shdemidemi:

How would you feel if I slam the image on the floor or break it with a hammer?

The fact of the matter is, there is no precedence for that since the birth of the church in the scripture.

OliverPin: Catholics do not worship images. when we bow we bow at the mentioning of Jesus not to the images. the images are just there as images in remembrance. and the case of mary, we only ask her to assist us in prayers just like you will ask your pastors to remember you in prayers. the image is just there as remembrance and not God. i hope i have made some points

peteregwu:

Mary is dead, so are the desciples. The bible only approve elders of the church that are alive to pray for those in need of prayers. Not dead saints. James 5:14-15 KJV
Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: [15] And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Images are not to be allowed, make them or mould them in anyway in the church or homes to bring about memories of Jesus. It is forbidden by God. but faith in Christ Jesus is what God approves.
Exodus 20:4-5 KJV
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: [5] Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;"

Praying to the dead (mary, peter, or anyone dead) is called necromancy, which is all d practice of witchcrafty.
Deuteronomy 18:10-12 KJV
There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, [11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. [12] For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord : and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Check your dictionary and look up the word 'necromancer' u will see what i mean. Dont practise witchcraft ignorantly and think u are serving God, ignorance is not an excuse before God because the bible is near u and u have refused to read it.

chukwudi44:

Point of correction,God did not say we should not make images rather he said we should not make or worship idols.God commanded the creation of images in several bible passages.It would be hypocritical of him to ask us not to make images and command the creation of some as well.Idols are simply images that are worshipped.

The other point you raised,asking Mary and the other saints to pray for us is not same thing as necromancy!! There are not dead but alive in heaven as Jesus rightly says

Surely you have read what God said about people rising from death. In the book where Moses wrote about the {burning} bush, it says that God told Moses this: 'I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob.' {If God said he is their God, then} these men are not really dead. He is the God only of living people. You Sadducees are wrong!"

— Mark 12:26-27 ERV

Syncan:

Same way I would feel had someone shown the same disrespect to the image of someone special to me, or even the coat of arm or national flag of my country.

The fact of the matter is, there is no prohibition of such since the birth of the Church in the scripture.

shdemidemi:

Where exactly have you been commanded to make images of Christ or Mary or whomever for any reason whatsoever?

shdemidemi:

I can understand you are connected to the people special to you by flesh, what connects you with the images you reverence?

Syncan:



Take a look at the names in bold from your post above, and tell me you just did not ask me this question below it in your right senses.

shdemidemi:

Mind your words, answer the question directed to you if you would--

The question is what connects you to these images you reverence?

Flesh or Spirit?

Syncan:

Sorry for any offense, non Intended. Do help me out here, people special to me includes my Dad(late), mum and siblings,Nelson Mandela,Martin Luther king jr.(late), Pope John Paul 11(late),etc. I posses their Images as well as the ones you mentioned. Help me with my connection to these, Is it Flesh or Spirit?

Also note that I added the flag of my nation in my earlier post.

shdemidemi:

I believe all these people are connected to you by flesh. The flesh has its emotions through our body members and our five senses. when it comes to the issue of spirituality, only a believer has this spiritual nature in addition with the flesh/natural/adamic nature. Therefore, we as believers can see things from two angles- through flesh or through the spirit.

My question is what is the relationship between you and the image- Is it just from the flesh, that is, no spiritual connotation attached or by the spirit?

Syncan:

In as much as I do not want to make a mince meat of the above statement based on what I understood of it,(I'll rather leave it for now) the ones in bold is your conclusion on my connection with those in my post which includes Jesus and Mary. I wonder what you want me to answer again, or are you asking me my connection with the inanimate "work of art" representing these people?

shdemidemi:

The statement in red is exactly what my question is.

italo:

Isnt that easy to figure out?

Similar to YOUR connection to the images of people you love, respect and honour. Only, in the case of Jesus and his mother, far more love, respect and honour is deserved.

shdemidemi:


Like I explained earlier, our body members which is part of our flesh has ability to reason, imagine, feel emotions. That is nature connected to the world and to the devil but as Christians we have a righteous nature which is spiritual and different from the natural. We live with a sin nature and a righteous nature.

The question is- are you connected to the images in the flesh or in spirit?

italo:

A very broad and ambiguous question.

I consider myself connected to God, his creation and all his children spiritually and physically. [b]And that includes Jesus, Mary and their statue[/b]s.

How are you connected to the images of people you love?

shdemidemi:

I see images of people connected to me as images, nothing more.

shdemidemi:
From your above statement, are you saying there is a spiritual connection between yourself and the statues?

italo:

Do you also see books written by people you love as books, nothing more?



