amor4ce: I got my understanding of the Hamitic Hypothesis from

The Hamitic Hypothesis; Its Origin and Functions in Time Perspective. Edith R. Sanders. The Journal of African History, Vol. 10, No. 4 (1969), pp. 521-532.

Tony Spike, thanks for the links. I will try and see what I can learn from them.

MetaPhysical, my response to your mail seems to have been blocked, so no further communication from me till further notice.

I now leave this thread and nairaland, partly to concentrate more on my blog and the re-drafting of that yoruba history article.

Im sorry amor4ce. I will investigate that and respond to you.

Has anyone found the meaning of OREGUN in Yoruba for me yet?
By the way, the questions posed by prexios, metaphysical and 9jacrip remains unanswered still? This thread must not die off and should not be promoted to the front page yet also.

Tony Spike: Has anyone found the meaning of OREGUN in Yoruba for me yet?
By the way, the questions posed by prexios, metaphysical and 9jacrip remains unanswered still? This thread must not die off and should not be promoted to the front page yet also.

hey my good people,
I was banned for some time now. Thank God its Friday!
I'm gracious to God for the great development that the
thread has witnessed.

We are here sharing facts and shaping what we know.

May the almighty God of all Sufficiency supply light to
all that is beclouded on our path., In Jesus' Name. Amen.

Tony spike,

Observe that the term Oregun contains two syllables, namely 'Ore' and 'Ogun'.

What that mean is that if by chance there is any individual called Ore, his
surname would be Ogun. In that respect, Ore is a child of Ogun.

You starts to wander, who was Ore? Well Yoruba will tell you, "Akii fomo Ore B'ore."
that means we do not sacrifice a child of Ore to Ore. Then Ore was one of the Orisha of
the ancient Yoruba.

Try not to disconnect a word from its body, if not, the interpretation you get will derail.
what i mean by this is that do not treat Ore in isolation of Ogun, if you are working on say oregun.

If your codice is ultimately from Agboniregun (i often take this as Agbonmiregun, i do not know if any is wong)
then you have to deal with a sentence phrase meaning "Agbon niran egun." this simply means "the wise one of Egun's generation."

What does this mean? it is simply talking about a renown sage of Egun generation. then the ancient Yoruba used Egun as timeline, that Agbon niran Egun was a sage who was a contemporary of Egun. Egun could be Dahomeans ancestor or better still, the Yoruba ancestor, how so?

what do the Yoruba tradition claim to be the source of Yoruba ancestors? Orun. Where were the Egun (Maskers) said to have come from? Orun. what connects Egun with Agboniregun: the rhyme "Egun" what other thing? Ara Orun KIkin[egun] [i]Orun[/i]mila...OKIKIN[tii meyin erin-in fon].

There is ancient network of underground perfection in Yoruba tradition, and so, a lot must be prooved to proof one word right. A lot also must be consulted to arrive at a meaning that is not contrary to Yoruba historical corpus. More so, you must not isolate for this reason. Egun was an historical character in Yoruba history.it is the perfection of the Oje clan of the ancient Yoruba.

Ultimately, Ore is from Ore-friend, as you have it in (onife) Abure.
Ore needs that you find the other synonyms, so you can get some hidden meanings that will point you to further resources. Ore could mean cutter, ada, age, Aja, Ola and so on. Then you also need the antonym, Ota. it will tell you that maybe what you have as pointer is a feedback to certain personality.

Hope to hear from you soon.

Hey metaphysical,

I have read your insights and I thank God you finally subscribed to open society at last
You have wealth of information just like the rest of us, so why disguise that before? I'm only blushing.

Your questions are indeed far sighted and resourceful, we need not impose some story on ourselves just to catch on with some fads and facts that are not there, but only a figment of our imaginations.

MetaPhysical:

This contact between Yoruba and Egypt/Canaan is firm, the Greek presence is only a collateral and irrelevant in our culture, unless it can be proven that we had a direct contact and inter-relationship with them which resulted in a high scale of cultural exchange.

The challenge we all face, given our different point of views, is:

1. Do we agree that a proto-cultural relationship exist identifying Egypt/Canaan with Yoruba?

2. Was that relationship domestic or was it foreign?

3. If it was foreign then what were the modals for it and what were the trade routes?

4. If it was domestic, then where was the origin abode and why the separation?

You have said whats on my mind anyway

My answers

1. Yes. But the Yoruba did not hold any particular history or a link with any culture as essential commodity, hence we are left with the burden of proof. meanwhile, they only left us with clues here and there. Isaiah finally said it all, "precept upon precept, line upon line here a little, there a little." Isaiah 28.

