trinity is an impossibility! Allaah (SWT) is not divisible by thirds, and furthermore, of what purpose is three gods?
Jesus PBUH, cannot be God, as God cannot be seen in this world, and Jesus PBUH, was seen by those He PBUH, spoke to. Numbers 23:19 states God Is Not A Man...

And, of course there is NONE like Allaah (SWT).

Isaiah 5. I am the LORD, and there is none else, there is no God beside me: I girded thee, though thou hast not known me:
6. That they may know from the rising of the sun, and from the west, that there is none beside me. I am the LORD, and there is none else.

Wassalaam. DevotedOne

Interesting. I will like to hear more:

1. It's funny that the Trinity is impossible because the Quran mentioned it. Would you be open to us discussing it so you can explain further
2. Can you show me some of the things that were placed in the OT and by whom? Which part of the OT, Torah, the Psalms?
3. Also, I will like to see how Jesus wants us all to be muslims

I will appreciate your feedback

Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name of Allah, The All Compassionate, The All Merciful. As salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh; The peace be upon you, and The Mercy of Allah and HIS Blessings.




Most of your questions are answered in the appropriate book, as posted above. However, I will attempt some brief answers below.

Interesting. I will like to hear more:

1. It's funny that the Trinity is impossible because the Quran mentioned it. Would you be open to us discussing it so you can explain further I will appreciate your feedback - alexis

Paul may have been a mystic of some kind. As I understand it he formulated the trinity doctrine, and others (see Islam In The Bible page 59). It isn't funny either because it is blasphemy. I find it amazing that people try to explain it. It makes no sense to me, as there is no purpose for it.


005.073 لَقَدْ كَفَرَ الَّذِينَ قَالُوا إِنَّ اللَّهَ ثَالِثُ ثَلاثَةٍ وَمَا مِنْ إِلَهٍ إِلا إِلَهٌ وَاحِدٌ وَإِنْ لَمْ يَنْتَهُوا عَمَّا يَقُولُونَ لَيَمَسَّنَّ الَّذِينَ كَفَرُوا مِنْهُمْ عَذَابٌ أَلِيمٌ
005.073 They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them. Al-Qur'an, 005.073 (Al-Maeda [The Table, The Table Spread]) (see also 4:171).

2. Can you show me some of the things that were placed in the OT and by whom? Which part of the OT, Torah, the Psalms?

Judges 16:1; Ruth 3:4; 1Kings 1-4; Genesis 19:30-38; 35:22; 2 Samuel 16:22; 13:11-14; Ezekiel 16:25- ; 23:2-; many others.

3. Also, I will like to see how Jesus wants us all to be muslims I will appreciate your feedback

The author draws our attention to Luke 6: 40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master.
The Prophets PBUT, were in total submission to Allaah (SWT). When we accept all of the Prophets PBUT of God, and make no difference between them, we are considered as Muslims. Al-Qur'an 10:72. al muslimeen الْمُسْلِمِينَ - One who submits. In Aramaic - Shlam - surrender - become a moslem.

The crucifixion is denied in Islam.

what the author is relating is that Christ Isa [Jesus, PBUH] taught obedience to the Will of Allaah (SWT). He PBUH taught submission or, surrender of the self to Allaah (SWT). Which is being stated as His PBUH, peace - shlama - my way of - obtaining true peace, by totally surrendering soulfully, to Allaah (SWT); "not as the world gives it to you, but as I give it to you." John 14:27 is being related to Al-Qur'an 5:3. Prophet Isa [Jesus, PBUH] is directly telling His PBUH people that in order to be like Him PBUH, you have to be "Mushlam" like He PBUH, was. "Mushlam" is of the same root as Muslim, Islam, Salaam, Shalom, etc.. Mashioome = to convert; to change or turn from one belief or creed to another. To accept or be converted to Moslemism. Mishalmana = Perfect; complete. Mishlam = Completion; End. Mishlama = Moslem; a Mussulman; an Orthodox Mohammedan. You can figure it out for yourselves. Jesus PBUH, prayed as Muslims pray; bowing and prostrating. Christians should follow their teacher.

010.072 فَإِنْ تَوَلَّيْتُمْ فَمَا سَأَلْتُكُمْ مِنْ أَجْرٍ إِنْ أَجْرِيَ إِلا عَلَى اللَّهِ وَأُمِرْتُ أَنْ أَكُونَ مِنَ الْمُسْلِمِينَ
010.072 "But if ye turn back, (consider): no reward have I asked of you: my reward is only due from Allah, and I have been commanded to be of those who submit to Allah's will (in Islam)." Al-Qur'an, 010.072 (Yunus [Jonah])



Wa salaam. DevotedOne

DevotedOne: Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name of Allah, The All Compassionate, The All Merciful. As salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh; The peace be upon you, and The Mercy of Allah and HIS Blessings.
Most of your questions are answered in the appropriate book, as posted above. However, I will attempt some brief answers below.

I rather we chat and talk about it than reading a text without the author engaging me

Paul may have been a mystic of some kind. As I understand it he formulated the trinity doctrine, and others (see Islam In The Bible page 59). It isn't funny either because it is blasphemy. I find it amazing that people try to explain it. It makes no sense to me, as there is no purpose for it.

Contrary to popular belief, the word trinity isn't in the bible, I thought I point that out. Paul didn't invent the RELATIONSHIP OF JESUS CHRIST WITH GOD. Can God have a Son? the Bible says YES; Allah says NO - so this is not Paul doctrine. It's the entire basis of Christianity and the founding principle of every Christian. To Muslims it is blasphemy because you think Jesus Christ is a product of a sexual relationship between Almighty God and a woman. What could be further from the truth. We will get to that

The concept of the God-Head in Christainity (Or Trinity) as most people call it is a source of confusion to all Muslims. And the reason is simple - the author of the Quran or the revelations received by Mohammed from "Gabriel" DENIED THE DEITY OF JESUS CHRIST AND THE RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD..

My question to you is this - The Bible was written 600 years before the advent of Islam. In those 600 years - NO ONE disputed the fact of the deity of Jesus. Jesus was crucified, died on a cross, was buried, rose up from the dead. Ate and stayed with his disciples for many days (to prove He wasn't a Ghost), there were hundreds of witnesses that saw Him alive after He rose from the grave. Bodily ascended into heaven. In all those 600 years, it was never disputed until Mohammed came on the scene. What was Mohammed proof that the Sonship of Jesus Christ was false - He said "Gabriel" revealed it to him from Allah.

So, the implication here is that Allah denied the FACTUAL & HISTORICAL event that happened 600 years ago. Yet Muslims want people to believe that the God of the Bible and Allah are the same.

The Holy Trinity is a simple concept. If you can understand how an atom is made, you should have problem understanding the Holy Trinity. An Atom is a simple matter consisting of protons, neutrons and electrons. If you can understand that - understanding the Holy Trinity shouldn't be rocket science. I will leave it here for now

Judges 16:1; Ruth 3:4; 1Kings 1-4; Genesis 19:30-38; 35:22; 2 Samuel 16:22; 13:11-14; Ezekiel 16:25- ; 23:2-; many others.

Judges 16:1 is a recorded text in the Bible about Samson visiting a prostitute. It talked about the life of Samson, his ups and downs. How is that related to God?

The author draws our attention to Luke 6:40 The disciple is not above his master: but every one that is perfect shall be as his master. The Prophets PBUT, were in total submission to Allaah (SWT). When we accept all of the Prophets PBUT of God, and make no difference between them, we are considered as Muslims. Al-Qur'an 10:72. al muslimeen الْمُسْلِمِينَ - One who submits. In Aramaic - Shlam - surrender - become a moslem.

Let me ask you a simple question - what is the difference between Jesus and Mohammed or any other prophet?

