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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / Islam for Muslims / Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy (4108 Views)
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Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by LagosShia: 9:49am On Jul 19, 2013 |
BetaThings: Ramadan Kareem. |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by vedaxcool(m): 10:10am On Jul 19, 2013 |
LagosShia: quote of the thread! |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by LagosShia: 10:19am On Jul 19, 2013 |
vedaxcool: "And your Lord creates what He wills and chooses; not for them was the choice. Exalted is Allah and high above what they associate with Him".(28:68) you're confusing those Allah (swt) choose,even if they be offspring one of the other,with monarchy where men impose their families and offspring upon other men claiming to be royal and higher than others through birth,even if they are not pious as Allah (swt) also said: "the best among you is the pious". "Surely the kings, when they enter a town, they ruin (corrupt) it and make the noblest of its people to be low, and thus they (always) do;" (27:34) |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by BetaThings: 10:21am On Jul 19, 2013 |
deols: I want to concentrate on Muslim and Christians Muslims have always led by example in this country. Where has it got us really There is nothing that Muslims want that Christians don't protest; we (Muslims) don't rail against what Chritians want I am not debating, just pointing out facts 1. Muslims want Islamic Banking - Christians say No 2. Muslim students want to wear Hijab - Christians say No 3. The Nigerian Stock Exchange (NSE) wanted to list an Islamic Index - Christian protested 4. Female Stockbrokers wore Hijab to their office and then the floor of the NSE - Christian DG (Okereke Onyiuke) and some Christian stockbrokers said No. The brokers could not trade for about 5 months until the NSE council overruled her. If it had lingered, they would have lost their jobs (what is the use of a broker that cannot trade?) I am trying to remember what Christians want that Muslims objected to Where has that all "good" example got us? Even on Nairaland, any good post about Islam that makes it to the fp causes a lot of agitation to Christians We don't care when they have several of theirs on the fp. They can fill the entire fp with their sermons. It does not matter to us in the least. And I can proudly refer any objective poster to the conduct of both Muslims and Christians on NL But we are always accused of intolerance. On Saudi Arabia, I would rather be RIGHTLY accused of intolerance, than in error To repeat - nothing is wrong with keeping Christians out of Saudi Arabia. Officially it is a country governed by Shariah Are they not always accusing us of hating them and angling to "cut off their hands and behead them?" What do they want? Do they want to commit suicide? I can assure you that the Saudis cannot match the Christians. How do you fight people whose major arsenal is propaganda? Do you recall that thread on hoaxes and fabrications? Those are the tools of the "implacable and experienced propagadinsts" I am sure that you recall how the Christian moderators wickedly suggested to Seun that there should be a warning about insulting Islam. we know that our Prophet (SAW) and Allah are insulted by Christians and others (which our moderators try to deal with) while we don't insult their own figures. But we get blamed for intolerance Back to Saudi Arabia Can we imagine the number of fake Qur'an (BTW it is real - I have a fake Qur'an) that would land in that country within 1 year? Can we imagine the number of naive and vulnerable muslims (performing Hajj and Umrah) that will be at the mercy of all of that propaganda I studied CRK in a public secondary school - no IRK was offered. I am yet to see in real life those lofty Christian qualities they told me about in school I admire your desire for fairplay. But I have learnt the hard lesson that people are not so chivalrous and they NEVER reciprocate - I have defended people on NL who in return sank their teeth on our flesh 1 Like |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by BetaThings: 10:36am On Jul 19, 2013 |
Nairatalks: It is sad when some of my fellow muslims are not honest about Saudi Arabia just to win an argument. You don't need to remind us of honesty. Do Christians tolerate Muslims even in Nigeria where we are? |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by BetaThings: 10:41am On Jul 19, 2013 |
Nairatalks:So Oklahoma bombing shows that American does not have security? Forget what Shias claim. Everyone has an agenda. And everyone tries to safeguard himself. It is human nature Here in Nigeria were we not told that Yaradua did not hand over to Jonathan because Jonathan is a Christian from the South? What reason did they give when Enugu state gov did not hand over to his deputy? - Religion? Tribalism Please let us argue based on reality and not on the basis of some imaginary principles that the proponents have never implemented and will never practise anyway 1 Like |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by jelel6: 11:26am On Jul 19, 2013 |
