solidbroda: If heaven/ hell truly exist, [size=18pt]I want[/size] God to appear and tell us. Or jesus [size=18pt]should[/size] appear to everyone and tell us.

solidbroda: If heaven/ hell truly exist, I want God to appear and tell us. Or jesus should appear to everyone and tell us. When Paul( then saul) was on his was to Damascus, he had the privilege to see Jesus one on one. Not in a dream, or vision or some rachet pastors telling him what Jesus said, but Jesus was real according to the bible. So, if God loves us like he claimed, and doesn't want everybody to go to hell, let everybody see him, or at least 7 of his best angels. No more confusion about this or that.
However, no heaven no hell as far as I know.

*Kails*:
who knows?

FOLYKAZE: Yes it exist....only in the mind of people that believe in it

solidbroda: If heaven/ hell truly exist, I want God to appear and tell us. Or jesus should appear to everyone and tell us. When Paul( then saul) was on his was to Damascus, he had the privilege to see Jesus one on one. Not in a dream, or vision or some rachet pastors telling him what Jesus said, but Jesus was real according to the bible. So, if God loves us like he claimed, and doesn't want everybody to go to hell, let everybody see him, or at least 7 of his best angels. No more confusion about this or that.
However, no heaven no hell as far as I know.

peteregwu:

Do u have a biological parents? To me, i dont think you have..so long the whole world cant see your parent, then u dont have.

darasam4u: Stephen was sure of where he was going when he uttered his last words: “Lord Jesus, receive my spirit”. Paul had no doubt at the time of his departure; “I have fought a good fight, I have finished my course, I have kept the faith: henceforth there is laid up for me a crown of righteousness”. Stephen saw a vision of God and Jesus Christ and fell asleep. Jacob and David prophesied and blessed their children in their dying hours and died peacefully.
Blessed hope! Wonderful departing!

And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. Rev 20:14

Faith is a journey and as such the point from which one sets out is not the place to which one arrives. What I now believe and understand concerning the gospel and the nature and character of God, is not what I believed when I was a spiritual babe. That’s not to say all I believed was wrong, but truth has a way of undoing our carnal preconceptions. As followers of the way, our lives will always exemplify a sense of this journey, of moving from the darkness of this present world, toward the light of a heavenly kingdom.

In all fairness to myself and many who might read this post, as spiritual babes we are not well acquainted with righteousness. Paul alludes to this when he speaks of the need to move from milk to meat, from carnality to righteousness.

Each and every one of us are brought into the kingdom as carnal creatures of the flesh. We may be counted amongst the brethren, and we may be called with a holy calling, but we remain creatures of the flesh until that seed of His Spirit begins to bring forth life in this mortal body of death.

The way, or the faith, is a journey from death to life; from darkness to light; from serving the flesh and the kingdoms of this present world to abiding in the spirit and truth of His word, and serving the living God.

For me now, to speak of hell and eternal torment in a fiery pit where flesh and sinew sizzle forever, is a concept which finds no fertile ground. Yet, in the beginning, at the outset of this journey it was a doctrine I wholeheartedly embraced. To my shame and with all of the religious zeal a pharisee could muster, I too concluded that the vast majority of humanity would burn or be destroyed in a literal inferno forever.

Eternal torment is a concept which found fertile ground in a callous and unregenerate mind. It motivated certain behaviour in me which I now see as being altogether ungodly. But again, in all fairness to myself, I was a babe in Christ, a creature of the flesh, seeking to make sense of this world through the doctrines of the institutional church.

In my zeal for God and for truth and righteousness, the doctrine of eternal torment made sense. That measure of wrathful vengeance of a Holy God on a wicked and evil creature. Yes, I wholeheartedly nodded my head in agreement to the comments of preachers throughout the age who would say “we deserve hell” or “hell is God’s holy justice upon a most depraved creature”. This I now realize was that same spirit that led to the murder of Abel, just dressed up in a religious garment.

Of course my carnal understanding wasn’t helped by the many and various versions of the bible which translate the word judgment into damnation(2 Thess 2:12). Damnation kinda fits with the doctrine of hell, yet, the original intention of the word is judgment, which speaks of something else altogether.