The crucifixion is denied in Islam

. Alot of things are denied in Islam. And a lot of things are not true in the Quran as well. For example, in the Quran, it said Jesus spoke as a baby. Clearly, that is an error. Jesus never spoke as a baby. The Quran said Mary the mother of Jesus was the daughter of Imran (Amram, father of Moses). Mary and Moses were in separate generations. How could that be?

what the author is relating is that Christ Isa [Jesus, PBUH] taught obedience to the Will of Allaah (SWT). He PBUH taught submission or, surrender of the self to Allaah (SWT). Which is being stated as His PBUH, peace - shlama - my way of - obtaining true peace, by totally surrendering soulfully, to Allaah (SWT); "not as the world gives it to you, but as I give it to you." John 14:27 is being related to Al-Qur'an 5:3. Prophet Isa [Jesus, PBUH] is directly telling His PBUH people that in order to be like Him PBUH, you have to be "Mushlam" like He PBUH, was. "Mushlam" is of the same root as Muslim, Islam, Salaam, Shalom, etc.. Mashioome = to convert; to change or turn from one belief or creed to another. To accept or be converted to Moslemism. Mishalmana = Perfect; complete. Mishlam = Completion; End. Mishlama = Moslem; a Mussulman; an Orthodox Mohammedan. You can figure it out for yourselves. Jesus PBUH, prayed as Muslims pray; bowing and prostrating. Christians should follow their teacher.

The above can only be correct if you tell me and prove to me (factual evidence) when Islam started as a religion.

I look forward to hearing from you mate

alexis:

I rather we chat and talk about it than reading a text without the author engaging me



Contrary to popular belief, the word trinity isn't in the bible, I thought I point that out. Paul didn't invent the RELATIONSHIP OF JESUS CHRIST WITH GOD. Can God have a Son? the Bible says YES; Allah says NO - so this is not Paul doctrine. It's the entire basis of Christianity and the founding principle of every Christian. To Muslims it is blasphemy because you think Jesus Christ is a product of a sexual relationship between Almighty God and a woman. What could be further from the truth. We will get to that

The concept of the God-Head in Christainity (Or Trinity) as most people call it is a source of confusion to all Muslims. And the reason is simple - the author of the Quran or the revelations received by Mohammed from "Gabriel" DENIED THE DEITY OF JESUS CHRIST AND THE RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD..

My question to you is this - The Bible was written 600 years before the advent of Islam. In those 600 years - NO ONE disputed the fact of the deity of Jesus. Jesus was crucified, died on a cross, was buried, rose up from the dead. Ate and stayed with his disciples for many days (to prove He wasn't a Ghost), there were hundreds of witnesses that saw Him alive after He rose from the grave. Bodily ascended into heaven. In all those 600 years, it was never disputed until Mohammed came on the scene. What was Mohammed proof that the Sonship of Jesus Christ was false - He said "Gabriel" revealed it to him from Allah.

So, the implication here is that Allah denied the FACTUAL & HISTORICAL event that happened 600 years ago. Yet Muslims want people to believe that the God of the Bible and Allah are the same.

Maybe you really are igniorant of your religion

Early heresies
Main article: Christian heresy#Early Christian heresies

The New Testament itself speaks of the importance of maintaining correct (orthodox) doctrine and refuting heresies, showing the antiquity of the concern.[22] Because of the biblical proscription against false prophets, Christianity has always been occupied with the orthodox interpretation of the faith. Indeed one of the main roles of the bishops in the early Church was to determine and retain important correct beliefs, and refute contrarian opinions, known as heresies. As there were sometimes differing opinions among the bishops on new questions, defining orthodoxy would occupy the Church for some time.

The earliest controversies were often Christological in nature; that is, they were related to Jesus' divinity or humanity. Docetism held that Jesus' humanity was merely an illusion, thus denying the incarnation (Deity becoming human). Arianism held that Jesus, while not merely mortal, was not eternally divine and was, therefore, of lesser status than the Father.[23] Trinitarianism held that the Father, Son, and the Holy Spirit were all strictly one being with three hypostases or persons. Many groups held dualistic beliefs, maintaining that reality was composed into two radically opposing parts: matter, seen as evil, and spirit, seen as good. Such views gave rise to some theology of the "incarnation" that were declared heresies. Most scholars agree that the Bible teaches that both the material and the spiritual worlds were created by God and were therefore both good.[24]

The development of doctrine, the position of orthodoxy, and the relationship between the various opinions is a matter of continuing academic debate. Since most Christians today subscribe to the doctrines established by the Nicene Creed, modern Christian theologians tend to regard the early debates as a unified orthodox position against a minority of heretics. Other scholars, drawing upon distinctions between Jewish Christians, Pauline Christianity, and other groups such as and Marcionites, argue that early Christianity was always fragmented, with contemporaneous competing beliefs.[25]
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Christianity

The Gospel of Barnabas refuted the crci palava

And the soldiers came before him, bowing down in mockery, saluting him as King of the Jews. And they held out their hands to receive gifts, such as new kings are accustomed to give; and receiving nothing they smote Judas, saying: 'Now, how are you crowned, foolish king, if you will not pay your soldiers and servants?' The chief priests with the scribes and Pharisees, seeing that Judas died not by the scourges, and fearing lest Pilate should set him at liberty, made a gift of money to the governor, who having received it gave Judas to the scribes and Pharisees as guilty to death. Whereupon they condemned two robbers with him to the death of the cross. So they led him to Mount Calvary, where they used to hang malefactors, and there they crucified him naked;, for the greater ignominy. Judas truly did nothing else but cry out: 'God, why have you forsaken me, seeing the malefactor has escaped and I die unjustly?' Truly I say that the voice, the face, and the person of Judas were so like to Jesus, that his disciples and believers entirely believed that he was Jesus; wherefore some departed from the doctrine of Jesus, believing that Jesus had been a false prophet, and that by art magic he had done the miracles which he did: for Jesus had said that he should not die till near the end of the world; for that at that time he should be taken away from the world
http://www.sacred-texts.com/isl/gbar/gbar217.htm

Gospel of barnabas is 1500 years.

vedaxcool:

Maybe you really are igniorant of your religion




The Gospel of Barnabas refuted the crci palava



Gospel of barnabas is 1500 years.

Typical example of Islamic defenders - going off topic to prove what - NOTHING. DevotedOne and I was having a good discussion. Please stick to the topic

alexis:

Typical example of Islamic defenders - going off topic to prove what - NOTHING. DevotedOne and I was having a good discussion. Please stick to the topic

Off topic how? christian accusers when ever exposed for telling one lie or the other will confine their lies to off topic, no it is not off topic, your claim is false and it written for all to see;

alexis:

The concept[b] of the God-Head in Christainity (Or Trinity) as most people call it is a source of confusion to all Muslims[/b]. And the reason is simple - the author of the Quran or the revelations received by Mohammed from "Gabriel" DENIED THE DEITY OF JESUS CHRIST AND THE RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD..

wikippedia shows the abvove has been false, saying a statement you made is off topic is your own problem not mine, when next you make an allegation, use some discretion and honesty to be sure of what you are saying, Trininty has been and continues to eb a source of cofusion amongst even before the adevent of the Prophet Muhammad mission


[quote author=alexis]
My question to you is this - The Bible was written 600 years before the advent of Islam. In those 600 years - NO ONE disputed the fact of the deity of Jesus. Jesus was crucified, died on a cross, was buried, rose up from the dead. Ate and stayed with his disciples for many days (to prove He wasn't a Ghost), there were hundreds of witnesses that saw Him alive after He rose from the grave. Bodily ascended into heaven. In all those 600 years, it was never disputed until

Clearly your insuation have ben shown to be false again as group before teh advent of Islam doubted the story of the cruxifixion;


On the other hand, if the concept of another crucified in place of Jesus sounds foreign to Christianity, it isn’t. Amongst the early Christian groups the Corinthians, the Basilidians, the Paulicians, and the Carpocrations all believe Christ Jesus to have been spared. The Basilidians, in specific, believe that Simon of Cyrene was crucified in his place. Typical of such dissenting groups, all of the above were judged to have been Gnostics and/or heretics by the orthodox Church, and were violently suppressed by a Trinitarian majority who systematically burned dissenters into oblivion for the first fifteen centuries of Roman Catholic rule.