I have read virtually all post written here. And I must say that they were very insightful and informative. Nevertheless, so many of them were bias and prejudiced. Simply because we as muslim, no longer speak with one voice. |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by jelel6: 12:12pm On Jul 19, 2013 |
with regards to the topic, here is my take: If you are interviewing two persons for the post of a maths teacher, and you pose the question: 2+2= what? And {A} says 3 while {B} says 4. Which would you employ {A} or {B}? Ofcourse you would employ {B} and do away with the other you doesn't know basic arithmetic! similarly, we as muslims are the expert in religion. “The Religion before Allah is Islam (submission to His will)”. [Al-Qur’an 3:19] It is further mentioned In Surah Ale Imran Chapter 3, verse 85 (3:85) “If anyone desires a religion other than Islam (submission to Allah), never will it be accepted of him; and in the Hereafter he will be in the ranks of those who have lost (All spiritual good).” [Al-Qur’an 3:85] If you analyse other major religious scriptures no where does it state that only its religion is correct and acceptable by God. Just as the principal above who is an expert in the field of education would never employ a teacher who does'n know maths. Similarly muslim who are expert in religion and know that islam is the only correct and acceptable religion in the sight of Allah would not allow anyone to preach any other religion besides islam to be preach and practice in saudi Arabia. Allah knows best. |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by Sissie(f): 1:15pm On Jul 19, 2013 |
@betathings so true thats similar to what I tell people. We had a national Christmas tree and decorations funded by the government and Muslims didn't protest. In Abuja every Christian holidays the city is decorated with lights and so many Christian decorations, during eid holidays there's no decorations, and no one protested. The boko haram they all talk about has killed more Muslims than Christians, but the christians make it look like only churches and Christians are killed. It's terrible. And what do we Muslims do? we argue about things that are either not relevant or we have no control of. |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by deols(f): 8:21pm On Jul 19, 2013 |
BetaThings: The Nigerian situation is a good example. About the Nigerian Christians, I have seen many of them at school, airports, here on NL etc and they have never succeeded in hiding their intolerance. That is not my issue actually. I am not debating that. I was just saying, especially in relation with lagosShia's posts that oppressing others for disagreeing with you may not be the best way to it. I am not asking for Saudi to allow the Christians. In fact many of the strict laws only exist in makka and madinna. There are cities where a lot of atrocities are committed under the government's nose. In such cases I wish the laws are reviewed to suit the Islamic practice more. There is no reason to argue too much on this actually. That the laws are strict is FACT. it doesnt suit all is another fact. That the laws favour Islam and how we want it practised is what some of us like and the other people hate. [size=4pt] [s] Is anyone thinking what I am thinking that nairatalk may not be a Muslim. He could be logicboy, pretending to be a Muslim [/s] |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by BetaThings: 3:01am On Jul 20, 2013 |
Sissie: @betathings so true thats similar to what I tell people. That is their idea of secular state - where anything reminding anyone of Islam is suppressed While Christian activities are promoted by the state. That is their definition of tolerance Have you noticed how creative they are? They are so ingenious and very brainy when trying to rationalise their ill-treatment of muslims The OP here is lamenting that Saudi Arabia does not allow foreigners to practise their religion (Christianity) but is perfectly happy that in violation of the Nigerian constitution, a Nigerian is flogged for wearing the hijab because of the pronouncement of a school Thus even a bus driver, local government, school, company can then make a rule to remove my constitutional right! The Saudi Arabia of their dream is one that will one day operate a secular constitution that will allow a Saudi school flog Saudi pupil for wearing hijab On that day they will be explaining away why the hijab should NOT be tolerated but today they want Saudi to tolerate them Let them allow that mosque in Rivers State university first 3 Likes |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by BetaThings: 7:28am On Jul 20, 2013 |
