We are often used to discussing media and political personalities who have a flawless command of spoken English.

But this is hardly discussed in terms of Nigerian languages such as Igbo, Hausa, Yoruba, Efik and so forth.

Does being articulate and well spoken in an indigenous language exist? How can you tell?

I think one pointer could be how well a speaker can converse without using borrowed words or English. Of course grammar and flow are also important.

But there is definitely more. Any others?

Which personality was well known for his/her oratory or speaking skills in any Nigerian Language?

It does it Hausa... but for most of the other languages, i don't think so.

They have broken down to the point were it is practically immpossible to find someone who is a "master" of the language. For example; my mother is a native efick speaker but she never learned the Efik words for blue, green, orange or yellow, as they had been using the English version of these concepts since primary school.

The only people who use can their native language for all the concepts they know are usually stark illiterate and/or very old. The fact that they are uneducated makes language mastery impossible because that cannot truly be done without knowlege of writing.

And native languages are not intensivly taught in schools

pleep: The only people who use can their native language for all the concepts they know are usually stark illiterate and/or very old. The fact that they are uneducated makes language mastery impossible because that cannot truly be done without knowlege of writing.

That seems unlikely. It's too broad a generalization since there are Yoruba newspapers, radio shows, movies and so on (even novels, though they're less common now) that assume and maintain fluency in the language. There are also university courses in Yoruba that go beyond teaching the functional vocabulary people might learn at home and go deeper into poetry, interpretstion etc.That's the example I'm most familiar with but I wouldn't be surprised if there are others in Nigeria.

TerraCotta:

That seems unlikely. It's too broad a generalization since there are Yoruba newspapers, radio shows, movies and so on (even novels, though they're less common now) that assume and maintain fluency in the language. There are also university courses in Yoruba that go beyond teaching the functional vocabulary people might learn at home and go deeper into poetry, interpretstion etc.That's the example I'm most familiar with but I wouldn't be surprised if there are others in Nigeria.

I didnt know that about Yoruba

I'm mainly speaking from the point of veiw of the nigerian languages im familiar with, which i barely hear people speak without interjecting English words.

Essentially what i think enables fluency in a language is a standardized schooling program for it, as you mentioned we have that for Yourba and Hausa, but not for most of the other languages.

You should replace your illiterate with :" didnt went through English/Western school"

^ or "education'

I understand what you mean, but in the context "illiterate" means unable to read or write in any language

I think in Nigeria the northerners are the only group who can be technically litterate, without western education

cuz most of them learn arabic

Its usually diasporans who havent spent much time in nigeria, who would ask this type of question.

TerraCotta:

That seems unlikely. It's too broad a generalization since there are Yoruba newspapers, radio shows, movies and so on (even novels, though they're less common now) that assume and maintain fluency in the language. There are also university courses in Yoruba that go beyond teaching the functional vocabulary people might learn at home and go deeper into poetry, interpretstion etc.
That's the example I'm most familiar with but I wouldn't be surprised if there are others in Nigeria.

Thank you.I think its the same for the igbo language too but dunno about Hausa and other tribes/ethnic languages.

As for articulate ones,you probably cannot identify them except you understand the language but i know certainly there a quite a number of yoruba speakers who don't adulterate the language when speaking it.
A good example is the crop of actors and actresses that make up MAINFRAME movies made in Yoruba language.Rich,deep Yoruba is what they speak not considering a few borrowed words that have been adopted into the language.

pleep: It does it Hausa... but for most of the other languages, i don't think so.

I might appear so, but I won't immediately assume this. Why? Because most Hausas are highly islamized. Who is to say what they are speaking are not borrowed Arabic words? Our naira notes even have arabic inscriptions. It's even hard to separate the Northern culture from Islam to an outsider. Most of the time they reference God as Allah, you hardly hear them use Ubangidi.

pleep: I think in Nigeria the northerners are the only group who can be technically litterate, without western education

cuz most of them learn arabic

How does learning arabic correlate being literate in relation to learning Igbo, Hausa or Yoruba? And is Arabic a Nigerian language? Why do you make it seem like a plus for Northerners because they learn it and don't have to learn English. Aren't they both foreign languages?

