I was going through the thread tittled "Good Atheists Will Go To Heaven" - Pope Frances and I noticed that many people were againt the idea of good athiest going to heaven. . .

My question for the hell believers is this?. . .Why will you like any body to suffer in hell just for lack of belief in stories and hypothesis?. . .Not because the person is a mass murderer or a serial rapist and criminal. . .Why should a person suffer eternity in hell simply because he does not believe in stories that were told by unknown ancient men and their superstitions?. . .

^^^ First of all: WHy do you want to go to heaven that is based on "stories that were told by unknown ancient men and their superstitions?. . ."

mazaje: I was going through the thread tittled "Good Atheists Will Go To Heaven" - Pope Frances and I noticed that many people were againt the idea of good athiest going to heaven. . .

My question for the hell believers is this?. . .Why will you like any body to suffer in hell just for lack of belief in stories and hypothesis?. . .Not because the person is a mass murderer or a serial rapist and criminal. . .Why should a person suffer eternity in hell simply because he does not believe in stories that were told by unknown ancient men and their superstitions?. . .

my brother, it beats and amazes me. it shows how wicked the heart of man is... even seemingly good people cant help nursing wicked thoughts for their fellow humans.
after my studies in human psychology... i came to understand why some people commit evil. the little understanding i had made me wonder how much God, the creator of universe and humans should understand us.
some people are born in environment that result in them being violent or inherit genes that increases the tendency to be evil. yet what religion does is condemn people for behaviours they dont understand. some prosstitudes hawk because they have to feed their aging parents or sick young ones, yet all religion does is condemn them to hell.

ok lets forget about bad people. why condemn people for not believing in something that sound unbelievable to them? yet u think you have the right to disbelieve things that are unbelievable to u.

Of course, Christian theology has rationalizations for hell. One is that sinning against an infinitely good God demands a punishment as reparation. Eternal damnation in hell is the reparation. Another [url=en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_Hell]on Wikipedia[/url] is that hell is compatible with God's justice (and mercy !) because it doesn't tamper with the soul's free choice. This fails since judgement is implemented without the consent of the soul and since mercy is mutually opposed to justice (one seeks punishment for crimes the other witholds it). Some Christians roundtrip the glaring problems with the doctrine by not accepting it (e.g frosbel). Some accept it based on indoctrination (I think this goes for the average Catholic or Pentecostal), others think it is justified as sins demand punishment (I was once like that).
But I think the concept of hell belongs to grossly evil, sadist who revels in the pains of others.

okeyxyz: ^^^ First of all: WHy do you want to go to heaven that is based on "stories that were told by unknown ancient men and their superstitions?. . ."

I don't want to go to any heaven. . .I just want to know why people think unbelievers deserve to suffer in hell for all eternity for unbelief. . .

Uyi Iredia: Of course, Christian theology has rationalizations for hell. One is that sinning against an infinitely good God demands a punishment as reparation. Eternal damnation in hell is the reparation. Another [url=en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_views_on_Hell]on Wikipedia[/url] is that hell is compatible with God's justice (and mercy !) because it doesn't tamper with the soul's free choice. This fails since judgement is implemented without the consent of the soul and since mercy is mutually opposed to justice (one seeks punishment for crimes the other witholds it). Some Christians roundtrip the glaring problems with the doctrine by not accepting it (e.g frosbel). Some accept it based on indoctrination (I think this goes for the average Catholic or Pentecostal), others think it is justified as sins demand punishment (I was once like that).
But I think the concept of hell belongs to grossly evil, sadist who revels in the pains of others.

Most christians in the west whose morality has evolved so much see the hell doctrine for what it is.. .it is nothing but a sadistic retribution. . . .People don't really teach about hell these days because they see it for what it is. . .I just want those that accept the doctrine to tell us why they believe any body deserves to be in hell for eternity just because he disbelieves in stories. . .