deols: [s] Nairatalks: More religion is not the answer. More science, more sensible laws, more education and more sensible investments are the key to catching up with the west. I am a religious person myself but religion is not everything. God is! And I believe God is in each and every hardworking man who wants to progess in th world I saw his posts earlier and discovered that EVERY One of his posts is critical of Islam He has never said a single word (sorry letter) against any other person apart from muslims He presents himself as someone who is truthful, accusing virtually everyone of dishonesty I did not want to derail the thread by focussing on him Alhamdu Li Llah. They must resort to lies, deception to fight Islam because the truth is too intimidating for them etc |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by BetaThings: 7:53am On Jul 20, 2013 |
deols: Let me start with this. This is the mentality behind most of the criticism I see around - either I make sure that my own person is not judged or his flaws are overlooked or explained away while I highlight the ills of others sojjy: @crackles,don't accuse men of God wrongly.Even if T.B is a fraud,you don't need to judge him as judgement only lies in God hands.I jst pity Yara'adua 4 wat Turai has turned him to.Power drunk turai. We both know that this thread is a product of ill will and it is designed to achieve very very selfish ends. Saudi Arabia is a muslim country. I am not a Saudi, but I am a Muslim. Alhamdu li Llah. I will not deliver a muslim country, system, leader, ruler onto a slab while others are shielding theirs So what you desire is noble, I have not seen fair play. I am therefore not sure about talking about what they should do when others clamouring for change have no intention of playing by the same rules. Meanwhile I will continue to pray that Allah guides me, my Muslim brothers and sisters in Saudi Arabia and elsewhere. |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by tbaba1234: 10:00am On Jul 20, 2013 |
BetaThings: I think, he is logicboy. Suspected that from Day 1. Doesn't matter, when he wants to reveal himself, he will. |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by AbdH: 10:37am On Jul 20, 2013 |
LagosShia:I advocate the use of the Islamic Khilafah system to run the affairs of Muslims and I do not believe that the monarchy Saudi operates is right and I will never defend it anywhere. It is good to criticize Saudi whenever they go wrong but I tell you that there is no where Islam is fully implemented not even in countries where there are other sects (e.g Shia) of Islam having the majority. These countries are as guilty as Saudi for that reason because nothing stops them from leading by example. About Saudi fueling sectarian killings, I have no first hand information about that and I consider all unverifiable news mere speculations until otherwise proven to be true...moreso, I wouldn't consider any news that come from a media that is run by people are wont to be influenced by sentiments because they belong to another sect. I wouldn't want to derail this thread any further for that is what I accused you of in the first place. On the topic, I go with Betathings. |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by Nairatalks: 4:27pm On Jul 20, 2013 |
BetaThings: Are you stopped from practicing Islam in southern Nigeria which is the Christian stronghold of Nigeria? How shameful that you would even try to compare the situation in Saudi Arabia to Nigeria. Apples and oranges to me. Nigeria has its problems but they are not related to the topic at hand which is Saudi Arabia destruction of freedom of religion. |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by Nairatalks: 4:36pm On Jul 20, 2013 |
BetaThings: What are you talking about, sir? Focus on the issue at hand. Saudi Arabia lacks security and it is an intolerant country when it comes to freedom of religion. Christians should practice their faith freely. And yes, America has poor security compared to its European counterparts. Oklahoma bomber is one bomber but what about the multiple bombers that came from Saudi Arabia? I gave an example of Malaysia but everyone kept quiet and went back to their political agenda. Seems that we have some extremists among us. May Allah guide us. I pray that we treat others as fairly. Remember that when you do something bad to someone of another religion, he can do worse to you in his own haraam religion |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by Nairatalks: 4:39pm On Jul 20, 2013 |
Saudi Arabia can learn from Malaysia. Malaysia is a great Islamic country. A peaceful country with Sharia law and an effective method of living in peace with non muslims. A country where you will hardly hear of the royal family's extravagance. |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by LagosShia: 4:41pm On Jul 20, 2013 |
AbdH: http://www.humanrights.asia/news/ahrc-news/AHRC-STM-042-2013 http://www.aimislam.com/salafi-cleric-in-saudi-calls-for-savage-killing-of-shia-women-and-children/ http://munirsaami.ca/?p=236 |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by BetaThings: 5:37am On Jul 21, 2013 |