So when next you decied to run your mouth be always willing to prove it else we might have to believe you are simply engaging in evagelism by lies

Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name of Allah, The All Compassionate, The All Merciful. As salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh; The peace be upon you, and The Mercy of Allah and HIS Blessings.




Salaam alexis.

I rather we chat and talk about it than reading a text without the author engaging me

The concept of the God-Head in Christainity (Or Trinity) as most people call it is a source of confusion to all Muslims. And the reason is simple - the author of the Quran or the revelations received by Mohammed from "Gabriel" DENIED THE DEITY OF JESUS CHRIST AND THE RELATIONSHIP WITH GOD..

That's blasphemy. Who should know best, man, or his Creator?

My question to you is this - The Bible was written 600 years before the advent of Islam. In those 600 years - NO ONE disputed the fact of the deity of Jesus. Jesus was crucified, died on a cross, was buried, rose up from the dead. Ate and stayed with his disciples for many days (to prove He wasn't a Ghost), there were hundreds of witnesses that saw Him alive after He rose from the grave. Bodily ascended into heaven. In all those 600 years, it was never disputed until Mohammed came on the scene. What was Mohammed proof that the Sonship of Jesus Christ was false - He said "Gabriel" revealed it to him from Allah.

You cannot prove that the Bible came before Islam. All of the Prophets PBUT, were in total submission to Allaah (SWT). Hence, they all were Muslims, and they all submitted to Allaah (SWT), in Islam, never mind what name was used for it, in what ever language. Your argument probably should be with language. One Creator Only, made the entire creation. HE, Is The Self-Sufficient, The High Exalted, The Self-Subsisting in whom all subsist. What other god do you know of, that can create anything without the help of Allaah (SWT)? There is none. Because Allaah, Blessed Is HE, Forevermore, Alone, Is God.

So, the implication here is that Allah denied the FACTUAL & HISTORICAL event that happened 600 years ago. Yet Muslims want people to believe that the God of the Bible and Allah are the same.

You may give The Only God, a name that makes you glad. Some insist that HE (SWT), Is Nameless. In Islam, Allaah (SWT), Whom Is without gender, is referred to as HE, due to the fact of Adam PBUH, being the first man in creation.

The Holy Trinity is a simple concept. If you can understand how an atom is made, you should have problem understanding the Holy Trinity. An Atom is a simple matter consisting of protons, neutrons and electrons. If you can understand that - understanding the Holy Trinity shouldn't be rocket science. I will leave it here for now

The trinity is confusion. I understand the concept of molecular structure. What you fail to come to terms with, is the fact that Allaah (SWT), Is uncreated. And, the fact that HE, All Praise Is Due HIM, had no beginning, (HE (SWT), always, Is, The Only Reality (God)), and has no end ( and cannot cease to be Allaah (SWT) ). Everything else in creation, had a beginning, and will be given an end.

Judges 16:1 is a recorded text in the Bible about Samson visiting a prostitute. It talked about the life of Samson, his ups and downs. How is that related to God?

How are any of the verses I've posted related to God? What purpose do they serve regarding a persons salvation? Do you care about who Samson visited? Why was it even mentioned?

Let me ask you a simple question - what is the difference between Jesus and Mohammed or any other prophet?

What of their similarities? They all submitted to Allaah (SWT), in Islam. You may not recognize what remains of the past religions due to alterations that have taken place in them. Hence, the appearence of Prophet Muhammad Mustafa, with the right Way of life, Qur'an's revelation, to put things into righteous order.

Alot of things are denied in Islam. And a lot of things are not true in the Quran as well. For example, in the Quran, it said Jesus spoke as a baby. Clearly, that is an error. Jesus never spoke as a baby. The Quran said Mary the mother of Jesus was the daughter of Imran (Amram, father of Moses). Mary and Moses were in separate generations. How could that be?

I would think that you, not knowing what your Creator knows, should accept HIS (SWT), truthful Word. Allaah (SWT), does not err! Qur'an 5:110, 19:34. Imran is not found in the Bible. Amram can be found in Exodus 6:20, Numbers 26:59, 1Chronicles 1:41. The metaphoric use of 'sister of Aaron' in Qur'an 19:28, need not be taken literally, it is figurative language, I would think. If memory serves me correctly and traditions are accurate, Mary's mother was named Hanna (not Jochebed).

The above can only be correct if you tell me and prove to me (factual evidence) when Islam started as a religion.

I look forward to hearing from you mate

Well, were back to finding the correct word, in whatever language, and which past, correct religion. Then I can tell you truthfully, to follow the Prophets PBUT, of God, as they all will lead you to the religion that Allaah (SWT), The One God, has chosen for you.

This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion.

Qur'an 5:3



Wassalaam. DevotedOne

That's blasphemy. Who should know best, man, or his Creator?

You and I don't agree who is the creator and who isn't. For example, It has been proven that Allah and God of the Bible are not the same. Please correct me if I am wrong - how did Mohammed receive the words of the Quran?

You cannot prove that the Bible came before Islam. All of the Prophets PBUT, were in total submission to Allaah (SWT). Hence, they all were Muslims, and they all submitted to Allaah (SWT), in Islam, never mind what name was used for it, in what ever language. Your argument probably should be with language. One Creator Only, made the entire creation. HE, Is The Self-Sufficient, The High Exalted, The Self-Subsisting in whom all subsist. What other god do you know of, that can create anything without the help of Allaah (SWT)? There is none. Because Allaah, Blessed Is HE, Forevermore, Alone, Is God.

I can prove Jesus came before Muhammed - you can't deny that fact. The concept is simple. For example, there were no Christians or anyone called a Christian before Jesus was born. There were Jews and Judaism but not Christians. There were no followers of Christ. So, how can all the prophets like Abraham, David, Elijah be Muslims when they have never heard of Allah. Allah came on the scene when Mohammed came of the scene. I don't think you can argue that. For example, I can't claim Abraham was a Christian because he never heard of Jesus but parts of the Jewish laws and Christian laws are common.

You may give The Only God, a name that makes you glad. Some insist that HE (SWT), Is Nameless. In Islam, Allaah (SWT), Whom Is without gender, is referred to as HE, due to the fact of Adam PBUH, being the first man in creation.

I am not talking about the gender of God. I am talking about His attributes, His character, His teachings, His laws. How can the God of the Bible and Allah be the same if they both teach different things? For example, The God in the Bible confirmed Jesus is His Son. Allah denies that.

The trinity is confusion. I understand the concept of molecular structure. What you fail to come to terms with, is the fact that Allaah (SWT), Is uncreated. And, the fact that HE, All Praise Is Due HIM, had no beginning, (has always existed), and has no end (and cannot die!). Everything else in creation, had a beginning, and will be given an end.

There is a difference between UNDERSTANDING and BELIEVING. You have proven my point. I don't expect you to BELIEVE it but I expect that understanding the concept of the Holy Trinity is as simple as understanding the molecular structure on an Atom

How are any of the verses I've posted related to God? What purpose do they serve regarding a persons salvation? Do you care about who Samson visited? Why was it even mentioned?

The entire Bible is not only about salvation. Just the same way the entire Quran is not only about violence.

What of their similarities? They all submitted to Allaah (SWT), in Islam. You may not recognize what remains of the past religions due to alterations that have taken place in them. Hence, the appearence of Prophet Muhammad Mustafa, with the right Way of life, Qur'an's revelation, to put things into righteous order.

