ghostofsparta:

Either you are lying or Billyonaire has modified his previous post.

He modified his previous post

@Topic: I don't think there is any need for this challenge again since Byllionaire actually believes in the metaphysical. From his last post, it's obvious he only doesn't believe in RM.

I hear. Me I no dey argue spiritual things. The last one I did and will ever do was with Billyoinaire who was deriding Christians and gave the impression that he was an atheist. It was a long one and when I realised that he believed in Supra natural forces, and "humanoids"...whatever that one means. I stopped because it was pointless and but not without pointing out to him that his beliefs were as silly to the rational mind as the ones he was making jest of. I can't invoke God's help in Jesus name... No wahala but as long as I am using that name to ask God for things and he gives me.I don't have problem with you. My faith beleives that I do not need to follow any ritual because the ultimate ritual was done on calvary, your own faith belives you need follow a set procedure...no wahala. That one no cause fight. author=PAGAN 9JA]

you just CANNOT inoke the Gods in jesus name! DONT LIE! IT IS IMPOSSIBLE!

You need a set ritual, mode and context! [/quote]

The Christian scriptures record that Jesus healed a blind man by spitting on mud and rubbing it on his eyes then telling him to go and wash at the pool of Siloam. The Centurion on the other hand told Jesus that he need not follow him to his house before he could restore his daughter to health and he merely needed to speak the word... An amazed Jesus was so impressed and commended him... Pagan man... It is according to your faith ooo. It is the same name of Jesus that Peter used to raise the cripple... You may sneer and call me a fool but when I ask myself what made the timid Peter and company who had hid themselves in fear of the authorities become so brave and willing to face them and be matryed for preaching the gospel, it is me that will laugh at you instead.

^^^^^^My Gods Saarkin ALjinnu!!!!!! when will you xtians learn?

have you seen the above incidents happen. Those are just stories.

are you telling me that someone was following them when these incidents happened and were writing these stories down. impossible.
the only witness to thee made-up stories is jesus, so he wrote them.

jesus never raised any cripple. if anything, his religion made many cripples.

he was martyred for spreading incite and revolt. The ROmans were Pagans, yet they sided with the Jewish SArheddin to execute him, becuase they both knew that he was dangerous to peace and civility. and they were right werent they? you saw the damage that jesus' religion caused to the Roman Empire and the stable government.


and wth is calvary

I do believe in Supernatural and supra-natural phenomena, but just as there are many scams on a social level, the native doctors cash in on the ignorant masses to LIE about MONEY RITUALS and many people have lost their lives to these deceipts occasioned by the gullible who believe that they can have corpse vomiting hard currencies for them. It is a fat LIE; If MONEY RITUAL existed, Nigeria would have produced over 5,000,000 billionaires in dollars with thousands of corpses vomiting dollars from the cupboard. MONEY RITUALS is a SCAM, and the victims are always the innocents who get killed for body parts and the SCAM mule who is separated from his cash with a fearful injunction that if he tells anyone, he will die.

ghostofsparta: UPDATED 8:50am
UPDATED are highlighted in BLUE COLOUR

Dear Nairalanders,

I hereby challenge a prominent disbeliever of African/Yoruba supernatural magic, on Nairaland by the username: Billyonaire, to bet an agreed amount as a leverage for the demonstrative proof of supernatural magic/juju where an agreed upon observation and video coverage would be provided to monitor the following claim:

A motor vehicle will be shown to be working and moving by being tested by by a driver he himself will provide and after, which interior will be placed with a particular juju wherein the provided driver will be asked again to drive the same motor vehicle. Efficacy of the juju is confirmed if the driver is unable to start the car, wherein the amount bet is mine. If the driver is able to start the vehicle with the juju inside, then he wins the argument that the believe in Juju or supernatural magic is deliberately deceptive.

This Juju test will be videoed and uploaded on YouTube for all to watch.

I don't need to be there but the JUJU which I will put inside an empty Ribena container will be tagged with an identity number whose image will be posted here for all to see before sending to the location given by Billyonaire or any who will accept my challenge for the verification of this JUJU test. The purpose of this is to measure is for both party to maintain anonymity yet making sure no one can argue that I somehow managed to manipulate the outcome to my advantage as Omonuan presumes below

.

