hajidel:
Good day house; As promised I would like to share my wife's journey after the successful birth of our child and through the help and tips from this forum we acknowledge and show our gratitude. So hence we would like to share our own story so others may benefit from it.

Wife travelled at around 28 weeks and arrived in Montreal without any issues at the airport as we had always declared our intent of giving birth in Canada. I'm not sure if me residing in the USA did any trick but at the POE we were only asked a handful of questions and was let in without any issues. Now that is the easy part.
The real issue came when we needed to get a doctor and hospital to register with. Through the help of others on the forum here albeit most go to Toronto not much experience in Montreal so, we tried walk ins, urgent care, family GP etc but none of them was successful. We then tried to contact the hospitals direct and some would not accept patients without the insurance card which only residents of Canada can have. Some of the other hospitals were requiring us to pay a deposit of between CAD$15,000-25,000 which for me was not worth it. I then proceeded to give my wife hotstepper's contact so she can get another option. Hotstepper was very helpful in offering her services but unfortunately she turned it down as she would not have any relatives in Toronto that would offer emotional help.

Contemplated sending her back home to africa as
1. it did not make financial sense the offers the hospital were giving in terms of the deposit less the delivery (dependent of C or natural),
2. baby and mother per day
3. Epidural
4. Doctors fees
and some other fees that I have even forgotten about.

After a couple of weeks wife made some contacts and ended up choosing a birth center in Ottawa which was only $1500 cheaper than a hospital and only an hour and a half but does not offer epidural and if any complications arose then they would end up in the hospital.
She did a tour of the birthing center and found it fantastic. I decided to go to Canada from the USA myself to check out the center.Pre natal and the birth center visits were conducted every other week to check the progress of both mother and baby and it was all smooth sailing and I travelled back to the USA.

Arrived back in Ottawa 2 days to due date and unfortunately Wife went under 2 weeks overdue. On the day contraction started 2AM and made a call to the midwife and we were asked to come to the center at 4AM and off we went. Stayed at the center (i went to sleep at that time till 10AM LOL) and major contractions started at around that time and the actual labor process started. She came in at 3cm and later opened up to 8cm within a couple of hours. She was being attended to by 3 midwives and an elderly relative of hers who was extremely experienced in birthing and she was actually allowed by the midwives to chip in with her experience as they saw her doing some stuff that gave them confidence in her.

After a long contraction period of sever pains and only about 1.5 hours of pushing, the baby came. A boy at 3.5kg healthy with no complications from either the mom or the baby. No washing or cleaning of the baby whatsoever, just wrapped in blanket. We had a choice of going home after all the checks on mother and baby was done or could stay at the center for 24 or 48 hours at no extra charge. Food and drinks are available a-la-carte and at any time of the day or night. We decided to stay there overnight and left in the afternoon the next day. Once we got home, they bathed and cleaned him.

So tatal cost of the birthing

$CAD5,000

includes the prenatal and after delivery checkups. They also did a home visit 2 days later to check on the baby poo and pee, as well as his weight soft spot in his head. Three subsequent home visits were conducted to check on the progress of the baby. Food, transportation are also a big part of this process so that should not be discounted. So my wife would spend about $CAD100-150 per week on food and transportation.

Now to the paperwork.

In Quebec unlike Toronto were you have a turnaround time of about a week to do the birth declaration/registration (i'm not sure which one), you will have to do Birth Declaration with the state of Quebec. After the delivery, the center/hospital will give a form to confirm that the birth took place there and you will be given a copy of that form which you will take to the state of Quebec to do the declaration, where you will fill the child's full name, the parents names etc. But the catch is, it takes 15 working days for this declaration to be entered into the states system before you even apply for the birth certificate. We did the declaration the next working day and the waiting began. I would think that the declaration may not take the whole 15 days and after 10 or so I went in to inquire and negative and went in 2 times after that nothing. Eventually just the 15th day it was registered late in the afternoon and the next morning first thing we went to do the same day service for the birth certificate as oppose to having it mailed out which will further delay it.
We took the birth certificate and went into the embassy to apply for the travel certificate which was done the same day and we went to the passport office to apply for the passport and also chose the same day service as we had an itinerary that showed we will be traveling soon. We dropped off the passport application in the morning and picked it up in the afternoon and it was a 5 year valid passport.