I asked what makes them different mate. How could Jesus submit to Allah when Allah was non existent when Jesus was alive. What proof do you have outside the Quran that Jesus submitted to Allah. Remember, Jesus was a Jew, His life and teachings were recorded in the Bible before the advent of Islam. So, give me some historical facts and evidence that He submitted to Allah outside of the Quran.

I would think that you, not knowing what your Creator knows, should accept HIS (SWT), truthful Word. Allaah (SWT), does not err! Qur'an 5:110, 19:34. Imran is not found in the Bible. Amram can be found in Exodus 6:20, Numbers 26:59, 1Chronicles 1:41. The metaphoric use of 'sister of Aaron' in Qur'an 19:28, need not be taken literally, it is figurative language, I would think. If memory serves me correctly and traditions are accurate, Mary's mother was named Hanna (not Jochebed).

Another blunder. Allah should be consistent when describing biblical events, wouldn't you think? He is suppose to be all knowing - won't you think He should have made it clear as to what He meant? The Bible made it clear when it described Moses, Aaron and other characters of that generation. Your attempt at rescuing the Quran is at best laughable . Here is another one. HOW MANY DAYS DID ALLAH TAKE TO CREATE THE EARTH IN THE QURAN

1. Surah 41:9 Says two days
2. Surah 41:10 says four days
3. Surah 32:4 says six days
4. Surah 7:54, 103 says six days
5. Surah 10:3 says six days

I wouldn't be surprised if you try to add 4 and 2 to say 4,2 and 6 are the same. Of course, the Quran DOES NOT SAY THAT. Can you tell me how many days it took Allah to create the world?

Well, were back to finding the correct word, in whatever language, and which past, correct religion. Then I can tell you truthfully, to follow the Prophets PBUT, of God, as they all will lead you to the religion that Allaah (SWT), The One God, has chosen for you. Qur'an 5:3 Wassalaam. DevotedOne

How can I follow Allah when he doesn't like Jews and Christians?

Surah 9:29-30: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Allah curses Jews & Christians and you want me to follow Him?

Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name of Allah, The All Compassionate, The All Merciful. As salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh; The peace be upon you, and The Mercy of Allah and HIS Blessings.




Salaam alexis.

You and I don't agree who is the creator and who isn't. For example, It has been proven that Allah and God of the Bible are not the same. Please correct me if I am wrong - how did Mohammed receive the words of the Quran?

I can understand why, considering some of the unbefitting utterances found in the Old Testament Bible, will not be found in Al-Qur'an. What I cannot understand is how someone could believe God spoke something so beneath HIS (SWT), Exalted status.

Muhammad PBUH, received The Holy Qur'an from Allaah (SWT), through the Arch Angel Jibril/Gabriel; The Spirit of Truth.

I can prove Jesus came before Muhammed - you can't deny that fact. The concept is simple. For example, there were no Christians or anyone called a Christian before Jesus was born. There were Jews and Judaism but not Christians. There were no followers of Christ. So, how can all the prophets like Abraham, David, Elijah be Muslims when they have never heard of Allah. Allah came on the scene when Mohammed came of the scene. I don't think you can argue that. For example, I can't claim Abraham was a Christian because he never heard of Jesus but parts of the Jewish laws and Christian laws are common.

Again, your argument probably should be regarding language. The key word, is submission or, surrender: Muslim, Salaam, Shalom, etc.. Think about that. God, is still God. As I have mentioned some people claim that God is nameless. What of, "I AM THAT I AM."
As an aside; there was no 'Christian' when Jesus PBUH, was on the earth! Paul, named you all Christians.

I am not talking about the gender of God. I am talking about His attributes, His character, His teachings, His laws. How can the God of the Bible and Allah be the same if they both teach different things? For example, The God in the Bible confirmed Jesus is His Son. Allah denies that.

Because the original message was the same as the present message in the Holy Qur'an. Its just that plain. Nothing difficult. This thing that Paul concocted (trinity), is repugnant. Who would not reject it?

There is a difference between UNDERSTANDING and BELIEVING. You have proven my point. I don't expect you to BELIEVE it but I expect that understanding the concept of the Holy Trinity is as simple as understanding the molecular structure on an Atom

I am really surprised that Christians will accept something so underhanded, as if it was truth. I must wonder about how, this stealthily formulated doctrine, could have beguiled, so many, for so long a period of time.

The entire Bible is not only about salvation. Just the same way the entire Quran is not only about violence.

You're saying that the Bible is not about deliverance from the power and effects of sin. I've noticed in the verses that I 'd posted previously, that there is the inclination towards 'fooling around'. Is that what you are intimating/hinting at?
Concerning violence; war is an act of vigorous conflict, is it not?

I asked what makes them different mate. How could Jesus submit to Allah when Allah was non existent when Jesus was alive. What proof do you have outside the Quran that Jesus submitted to Allah. Remember, Jesus was a Jew, His life and teachings were recorded in the Bible before the advent of Islam. So, give me some historical facts and evidence that He submitted to Allah outside of the Quran.

You will have to stop with the innuendo's, towards your Lord God, otherwise I am not permitted to continue with this conversation.

004.140 وَقَدْ نَزَّلَ عَلَيْكُمْ فِي الْكِتَابِ أَنْ إِذَا سَمِعْتُمْ آيَاتِ اللَّهِ يُكْفَرُ بِهَا وَيُسْتَهْزَأُ بِهَا فَلا تَقْعُدُوا مَعَهُمْ حَتَّى يَخُوضُوا فِي حَدِيثٍ غَيْرِهِ إِنَّكُمْ إِذًا مِثْلُهُمْ إِنَّ اللَّهَ جَامِعُ الْمُنَافِقِينَ وَالْكَافِرِينَ فِي جَهَنَّمَ جَمِيعًا
004.140 Already has He sent you Word in the Book, that when ye hear the signs of Allah held in defiance and ridicule, ye are not to sit with them unless they turn to a different theme: if ye did, ye would be like them. For Allah will collect the hypocrites and those who defy faith - all in Hell:- Al-Qur'an, 004.140 (An-Nisa [Women])

You must tell me what makes them different, mate. I only see similarities in them. They both -- Jesus and Muhammad PBUT, -- prayed to the same God, bowing and prostrating, etcetera. Whom do you believe Jesus PBUH, was praying to if not Allaah (SWT), the Only God. Again, you are only playing with words. I've not detected any sincere effort on your part to grasp the enlightening understanding, of the Infinite Immortal God. You portray God, as a man needing food, shelter, sleep, protection from enemies, and the requirement to use the toilet. That is not befitting of Allaah (SWT), Most Gracious, Ever Merciful, The Eternal, The Righteous, The Owner Of Sovereignty, The Lord Of Majesty And Bounty, The Self-Sufficient, The Supreme, The Self-Subsisting In Whom All Subsist.

Another blunder. Allah should be consistent when describing biblical events, wouldn't you think? He is suppose to be all knowing - won't you think He should have made it clear as to what He meant? The Bible made it clear when it described Moses, Aaron and other characters of that generation. Your attempt at rescuing the Quran is at best laughable smiley. Here is another one. HOW MANY DAYS DID Allah TAKE TO CREATE THE EARTH IN THE QURAN

1. Surah 41:9 Says two days
2. Surah 41:10 says four days
3. Surah 32:4 says six days
4. Surah 7:54, 103 says six days
5. Surah 10:3 says six days

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? What did you find to be 'not clear'? Allaah (SWT), wants HIS (SWT), servants to 'think'.
HE (SWT), made the earth in two days, and completed the earth's appropriations - mountains, blessings, sustenance, etc. in four days.
Surely you can gather that together. What is more, these 'day's' need not be earth day's.