This challenge is open to anyone, skeptics, scientists, rationalists, atheists and religionists here on Nairaland.

I will come back to address the rest of Omonuan's questions, I like him.

Happy Sunday folks!
GhostOfSparta

Please I am waiting for the result of the challenge. This is more or less an attempt to verify scientifically the efficacy of juju.

Juju man wey no even know anytin about the electromechanics of an automobile (which scientists and engineers took many many years to develop) wan come use jazz interfere with automobile operation. This sounds so ridiculous.

Our oyinbo people are busy breaking new ground in medical and scientific research... new drugs and new technology are being made available to the world saving countless lives here in Naija. Naija peeps still dey believe juju nonsense and BM.

How as your belief in juju and BM benefited the socio-economic development of our beloved Naija?? Let us focus our attention on relevant things.

JUJU FIT STOP MOTO FROM STARTING!!?? I DEY LAFF...

ABEG OP, SHEY E FIT STOP LAMBORGHINI AVENTADOR? I GET ONE... BRING THE JUJU MAKE I TEST AM

PalmTree:

Your post is quite admirable, yet I believe that you, billiyonaire and a host of other people who have contested the OP's claims and have aimed to debunk the yoruba advanced sciences should not be "scared" of taking up this challenge. Forget about the what the Yoruba juju men cannot do! However if you decide not to take up the challenge, let's all wait for he in who name this thread was opened. Secondly, whatever stops a brand new car from starting is obviously a factory fault. You should probably read the OP again, he will only "jujulize" the car after billiyonaire or his mech has certified the car OK. That to me should proof something... Don't try to rubbish this, take up the challenge or look on.

Why is it that the so called "Yoruba advanced sciences" have no empirical proof other than rantings and threats of death if you demand proof? I am one of those few Nigerians that is not scared of voodoo. I recognized early in life that the only thing between me and success is fear. So I accepted U.S. president FDR's theory that the " biggest thing man has to fear is fear itself." It is fear that has kept Nigerians in darkness,

Now back to my demand of proof. Ghostsparta is a fervent believer of the "Yoruba advanced sciences" and knows his onions in these realm. I have mutual admiration for him because he makes his points without insults. All I ask of him is empirical proof and I'll be cool. He needs to tell me if he has seen MR work and provide a video of it as ATM. Then I would like a video demonstration of "jujujized?" car. If he does these, I will doff my hat for him and become a believer in "Yoruba advanced sciences."

Edited.

Slankey:

People like you are just so prominent on the social network with your cacophony, but otherwise, you are hardly noticed. Suck it up lad, and take your position.

Yon don't know me dude so your conclusion is baseless. Check my footprint here, I don't crave attention any where much less social network. I am a logical person in all its ramifications. No need to be abusive, you and your acolytes should provide empirical proofs of your "Yoruba advanced sciences." And while you are at it with the advanced sciences how come the Yoruba were almost exterminated by slave trade? Entire Yoruba towns were carted off into slavery with Dane guns.

No tribal animus is intended here because same questions would be posed to any African tribe that claims to be advanced. Africans were sold for not forty, not hundred but for 400 years during trans Atlantic slave trade. Prior to this time, Arabs had sold Africans for 1000 years.

Even the Fulani brought the Yoruba down with their rag tag army and succeeded in seizing Ilorin from the Yoruba and as advanced as the Yoruba sciences purportedly is nothing could be done to Mallam Alimi and his ilk. Alimi could have been knocked down by remote as someone suggested that Gostsparta should do to Billionaire such that Alimi would have fallen down seven times without seeing the hands that punched him. It would have been hilarious and Ilorin would have been saved with "Yoruba advanced sciences."

Edited.

saintvalx:

Your trip to google was worth it but even now in 2013, it still wont take much for one powerful developed country to ravage the entire Africa.

True! No African tribe should be mentioned in the same sentence with "advanced sciences."

nanizle:

Please I am waiting for the result of the challenge. This is more or less an attempt to verify scientifically the efficacy of juju.

Juju man wey no even know anytin about the electromechanics of an automobile (which scientists and engineers took many many years to develop) wan come use jazz interfere with automobile operation. This sounds so ridiculous.

Our oyinbo people are busy breaking new ground in medical and scientific research... new drugs and new technology are being made available to the world saving countless lives here in Naija. Naija peeps still dey believe juju nonsense and BM.

