Logicboy03:
1) It is impossible to argue that homosexuality is wrong based on logical arguments only.

2) Homosexuality is only clearly condemned in the Old Testament. Still waiting for you to quote the new testament to prove me wrong

3. If you had any formal lessons on the scripture, you would have learnt that some verses on homosexuality in the new testament are in dispute over varying translations

1. A key should fit into a hole. A logical argument, I suppose.

2. I doubt you have ever read a Bible. 1 Corinthians 6:9 Don't you realize that those who do wrong will not inherit the Kingdom of God? Don't fool yourselves. Those who indulge in sexual sin, or who worship idols, or commit adultery, or are male prostitutes, or practice homosexuality,

3. And your point?

Goshen360:

Yes, Judaizer Christians are the very enemies of Christ and his cause - they still want to BIND Christians with BOUNDage that Christ came to set us free from. Those are the real pharisees. I teach scriptures and interpret to balance and leave the rest to the Holy Spirit. Judaizers says we (Christians) must still follow the Mosaic teachings but scriptures says, Moses teachings was not written to Christians but to national Israel and Judaizers ONLY pick what suits them from Moses teachings but Moses teachings says DO ALL OR NONE; TO BREAK ONE IS TO BE GUILTY OF ALL. The entire Moses teachings is SHADOWS AND SHADES, Christ & faith in the finished works of Christ is the SUBSTANCE. Why do Judaizers want to put Christians UNDER BOUNDage which Christ came to set people free and even the national Israel COULD NOT KEEP THE MOSAIC LAW\TEACHINGS?

This is a serious matter you have raised in honesty and this is the only reason I'm responding to this thread. Judaizers and Judaism are the LAW of Moses KEEPERS (but they cannot keep it) that makes null & void the work of Grace and Cross of Christ. To everyone who have come to Christ, Moses and his teachings had come to an END for Christ is THE END OF THE LAW FOR RIGHTEOUSNESS TO EVERYONE WHO BELIEVES. I'm fully going to do like Paul the Apostle - TO TEAR DOWN JUDAISM AND THE JUDAIZERS, separate Judaism from Christianity and present the reality (SUBSTANCE) of our Christ\faith to my generation. Furthermore, I don't mix Old with the New Covenant because I didn't belong to the Old but the new. Judaizers and teachers of the law are those who mix both and thereby come with errors for the new testament Christians. This is because people think the whole Bible was written to everybody, THAT IS WRONG AND FALSE TEACHINGS! Christians are under a NEW and BETTER Covenant and this new covenant IS NOT THE SAME OR CONTINUATION OF THE OLD BUT ARE DIFFERENT AND DISTINCT COMPLETELY.

Interesting.
So, in your opinion, the almighty God gave his people laws to live by, and then the one who was to fulfil the old testament prophecies came and decided that the instructions (I call it instruction, because that is the literal translation of Torah) that God gave were in fact "bondage".

Let me draw more light on this almost-blasphemous statement. In fact, I'll start with the word of God:
"I am the Lord your God who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. You shall have no other gods before Me"

So, according to your narrative, God brought them out of bondage, and gave them Torah (instructions in righteousness, see 2 Tim 3:16), which in itself is bondage.

When you can see obvious contradictions and inconsistencies, it is usually a sign that your view is wrong.
The word of God (John 1:1) is the same. If you are reading the so-called NT and ignoring the old, you are bound to err.

Nobody can keep the law perfectly. But how does that mean you should not walk in it?
Was David saved because he observed the law perfectly? Of course not. David knew the grace of God. Faith, from a Hebrew perspective is not void of action.

James 2:17-24
17 Even so faith, if it hath not works, is dead, being alone. 18 Yea, a man may say, Thou hast faith, and I have works: shew me thy faith without thy works, and I will shew thee my faith by my works. 19 Thou believest that there is one God; thou doest well: the devils also believe, and tremble. 20 But wilt thou know, O vain man, that faith without works is dead? 21 Was not Abraham our father justified by works, when he had offered Isaac his son upon the altar? 22 Seest thou how faith wrought with his works, and by works was faith made perfect? 23 And the scripture was fulfilled which saith, Abraham believed God, and it was imputed unto him for righteousness: and he was called the Friend of God. 24 Ye see then how that by works a man is justified, and not by faith only.

We know from Revelation that those who enter the Kingdom are those who keep God's commandments.
Rev 12:14 "Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city."

The problem with Christianity is that it thinks Yeshua (Jesus), the Jewish Messiah, came and set up some new religion. The word 'church' is not even in the bible. The real word is ekklesia which means "called out ones".
The early church fathers were Jews. The law of Moses was taught to the Jews and gentiles on the sabbath.

Acts 13:42-43 "And when the Jews were gone out of the synagogue, the Gentiles besought that these words might be preached to them the next sabbath. 43 Now when the congregation was broken up, many of the Jews and religious proselytes followed Paul and Barnabas: who, speaking to them, persuaded them to continue in the grace of God.44 And the next sabbath day came almost the whole city together to hear the word of God."