The concept of hell revolves around fear. As religion evolves from one generation to another, people are becoming more rational (albiet slowly). Go tell the millions of Indians who don't know a clue who Jesus is, that they'd burn in hell for not believing in the christian God. Or maybe the millions of our fore fathers are probably burning in hell for not knowing who Jesus is.

Oh simple! They are told so and they also read so from their book. And they are forbidden from knowing any better.

Everybody will be judged according to the degree of truth they know now or knew at the time , and how they acted on that truth.

Those who acted on the truth in a persistently positive manner will be shown mercy and inherit life.

Those who acted on the truth in a persistently negative manner will be rejected and denied the gift of life.

The Lake of fire is simply a means to an end , which is for the riddance of all evil from this planet , including but not limited to liars, fraudsters, sexually immoral , murderers etc.

The ultimate purpose of GOD is to birth a new world wherein dwells righteousness , love and peace with Jesus Christ as it's Head.

Summary of my point : No one is tormented forever in a HELL , this is stuff of middle age myth.

Uyi keeps evolving.

Uyi Iredia: This fails since judgement is implemented without the consent of the soul and since mercy is mutually opposed to justice (one seeks punishment for crimes the other witholds it). Some Christians roundtrip the glaring problems with the doctrine by not accepting it (e.g frosbel). Some accept it based on indoctrination (I think this goes for the average Catholic or Pentecostal), others think it is justified as sins demand punishment (I was once like that).
But I think the concept of hell belongs to grossly evil, sadist who revels in the pains of others.

The bolded is false.

I reject it because it is a Myth.

Kay 17: Uyi keeps evolving.

So does frosbel. . .

Great question poster. The Abrahamic religions - christianity, islam and judaism use violence, fear and guilt as their main instruments for capturing and retaining followers. Take away those elements and their religions will collapse the next day. The reason is there isn't enough 'righteousness' in any of those faiths for them to stand on just that merit. They lack the philosophical depth of Buddhism, the wisdom of Taoism and African religion, or the ethics of Hinduism, Jainism, and Zoroastrianism.

So they need to fill that void with fear, violence and guilt-related input. That explains inventions like 'hellfire' as punishment for 'unbelief'.

Of course an entity intelligent enough to create a well-functioning, supremely balanced UNIVERSE using the most advanced mathematical principles, cannot possibly be the same being painted in the bible, who orders ra.pe, looting and massacres, and loves the smell of burning flesh. Neither can he be a being who tortures whole populations of souls eternally for not 'believing' in him in their limited human states...

So please ignore those tenets. They are entirely worthless.

When someone is ignorant of a fact or existence of a danger,where true love is,such person should be informed of the danger. That is what a true christian will do.

Whether you believe it or not ,hell is real and exists.
No christian can categorically say that he is saved from hell.But we all keep trying by obeying d word of God and faith in the resurrection power of Jesus Christ.

The devil wants people to live a careless life and downplay or neglect holiness. There is tendency for you to want to be careless with your life ,where you feel there is no hell,which is the plan of the devil.
This invariably makes many to commit suicide,because they assume there is non to give account to.

I want you to know that your unbelief does not change any fact. If a blind man ,who has never seen a car before in his life says, " there is nothing called a car",does that cancel the existence or invention of cars?

No true christian will be happy to see people perishing and be happy. If you see such,that christian does not have "love" ,which is part of the fruit of the Holy Spirit,& that kind of christian cannot make heaven.

A christian only forwarned, not that he is delighted that some will be destroyed in hell fire.

It is better to believe and change than not to believe and discover the truth when it is too late.

enilove: When someone is ignorant of a fact or existence of a danger,where true love is,such person should be informed of the danger. That is what a true christian will do.

Whether you believe it or not ,hell is real and exists.
No christian can categorically say that he is saved from hell.But we all keep trying by obeying d word of God and faith in the resurrection power of Jesus Christ.