070.004 تَعْرُجُ الْمَلائِكَةُ وَالرُّوحُ إِلَيْهِ فِي يَوْمٍ كَانَ مِقْدَارُهُ خَمْسِينَ أَلْفَ سَنَةٍ
070.004 The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years: Al-Qur'an, 070.004 (Al-Maarij [The Ascending Stairways])

I wouldn't be surprised if you try to add 4 and 2 to say 4,2 and 6 are the same. Of course, the Quran DOES NOT SAY THAT. Can you tell me how many days it took Allah to create the world?

How can I follow Allah when he doesn't like Jews and Christians?

I am certain the verse('s) do not refer to believers, those in submission to Allaah (SWT).


Surah 9:29-30: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Allah curses Jews & Christians and you want me to follow Him?

You must have a reading comprehension problem, mate.





Wassalaam. DevotedOne

Hey mate, how's it going. I hope you are well

I can understand why, considering some of the unbefitting utterances found in the Old Testament Bible, will not be found in Al-Qur'an. What I cannot understand is how someone could believe God spoke something so beneath HIS (SWT), Exalted status.

You lost me here, what are you talking about?

Muhammad PBUH, received The Holy Qur'an from Allaah (SWT), through the Arch Angel Jibril/Gabriel; The Spirit of Truth.

Many times when Muhammed said that a sura had just descended from heaven, many Arabs suspected something was fishy. And so, we have this verse:

"Whenever there cometh down a surah, the look at each other, (Saying), "Doth anyone see you (when it was coming down from heaven)? Then they turn aside: Allah hath turned thier hearts (from the light): for they are a people that understand not - Surah 9:127

History tells us that Mohammed had a "Christian" friend called Jabr, whom Mohammed always visited at Marwah Quarters, not too far from his house. The allegation was that when Mohammend visited Jabr and heard the stories of the Bible, some were put on record. People believed that Mohammed usually presented these parchments and claimed he had received them hot from heaven through the angel Gabriel. Mohammed refuted this strong allegation through another "revelation" from "Gabriel" in Surah 16:103.

Surah 16:103 says that it couldn't be Jabr because he was of a foreign tongue and the revelations came down in Arabic. So, the Quran is denying that it was Jabr because he couldn't speak Arabic. The question is this - How could Habr be a close friend to Muhammed (if he did not understand arabic?). Jabr lived long in Arabia. Besides, Mohammed was an illiterate and understood no other language. We must also realize that Mohammed main secretary was a Jew. That means too that the Jewish background of Jabr could not be a plausible reason why he couldn't have helped Mohammed in his collection of what is now called the Quran.

Let us visit the claim again from the Quran that it couldn't have been Jabr that was helping Mohammed. The reason the Quran gave was that Jabr didn't speak pure and clear Arabic. So, the Quran is saying that all it's contents are in "Pure Arabic". However, there are Persian, Syriac, Hebrew, Old Egyptian, Assyrian and Greek words in the Arabic Quran. There are over 107 non Arabic words in the Quran. So, the claim that the Quran is in pure and clear Arabic doesn't hold water and the revelation of "Angel Gabriel" has some question mark on it. The use of many foreign words, rather than supporting Muhammed's defense, is strong evidence to the contrary, indicating that the mysterious finger behind the Quran is that of a man who knew more than one language.

People like you (DevotedOne) don't want to believe that Mohammeds "visions" could have been obtained from other sources. They do not want to believe that quite a number of people who surrounded him were acquainted with the stories in the Bible. History is not on your side mate. I WILL SAVE MORE FOR MY NEXT POST

Again, your argument probably should be regarding language. The key word, is submission or, surrender: Muslim, Salaam, Shalom, etc.. Think about that. God, is still God. As I have mentioned some people claim that God is nameless. What of, "I AM THAT I AM." As an aside; there was no 'Christian' when Jesus PBUH, was on the earth! Paul, named you all Christians.

It is not a matter of language, it's matter of history and facts. Your Quran tries to identify who the first muslim was contrary to what you are saying:

When Islam fully developed, Muhammed said Islam started from the creation of man, so Adam was the first muslim. However, Surah 6:14, 163 says that Muhammed was the first to surrender to Allah and become a muslim. Yet Surah 7:143 days Moses was the first muslim. So, this disarms your argument that it is a matter of language. You Quran gave 3 different stories on who the first muslim was and it wasn't even sure who it was.

You are right, the followers of Christ weren't called Christians when Jesus was alive. Can you please tell me in the Bible were PAUL NAMED the followers of Christ Christians.

Because the original message was the same as the present message in the Holy Qur'an. Its just that plain. Nothing difficult. This thing that Paul concocted (trinity), is repugnant. Who would not reject it?

Again, Trinity isn't a word that can be found in the Bible. I don't expect you to believe it. However, it's sufficient that you understand it

I am really surprised that Christians will accept something so underhanded, as if it was truth. I must wonder about how, this stealthily formulated doctrine, could have beguiled, so many, for so long a period of time.

Again, I don't expect you to believe it - the FACT that you can relate the Holy Trinity to an atom or vice-versa is sufficient to me. I had to give you a trivial example to comprehend of basis of the Christian faith.

Before I get to the very simple proof, I want to say that true Christians believe in one God, not three. Almost every true Christian denomination or nominal Christian denomination will point out in their statement of fundamental truths that there is only one God. As one reads the Bible assisted ONLY by the Holy Spirit of God, one will clearly see that...

The Father Is God
The Son Is God
The Holy Spirit Is God

BUT there is only God, and can be only one God.

The word "Trinity", while not found in the Bible, expresses in one word, the truth of the Bible that there is one God subsisting as Father, Son, and Holy Spirit. Instead of the word "Trinity", you will find the word "Godhead"

Let me break it down for you again:

1. There is only one of you or me, we are a body, soul, and spirit
2. There is one substance called water, but it is usually -- found as water, ice, and vapor

You're saying that the Bible is not about deliverance from the power and effects of sin. I've noticed in the verses that I 'd posted previously, that there is the inclination towards 'fooling around'. Is that what you are intimating/hinting at? Concerning violence; war is an act of vigorous conflict, is it not?

That is not what I am saying - the Bible consists of many books. Some talk about prophecies (Isaiah & Jeremiah), some talk about wisdom (Book of Proverbs), Others about poetry and praise to God (Psalms), The creation of the world (Genesis) and so many. Not all the books of the Bible is about salvation. I hope that makes sense

There is a big difference between wars and violence. Check your dictionary

You will have to stop with the innuendo's, towards your Lord God, otherwise I am not permitted to continue with this conversation.
You must tell me what makes them different, mate. I only see similarities in them. They both -- Jesus and Muhammad PBUT, -- prayed to the same God, bowing and prostrating, etcetera. Whom do you believe Jesus PBUH, was praying to if not Allaah (SWT), the Only God. Again, you are only playing with words. I've not detected any sincere effort on your part to grasp the enlightening understanding, of the Infinite Immortal God. You portray God, as a man needing food, shelter, sleep, protection from enemies, and the requirement to use the toilet. That is not befitting of Allaah (SWT), Most Gracious, Ever Merciful, The Eternal, The Righteous, The Owner Of Sovereignty, The Lord Of Majesty And Bounty, The Self-Sufficient, The Supreme, The Self-Subsisting In Whom All Subsist.

Let me make it simple for you:

1. If we serve the same God - you would believe Jesus is the son of God
2. Allah said Jesus didn't die and wasn't raised from the dead. God of the Bible said Jesus did
3. Allah says Jesus created a living bird from clay. God of the bible never said anything like that

These are just trivial and simple examples. How can the same God, give two different accounts to the same story?

Do you have a reading comprehension problem? What did you find to be 'not clear'? Allaah (SWT), wants HIS (SWT), servants to 'think'. HE (SWT), made the earth in two days, and completed the earth's appropriations - mountains, blessings, sustenance, etc. in four days. Surely you can gather that together. What is more, these 'day's' need not be earth day's.