From the birth to the declaration to the birth certificate and passport application took exactly 3 weeks and they left 2 days later and i went back to the USA to fly out from there.

All in all it was a mixed experience with emotional and physical distress.

My advice to anyone seeking this journey,

DO NOT UNDERTAKE THIS JOURNEY IF YOU DO NOT HAVE ENOUGH MONEY OR MOST IMPORTANTLY IF YOU DO NOT HAVE EMOTIONAL SUPPORT WHETHER IT BE FAMILY OR FRIEND. BECAUSE YOU CAN PAY THE HOSPITAL OR CENTER ITS ONLY MONEY BUT YOU CANNOT BUY EMOTIONAL SUPPORT

Secondly, you cannot buy the privilege of being a Canadian or any country in the west that offers Jus Soli citizenship as it is a key to traveling the world easily without much hassle and the medical and educational advantages that comes with it. No disrespect to my african roots as I am proud to be african.

Mental and emotional wellbeing or the benefits of being a citizen. If you have family who will offer you that and financially capable, then bingo go for it, but if no mental and emotional support, even if you have the financial means you might regret. So it comes down to what is more important to each individual.

CurvyDiva123:
I am currently 3 months pregnant and i would like to give birth abroad
i have a close family friend who is a nurse in new york, she owns a house and has been working and living in America for 20 something years. she sent me invitation during my last pregnancy but i was not ready financially
I dont have anyone in Canada at all but i hear i dont need to know anybody and giving birth over there is better
Please im here for anybody that can give me useful info, im new to Nairaland. i signed up cos of this
Please respond

Beedee2016:
Good day all. Pls can any1 recommend an affordable hospital in British columbia/doctor for cs? Pls I need help. It's very urgent . @hotstepper pls help your sis

sayittome:

Hi

chizzybaby247:
thanks so much my people. it was indeed a journey filled with testimonies.

i applied for my TRV on 26th August and got the visa Oct 12th, then i was already about 36 weeks gone. there was no place in the application that they asked if i was pregnant, so i didnt say i was. leaving Nigeria at that stage in pregnancy wasnt like i planned it that way but the visa took so long to be approved. i submitted via paper route in Abuja embassy. i didnt have any issue at the port of entry. the cbp only asked me how long am there for. i told him 2 weeks because thats what my flight booking says. i changed the dates when i got there, cause i intended staying for 2 months.

On my stay there, i stayed in my brother's house, and the wife took me to all the places i went to, so i didnt have the course to hire a cab. weather wasnt funny for me. that was the peak of winter there.

breakdown of the hospital bill(7000cad)
mother's bill 3000cad
doctor's bill 1600cad
baby's bill 2500cad

blood work for baby 600cad

that makes it total of 7600cad

I applied for the birth certificate and got it 7 days with 25cad

after which we travelled to Edmonton for the passport, i had to go for express and i paid 110cad and got it within 5 days.

i didnt go for Nigerian passport, we only got travelling document, from Otawa and i paid about 150cad not too sure. that also came out like in 5 days.

feel free to ask more questions if you need more information



Pls you are yet to reply me. Which city did you birth and the Dr name and hospital. Thanks

Demi007:
No I haven’t. Applied and took my mind off it immediately. I know the response will either be a yes or a no and either ways, life goes on. So im just going about my daily activities as usual.

Can’t add worrying to the list of things on my plate

Mslala:
Hello Everyone.

So I have decided to share. I did an online application in August 2018, did my biometrics early September. I had read the full seventy-something pages and seen where border patrol officers had thanked the ladies for their honesty after disclosing they were pregnant so in my cover letter (LOE) I clearly stated that I wanted the visa for the purpose of child birth.

I have a good job, have sufficient funds in my account, pension account and other investments which I clearly demonstrated through my LOE. I am a lawyer so writing a detailed explanation letter (with accompanying supporting evidence) was not a problem for me. I also have good travel history and have valid U.S and U.K visas. I got the U.S visa for vacation purposes so I felt let me apply for a Canadian visa instead, fully disclosing my intentions.

I got an interview invitation (which rarely occurs for Canada visa applications) and wasn't too worried as I thought they required some clarification regarding my application. So I researched Nairaland again for Canada interview transcripts. The only one remotely close to this was the guy and his wife who applied for a Canadian visa after they were denied U.S visa (after a birthing trip) and were called on the phone, and the guy disclosed that they will also use the visa for child birth.