So they were told to continue in the grace of God. Then they met again to hear the books of OT, which you ignore.

Acts 15:21 "For Moses of old time hath in every city them that preach him, being read in the synagogues every sabbath day"

The church condemns incest and some other sins that are clearly outlined in the law. Paul mentions homosexuality, but there is no mention of incest in NT. Where do you get the judgment versus incest from? Torah. So when you making any judgments that come from the law, and you don't follow it yourself, you better get ready to be judged by its full weight.

Grace is not at odds with the Torah. You accept Christ first by faith, and then you may begin walking in His ways and keeping his commandments. That is what James was saying in Acts 15. The circumcision group were teaching that you had to keep the whole law first. Nobody came to tear down Judaism my friend. Christianity needs to give itself an audit.

Logicboy03:


In my own opinion, I believe that Goshen is an example of a half baked preacher. But why is he a Pharisee? I am saying that he is because writes like a Rabbi/teacher with authority and arrogance here on the religion section. Just go through his profile page and look at his topics- most of them railing against "bible Judaizers", "erroneous church teachings" and "mixing of scriptures" but then, how is his own interpretation any better?

Imagine an atheist accurately diagnosing the sickness of Goshen360. I wonder why most Christians in this forum are not seeing this.Let me also add to the list of a pharisee which Goshen360 always display in this forum.
1.A Pharisee always has an unteachable spirit. Jesus used the word "disciple" a lot. The word "disciple" simply means "a learner." Pharisees aren't candidates to be disciples of Christ because they aren't learners.Gosh has shown this attributes on countless occasions here.
2.If they don't like or agree with the truth being presented, they simply discredit the teacher.Frosbel and goshen share this same traits here.
3.Pharisees are only willing to listen to people just like them. Why? Because then they are sure not to have any of their views or opinions challenged.Are you seeing a familiarity here?
4.Pharisees explain away truth by seeking to discredit the teacher.Goshen does this all the time.
5.Pharisees are good talkers but they are not good listeners. Yet, the only we can truly learn is by listening.
6.Pharisees are above learning, so they aren't good listeners. But a godly person has learned the biblical art of listening.
7.A Pharisee is an expert on everything. An expert has ceased the process of learning and has turned from a disciple into a critic.It can happen to any Christian. This is why a little knowledge can be a very dangerous thing. The Pharisee knows just enough to think he knows it all. Goshen has become hard-headed,stubborn, set in his ways, cynical, and sarcastic. He is an expert at everything and quick to give his opinion.
8.Pharisees love to label and divide people up into camps.Calling us judaizers cos we pay tithes.
9.The Pharisees considered themselves staunch defenders of true doctrine."Our own na Jesus gospel of grace,other Christians are legalistic and follow the laws of moses".
10.Pharisees resort to intimidation to win arguments.Frosbel readily comes to mind here. He will be nice to
you as long as you don't cross him or disagree with him,Goshen is now agreeing with him.
11.Pharisees have a very self-inflated opinion of themselves.Goshen, pride goes before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall.
12.Oh!!! The list is endless.May God also help me typing this.
11.

Bidam: Imagine an atheist accurately diagnosing the sickness of Goshen360. I wonder why most Christians in this forum are not seeing this.Let me also add to the list of a pharisee which Goshen360 always display in this forum.
1.A Pharisee always has an unteachable spirit. Jesus used the word "disciple" a lot. The word "disciple" simply means "a learner." Pharisees aren't candidates to be disciples of Christ because they aren't learners.Gosh has shown this attributes on countless occasions here.
2.If they don't like or agree with the truth being presented, they simply discredit the teacher.Frosbel and goshen share this same traits here.
3.Pharisees are only willing to listen to people just like them. Why? Because then they are sure not to have any of their views or opinions challenged.Are you seeing a familiarity here?
4.Pharisees explain away truth by seeking to discredit the teacher.Goshen does this all the time.
5.Pharisees are good talkers but they are not good listeners. Yet, the only we can truly learn is by listening.
6.Pharisees are above learning, so they aren't good listeners. But a godly person has learned the biblical art of listening.
7.A Pharisee is an expert on everything. An expert has ceased the process of learning and has turned from a disciple into a critic.It can happen to any Christian. This is why a little knowledge can be a very dangerous thing. The Pharisee knows just enough to think he knows it all. Goshen has become hard-headed,stubborn, set in his ways, cynical, and sarcastic. He is an expert at everything and quick to give his opinion.
8.Pharisees love to label and divide people up into camps.Calling us judaizers cos we pay tithes.
9.The Pharisees considered themselves staunch defenders of true doctrine."Our own na Jesus gospel of grace,other Christians are legalistic and follow the laws of moses".
10.Pharisees resort to intimidation to win arguments.Frosbel readily comes to mind here. He will be nice to
you as long as you don't cross him or disagree with him,Goshen is now agreeing with him.
11.Pharisees have a very self-inflated opinion of themselves.Goshen, pride goes before destruction and a haughty spirit before a fall.
12.Oh!!! The list is endless.May God also help me typing this.
11.