070.004 تَعْرُجُ الْمَلائِكَةُ وَالرُّوحُ إِلَيْهِ فِي يَوْمٍ كَانَ مِقْدَارُهُ خَمْسِينَ أَلْفَ سَنَةٍ
070.004 The angels and the spirit ascend unto him in a Day the measure whereof is (as) fifty thousand years: Al-Qur'an, 070.004 (Al-Maarij [The Ascending Stairways])

Ha, so you even know more than the author of the Quran. Let me disarm your statements:

1. He wants his servants to think he created it in 2 days: Why would Almighty God want to confuse his subjects mate. Lets read it again S[b]urah 41:9[/b] === Say: Is it that ye deny Him Who created the earth in two Days? And do ye join equals with Him? He is the Lord of (all) the Worlds

From the verse above, it clearly asks a question. Allah wasn't trying to confuse anyone. So try harder. At least tell us how many days Allah create the world for a start

I am certain the verse('s) do not refer to believers, those in submission to Allaah (SWT).

Say what? He clearly states that He doesn't like Jews & Christians - How can you deny that?

Surah 9:29-30: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

You must have a reading comprehension problem, mate.

The question again is this - Did he curse the Jews and Christians from the Surah above?

alexis:

How can I follow Allah when he doesn't like Jews and Christians?

Surah 9:29-30: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Apostle, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued. The Jews call 'Uzair a son of Allah, and the Christians call Christ the son of Allah. That is a saying from their mouth; (in this) they but imitate what the unbelievers of old used to say. Allah's curse be on them: how they are deluded away from the Truth!

Allah curses Jews & Christians and you want me to follow Him?

But you can follow a god that hates non Jews?

Mark
7:26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.
7:27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.
7:28 And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs.
7:29 And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter.
7:30 And when she was come to her house, she found the devil gone out, and her daughter laid upon the bed.

vedaxcool:

But you can follow a god that hates non Jews?

Mark
7:26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.
7:27 But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.
7:28 And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs.
7:29 And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter.
7:30 And when she was come to her house, she found the devil gone out, and her daughter laid upon the bed.

What has the Book for Mark in the NT has to do with Allah cursing Jews and Christians? Side-stepping the question I raised and trying to taint the image of Jesus

If He hated her - why did He heal her daughter?

alexis:

What has the Book for Mark in the NT has to do with Allah cursing Jews and Christians? Side-stepping the question I raised and trying to taint the image of Jesus

If He hated her - why did He heal her daughter?

SO if one calls you dogs he do out of love?



Mark
7:26 The woman was a Greek, a Syrophenician by nation; and she besought him that he would cast forth the devil out of her daughter.
7:27 [size=18pt]But Jesus said unto her, Let the children first be filled: for it is not meet to take the children's bread, and to cast it unto the dogs.[/size]
7:28 And she answered and said unto him, Yes, Lord: yet the dogs under the table eat of the children's crumbs.
7:29 And he said unto her, For this saying go thy way; the devil is gone out of thy daughter.
7:30 And when she was come to her house, she found the devil gone out, and her daughter laid upon the bed.

Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name of Allah, The All Compassionate, The All Merciful. As salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh; The peace be upon you, and The Mercy of Allah and HIS Blessings.


Salaam Alexis.

You and I don't agree who is the creator and who isn't. For example, It has been proven that Allah and God of the Bible are not the same. Please correct me if I am wrong - how did Mohammed receive the words of the Quran? -- Alexis

I can understand why, considering some of the unbefitting utterances found in the Old Testament Bible, will not be found in Al-Qur'an. What I cannot understand is how someone could believe God spoke something so beneath HIS (SWT), Exalted, Holy status.-- DevotedOne

Muhammad PBUH, received The Holy Qur'an from Allaah (SWT), through the Arch Angel Jibril/Gabriel; The Spirit of Truth.-- DevotedOne

You lost me here, what are you talking about? -- Alexis

People like you (DevotedOne) don't want to believe that Mohammeds "visions" could have been obtained from other sources. They do not want to believe that quite a number of people who surrounded him were acquainted with the stories in the Bible. History is not on your side mate. I WILL SAVE MORE FOR MY NEXT POST

Allaah (SWT), has a challenge, for people like you. Write ten suras like it.

011.013 أَمْ يَقُولُونَ افْتَرَاهُ قُلْ فَأْتُوا بِعَشْرِ سُوَرٍ مِثْلِهِ مُفْتَرَيَاتٍ وَادْعُوا مَنِ اسْتَطَعْتُمْ مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ صَادِقِينَ
011.013 Or they may say, "He forged it," Say, "Bring ye then ten suras forged, like unto it, and call (to your aid) whomsoever ye can, other than Allah!- If ye speak the truth! Al-Qur'an, 011.013 (Hud [Hud])

You are right, the followers of Christ weren't called Christians when Jesus was alive. Can you please tell me in the Bible were PAUL NAMED the followers of Christ Christians.

I don't know who it was exactly, but Saul/Paul, was present it seems to me: Acts 11:25-26. Is he a prophet that you follow him?

Again, Trinity isn't a word that can be found in the Bible. I don't expect you to believe it. However, it's sufficient that you understand it

If it is not in your Bible, why do you follow something obviously fashioned from your own desire? And, I didn't say that I understood trinity. In fact I find it quite confusing. Why do you need three gods?

Again, I don't expect you to believe it - the FACT that you can relate the Holy Trinity to an atom or vice-versa is sufficient to me. I had to give you a trivial example to comprehend of basis of the Christian faith.

Your relating an atom to three gods, is proof of the materialistic nature, of the gods that you've fashioned in your brain consciousness.

There is a big difference between wars and violence. Check your dictionary.

You mentioned it; you should know.

Let me make it simple for you:

1. If we serve the same God - you would believe Jesus is the son of God
2. Allah said Jesus didn't die and wasn't raised from the dead. God of the Bible said Jesus did
3. Allah says Jesus created a living bird from clay. God of the bible never said anything like that

These are just trivial and simple examples. How can the same God, give two different accounts to the same story?

Who ever you are getting your stories/examples, from is not the One True God, Allaah (SWT). Obviously, someone is lying to you.

The question again is this - Did he curse the Jews and Christians from the Surah above?

What if HE (SWT), did? They were instructed, to believe in Allaah (SWT), the Last Day, to forbid that which Allaah (SWT), has forbidden, by HIS (SWT), messenger, and to acknowledge the religion of truth. And you continue to call Prophet Jesus PBUH, the son of Allaah (SWT), even though you have been warned of your error. You people must love the Fire!




Wassalaam. DevotedOne

What has Jesus got to do with Allah cursing Jews and Christians? Allah was cursing Jews and Christians because of their belief. Why would the "maker" or "God" of the muslims curse the people He "supposedly" created because their religious view-point is different - FIGURE THAT OUT.

I am tempted to explain the story of "The Syrophoenician Woman's Faith" to you but I see you are trying to compare Allah's solemn utterance to invoke a supernatural power to inflict harm or punishment on Jews & Christians - that is the definition of a CURSE by the way with the faith of the Syrophoenician Woman.

IF ONE HEALS YOUR SICK CHILD DOES HE DO IT OUT OF HATE. Again, please leave Jesus out of this to prove the HATE Allah had for Christians and Jews

Hey mate, hope you had a good day.

Allaah (SWT), has a challenge, for people like you. Write ten suras like it.
011.013 أَمْ يَقُولُونَ افْتَرَاهُ قُلْ فَأْتُوا بِعَشْرِ سُوَرٍ مِثْلِهِ مُفْتَرَيَاتٍ وَادْعُوا مَنِ اسْتَطَعْتُمْ مِنْ دُونِ اللَّهِ إِنْ كُنْتُمْ صَادِقِينَ
011.013 Or they may say, "He forged it," Say, "Bring ye then ten suras forged, like unto it, and call (to your aid) whomsoever ye can, other than Allah!- If ye speak the truth! Al-Qur'an, 011.013 (Hud [Hud])

What Surahs are you talking about? I can bring certain Surahs that I need some clarification on if that is what you are asking?