I believe Isaiah has a lot of information about Yoruba origin and he was probably saying that precept or codices will be upon codices, in the Bible a little and with the migrants a little. "The other tongue" he refer to is parable, hence i said the parable of the prodigal son is a continuation of "seeking the lost sheep" that started with Isaiah till the Messiah.

2. The answer is both, they do not restrict people in time of old and they all help or destroy one another as we do today. In peace, they sojourn, but when there is war, they fled for the next place or fight to prove loyalty to their hosts.

3. Well the Nubia was well known to the ancient world. The Greek historian, Herodotus, the father of history to the west was actually familiar with Nubia. Plato also escaped from Athens after the killing of Socrates, and he imbibed the sacred traditions of Egypt and other lands he visited as he became inspired back home to teach his followers in his Academy.

4. As for the position i hold, i am working on an eBook that i will soon made available to all. In it i will try to reveal how i felt the migration code in the scripture i once shared was activated. Please be ready to pay for it, so i could continue anyway, or so i could pay for 15 years of research on this. But i promise it would be very helpful to any researcher.

MetaPhysical:

Done.

If we have contributors who understand other WesternEuropean languages beside English it would help. Not only for explaining the etymology of these words but also that the Portuguese had written accounts of their contact with Yoruba before England did. Going through their archives might help clarify on a lot of things.

That's right.

I think one Bonaventure painted a lovely colour of the Yoruba back then in the 17th century or so, Dr. Robin Law quoted the french version of this in either 'source of Yoruba history' or so, (i will confirm my source soon) He pointed out that "Les Ayaux Forment et peole Brave..." bla bla bla. Try Google 1776 book of Abbé Lievain Bonaventure.

I think this got to the west and was the very reason the west had always been interested in Yoruba or the African people the more. More so, maybe there is something about "Prester John" that really has something to do with west Africa. This might sound crazy, but I personally hold the believe that the Gospel writer John has Yoruba in mind writing 2nd John.

Samuel Johnson sees Yoruba as practicing Coptic Christianity, he then spot Ela with Jesus and Moremi with Mary: this seems to have silently infuriated Bolaji Idowu, who in his book "Olódùmarè: God in Yoruba belief" - E. Bọlaji Idowu - admonish one to lay claim to Hebrew if Yoruba tradition seems to go in that direction. He wont lay hold on such claim as a scholar, but that's what we enjoy as faceless people here on nairaland.

Maybe he is pissed-off at Johnson who at one point was saying Yoruba fled from mecca for idolatry, and at another point, he is spotting Yoruba with Coptic Christians, speaking from both side of the mouth, sort of. what was he afraid of? why is he trying to be accepted by the west? if he wish, he could claim that Yoruba were practicing Judaism in Arabia and were expelled, but he preferred the idolatry perspective that he has problem with as a christian, and Lamurudu came to the mix.

But he put Lamurudu, Buremo, (Nimrod, Abraham: contemporaries from Islamic school of thought) in the same line of tradition as Prophet Muhammed and the prophet as a contemporary of Oduduwa. that is quite interesting: Oduduwa was a contemporary of Buremo and the prophet of Islam in that mix. is it a Yoruba story or an Arabic night story? What is made known is interesting, what is concealed is quite revealing, especially as to the Yoruba migration tradition. meanwhile the book is excellent. Read more here

http://archive.org/stream/historyofyorubas00john/historyofyorubas00john_djvu.txt

9jacrip:
Very funny thread.

What is with connecting Yoruba history with Biblical tales.Biblical accounts-some of which have been thrown off as a ruse after several studies and majority cannot be empirically proven to have really happened?

I think it is quite belittling of the Yoruba race to connect Yoruba names with characters who supposedly existed in the middle east.


It is a fruitless and a never ending circle to keep trying to weld Yoruba history to foreign elements when the periodization and cultural differences have already flawed the intention. If it is a must to re-write history, please look inward or your immediate environment as far as geographical factor goes, also seek to consult Ifa for proper facts/pointers which you can then interpret.

The school of thought which sought to marry Yoruba/ile-ife and middle east has long been dead. Historians don't look towards that direction and it has become an abomination to do such in the world of Yoruba Historians.