Yes. Along with all of God's creation.

shdemidemi:

I can understand you are connected to the people special to you by flesh, what connects you with the images you reverence?

shdemidemi:

I see books as books, I don't worship or bow before any book.

shdemidemi:
Could you please explain the spiritual connection between you and these statues and what guided you to such belief.

italo:

So the Bible and a pornographic magazine have the same value to you?



The spiritual connection between the Israelites and the Ark of the Covenant.

The spiritual connection between God's people and the bronze serpent.

shdemidemi:

Don't get carried away with emotions..a book remains a book, the power in the word of God becomes active when it comes in contact with our soul. E.g I have the bible on my iPad as well, that does not make my iPad holy, the power is revealed when I understand what is written as the word of God on the iPad.

shdemidemi:
As for you and Israelite, God allowed many rituals for atonement in the old. Many erroneously pick doctrines from those Jewish tradition and all but the fact remains that a transformation happened at the death and resurrection of Christ. You and I as Gentiles were brought into the fold, not to follow the initial Jewish way of doing things but to follow Christ.

italo:


Same with everything. Everything remains what they are but the power of God can become active in and through them. E.g Food remains food but when I bless it, God's power can transform it into much more; like medicine to cure sickness etc. A building remains a building but when it is sanctified and dedicated as a house of the Lord, God's power can become active in and through it. Jesus' garment and St Paul's handkerchief remained pieces of cloth but God's power became active through them. Same with images and sacramentals.



So you agree that God's power became active in those images?

shdemidemi:

You are channelled in one direction and you keep using my explanation to pick your next question, how my last post gave you the feeling that I said statues are blessed is beyond me- The scripture says

16 For I am not ashamed of the gospel, because it is the power of God that brings salvation to everyone who believes: first to the Jew, then to the Gentile.

The only time when God's power is revealed is when we do things according to the gospel of Christ therefore bowing before images is not according to this gospel.. Do you get it?

italo:

So far, I have been answering your questions. If you are scared to answer mine, it's okay.

That's common with anti-Catholics all over the world.

Bye for now.

italo:


Same with everything. Everything remains what they are but the power of God can become active in and through them. E.g Food remains food but when I bless it, God's power can transform it into much more; like medicine to cure sickness etc. A building remains a building but when it is sanctified and dedicated as a house of the Lord, God's power can become active in and through it. Jesus' garment and St Paul's handkerchief remained pieces of cloth but God's power became active through them. Same with images and sacramentals.

Paul never tied his handkerchief to a place where he bows to or kneel before it because it carries power. Did he? He cannot bow to his shadow because it carries power.

Why can't you make a bronze snake and put in front of your church or in your house for healing purposes?

I have come to understand that delusion is at work here. As it has been purposed.

So you agree that God's power became active in those images?

peteregwu:

Mary is dead, so are the desciples. The bible only approve elders of the church that are alive to pray for those in need of prayers. Not dead saints. James 5:14-15 KJV
Is any sick among you? let him call for the elders of the church; and let them pray over him, anointing him with oil in the name of the Lord: [15] And the prayer of faith shall save the sick, and the Lord shall raise him up; and if he have committed sins, they shall be forgiven him.

Images are not to be allowed, make them or mould them in anyway in the church or homes to bring about memories of Jesus. It is forbidden by God. but faith in Christ Jesus is what God approves.
Exodus 20:4-5 KJV
"Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: [5] Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the Lord thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me;"

Praying to the dead (mary, peter, or anyone dead) is called necromancy, which is all d practice of witchcrafty.
Deuteronomy 18:10-12 KJV
There shall not be found among you any one that maketh his son or his daughter to pass through the fire, or that useth divination, or an observer of times, or an enchanter, or a witch, [11] Or a charmer, or a consulter with familiar spirits, or a wizard, or a necromancer. [12] For all that do these things are an abomination unto the Lord : and because of these abominations the Lord thy God doth drive them out from before thee.

Check your dictionary and look up the word 'necromancer' u will see what i mean. Dont practise witchcraft ignorantly and think u are serving God, ignorance is not an excuse before God because the bible is near u and u have refused to read it.

shdemidemi:

Hmm ok, God bless.

italo:


Same with everything. Everything remains what they are but the power of God can become active in and through them. E.g Food remains food but when I bless it, God's power can transform it into much more; like medicine to cure sickness etc. A building remains a building but when it is sanctified and dedicated as a house of the Lord, God's power can become active in and through it. Jesus' garment and St Paul's handkerchief remained pieces of cloth but God's power became active through them. Same with images and sacramentals.



So you agree that God's power became active in those images?

Syncan: ^^^You wont believe it, I'm actually Laughing out loud.

Boomark:

Paul never tied his handkerchief on any thing to bow and kneel before it just because God worked through it.

Why can't you make images of the bronze snake and mount it in your church or home for healing purposes?

All your comparisons made no sense. Our God hates idol worship, whether you are doing it in a modern way or with style. Idol worship is idol worship. Very different from worship in spirit.