So I attended the interview (using questions from U.S transcripts for child birth such as why Canada? budget for the birth? etc.). We were about 3 people waiting at their Anifowoshe Office; an elderly couple (I don't know what they came for), a middle aged man who came to retrieve his passport to collect his U.K visa, and myself. I was given an appointment time but I was kept waiting for more than 1hr:30 mins.

Finally, the visa officer had my time and began his interview. He told me that he will decide the application there and then based on the documents I had submitted and the interview. After asking preliminary questions like how many kids do you have etc., he asked why do you want to travel to Canada? A little perplexed, I responded that I had clearly indicated this in the first paragraph of my LOE, that I wanted to travel to have my baby in Canada. Then he asked, how do you think the Canadians feel about this? I responded that I know that there are some concerns in some quarters about citizenship by birth, but generally the Canadians are all inclusive. Then he responded "No, the Canadians do not like it. You come and have a baby and immediately the baby gets all the privilege of citizenship. I tried to explain that I was being honest and fully disclosing my intention upfront....he interjected "so we should disregard the feelings of the Canadians because of that". Anyways he want on about how it is an abuse of the system and disregard of immigration laws. I clarified that my friend (who had sent a letter of invitation) and my gynaecologist had spoken to doctors in Canada who were willing to accept an international patient, and that I did not intend to abuse the system and will pay all my bills for the birth (as I did when I had my daughter in US). He responded that whether there were doctors willing to accept international patients and regardless of if I pay all my bills, I will still be using government's assistance because all hospitals, unlike those in the US, are funded by the government. He reiterated that Canadians do not like birthright citizenship and that he was going to deny my application and a refusal letter will be handed over to me.

So I waited at the reception for the letter and it stated that I was denied because I may not come back due to financial assets, purpose of travel etc. but he had already clearly stated the reason for the denial. Lol.

So perharps when applying, you may want to state medical tourism instead of child birth outrightly because according to the Visa Officer, Canadians do not like jus soli.

Olalacious:
Hello my people,

LONG POST ALERT!!!

Weldone and thanks to everyone keeping this thread alive

I don dey read this thread for the past two weeks (from page 1 oh), in fact the page is permanently opened on my browser and i just keep reading in my spare time plus taking a lot of screenshots for future reference
Like someone said, this thread should be a taking and also giving back thread (Not only taking without sharing your experience), I will start sharing my experience as it goes and will keep on updating as I progress on this journey.

In 2015 I applied for US tourist visa and got a 2year entry. At POE in US told CBP i was also going to have my baby in the US along with the vacation. Baby came, all bills paid got zero balance from doctor and hospital. Fast forward to 2017, myself and hubby wanted to renew the visa, VO said why didnt we declare in the first interview that we wanted to have baby in the US. Told the VO that the initial VO who interviewed us did not ask any question on that and the plan was only to visit. He would have any of our story. Long story short, he denied us the visa.

Then I decided to try the Canada route. Read this forum like crazy to understand how to go about the application especially when you have been denied a US visa. After a lot of reading and digesting, myself and hubby summoned courage to apply for the TR visa. Plan was that we would travel for a visit in December as a tourist and then use that opportunity to see if we could scout for a doc/Gynae/settle accommodation plans etc and then next year when baby is due will travel for child birth. We submitted the application (via Paper route) went to VFS to submit all the requested supporting docs. This was on 22nd Oct. Exactly 10 calendar days after submitting the application, hubby got a call from the Canada embassy. Basically he was asked for the reason why we were refused a US visa. He then clearly explained to the Canadian VO that we were not no sufficient ties back home. He also mentioned that we had our baby there as well but all the bills were paid in full. Apparently the Canadian embassy had also called the US embassy people to find out why we were not given the visa but they did not give any convincing answer to the Canadian embassy hence the reason the Canadian embassy called us to find out further. Also during the convo, the Canadian VO then asked my husband if I was currently pregnant. My husband said yes and that we plan to also have the baby there next year but the reason for the initial visit was for tourism. The Canadian VO was like it is not illegal or a crime to go to Canada to give birth. If you have sufficient fund to cover it, you would most likely be given. They even called my husband’s company HR manager to confirm if salary certificate which we provided was correct (no be small thing).