The devil wants people to live a careless life and downplay or neglect holiness. There is tendency for you to want to be careless with your life ,where you feel there is no hell,which is the plan of the devil.
This invariably makes many to commit suicide,because they assume there is non to give account to.

I want you to know that your unbelief does not change any fact. If a blind man ,who has never seen a car before in his life says, " there is nothing called a car",does that cancel the existence or invention of cars?

No true christian will be happy to see people perishing and be happy. If you see such,that christian does not have "love" ,which is part of the fruit of the Holy Spirit,& that kind of christian cannot make heaven.

A christian only forwarned, not that he is delighted that some will be destroyed in hell fire.

It is better to believe and change than not to believe and discover the truth when it is too late.

If hell is real why then does it require belief?. . . .The sun is real as such no one needs to believe that it is real. . .Hell remains imaginary. . .

Why should a good person like Bill Gates who is trying his best to end global hunger, see that and end to polio and malaria is found, a person who has used his money to restore the eye sight of many who got blind with corrective surgery etc suffer in hell just because he does not believe in some stories that were told by ancient unknown men, but some one like Osama Bin Laden be in heaven enjoying heavenly maids, flying around and drinking from rivers of wine because he happened to be born into the right religion that accepted the revelation of the alleged creator or the universe?. . .

Why should any body suffer in hell for the crime of unbelief?. . .

mazaje: I was going through the thread tittled "Good Atheists Will Go To Heaven" - Pope Frances and I noticed that many people were againt the idea of good athiest going to heaven. . .

My question for the hell believers is this?. . .Why will you like any body to suffer in hell just for lack of belief in stories and hypothesis?. . .Not because the person is a mass murderer or a serial rapist and criminal. . .Why should a person suffer eternity in hell simply because he does not believe in stories that were told by unknown ancient men and their superstitions?. . .

What you call hell is a latin word.

The Jews use Hebrew language, so, they did not make used of the word hell.

Is the failure to believe in Jesus an evil OR a legalistic flaw?

Kay 17: Is the failure to believe in Jesus an evil OR a legalistic flaw?

The bible says an unbeliever is condemned already. . .

mazaje:

The bible says an unbeliever is condemned already. . .

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. " (Matthew 24:14).

truthislight:

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. " (Matthew 24:14).

You keep throwing bible verses all over the place. . . .

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. John 3:18

"And to the others he said in
mine hearing, Go ye after
him through the city, and
smite: let not your eye
spare, neither have ye pity:
Slay utterly old and young,
both maids, and little
children, and woman: but
come not near any man upon
whom is the mark; and begin
at my sanctuary. Then they
began at the ancient men
which were before the
house." (Ezekiel 9:5-6)

if we are created in d image of God and we humans can have evil tot towards somone wo as ofended us......den y cant God sinc we wer made in his image and likeness

mcfynest: "And to the others he said in
mine hearing, Go ye after
him through the city, and
smite: let not your eye
spare, neither have ye pity:
Slay utterly old and young,
both maids, and little
children, and woman: but
come not near any man upon
whom is the mark; and begin
at my sanctuary. Then they
began at the ancient men
which were before the
house." (Ezekiel 9:5-6)

if we are created in d image of God and we humans can have evil tot towards somone wo as ofended us......den y cant God sinc we wer made in his image and likeness

God can have evil thoughts? Right?? Wonderful! Christianity is reaching a new height with everyone having his/her opinion concerning God.

What would you think of your parents if they have evil thoughts towards you?

mcfynest: "And to the others he said in
mine hearing, Go ye after
him through the city, and
smite: let not your eye
spare, neither have ye pity:
Slay utterly old and young,
both maids, and little
children, and woman: but
come not near any man upon
whom is the mark; and begin
at my sanctuary. Then they
began at the ancient men
which were before the
house." (Ezekiel 9:5-6)

if we are created in d image of God and we humans can have evil tot towards somone wo as ofended us......den y cant God sinc we wer made in his image and likeness

Created in the image of god or god created in our own image?. . .

truthislight:

"And this gospel of the kingdom shall be preached in all the world for a witness unto all nations; and then shall the end come. " (Matthew 24:14).