How as your belief in juju and BM benefited the socio-economic development of our beloved Naija?? Let us focus our attention on relevant things.

JUJU FIT STOP MOTO FROM STARTING!!?? I DEY LAFF...

ABEG OP, SHEY E FIT STOP LAMBORGHINI AVENTADOR? I GET ONE... BRING THE JUJU MAKE I TEST AM

Why don't you just take up the challenge and save yourself all this stress?

saintvalx:

You dont believe something doesn't mean it does not exist. MR is not something thats conducted on every streets of Naija. You'll only find the REAL practitioners in remote villages. Who is the idiot that will come out to flaunt his wealth and flagrantly give u the impression that he's into ritual money making.

People dont believe its possible to make rain calm or pour down in torrents but I do.

Ask anyone who has lived in Benin City if he/she's heard of the story of a little boy who can command a flying bird to descend and perch on his palm. The boy was invited by the present Oba of Benin and he's living in the palace till date. How can that be proved scientifically?

Are u interested in MR? If not then stop doubting, man. Beat it

The bolded is an indication of how hilarious your opinion is. Are you telling me that Money Ritualist billionaires live in remote villages instead of the affluent metropolitan Cities where banks exist for them to put their billions ? That they chose to hide in villages in their 20 Stories Sky-crappers and drive their Phantom Rolls Royce and private jets in the villages ? Please do not mix-up issues. Proof that ritual money exist and cease the story telling of hear-say, hear-say!

Edited.

Billyonaire:
The bolded is an indication of how hilarious your opinion is. Are you telling me that Money Ritualist billionaires live in remote villages instead of the affluent metropolitan Cities where banks exist for them to put their billions ? That they chose to hide in villages in their 20 Stories Sky-crappers and drive their Phantom Rolls Royce and private jets in the villages ? Please do not mix-up issues. Proof that ritual money exist and cease the story telling of hear-say, hear-say!

you are the only person I see with complete mystical knowledge on this forum. Great mystics do not believe anything unless proven to be so and none of them av been able to prove it. They should be talking of Alchemy instead of this MR.

PalmTree:

Why don't you just take up the challenge and save yourself all this stress?

YES I CAN. WHOEVER HAS THE SAID JUJU SHOULD MAKE IT AVAILABLE FOR TESTING. I AM READY.

[size=13pt]Billionare, I know you are uber-ignorant. Its written all over your posts.

There is an yoruba adage that says 'T'omode ba de'bi t'oogun, eeru a baa' Which means When a small child experiences real mystic powers, he'll shudder.

I pray that you accept this challenge. I will personally throw a party after the outcome.

You better keep your crap in your skull.

Damn, its like saying the Masquerade traditions of African cultures are just for fun. Try my town, and follow masquerade anyhow with your iPhone 4 (to snap for your research) and let the masquerade hailers trash you. Your life will never remain the same.

Its so evident you don't have a job. If you do, you wouldn't spend 95 percent of all your time on Nairaland, replying post and spewing fuckery all over the place. If you had a job, you wouldn't accept the challenge.[/size]

I believe there are basically two techniques used in explaining the existence, fundamental nature or essence of beings, entities, energies, phenomena e.t.c. They are Rationality and Empiricism. These two techniques have their individual limitations. Empiricism is limited to the realm of matter. The spiritual or ethereal realm is not composed of ''matter as we know it''. Thus, it's difficult (if not impossible) to provide an empirical proof of a mystical process (which those invoking such process don't even know why or how such process achieves what it achieves) which takes place in the spiritual or ethereal realm. So for those asking for empirical proof of the existence or potency of ethereal entities, beings, forces or energies, you may never get it until matter is re-defined or other human senses are evolved or developed to detect, observe, describe and analyse such beings etc.