Long story short, he told us to send receipts of our medical bills in the US as well as the refusal document which was received from US embassy. We sent all the details to him and even put the US hospital and doctor’s contact info to call them if they have any doubts. Exactly one week after sending all the details, we received a mail from the Canadian embassy to come and drop our passports. Got our passports back today. Mine stamped Multiple entry till 2021 hubby till 2019 as passport expires in 2019.

My peace of mind is that I have clearly declared to the VO that I would be giving birth so I no get fear for POE issues.
In my opinion, Canada Embassy processes your VISA in a fairer manner than US. They take time to review your documents properly and then make a decision based on that. But US ehn, its like before you even show up at the embassy, they have already made a decision without checking your docs..

Now unto the next stage of preparation, Accommodation /OB GYN/Hospital to use. As I no get family for Canada, Ontario will be my best bet as I can see from people’s review on this thread that it seems to be a relatively less expensive to birth there. I will start contacting the hospitals and docs now.

@Hotstepper, please help a sister out. How can you assist with accommodation options available and which city do you recommend I stay in (Brampton or Toronto)? Which is easier to move around in? Do you have anyone I can contact in arranging accommodation for a 2 month period. Also I have contacts of Dr Ayodele and Dr Abou of Brampton hospital and I have the Dr Grace contact of humber river. I just need to understand if I should call the doctor first or the hospital first or do I have to first get a Family Doctor who will then refer me to the hospital/Doctor. As I don’t have family doctor, please help if you can refer me to someone. Thanks a lot and look forward to your feedback.

Any other preggy mama bound for Ontario around April/May 2018 who doesn’t mind sharing accommodation? I need to plan this waka well in advance.

Thanks a lot to everyone and wishing every mama out there a safe one!!!

Phakabir06:
please when you were filling the form online . Please the place where you they wrote if you have been refused visa in Canada or any other country . Please did you indicate you have been refused in usa ??

benson3788:
Hi everyone, please I really need some advise. Girlfriend is pregnant (not a thing I'm proud of), and would like for her to have our baby in Canada. I've been sore worried as not being married might pose some problems at Visa processing. Please, any advise on ways to go about it? Thank you.

Mslala:
Hello Everyone.

So I have decided to share. I did an online application in August 2018, did my biometrics early September. I had read the full seventy-something pages and seen where border patrol officers had thanked the ladies for their honesty after disclosing they were pregnant so in my cover letter (LOE) I clearly stated that I wanted the visa for the purpose of child birth.

I have a good job, have sufficient funds in my account, pension account and other investments which I clearly demonstrated through my LOE. I am a lawyer so writing a detailed explanation letter (with accompanying supporting evidence) was not a problem for me. I also have good travel history and have valid U.S and U.K visas. I got the U.S visa for vacation purposes so I felt let me apply for a Canadian visa instead, fully disclosing my intentions.

I got an interview invitation (which rarely occurs for Canada visa applications) and wasn't too worried as I thought they required some clarification regarding my application. So I researched Nairaland again for Canada interview transcripts. The only one remotely close to this was the guy and his wife who applied for a Canadian visa after they were denied U.S visa (after a birthing trip) and were called on the phone, and the guy disclosed that they will also use the visa for child birth.

So I attended the interview (using questions from U.S transcripts for child birth such as why Canada? budget for the birth? etc.). We were about 3 people waiting at their Anifowoshe Office; an elderly couple (I don't know what they came for), a middle aged man who came to retrieve his passport to collect his U.K visa, and myself. I was given an appointment time but I was kept waiting for more than 1hr:30 mins.

Finally, the visa officer had my time and began his interview. He told me that he will decide the application there and then based on the documents I had submitted and the interview. After asking preliminary questions like how many kids do you have etc., he asked why do you want to travel to Canada? A little perplexed, I responded that I had clearly indicated this in the first paragraph of my LOE, that I wanted to travel to have my baby in Canada. Then he asked, how do you think the Canadians feel about this? I responded that I know that there are some concerns in some quarters about citizenship by birth, but generally the Canadians are all inclusive. Then he responded "No, the Canadians do not like it. You come and have a baby and immediately the baby gets all the privilege of citizenship. I tried to explain that I was being honest and fully disclosing my intention upfront....he interjected "so we should disregard the feelings of the Canadians because of that". Anyways he want on about how it is an abuse of the system and disregard of immigration laws. I clarified that my friend (who had sent a letter of invitation) and my gynaecologist had spoken to doctors in Canada who were willing to accept an international patient, and that I did not intend to abuse the system and will pay all my bills for the birth (as I did when I had my daughter in US). He responded that whether there were doctors willing to accept international patients and regardless of if I pay all my bills, I will still be using government's assistance because all hospitals, unlike those in the US, are funded by the government. He reiterated that Canadians do not like birthright citizenship and that he was going to deny my application and a refusal letter will be handed over to me.