On a final note, I enjoyed reading the discourse about Ado/Edo/Ekiti, at least it is inward and Moses or Cain didn't contribute to it this time. It flamed up questions I'll ask my uncles when I visit home again. I'll also like to post links too as time goes on.

That's a good observation to start with.

The bible is a fiction, you will say, but you will patronize paleontological and evolutionary tales as better than the scripture of truth. You ridicule and write-off what countless numbers of people order their lives with with pleasure and you did not put anything in place as replacement. What kind of Yoruba man are you?

What will you make of the Pittsburgh man? was it an invention or ruse? So evolution is the way to go and maybe human life really started at Serrangathi or igbo eleru.

Connecting Yoruba tales to the bible

Lets assume that you are a literary person and you write the bible, then in one particular page you mention "Isaac and his twins saga." and someone else came up with something similar to your intellectual projections in form of Isokun. compare the closeness of the two names.

As a responsible writer, it behooves on you to find out how the other person came up with the similar version, lest you ignore it and the person get away with it and make his version of your intellectual product overshadow yours that is the original, sort of. do you get it?

If his work is so close to yours, it can inspire competition in which case someone comes from nowhere and use your resources to steal your goodwill or incentives that should naturally be yours. You can file for plagiarism, copyright or patent infringement against the person after due diligence.

the due diligence is finding what the other person know and how the offender came in in the first place. you look for loopholes. connecting bible to Yoruba history is looking at the similarity that the Yoruba traditions have with the holy bible that has been around for countless centuries.

9jacrip:
Very funny thread.

It is an unacceptable fraud to coin and conjure up interpretations of Yoruba terms to give some validation of a possible migration from Mecca or wherever when the remains of the earliest man is said to have been found in Ethiopia and another at Igbo-Eleru? So Africans who occupied the continent emigrated to Middle East then migrated back?

Please specify wherever you see "coin and conjure,". Because you believe that people evolve from Africa does not make me buy your story, start your thread and lets see how far your believe go. People have gut instincts, you can reinvent stories, but you can not force people to buy your "ultra-modern evolution" in place of what their tradition says.

The Yoruba tradition claimed they came from Orun, that means they were migrants, but you seems to know better, they evolve, and so the Yoruba were autochthonous people. Maybe Igbo Eleru should become the Ile ife of evolution tradition.

9jacrip:
The school of thought which sought to marry Yoruba/ile-ife and middle east has long been dead. Historians don't look towards that direction and it has become an abomination to do such in the world of Yoruba Historians.

In that respect, the outcome of any historical engagement in respect to Yoruba history is no longer a product of research into the unknown or the past that elude all of us, but a predetermined revisionary engagement and sacred exercise to purge history of abominations, so that the more holy script of historical records can come from where they were kept.

How long shall we wait to have this sacred holy history? Its an aberration to think like that in historical class, you should learn and make intelligent contributions.

9jacrip: In addition, I read a post where someone said they don't have to be part of an occult to learn Yoruba history. Let me say that person will forever remain an ogberi to his own ancestral history.

In order to learn core details of Yoruba history (migration,emigration & settlements, dramatis persona who are now deities) one has to be an initiate into some order - this is a fact.

While writing a research, I did oral interviews and used several texts/published journals but on going home and getting to acquaint myself with 'tradition' it became glaring many things I got in oral and those texts were wrong!

You don't have to 'join' but at least familiarize yourselves with people who are in initiates, it'll go a long way.

Thanks so much for the advise.

Whose report will you believe?

Produce what you must produce from whatever source you think, if it is the truth, it will stand the test of time, if it is a lie, go and get it from whatever grave coven you like, you will either bring out nothing or it wont work. you will likely have another distractions to deal with through the magic of empathy. I don't use this to stop you from finding your tools from any source you are comfortable with.

My opinion is this, if you believe so much in the hard answer to a hard problem, you are a strong willed person. but i think sometimes, simple answers will do. that means sometimes a lot of patience. The Yoruba greatly encouraged this: "Suuru sokuta jina" that is, "patience will eventually melt a rock" I am a Yoruba man, and I understood Yoruba.

If you have a big problem in your hand, you can look for big solution. But if your solution is by any way a mistake, it becomes a "Frankenstein monster" that belittle your primary problem and becomes another problem you are never aware of before, a law of unintended consequences you will say. My rule is, "know what you want, be patient enough and you may just get it. Surprises happens and life can just give us what we want.