PAGAN 9JA:
^^^^^^My Gods Saarkin ALjinnu!!!!!! when will you xtians learn?

have you seen the above incidents happen. Those are just stories.

are you telling me that someone was following them when these incidents happened and were writing these stories down. impossible.
the only witness to thee made-up stories is jesus, so he wrote them.

jesus never raised any cripple. if anything, his religion made many cripples.

he was martyred for spreading incite and revolt. The ROmans were Pagans, yet they sided with the Jewish SArheddin to execute him, becuase they both knew that he was dangerous to peace and civility. and they were right werent they? you saw the damage that jesus' religion caused to the Roman Empire and the stable government.


and wth is calvary

just reading your post now at 6:42 pm. I've been in church all day enjoying myself in God's precense. You say Jesus wrote the gospels himself..hmmm. Let's leave that aside. You want me to believe your Yoruba traditional story that Oya and Osun both " woman beings" became rivers after their death. Or that the world was really created by Obatala who came down from heaven on a long Chain with a hen and sand... This attitude of yours of deriding other peoples beliefs is the cause of strife in the entire world. Can't you people just respect other beliefs the way that you want them to do yours ? That you are able to read and write today and type all you have been remotely or directly related to the Christian missionaries who built schools wherever they went... I am a rational person who asks rational questions about my belief systems and I stress one thing ...they work for me and I have seen too much miracles in my years on earth years as a Christian for somebody to come and tell me that bull shit.I do not serve a mere force, I worship Jehovah and his Son who came in flesh as Jesus Christ so as to shed his blood once and for all instead of annual atonement done by the jews thereby reconciling me to the father because without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin.. You may need it to be doing rituals but I do not to need to all I need is to make my requests known to God and take necessary actions to actualise my goals. He has never failed me. For now I am done with this thread and will not comment on anything again. If una like make una kill una sef with juju na una wahala be that... ATR aint appealing to modern man. Adjust to that reality.

otipoju: just reading your post now at 6:42 pm. I've been in church all day enjoying myself in God's precense. You say Jesus wrote the gospels himself..hmmm. Let's leave that aside. You want me to believe your Yoruba traditional story that Oya and Osun both " woman beings" became rivers after their death. Or that the world was really created by Obatala who came down from heaven on a long Chain with a hen and sand... This attitude of yours of deriding other peoples beliefs is the cause of strife in the entire world. Can't you people just respect other beliefs the way that you want them to do yours ? That you are able to read and write today and type all you have been remotely or directly related to the Christian missionaries who built schools wherever they went... I am a rational person who asks rational questions about my belief systems and I stress one thing ...they work for me and I have seen too much miracles in my years on earth years as a Christian for somebody to come and tell me that bull shit.I do not serve a mere force, I worship Jehovah and his Son who came in flesh as Jesus Christ so as to shed his blood once and for all instead of annual atonement done by the jews thereby reconciling me to the father because without the shedding of blood there is no remission of sin.. You may need it to be doing rituals but I do not to need to all I need is to make my requests known to God and take necessary actions to actualise my goals. He has never failed me. For now I am done with this thread and will not comment on anything again. If una like make una kill una sef with juju na una wahala be that... ATR aint appealing to modern man. Adjust to that reality.

Guy gimmie ur mail na.....na wao

otipoju: ATR aint appealing to modern man. Adjust to that reality.

ATR is a wide concept. Juju is just a part of ATRs. go to hell when TRs are emerging in other countries, I dont see why it shouldnt emerge in "modern" Nigeria.

nanizle:


YES I CAN. WHOEVER HAS THE SAID JUJU SHOULD MAKE IT AVAILABLE FOR TESTING. I AM READY.

You haven't been following this thread right? Did you even read the OP at all? Anyways ghostofsparta claims to have such juju so tell him.
Dear ghostofsparta and other readers, we have a match! nanizle has taken up the challenge, he has contested the op's claims... Game on!

PAGAN-- your ATR ca not appeal to me as long as it still contains belief that requires a kings servants to die along with him so that he will have people to carry his belongings on his journey to ajule orun, or still believe that twins are evil and should be killed. Or that requires strangers in a community to be used as sacrifice when a prominent chief dies. A belief system based on fear and that does not believe in the equality of all men. If I say respect your beliefs, what I actually mean is that I respect your right as a person to have them and not that it appeals to me in any manner... If you hate mine that is your problem,I am too engrossed in mine and enjoying it to have time to be debasing another man's archaic religion. If christianity did not carry education on its back when coming to africa, you would still be eating pounded yam out of leafs and cooking with firewood like our ancestors.