@OP
It's very difficult determining the fluency in our local languages because our languages have been corrupted by external forces. And we also often use the fact that an English word exist in our language to determine that it's complete.

^ Wow your right.

I was thinking they used Hausa language with Arabic alphabet. thanks 4 the correction

pleep: It does it Hausa... but for most of the other languages, i don't think so.

They have broken down to the point were it is practically immpossible to find someone who is a "master" of the language. For example; my mother is a native efick speaker but she never learned the Efik words for blue, green, orange or yellow, as they had been using the English version of these concepts since primary school.

The only people who use can their native language for all the concepts they know are usually stark illiterate and/or very old. The fact that they are uneducated makes language mastery impossible because that cannot truly be done without knowlege of writing.

I'm sure there are enough people who can speak Efik without using any unnecessary English words. Most of the times people do it because they are lazy and because English has a lot of influence in their lives.

For Igbo I know I have heard and seen many, including on TV, who can speak Igbo like it was 1915, and I would say they sounded eloquent. The man speaking on TV was actually abroad and he was in his 40s so it isn't always old and/or stark illiterate that can speak Nigerian languages best. For example Igbo movies have come back [See here] and they're doing a good job of filtering out as much English as they can, 70% of the casts of these films are under 40.

You don't need writing to master a language especially when language in general was developed well before writing.

This 'traditional movie' done in Igbo does not contain one English word.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RZIMatM6wU4

At 3:40 in that video, lol. ^^^


Reminds me of another thread in this section.

The only people who use can their native language for all the concepts they know are usually stark illiterate and/or very old. The fact that they are uneducated makes language mastery impossible because that cannot truly be done without knowlege of writing.

This isn't true. Western education doesn't necessarily mean that one must lose command of his language, and at the same time, I don't see the correlation between education and fluency of a [spoken] language.

I know people who speak Igbo and Efik without foreign admixture. I'm capable of expressing concepts and ideas in my native language (Igbo) without the use of English, despite being educated in the West.

What about concepts like "possibility" "estimate" or "calculate?

There are just going to be some concepts that cannot be expressed in a language that is still in same the form it had before modernization. African language have a miniscule amount of words (concepts) when compared to languages like english

nnenna.1:
We are often used to discussing media and political personalities who have a flawless command of spoken English.

But this is hardly discussed in terms of Nigerian languages such as Igbo, Hausa, Yoruba, Efik and so forth.

Does being articulate and well spoken in an indigenous language exist? How can you tell?

I think one pointer could be how well a speaker can converse without using borrowed words or English. Of course grammar and flow are also important.

But there is definitely more. Any others?

Which personality was well known for his/her oratory or speaking skills in any Nigerian Language?

Late Dim Chukwuemeka Odumegwu Ojukwu was known for his excellent command of several Nigerian languages namely: Igbo, Yoruba, and Hausa. Other political figures are also known polyglots.

When conversing with someone in Igbo, the ways that I usually gauge whether or not they are a native speaker or a learner-in-progress is by their understanding of idioms and proverbs and their use of intonation and nasalization.

pleep: What about concepts like "possibility" "estimate" or "calculate?

There are just going to be some concepts that cannot be expressed in a language that is still in same the form it had before modernization. African language have a miniscule amount of words (concepts) when compared to languages like english

I think English is a canvass of massively borrowed and newly invented words.

There are words in existence today that didn't exist twenty years ago. Probably half the English words we know now weren't in existence 500 years ago.

English seems so complex because humanity's exploits in science, philosophy, math, and other high-level pursuits are anglo-centric.

Any language with that kind of sustenance will be just as nuanced.

Given globalization and the legacy of the British/American Empire I don't see the language being toppled from its number one spot for a long, long time.

If the propaganda of ancient Rome had any atom of truth, I'd say that English was once a very primitive and basic language.

It's different today because of the above factors, which I listed.

Africans can turn things around if they wanted to, provided that concerted efforts were made towards standardizing an indigenous language, new concepts were worded, taught and explored in these languages, and so forth.

odumchi:

Late Dim Chukwuemeka Odumegwu Ojukwu was known for his excellent command of several Nigerian languages namely: Igbo, Yoruba, and Hausa. Other political figures are also known polyglots.