I don't need to struggle for what i am doing now anyway, i am from the root of what i am doing, its an heirloom thing, i am from "Owun Olowonron" [awon olowo-orin: handlers [of the customs] of the migrants]I don't have to be initiated, I am to have the initiative. I don't have to be right, i am to make intelligent contributions. I believe it is easy if you think it is, it is what you think it is. It is as a man thinketh.

I believe in God, he can make you have such an insight that you never think exist or attainable. it happens to those that will not look for shortcuts. The man Thomas Edison has thousands of patents and inventions to his name, which cult did he belong to? Africa, Africa, everything is black power, it never solve any problem for hundreds of century but to hold back.

Now, there you said it, "go to the occult, look for answers." if it is there why are we still searching, is it serving anyone's interest in the dark? Is it a form of science or where all the unknown answers to human problems can be sourced? then the occults have had answers to all human aches and details of research already? Kindly pardon me if i am insulting your civic right.

Decades ago, some well meaning Nigerians started something like sorority in tertiary institution, you know what that became in our hands at institutions of learning, when youthful exuberance mix with the magic of power. I don't know if the first set of people to institute the sorority envisioned this or will stand behind their brainchild today. That's something, you can advice, but thanks.

Of course, i am an Ogberi:
i am a seeker after evidence.
and that is what Ogberi means.

But i was born and named Awokunle,
That is, "a house filled with priests."
Aigbofa laa woke, ifa kan o si ni para.

9jacrip: EGYPT YORUBA
1. Wu (rise) Wu (rise)
2. Ausa (Osiris, father of the gods) Ausa (father)
3. Ere (python/ Serpent) Ere (Python / Serpent)
4. Horise (a great god) Orise (a great god)
5. Sen (group of worshippers) Sen ( to worship)
6. Ged (to chant0 Igede (a chant)
7. Ta (sell / offer) Ta (sell/offer)
8. Sueg (a fool) Suegbe (a fool)
9. On ( living person) One ( living person)
10. Kum (a club) Kumo( a club)
11. Enru (fear / terrible) Eru (fear / terrible
12. Kun / qun (brave man) Ekun (title of a brave man)
13. Win (to be) Wino (to be)
14. Odonit (festival) Odon (festival)
15. Ma or mi (to breath) Mi. (to breathe)
16. Tebu (a town) Tebu (a town)
17. Adumu (a water god) Adumu (a water god)
18. Khu (to kill) Ku (die)
19. Rekha (knowledge} Larikha (knowledge)
20 Hika (evil) Ika (evil)
21 Mhebi (humble) Mebi, humble to ones family
22 Sata (perfect) Santan (perfect)
23 Unas (lake of fire) Una (fire)
24 Tan (complete) Tan (complete)
25 Beru (force of emotion) Beru (fear)
26 Em (smell) Emi (smell)
27 Pa (open) Pa (break open)
28 Bi (to become) Bi (to give birth, to become)
29 Hepi (a water god) Ipi (a water god)
30 Sami (water god) Sami (a water god)
31 Osiri (a water god) Oshiri (a water god)
32 Heqet – Re (frog deity) Ekere (the frog)
33 Feh (to go away) Feh (to blow away)
34 Kot (build) Ko (build)
35 Kot (boat) Oko (boat)
36 Omi (water) Omi (water)
37 Ra (time) Ira (time)
38 Oni (title of Osiris) Oni (title of the king of Ife)
39 Budo (dwelling place) Budo (dwelling place)
40 Dudu (black image of Osiris) Dudu (black person)
41 Un (living person) Una (living person)
42 Ra (possess) Ra (possess/buy)
43 Beka (pray/confess) Be or ka (to pray or confess)
44 Po (many) Po (many/cheap)
45 Horuw (head) middle Egyptian Oruwo (head) (Ijebu)
46 Min (a god) Emin (spirit)
47 Ash (invocation) Ashe (invocation)
48 Aru (mouth) Arun (mouth ) Ilaje
49 Do (river) Odo (river)
50 Do (settlement) Udo (settlement)
51 Shekiri (water god) Shekiri (a water god)
52 Bu (a place) Bu ,a place
53 Khepara (beetle Akpakara (beetle)
54 No (a water god Eno (a water god)
55 Ra -Shu (light after darkness Uran-shu (the light of the moon
56 Run-ka (spirit name) Oruko (name)
57 Deb/dib to pierce Dibi (to pierce)
58 Maat (goddess of justice Mate (goddess of justice)
59 Aru (rise) Ru (rise up)
60 Fa (carry) Fa (pull)
61 Kaf (pluck) Ka (pluck)
62 Bu bi (evil place) Bubi (evil place)
63 In- n (negation In-n (negation)
64 Iset (a water god) Ise (a water god)
65 Shabu (watcher) Ashonbo (watcher)
66 Semati (door keeper) Sema (lock/shut the door)
67 Khenti amenti (big words of Osiris Yenti – yenti (big, very big)
68 Ma (to know) Ma (to know)
69 Bebi, a son of osiris) Ube, a god
70 Tchatcha chief (they examined the death to see if they tricked tsatsa (a game of tricks, gambling )
71 Ren( animal foot) Ren (to walk)
72 Ka (rest) Ka (rest/tired)
73 Mu (water) Mu (drink water)
74 Abi (against) Ubi (against / impediment)
75 Reti (to beseech) Retin (to listen)
76 Hir (praise) Yiri (praise)
77 Ta(spread out) Ta (spread out)
78 Kurud (round) Kurudu (round)
79 Ak – male Ako (male)
80 Se – to create Se (to create)
81 Hoo (rejoice) Yo (rejoice)
82 Kamwr (black) Kuru (extremely black
83 Omitjener (deep water) Omijen (deep water)
84 Nen, the primeval water mother) Nene (mother
85 Ta (land) Ita (land junction)
86 Horiwo (head) Oriwo (head)
87 Ro (talk) Ro (to think)
88 Kurubu (round) Kurubu (deep and round)
89 Penka (divide) Kpen (divide)
90 Ma-su (to mould) Ma or su (to mould)
91 Osa (time) Osa (time)
92 Osa (tide) Osa ( tide)
93 Fare (wrap) Fari (wrap)
94 Kom (complete) Kon (complete)
95 Edjo (cobra) Edjo (cobra)
96 Didi (red fruit) Diden (red)
97 Ba (soul) Oba (king) soul of a people
98 Ke (hill) Oke( hill
99 Anubis (evil deity) Onubi (evil person)
100 Kan (one: Middle Egyptian) Okan one)
101 Nam (water god) Inama (water god)