otipoju: PAGAN-- your ATR ca not appeal to me as long as it still contains belief that requires a kings servants to die along with him so that he will have people to carry his belongings on his journey to ajule orun, or still believe that twins are evil and should be killed. Or that requires strangers in a community to be used as sacrifice when a prominent chief dies. A belief system based on fear and that does not believe in the equality of all men. If I say respect your beliefs, what I actually mean is that I respect your right as a person to have them and not that it appeals to me in any manner... If you hate mine that is your problem,I am too engrossed in mine and enjoying it to have time to be debasing another man's archaic religion. If christianity did not carry education on its back when coming to africa, you would still be eating pounded yam out of leafs and cooking with firewood like our ancestors.

otipolu, which King does that? also that is more of a Cultural , than a religious aspect. and many a times, it is the servants who did it out of loyalty to their King. for exampe, in the Malay Archipelagos, in the past, a lineage of servants for the local Rajah (King) used to sacrifice themselves to their King voluntairly, out of intense Love for the Ruling family. They used to give an elaborate speech about so and so, and why they do it. This is from the explorer Ibn Batutah's narrative.

no one believes twins are evil. If anything, Yorubas love and adore twins to the point that they have Ibeji idols dedicated to them, since twins represent the sublime balance of forces. Also Yoruba twins used to be pampered a lot in the past and they were respected.

the only ppl who 'suposedly' killed twins at (childbirth) - the baby is not yet fully developed at this stage to think or make decisions., were the Kalabaris. THe mother gave birth and has every right to do with the infant as she pleases. Even animals eat their young sometimes after delivery. again this might just be rumours spread by that missionary women who worked among them. and again , what is the chance of getting a twin? 1 in a million? *smh

also such customs can be done away with or modified, since Paganism is an evolving and dynamic religious concept and is very vast. This is shown in the advancement of Greek , Yoruba, Hindu, etc., Religions compared to neighbouring faiths, with civilization.

doesnt christianity thrive on fear as well infact christianity not only thrives on fear,but also on blackmail, and force.

as for equality of men, I agree. Paganism does not propagate equality of men. Look around you and tell me. are all men equal? the bible is as usual , feeding lies and what people want to hear.


btw whats wrong with pounding yam and eating from leaves? We used to lead less complicated lives and had less troubles, though we had less amenities. everything has its ups and downs. The apparent change has not made any real significance in the balance between the two.

and btw dont think us Pagans uneducated. The entire concepts in your Maths textbook, was mostly complied by Pagans or initiated by Pagans, so there.

and for Yorubas, though the progress was not as drastic as the industrially revolutionized europe, there is no doubt that there was still progress taking place in the City-states.

Okay I hear

Once in class when we were treating the Synoptic gospels, I asked my Prof. What will become the lot of those who never heard about Jesus in various parts of the world or had lived on earth before his birth and death. He quoted first from the aprocryphal Book of Thomas and said "each generation shall be judged according to the light shown to them"...and then fromm the Christian scriptures saying" who are you to judge another man's servant?" He then reminded us of the story of General Cornilueos the Roman pagan whom the semitic Jehovah was pleased with his daily conduct and had appeared to in a dream in the Book of Acts of the Apostles. Time and time I have ruminated on the far reaching implication of these words and so it has influenced my current attitude of tolerating other peoples faith in the pluralistic world that we now live in. Just to let you know the sort of person that I am. I don hide from the truth... When a nigerian keeps ringing it in my ears that he is a christian, I start to be careful around him, they are the sorts that will commit all sorts of vices without bathing an eyelid. I have also noticed that even though Christianity appears to be thriving in Nigeria,church goers may be many real christians are few this is what has emboldened pagans like you to begin to deride the religion... Because its adherents are a far cry from the ideal. In church yo have to be careful with your belongings because if you close your christian brother or sister will steal it, if you leave fine shoe for mosque doorstep on a Jumat you are on your own. With the proliferation of churches and mosques everywhere, there is an abysymal level of corruption. By their fruits you shall know them and even Christ says that not everyone who calls me Lord will enter my kingdom. Christian faith has its unanswered questions and seeming contradictions and even admits that it is foolishness to the rational man, nothwithstanding let no man come here and tell me that his religion is perfect and has all the answers to existential questions. NO NO NO. Is it hinduism that believes that the world is upheld buy an elephant or islam that says we can use dirty sand to purify our organs if there is no water when we pee,or bhuddism that believes in endless cycled of rebirt until the attainment of an unattainable Nirvana puts an end to it.? NO RELIGIOUS BELIEF HAS THE RIGHT TO CONDEM ANOTHER AS BASELESS OR SILLY and I strongly advise you guys to stop it. If the semitic Jehovah appeals to me in this global village so be it, if the pantheon of divinities, and diefied ancestors of our fathers appeal to you..good for you. Give me any belief system and I like Socrates I will ridicule its myths and structure with my rational mind but I have experienced enough to have faith in the invisible Supreme being the source to whom all mortals will return to when their breathe ceases.