So I waited at the reception for the letter and it stated that I was denied because I may not come back due to financial assets, purpose of travel etc. but he had already clearly stated the reason for the denial. Lol.

So perharps when applying, you may want to state medical tourism instead of child birth outrightly because according to the Visa Officer, Canadians do not like jus soli.

hajidel:
This is ridiculous to say the least. I feel really bad for you as this must have been very tough.

What I would like to point out as well is having an interview is not necessarily a bad thing, for me it is actually a blessing in disguise and its better than being outrightly denied after doing online application.

Mslala:
Hello Everyone.

So I have decided to share. I did an online application in August 2018, did my biometrics early September. I had read the full seventy-something pages and seen where border patrol officers had thanked the ladies for their honesty after disclosing they were pregnant so in my cover letter (LOE) I clearly stated that I wanted the visa for the purpose of child birth.

Mslala:


There was no doubt about the purpose of my trip and the Visa Officer wasn't open minded so there was no convincing him. He was fixated on his position that Canadians do not like jus soli. So me telling him the history of Canada and how Canadians are originally immigrants (which he already knows), as well responding that Canadians also have their babies outside Canada and would continue to do so would have ended the interview faster, and with the refusal letter.

Birthright tourism is currently an issue for the 2019 elections in Canada.

https://globalnews.ca/news/4410446/conservative-convention-birth-tourism-canada/

baddo:


I would like to say that you did the right thing by declaring your intention and you also tried with the answers you gave the officer. His judgement was skewed towards how he personally felt about the citizenship by birth law and not what the law actually allows one do lawfully. He is not there to enforce the laws of the "haters of the citizenship by birth group". He was supposed to look at your visa application without a biased mind according to the laws governing birthing by internationals.

How is it government assistance, when a bill for international patients will be applied.
How are you denying service time to other Canadians when its time paid for. Sheeesh

The laws governing the issue of birthing abroad and others should always supersede other views even if they are in the majority.
An officer of the law should not let his personal views cloud his judgement.

If he had an atom of judicial temperament he would not have denied you this visa and funny enough grant someone who is not as honest same visa and end up meting her in a Canadian hospital as an international patient for birthing.

If he did meet this dishonest person, there is nothing he can do but squeeze his face in disapproval of his own prejudice that made it possible for the dishonest patients to be in Canada to the annoyance of his haters of the citizenship by birth group

baddo:
I still cannot understand how the presence of a patient at a hospital other than her own country’s, especially when she is in the country legally and has fulfilled all requirements to be in same country, can be seen as hinderance and unlawful in the eyes of its citizens.

This is same as saying that irrespective of your reason for being a foreigner in a country, when you fall ill then the citizens, sorry the government should see you as disturbing the peaceful tally sequence of the medical circle for its citizens. This is absurd.

If every country’s was to have this same view about visitors to their country for tourism, business or other reasons accessing their medical facility, people will prefer returning to their country when they fall ill abroad rather than face this kind of unbelievable rejection.

This is not about citizen by birth haters, it is bigger than that. If this type of prejudice is allowed to fester it will one day result in ordinary tourist being rejected at hospitals because a majority think that their presence prevents a citizen from having his time at the doctors.