On top of that one of the first books I read when coming to the faith was a book called the “vision of Marietta Davis” an account of one woman’s journey into heaven and hell. I could go on about the many testimonies I’ve read or heard concerning eternal and unending torment in literal flames of fire, to which I thought only as truth revealed to God’s servants.

When I look back now at this most awful doctrine I consider it nothing less than a miracle that I escaped it’s hideous claws with all of it’s great lying signs and wonders


Eternal torment is an abomination!

Any doctrine which hides the nature and character of God is an abomination. Any doctrine which removes underlying truths from the gospel like justice, equity, mercy; love, is no less than a doctrine of demons.

When God’s true nature and character are tainted, when His truth is hidden, the minds of the very ones who have set out to follow Christ will end up on the broad way.

Hellish torment creates a culture of “fear” which is in itself an incredibly powerful driver for cultish behaviour. Fearing torment does not normally compel one to go out in the love of Christ and serve, rather it stands back waving a banner “repent or burn”

By all means apply a godly fear to your lives in order to motivate you to flee sins of the flesh, but why impose your hellish torments upon others.

A lot of that which hell believing followers do is motivated not by love, but fear of torment. It’s strength is not in the love of Christ, but the fear of damnation. Furthermore it leaves little room for justice in this present world, it suggests that God will not deal with men in an equitable and just manner, but rather repay them in a form and measure many times greater than the wages of their sin.

This inequity is also lived out in a more personal way when the believer, knowing he is loved by God sees himself as infinitely more worthy than the sinner, who is despised and hated by God and fit only for eternal torment and damnation. Self is exalted, selflessness is denied. “God loves His enemies” is nothing more than some kind of momentary lapse of God’s reasoning pending the great day of unending torment in flames of fire. Therefore this becomes a powerful motivator for how ones life is lived. It is not lived in selfless sacrificial agape love toward God and man, but inwardly self serving, self exalting, protection mode that does not see others as better than themselves.

Furthermore, where is mercy? Mercy triumphs over judgment! That’s what the word says and yet the doctrine of hell concludes that judgment triumphs over mercy. This is an abomination. If the Lord said that Mercy triumphs over judgment who are you oh man to deny His word?

Where is the love? God is love! The God who created the heavens and the earth who loves His enemies, and compels us to love; agape; selfless and sacrificial love, our enemies, shall He now go forth as a complete hypocrite and torment the ones He came to save? What happened to “love never fails”

Where is the power of God? the love of God? the mercy of God? the justice of God? when it comes to the inequitable, unjust and merciless doctrine of burning flesh and sinew forever more.

I spent many years in a church which wholeheartedly believed that God would send unrepentant sinners to eternal torment. I’ve seen it’s fruit and it’s not Christlike. Sure, there is a zeal for truth and righteousness, but the people rarely ever actually find these things. What they find is religion and the life as promised to them in Christ, alludes them. They remain within the walls of the institution, hunkered down, lest they stumble into damnation. Supposing that their separation from the world (in a literal sense) is the security of their salvation, which it is not.

If you think that standing in your congregation warning the world that they are all going to burn in eternal torment is somehow like Christ, or is somehow a demonstration of the love of God ; justice, mercy and truth, then you too have been taken captive by the lie. Why don’t we just read our bible and follow Him, imitate His life, live out a life which demonstrates love toward God and men.

Agape love is the fruit of the believer, Christ like agape, selfless and sacrificial love toward both God and man. This is the narrow way by which men enter into life.

Eternal torment is a founding doctrine of the man of sin, who sits in the temple of God proclaiming himself to be as God. He declares a merciless, loveless, callous and judgmental god that is reconciled with his own callous and carnal mind. A god of his own making. But for the grace of God, there go I.

The truth to that is far more profound than many perceive, that the Lord God Almighty will allow us to choose our own delusions because we would not receive a love of the truth. Now that my brothers and sisters is the manifestation of His wrath! Not unending torment.

But those who wish to boast should boast in this alone: that they truly know me and understand that I am the LORD who demonstrates unfailing love and who brings justice and righteousness to the earth, and that I delight in these things. Jer 9:24

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darasam4u: Frosbel, you've been deceived by the spirits of the last days. I pray God deliver you in Jesus name.