Nairatalks: I am not interested in debating security in those places - if you have strategic information, share it But your opinion is clearly uninformed but it is not crucial to this thread You should start by treating Muslims fairly And you don;t have a political agenda? Declare yours first - is it defence of Christians or homosick or both? 1 Like |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by BetaThings: 5:42am On Jul 21, 2013 |
Nairatalks: Saudi Arabia can learn from Malaysia. Malaysia is a great Islamic country. A peaceful country with Sharia law and an effective method of living in peace with non muslims. A country where you will hardly hear of the royal family's extravagance.I don't see Malaysia as being that great from the perspective if Islam As for living in peace, I have met lot of non-muslim Nigerians living in peace in Saudi Arabia Some would even like to live there permanently The day I see non-muslims praising a particular musim, then that muslim should check himself Islam is not about pandering to the whims of non-muslims As a "converted muslim" you will not understand but will debate without knowledge You need to learn more the seerah and fiqh of Islam 1 Like |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by BetaThings: 7:58am On Jul 21, 2013 |
Nairatalks: Yes, I am stopped from reading my Quran in peace by Christians preaching inside buses (contrary to the law) As a converted Muslim, I know that you consider reading the Quran inside the bus injurious to public peace I am not allowed to patronise an Islamic bank because the Christians don't want one for the country. I am therefore not allowed to obey Allah fully by shunning riba. To you it is okay because I am too religious though I don't close expressways while going to camp If I don't have enough money to send my children to private school, they will be denied the right to wear the hijab in PUBLIC schools (funded by tax payers) though we operate a secular constitution Even if they try to practise Islam according to the Quran by wearing the Hijab, they will nearly be flogged to death You also see nothing wrong in that Nairatalks: You don;t understand context Your bias is making you lose sight of certain facts Saudi has expressly declared that it will be governed by Sharia. So non-muslims know what to expect The shame is actually on your Christian friends when they criticise SaudiA but in a secular country can declare Plateau a Christian state or rail against Osun state for changing the name of the state from Livingspring (which they claim speaks of Jesus) to the "State if Righteous" Nairatalks: A country that declares itself governed by Sharia does not pretend to allow freedom of religion During the cold war, America did not allow people to practise communism freely and that was in line with their doctrine of capitalism You need to understand elementary issues about religion before posting It is the Nigerian Christians who claim to defend a secular constitution but get agitated when they see people wearing hijab that have issues with religious freedom 1 Like |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by BetaThings: 8:17am On Jul 21, 2013 |
AbdH: Please let us not allow this matter become an issue between Shia and Sunnis It is an incontrovertible fact that Shias books say that they should KILL anyone who CALLS HIMSELF a Muslim and does not believe that Ali should have become the caliph immediately the Prophet (SAW) died
I don't like injustice and I maintain it is unjust to single out SaudiA. Let us bring ALL countries to the table for examination But the focus on SaudiA that informed this thread is actually borne out of bad faith and it is infact an act of injustice and assault on the freedom of the SaudiA to legislate for their country Do you see people who rail about injustice open threads to condemn injustice by people whose beliefs they share? 1 Like |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by LagosShia: 8:45am On Jul 21, 2013 |
BetaThings: if you claim you're fasting,it is null and void.you can feel free to break your fast because on the Day of Judgment you can hold me responsible for the act,and I will make my case.there is no need for someone who claims to be a "muslim" and is said to be fasting to be making big lies that Shia are required by their books to kill anyone who is "muslim" (by which you mean Sunnis).we do not say that even though in reality animals like you abuse the gift of life.and for your info,the allegation of killing and terrorism is made against the Shia on imaginative grounds while the Shia are the ones suffering the actual sectarian killing and terrorism of the Wahhabis/Salafis among Sunnis: "A Timeline Of Sectarian Terrorism Against Shia Muslims" https://www.nairaland.com/961495/timeline-sectarian-terrorism-against-shia "Genocide Of Shia Muslims In Pakistan" https://www.nairaland.com/1120418/genocide-shia-muslims-pakistan |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by Sissie(f): 10:00am On Jul 21, 2013 |