As if taking a citizens turn at the hospital is the same as taking his turn at the voting booth. Well this is just me saying I may still be wrong.

maternal:


Well she wasn't granted a visa. But it's not for you to understand what the people of Canada has decided to do. This is what they're trying to avoid. Guess who's on the hook for this mothers bill ? The tax payer. Besides you're only hearing this posters side of the story. These border officers aren't fools.


https://www.ctvnews.ca/canada/vancouver-health-authority-suing-mother-for-more-than-300k-in-unpaid-fees-1.3973661

hajidel:
You may agree or disagree but its obvious that some of these border officials that you claim aren't fools are actual fools. You cannot just discriminate against someone because you personally feel what they are doing is wrong when in actual fact it is not wrong that's why its in the constitution. If the government of Canada feels this is wrong and wants to exercise the views of its citizens, then they should do so at the polling station and adjust the constitution accordingly. And for your information the officer that refused that particular lady is a prejudicial POS, as if you read her originally post, the refusal never stated anything about it being for the birth. So that alone should let you know that its personal and discriminatory from the officer. He/She is just bitter.

hajidel:


If i were you I would reapply ASAP and write a strongly worded letter stating the facts together with the application and of course your US history may serve adversely but include the paid bills and every other documentation proving all was settled. I know its time consuming but sometimes when things as biased as this occurs to an honest applicant you don't let it rest like that, follow through then they may reconsider their biased views and besides no one officer is allowed to review your application twice to minimize prejudice.

Mslala:
@badoo, I think the problem is jus soli and not medical tourism per se. His major problem was that the baby will immediately be entitled to the privileges of Citizens upon birth. Other medical tourism (excluding child birth) do not confer this privilege so then they are fine with you using the hospital (funded by the government) and depriving a Canadian of that service.

@maternal, I had N6+ million in my account, and N7+ million in my pension account, facts he could have easily verified by contacting my bank and PFA if financial asset was truly an issue. Like I stated, he was clear that Canadians do not like jus soli and therefore he was going to refuse my application.

@hajidel, yes he was clearly biased and prejudiced, and unfortunately the review of visa applications are highly subjective to the views (liberal or conservative) of the visa officers reviewing them. That’s why an applicant can apply with the same facts and documents, and be refused initially by one visa officer and subsequently granted by another visa officer.

Has anyone disclosed childbirth solely (without any medical/health issue) as the reason for the visa application and received an approval?

hajidel:
I certainly understand that point you're coming from. However, even if the interview ended faster than it did, the eventual outcome is the same but you would have given him food for thought as to him knowing that not what they think of 3rd world countries as they put it is like that. And trust me, the outcome could've have been different I cannot say for sure, but you arguing your points and case with facts will definitely not do you any more harm than there already is. The point you raised about him thinking for the people and hitting him with that would've hurt him bad because he sounds like a bitter, discriminative POS.

And until the elections is over and they outrightly remove birth tourism from the constitution it is there to be used. Besides, there is a snowball chance in hell that they will succeed with this jus soli in this coming elections.

If i were you I would reapply ASAP and write a strongly worded letter stating the facts together with the application and of course your US history may serve adversely but include the paid bills and every other documentation proving all was settled. I know its time consuming but sometimes when things as biased as this occurs to an honest applicant you don't let it rest like that, follow through then they may reconsider their biased views and besides no one officer is allowed to review your application twice to minimize prejudice.

My wife after giving birth in Canada went to apply for US visa and the officer said she won't give her because she had given birth in Canada! I was perplexed and guess what, next morning i went forward and paid the visa fee for an imminent appointment and told her to go to the interview not for any other reason but to confront and argue the biased and discriminatory view of the visa officer. Lo and behold, approved visa.

baddo:


I would like to say that you did the right thing by declaring your intention and you also tried with the answers you gave the officer. His judgement was skewed towards how he personally felt about the citizenship by birth law and not what the law actually allows one do lawfully. He is not there to enforce the laws of the "haters of the citizenship by birth group". He was supposed to look at your visa application without a biased mind according to the laws governing birthing by internationals.

How is it government assistance, when a bill for international patients will be applied.
How are you denying service time to other Canadians when its time paid for. Sheeesh

The laws governing the issue of birthing abroad and others should always supersede other views even if they are in the majority.
An officer of the law should not let his personal views cloud his judgement.

If he had an atom of judicial temperament he would not have denied you this visa and funny enough grant someone who is not as honest same visa and end up meting her in a Canadian hospital as an international patient for birthing.

If he did meet this dishonest person, there is nothing he can do but squeeze his face in disapproval of his own prejudice that made it possible for the dishonest patients to be in Canada to the annoyance of his haters of the citizenship by birth group

Hotstepper:


I just believe it alll depends on the officer . If u still have ur US visa, head there. if I may ask, why did u decide to come to Canada this time?