I don't know who it was exactly, but Saul/Paul, was present it seems to me: Acts 11:25-26. Is he a prophet that you follow him?

Get your facts straight next time . However, I will be interested to know

If it is not in your Bible, why do you follow something obviously fashioned from your own desire? And, I didn't say that I understood trinity. In fact I find it quite confusing. Why do you need three gods?

Again, the WORD Trinity is not in the Bible. The WORD GodHead is in the bible and it means the same thing. There is no need to visit this again mate - You understand the concept of an atom, that is enough for me

Your relating an atom to three gods, is proof of the materialistic nature, of the gods that you've fashioned in your brain consciousness.

The example I gave was so YOU COULD RELATE, I wasn't relating God to an atom - IT WAS AN ELEMENTARY example for you to understand SINCE YOU HAVE SUCH A HARD-TIME UNDERSTANDING the concept of the Holy Trinity but you can easily grasp the physics concept of an Atom or the different states of water . Again - you don't have to believe or accept it.

You mentioned it; you should know.

Fair enough - this is a whole topic altogether so I will leave it.

Who ever you are getting your stories/examples, from is not the One True God, Allaah (SWT). Obviously, someone is lying to you.

If they are stories, please refute them with EVIDENCE and provide FACTUAL EVIDENCE. So far that is what I have done and you have called them stories.

What if HE (SWT), did? They were instructed, to believe in Allaah (SWT), the Last Day, to forbid that which Allaah (SWT), has forbidden, by HIS (SWT), messenger, and to acknowledge the religion of truth. And you continue to call Prophet Jesus PBUH, the son of Allaah (SWT), even though you have been warned of your error. You people must love the Fire!

You claim Allah is God Almighty, yet he will curse the very same people he created because they hold a different religious view-point? So, if you had a son, he grew up and when he was in college, you instructed him to read and become and doctor but instead he choose to be a lawyer - you would curse him?

I find it hard to digest that the Allah can't love the very same people he "created". How am I suppose to relate with Him?

In between, you still haven't told me how many days Allah created the world

lol how do one interpret
this sort of behavior?
Can a god calling you and the
entire non jewish race dog be
done out of love?
This is the simple question, how does
one calling you a dog be out of love?
Or does dog in jewish language means
love? the hypocrisy of christian
minds like alexis's is always a source of
enigma and comedy indeed, they love
to worship a god who clearly labeled
their entire race (every other race in
the world excepting jews) dog,
Lesson, remove the wood in your eyes
before you try removing the speck
from others.

vedaxcool: lol how do one interpret this sort of behavior?

Can a god calling you and the entire non jewish race dog be done out of love?
This is the simple question, how does one calling you a dog be out of love? Or does dog in jewish language means love? the hypocrisy of christian minds like alexis's is always a source of enigma and comedy indeed, they love to worship a god who clearly labeled their entire race (every other race in the world excepting jews) dog,

Lesson, remove the wood in your eyes before you try removing the speck from others.

So your defense to Allah cursing Jews & Christians is to drag Jesus into the picture abi? Sha, the things muslims do to protect Allah. . Allah don suffer ooooooooh!

If indeed Jesus insulted her - why didn't she get offended? Your education stops when you open your Quran and your common sense disappears Cha! Some-people, lol

Time for Bible Education = Had she taken what He said as an insult, as it sounds to you, her faith would have been damaged and her daughter would not have been healed. It is obvious that she understood His reference as nothing more than a metaphor. Jesus calls us his sheep and He is our shepard, DOES THAT MEAN LITERALLY WE ARE SHEEPS.

It amazes me how some-people can't use common sense.

lol how do one interpret this sort of
behavior?
Can a god calling you and the
entire non jewish race dog be done
out of love?
The question in bold remains
unanswered, common sense evidently
remains lacking in the minds of many,
the context of the entire statement
clearly points out the what is
happening, foolish people who cannot
think can never expect any form of
reasoning! Mr. Metaphor if your had any
truthfulness in you would have
explained your metaphor,
Do not cast the bread meant for the
children to the dogs, . . . The woman
desperate for assistance was in no
position to take offense, literally
pampered him by agreeing dogs do eat
the crumbs, was it out of love he called
all non jews dogs? As the word children
refered to the jews and dogs meant non
Jews, I ask does dog means love or does
it mean non jews!
Moral of the story: remove the wood
from your eyes before thinking about
the supposed specks in other people
eyes!

Bismillaah ir Rahmaan ir Rahiim In The Name of Allah, The All Compassionate, The All Merciful. As salaamu alaykum wa rahmatullaahi wa barakaatuh; The peace be upon you, and The Mercy of Allah and HIS Blessings.

What if HE (SWT), did? They were instructed, to believe in Allaah (SWT), the Last Day, to forbid that which Allaah (SWT), has forbidden, by HIS (SWT), messenger, and to acknowledge the religion of truth. And you continue to call Prophet Jesus PBUH, the son of Allaah (SWT), even though you have been warned of your error. You people must love the Fire!

- DevotedOne

You claim Allah is God Almighty, yet he will curse the very same people he created because they hold a different religious view-point? So, if you had a son, he grew up and when he was in college, you instructed him to read and become and doctor but instead he choose to be a lawyer - you would curse him?

I find it hard to digest that the Allah can't love the very same people he "created". How am I suppose to relate with Him?

In between, you still haven't told me how many days Allah created the world

- Alexis


You all seen to have forgotten what you are here for. You didn't come to this world to play games. Awaken, you all!




002.036 فَأَزَلَّهُمَا الشَّيْطَانُ عَنْهَا فَأَخْرَجَهُمَا مِمَّا كَانَا فِيهِ وَقُلْنَا اهْبِطُوا بَعْضُكُمْ لِبَعْضٍ عَدُوٌّ وَلَكُمْ فِي الأرْضِ مُسْتَقَرٌّ وَمَتَاعٌ إِلَى حِينٍ
002.036 Then did Satan make them slip from the (garden), and get them out of the state (of felicity) in which they had been. We said: "Get ye down, all (ye people), with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood - for a time."

002.037 فَتَلَقَّى آدَمُ مِنْ رَبِّهِ كَلِمَاتٍ فَتَابَ عَلَيْهِ إِنَّهُ هُوَ التَّوَّابُ الرَّحِيمُ
002.037 Then learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord Turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.

002.038 قُلْنَا اهْبِطُوا مِنْهَا جَمِيعًا فَإِمَّا يَأْتِيَنَّكُمْ مِنِّي هُدًى فَمَنْ تَبِعَ هُدَايَ فَلا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ
002.038 We said: "Get ye down all from here; and if, as is sure, there comes to you Guidance from me, whosoever follows My guidance, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. Al-Qur'an, 002.036-038 (Al-Baqara [The Cow])


007.024 قَالَ اهْبِطُوا بَعْضُكُمْ لِبَعْضٍ عَدُوٌّ وَلَكُمْ فِي الأرْضِ مُسْتَقَرٌّ وَمَتَاعٌ إِلَى حِينٍ
007.024 (Allah) said: "Get ye down. With enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood,- for a time." Al-Qur'an, 007.024 (Al-Araf [The Heights])


020.123 قَالَ اهْبِطَا مِنْهَا جَمِيعًا بَعْضُكُمْ لِبَعْضٍ عَدُوٌّ فَإِمَّا يَأْتِيَنَّكُمْ مِنِّي هُدًى فَمَنِ اتَّبَعَ هُدَايَ فَلا يَضِلُّ وَلا يَشْقَى
020.123 He said: "Get ye down, both of you,- all together, from the Garden, with enmity one to another: but if, as is sure, there comes to you Guidance from Me, whosoever follows My Guidance, will not lose his way, nor fall into misery. Al-Qur'an, 020.123 (Ta-Ha [Mystic letters Ta-Ha])

Now, what can be clearer than that?