When conversing with someone in Igbo, the ways that I usually gauge whether or not they are a native speaker or a learner-in-progress is by their understanding of idioms and proverbs and their use of intonation and nasalization.

Would you say that being a native speaker is the same as being a masterful speaker?

The difference is clear-cut for many of the Romance languages.

I really mean speaking in a way that differentiates one intellectually from the rest. Does this exist in a native Nigerian language?

nnenna.1:


Would you say that being a native speaker is the same as being a masterful speaker?

The difference is clear-cut for many of the Romance languages.

I really mean speaking in a way that differentiates one intellectually from the rest. Does this exist in a native Nigerian language?

Yes it does.

Throughout history there have been prestigious dialects which were usually from a more successful region or an administrative centre of the language region (like a capital). The reason why it seems like European or Romance languages have it clear-cut is because the prestigious dialects (usually of the capital) have become the standard dialect and intellectual standard of those language speakers, so that anything that deviates from it may be perceived as uneducated. 'Proper English' in Britain and for former non-white colonies (meaning those that did not officiate their own kind of standard English) is based on the central London dialect. 'Proper' or Standard French is based on the Parisienne dialect, Italian on Rome, Spanish on Madrid, Chinese on Beijing, and so on.

Among Nigerian languages there are dialects that are considered backward or spoken by the least educated. Among Igbo for example, (although this may be controversial) the northern dialects (specifically Onicha-Nri-Oka) are seen as more prestigious and is usually spoken as the true standard Igbo (even though the manufactured one is woven from southern dialects) and is the dialect which most non-Igbo speakers are familiar with. There are Igbo dialects that are considered backward or archaic by many, but I won't say which one. A big clue would be to look at the Igbo states with the worst poverty rates.

The film I posted earlier was done in 'Anambra' Igbo (even though there is a 'Standard Igbo').

Mind you, in the past, the dialect spoken in Arochukwu may have been seen as prestigious among southern Igbo groups since they controlled the oracle and yielded much power of Igboland after the 1600s and till 1900. My guess is that Ibibio, which was the second language of Arochukwu and which the Aro spread around southern Igboland, may have been the language of 'education' since till this day it is the language of the Ekpe society found in southern Igbo land. Ekpe was once the ultimate judicial organisation and they also spread the knowledge of nsibidi, symbols that could have developed into full writing.

Nri-Oka dialects have become prestigious for many reasons including economic success, European interaction (some of the first missionary intrusions contacts and establishments were done through Onitsha), population, traditional stratification, and age of settlement (Nri-Oka settlements are usually older than most of Igboland in the south, west, and at its fringes).

In many parts of Igboland people are complaining about the disappearance of their dialects (and culture) in favour of Onitsha-Nri-Oka dialects, especially among people who work in those communities. This is similar to the way American English is starting to influence the English-speaking word because of their economic power, but for historical reasons (the British Empire) London British English (Received Pronunciation) is still seen as the dialect of the educated ones.

You may also notice that the Yoruba known to non-Yoruba speakers is usually based on the Ibadan/Oyo dialects (no surprise since the former Oyo empire dominated most of the Yoruba), Ibibio on Uyo, and Efik on Calabar. Efik and Ibibio are both thought to be dialects of one language, although the Efik have historically seen themselves as more educated and 'civilised'. I don't know much about Hausa-Fulani politics, but I can guess that the prestigious dialect of Hausa is based on the type spoken by the Sultans and probably has a whole load of Arabic and Fula influence.

Just like in any language, being a native speaker doesn't necessarily mean you have a very large vocabulary. In the olden days the people who had a high vocabulary in Igboland were Dibia or priests and probably ndi mgbere (traders) because their professions required it and they were the most 'exposed'. The person I mentioned in another post that could speak Igbo well has a higher vocabulary than an average Igbo-speaking person who has lived in the countryside all their lives (and I'm suspecting he's at least connected to traditionalism or the dibia arts in some way).