Haha

This post made my day.


Even a christian can see through Goshen's pharisee methods

Bidam: Imagine an atheist accurately diagnosing the sickness of Goshen360. I wonder why most Christians in this forum are not seeing this.Let me also add to the list of a pharisee which Goshen360 always display in this forum.

hAHHAAHAHAHA, see attack....

Goshen, serves you right. Who tell u make u dey preach against tithe?

musKeeto:
hAHHAAHAHAHA, see attack....

Goshen, serves you right. Who tell u make u dey preach against tithe?

This musKeeto go become Pastor in the end. . . .Holy Spirit go soon arrest you.

musKeeto:
hAHHAAHAHAHA, see attack....

Goshen, serves you right. Who tell u make u dey preach against tithe?

the guy no wan pay tithe...simple

Goshen360:

pharisee laughter

Logicboy03:

pharisee laughter

^ Don't mind them jare, Goshen, God's joy is your strength to combat all the enemies of the gospel. They will keep groaning while U laugh through abundance

@Goshen360 and Bidam and others,
Pls what Logicboy03 needs now is first to be saved and not the definition of pharisee and Judaizers. If he cant accept Jesus, then there is no need talking about any other thing that has to do with bible or Christianity with him. he needs Jesus. Lets stop all these name calling and face the scripture. No Judaizer, no Pharisee. We are all bible students learning in other to be perfected for heaven. If we win arguments here and miss heaven at last, we are of all men most miserable. May God help us all. Amen. Thanks

alexleo: @Goshen360 and Bidam and others,
Pls what Logicboy03 needs now is first to be saved and not the definition of pharisee and Judaizers. If he cant accept Jesus, then there is no need talking about any other thing that has to do with bible or Christianity with him. he needs Jesus. Lets stop all these name calling and face the scripture. No Judaizer, no Pharisee. We are all bible students learning in other to be perfected for heaven. If we win arguments here and miss heaven at last, we are of all men most miserable. May God help us all. Amen. Thanks

Bless you my beloved brother!

I understand Goshen's stance and was once there between the ages of 11-14. That's not to say it's childish , it's importance is as Goshen has rightly said: to edify other believers.

In my preteen to early teens I immersed myself whole in Christianity and its theological foundations through the books my Dad bought for his Bible college studies. Um, I don't bother over the theology for now, I'm more concerned with 'vain philosophy', science and other religions and I must say, I'm learning a lot and seeing that some concepts such as Trinity and monotheism aren't entirely unique to Christianity and in fact, Christianity owes a lot to pagan thought which prevailed in the Meditterenean.

Finally, I think some stances atheism, Christianity, Islam etc aren't deeply understood by some adherents (even faithful ones), especially if they were indoctrinated without exposure to other religions or philosophies (hence I agree with Dennet's proposal that religions be taught to kids). Some may simply relate with a religion on a superficial level (and may not prioritize to deeply research its history). Nuff said.

Uyi Iredia: I understand Goshen's stance and was once there between the ages of 11-14. That's not to say it's childish , it's importance is as Goshen has rightly said: to edify other believers.

In my preteen to early teens I immersed myself whole in Christianity and its theological foundations through the books my Dad bought for his Bible college studies. Um, I don't bother over the theology for now, I'm more concerned with 'vain philosophy', science and other religions and I must say, I'm learning a lot and seeing that some concepts such as Trinity and monotheism aren't entirely unique to Christianity and in fact, Christianity owes a lot to pagan thought which prevailed in the Meditterenean.

Finally, I think some stances atheism, Christianity, Islam etc aren't deeply understood by some adherents (even faithful ones), especially if they were indoctrinated without exposure to other religions or philosophies (hence I agree with Dennet's proposal that religions be taught to kids). Some may simply relate with a religion on a superficial level (and may not prioritize to deeply research its history). Nuff said.

^^^^
This is what happens when an empty barrel tries to pass of as an elite intellectual.

Guy, there is no relevance in your post. Try again

Uyi Iredia: I understand Goshen's stance and was once there between the ages of 11-14. That's not to say it's childish , it's importance is as Goshen has rightly said: to edify other believers.

In my preteen to early teens I immersed myself whole in Christianity and its theological foundations through the books my Dad bought for his Bible college studies. Um, I don't bother over the theology for now, I'm more concerned with 'vain philosophy', science and other religions and I must say, I'm learning a lot and seeing that some concepts such as Trinity and monotheism aren't entirely unique to Christianity and in fact, Christianity owes a lot to pagan thought which prevailed in the Meditterenean.

Finally, I think some stances atheism, Christianity, Islam etc aren't deeply understood by some adherents (even faithful ones), especially if they were indoctrinated without exposure to other religions or philosophies (hence I agree with Dennet's proposal that religions be taught to kids). Some may simply relate with a religion on a superficial level (and may not prioritize to deeply research its history). Nuff said.

^
On the bolded, true.