Well, it has been preached.. Surely, the end of Christianity as we know it is closer than the coming of the Lord..

Most people don't care about moral retribution these days.. ask the millions of Nigerians that fill the pews every Sunday.. and go back to their ways as soon as service is over...

musKeeto:

Well, it has been preached.. Surely, the end of Christianity as we know it is closer than the coming of the Lord..

Most people don't care about moral retribution these days.. ask the millions of Nigerians that fill the pews every Sunday.. and go back to their ways as soon as service is over...

Bros.
This is perhaps the biggest cancer in the Nigerian landscape. The perverse notion that if I shout jesus jesus, go to church everyday, pay bribe money to preachers, somehow, I am now awarded a get-out-of-jail card that absolves me of personal accountability and responsibility, moral obligations, duty to community and nation.

It is very very sickening.

plaetton:
Bros.
This is perhaps the biggest cancer in the Nigerian landscape. The perverse notion that if I shout jesus jesus, go to church everyday, pay bribe money to preachers, somehow, I am now awarded a get-out-of-jail card that absolves me of personal accountability and responsibility, moral obligations, duty to community and nation.

It is very very sickening.

The bible says righteousness are like rags in the eyes of its god. . .

plaetton:
Bros.
This is perhaps the biggest cancer in the Nigerian landscape. The perverse notion that if I shout jesus jesus, go to church everyday, pay bribe money to preachers, somehow, I am now awarded a get-out-of-jail card that absolves me of personal accountability and responsibility, moral obligations, duty to community and nation.

It is very very sickening.

They call it grace vs works. It's easier to sin and keep asking for forgiveness, than 'obey' God's words.

It doesn't matter who's under the cosh, survival comes first. And that's what's happened to the 'Nigerian Christians', imo: facing up to the reality of a failed government and a God that's seemingly too slow to answer prayers as compared to those who have done 'juju' to succeed. So they've forced the 'WORD' to adapt to our current situation and the Bible is as malleable as you'd like it to be, ask Sign Fireman.

mazaje:

The bible says righteousness are like rags in the eyes of its god. . .

You see na. straight from the bible itself.
Who can argue with that?

We are in big dooodoooo.

masonkz:

God can have evil thoughts? Right?? Wonderful! Christianity is reaching a new height with everyone having his/her opinion concerning God.

What would you think of your parents if they have evil thoughts towards you?

pls dnt misunderstnd me....wat i am sayin is dat if God is provoked he wil close his eyes of mercy....did u boda reading d bible txt above?

mcfynest:
pls dnt misunderstnd me....wat i am sayin is dat if God is provoked he wil close his eyes of mercy....did u boda reading d bible txt above?

But christians claim their god is all merciful or merciful, how can an all merciful or merciful entity close his eyes to mercy?. . .

mazaje:

You keep throwing bible verses all over the place. . . .

Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because they have not believed in the name of God's one and only Son. John 3:18

Since u don't believe in the bible, why then are u bothered about what the bible is saying? Why are u bothered abt hell or heaven when u believe nothing of such exists? The bible could as well be insinuating jargons for all u care.
So u don't need to be afraid or disturbed of what u don't believe in.
Cheers!

Yes Mazaje, I saw that offensive thread as well where the muslim-girl-feet-kissing pope wanted us to join him in his heaven. Lord Lucifer forbid!
The way he was talking, you would think that going to heaven is a nice thing and that hell is full of suffering and gnashing of teeth. But the reverse is actually the case. Infact, hell is so good that it is actually difficult to go to Hell. Only the chosen souls of our Master get to enjoy Hell.
Heaven is full of restrictions while hell is real freedom.