^^^All of that is well and good. It seems that you xtians are finally softening and changing due to our Pagans/atheists combined efforts to "deride" you and make you see sense.

As to appealing for us to stop exposing your religion and/or mocking it Im sorry we cannot. you may mean well, but you are not the entire 2 billion + xtians population.
you have lost the moral right to do so. christianity has caused the death, r.ape and massacre of Billions of my Pagan brothers and sisters and has brought about the extinction of many tribes and many nations to their knees. for these acts, you will pay.
Unless you xtians agree to recompens, pay us money to rebuild our shrines, idols, etc., and pay for damage, we will agree. THen you can preach again on fair terms and not by gunpoint as before. if you gain converts , then they are rightfully yours.

Until then, its a no no. fellow Atheists/Pagans, good job. The battle is on.

When I was in 200 level we were joined by about 10 direct entry students who were elderly and were confirmed priests of old generation Churches sadly some of them regurlaly cheat during exams and I kept wondering what sort of message they would be passing to their congregation when they mounted the pulpit on sunday?... You might think I am giving you more ammo to fire with... Na u sabi.but as to deriding Christianity, its a battle you can't win... Go and read church history centuries of persecutions and burnings of bibles has not. It is being propelled by a force graeter than any other. Apart from the Spanish inquisition and crusades by the Roman Catholic Church,in an era where bible reading was restricted to the few clergy and was inaccesible to the ignorant laity, I would be glad if you can show me in the last 50 years where christianity has forcefully won converts.The bible contains life inspiring words like- do not be afraid, fear not I am with you,ask and it will be given unto you, be kind to others and be meek etc etc. It is the words that converts people not guns. You said something that culture is seperate from religion... Ill just advice that you do more research on both topics because to the best of my knowledge, culture is a prevailing pattern of customs,manners and behaviour of a people over a period of time arising from their conception of the world gotten from religious beliefs. Catch your fun in poking fun at christianity but shit, and plenty shirt na im full ATR body...remember one excursion at Oni of Ife's palace when our guide dey show us one tiny hole on a mound wey one diefied ancestor follow enter go the world beyond... Boys no fit laugh out loud nau. Abi the one wey dem tell us sey it is good for insane people to dey roam the streets because it ensures that there is peace in the land. Abegi,no come dey promote ATR for where I dey joor. Tolerance is the key to a peaceful society.

Why the talking, let the action begin!

Getting ready to download the video.

@otipoju
I sincerely do not like the way you and your likes attempts to derail my thread, please create a new thread elsewhere and post whatever understanding of Christianity you feel readers should have knowledge of, NOT HERE.

You don't see me, Pagan9JA or any atheist posting derailful comments on Christian and Muslim thread/topics. We separately create ours to seek discussion, point-making opinions and arguments from others. We don't storm your abrahamic religion threads like trolls bent on changing the intended course of a given topic.

I beg you to stop it and would appreciate it if you remove them by replacing them with the dash (-) symbol using the 'modify' button.

Thanks.

nanizle:
YES I CAN. WHOEVER HAS THE SAID JUJU SHOULD MAKE IT AVAILABLE FOR TESTING. I AM READY.

I take it you're serious.

Therefore, as it should be, everything henceforth is posted here on this thread to show transparency to the observing readers.

Before I can post what I think can be termed a DoU: 'Declaration of Unfamiliarity', which you will also need do, based on my format. Do please, state the amount you are wlling to stake, and we will proceed from there.

GhostOfSparta

Patiently waiting for the challenge to kick off.

good job Ghostofsparta. I am with you and I trust you my brother.

I await the experiment . .