Wassalaam. DevotedOne

vedaxcool

You still didn't answer my question.

Had she taken what He said as an insult, as it sounds to you, her faith would have been damaged and her daughter would not have been healed. It is obvious that she understood His reference as nothing more than a metaphor. Jesus calls us his sheep and He is our shepard, DOES THAT MEAN LITERALLY WE ARE SHEEPS

Christians are Christ sheep and He is our Shepard. Does that Literally mean we are ANIMALS?

Na your Allah vex so much that he placed a CURSE on people because they have a different religious view that he. Here is one of your Hadiths:

Abu Hurairah, may Allah be pleased with him, reported:

Allah's Msessenger (may peace be upon him) said: The last hour will not come until the Muslims fight against the Jews and the muslims will kill then until the jews will hide themselves behind stones and trees. The stones and trees will say: Muslims, the servant of Allah, there is a Jew behind me; come and kill him, but the Gharqad tree will not say this, for it is the tree of the jews.

Na Jesus you wan come drag into the picture and claimed he called a woman dog and as a result, he hates us. Go chop your ogi and akara abeg.

You all seen to have forgotten what you are here for. You didn't come to this world to play games. Awaken, you all!

002.036 فَأَزَلَّهُمَا الشَّيْطَانُ عَنْهَا فَأَخْرَجَهُمَا مِمَّا كَانَا فِيهِ وَقُلْنَا اهْبِطُوا بَعْضُكُمْ لِبَعْضٍ عَدُوٌّ وَلَكُمْ فِي الأرْضِ مُسْتَقَرٌّ وَمَتَاعٌ إِلَى حِينٍ
002.036 Then did Satan make them slip from the (garden), and get them out of the state (of felicity) in which they had been. We said: "Get ye down, all (ye people), with enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood - for a time."

002.037 فَتَلَقَّى آدَمُ مِنْ رَبِّهِ كَلِمَاتٍ فَتَابَ عَلَيْهِ إِنَّهُ هُوَ التَّوَّابُ الرَّحِيمُ
002.037 Then learnt Adam from his Lord words of inspiration, and his Lord Turned towards him; for He is Oft-Returning, Most Merciful.

002.038 قُلْنَا اهْبِطُوا مِنْهَا جَمِيعًا فَإِمَّا يَأْتِيَنَّكُمْ مِنِّي هُدًى فَمَنْ تَبِعَ هُدَايَ فَلا خَوْفٌ عَلَيْهِمْ وَلا هُمْ يَحْزَنُونَ
002.038 We said: "Get ye down all from here; and if, as is sure, there comes to you Guidance from me, whosoever follows My guidance, on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve. Al-Qur'an, 002.036-038 (Al-Baqara [The Cow])


007.024 قَالَ اهْبِطُوا بَعْضُكُمْ لِبَعْضٍ عَدُوٌّ وَلَكُمْ فِي الأرْضِ مُسْتَقَرٌّ وَمَتَاعٌ إِلَى حِينٍ
007.024 (Allah) said: "Get ye down. With enmity between yourselves. On earth will be your dwelling-place and your means of livelihood,- for a time." Al-Qur'an, 007.024 (Al-Araf [The Heights])


020.123 قَالَ اهْبِطَا مِنْهَا جَمِيعًا بَعْضُكُمْ لِبَعْضٍ عَدُوٌّ فَإِمَّا يَأْتِيَنَّكُمْ مِنِّي هُدًى فَمَنِ اتَّبَعَ هُدَايَ فَلا يَضِلُّ وَلا يَشْقَى
020.123 He said: "Get ye down, both of you,- all together, from the Garden, with enmity one to another: but if, as is sure, there comes to you Guidance from Me, whosoever follows My Guidance, will not lose his way, nor fall into misery. Al-Qur'an, 020.123 (Ta-Ha [Mystic letters Ta-Ha])

I don't doubt that that Allah said what you just wrote. However, he quoted and said these as well in the same Quran:

Surah 9:29 = "Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued."

Surah (9:111) = "Allah hath purchased of the believers their persons and their goods; for theirs (in return) is the garden (of Paradise): they fight in His cause, [b]and slay and are slain: a promise binding on Him in truth, through the Law, the Gospel, and the Quran: and who is more faithful to his covenant than Allah? then rejoice in the bargain which ye have concluded: that is the achievement supreme."[/b]. Why is Allah asking people to fight and kill and be killed as well. Aren't we all suppose to be united and live in peace?

Surah (48:29) = "Muhammad is the messenger of Allah. And those with him are hard (ruthless) against the disbelievers and merciful among themselves" = Who are the believers here and who are the disbelievers. Didn't the Quran teach we should all live in peace?

Lol what is wrong with christians like Alexis in NL? So if I call Alexis a fool and does react to it or open any objection to it, it means I did n't call a fool or insult him? Even a rodent with little intellect would question the level of daftness of such reasoning yet again the question in the bold remains unanswered:

vedaxcool:
lol how do one interpret this sort of
behavior?


Can a god calling you and the
entire non jewish race dog be done
out of love?

The question in bold remains
unanswered, common sense evidently
remains lacking in the minds of many,
the context of the entire statement
clearly points out the what is
happening, foolish people who cannot
think can never expect any form of
reasoning! Mr. Metaphor if your had any
truthfulness in you would have
explained your metaphor,
Do not cast the bread meant for the
children to the dogs, . . . The woman
desperate for assistance was in no
position to take offense, literally
pampered him by agreeing dogs do eat
the crumbs, was it out of love he called
all non jews dogs? As the word children
refered to the jews and dogs meant non
Jews, I ask does dog means love or does
it mean non jews!
Moral of the story: remove the wood
from your eyes before thinking about
the supposed specks in other people
eyes!

Yet no explanation for any of his so called metaphors, a dog is a metaphor for a human being wow christian intelligence is really something marvel at!

vexacool

Maybe you are blind or playing pretend, I don't know. If you insist that Jesus calls Christians or Gentiles dogs, that is your delusional inheritance -

Did the author that wrote the book and the verse believe it - certainly not. But you insist Jesus meant we are dogs. Jesus was kind enough to his woman he called a "dog", He must have "hated" her so much because He healed her daughter.

Maybe Allah should have learned a lesson from Jesus, wouldn't you think? Heal people instead of cursing them.

It's amazing because you mention Jesus so much than you mention your own prophet. It's no surprise Jesus is mentioned so many times in your Quran than your own prophet. Allah spoke highly of Jesus but vexacool is smarter than Allah. Vexacool understands the Quran more than Allah

vedaxcool: Lol what is wrong with christians like Alexis in NL? So if I call Alexis a fool and does react to it or open any objection to it, it means I did n't call a fool or insult him? Even a rodent with little intellect would question the level of daftness of such reasoning yet again the question in the bold remains unanswered:





Yet no explanation for any of his so called metaphors, a dog is a metaphor for a human being wow christian intelligence is really something marvel at!

Lol the above was the final push, and we see that where lies are told the truth is victorious, Falsehood has fled truth has arrived!

Oh, one last thing, notice two things atheists and christians have in common:

1) They resort to blasphemy and insults whenever they loose an argument!

2) They tell lies to cover their own failure!


This are sterling qualities of being an NL atheists or christian while they are exceptions to the rule, it seems very much a norm for them! The fact remains why would a "god" someone claims to worship suddenly finds calling his worshipers dogs for no apparent reasons? Isn't that enough reason to turn ones' back on such a god who apparently love his ethnicity so much that he finds calling other tribes and race dogs? Even as a child I detested any god that is ethnocentric talkless of making racist remarks! Funny enough my children thoughts still trumps what many adults can't still figure out! That God transcends ethnicity and jingoism and racism! That is fact!