LagosShia:On what authority do you relly on to tell someone is fasting is null and void? So you are so sure that you won't be busy answering questions on the day of judgement about how you spent your youth, how you treated miskin and the neighbors etc. That you want to add more by defending why someones fast is null and void. You called him an animal who abuse the gift of life? Really?. How's he an animal and how has betathings as a person abuse the gift of life Let us all be Muslims and fear Allah. I don't really care about your Shia, Sunni believes, but If you disagree with him, and then tender your arguments and show us the hadith that said otherwise. 2 Likes |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by LagosShia: 12:27pm On Jul 21, 2013 |
Sissie: you should have started by condemning his lie,instead of talking what doesn't concern you.my judgment is my affair and does not concern you.it has nothing to do with you as I do not seek your assistance to enter al jannah.many muslims are already in a living hell on earth.try to change that before fear of the hell in the hereafter.his lie reminds me of non-muslims saying muslims are taught to kill unbelievers.is that also true? in fact they twist verses of the Holy Quran and take them out of context to substantiate their lies. I don't know what hadith he is referring to.we have thousands of hadiths in our books,both the ones we accept and the ones we reject also.would I start to present each and every one. the fact is we do not and it is not in our belief to kill ANYONE regardless of what faith or sect or belief he adheres to for adhering to it."he who wills should believe and he who wills should disbelieve","to you your religion and to me my religion" and "there is no compulsion in religion".these are the statements of the Quran which we adhere to and to us the Quran supercedes ANY hadith wherever it may be found,in Shia or Sunni sources.these statements promote tolerance and freedom of choice to believe or disbelieve.further than that,a fatwa by Ayatollah Sistani was released obliging the Shia not to retaliate against innocent Sunni civilians even though the Shia are killed.and he emphasized that the Sunnis are not only our brothers but should be regarded as our own selves.and you can feel free to show me where the Shia go to open markets,mosques and schools to kill Sunnis because they are "heretical",as it the case on the other side. |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by Sissie(f): 1:03pm On Jul 21, 2013 |
Am not joining you in your argument like I said, I don't care about your Shia, Sunni believes and debate. So there's no need to ask him about lie or no lie. Yes you do not seek my help to enter Al-jannah. And it's sad you are bent on arguing and being defensive that you didn't see the "message" in what I wrote. But as a Muslim brother to me and as someone who believes in the Muslim being an ummah, I wrote that which is the same thing I would have told any Muslim who wrote what you did irrespective of his sect. But oh well kudos to you. May Allah lead us to the right path not to the path of those astray. And thats a prayer for every Muslim irrespective of your sect. Muslim living in hell on earth already, I should try and change that. Please advise me on how to go about changing all the Muslims living in hell on earth already, and you how are you going about doing that, by writing long stories, arguing and insulting people on nairaland? 1 Like |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by LagosShia: 1:05pm On Jul 21, 2013 |
Sissie: Am not joining you in your argument like I said, I don't care about your Shia, Sunni believes and debate. So there's no need to ask him about lie or no lie. ameen. |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by LordReed(m): 9:35am On Jul 22, 2013 |
BetaThings: I dislike people attributing silly motives to me without a shred of evidence. Where in any of my posts have I ever rejoiced that the pupil was flogged? How is my original post a lament? How is that a question and probing of your religion is construed as an attack or intolerance? If a mosque is built in RSU is Saudi suddenly going to allow Christians to build churches there? Please mind your passion. I have muslim friends, colleagues and associates, we treat ourselves with mutual respect and regard so do not presume to insult me because we are on a faceless forum. |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by LordReed(m): 9:39am On Jul 22, 2013 |
BetaThings: Please provide a link where I can read up on Plateau State declaring itself a christian state. |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by BetaThings: 9:09pm On Jul 22, 2013 |
LagosShia:****** ****** |
Re: Saudi Arabia's Public Worship Policy by BetaThings: 9:11pm On Jul 22, 2013 |
Sissie: Am not joining you in your argument like I said, I don't care about your Shia, Sunni believes and debate. So there's no need to ask him about lie or no lie.I assure you, please believe me, there is no merit in responding. A Shias position on the same matter changes based on the circumstance/audience. Checking past posts (if you have the time outise Ramadan) will confirm my statement You are not immune from the threat I speak of Al kafi is the number 1 ahadeeth book of Shias |
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