The words above are used to show that most Yoruban words are identical to the ancient Egyptian.


http://www.raceandhistory.com/cgi-bin/forum/webbbs_config.pl/noframes/read/2139

^^^^ Please read that link, people.

Is this your bedrock of Yoruba history? A story written by people who write about Yoruba ancestry without any mention of the ancestors own oral resource such as Ifa? How long will you want to scrape the head behind the man with the head? If you want to write Yoruba history or believe one, it should find somewhere to quote Ifa tradition.

Yoruba ancestors were educated. they gave you their history and it served Yoruba as religious corpus, if you want to write about this ancient people, don't you suppose to make their voice to be heard? If that is not your obligation or orientation, then you are in it to prove your opinion right.

You are free anyway, a lotof people were doing this daily. But you have not contributed anything, you have only share a link. Is that all you know? what have you discover by yourself on Yoruba History all this while? the above link is just another apocryphal that is at all the place online, make your voice to be heard, give a fresh insight of your own, don't share the apocryphal.

Prexios welcome back. I wonder what you wrote that earned you a ban.


How much do you know about Yoruba totems?

Here are four I know, need to get others. Explain their roots and add more if you have recollections.

Erin - elephant - the totem of royal dynasties.
Ekun - leopard - the totem of Aare.
Agbo - ramhead - the totem of Esos (cavalry).
Agbon - wasp - the totem of infantry warriors.

Tony, i have no clue what OREGUN mean but I believe it shares word signature with Origin.

I use root letters to disassemble words when i need meaning and application. In this case the root will be RGN.

In Yoruba alphabets, what does Ra, Gi, Ni, mean? Nothing! We have alphabets whose letters are very opaque.

Lettrrs of alphabets should have life and energy, they represent sound and emotion coming out of the solar plexus. Symbolically this is tied to crucifixion but thats a discussion for some other day.

Our alphabets are devoid of spirit. Perharps we will uncover something through these discussions.

prexios:

Is this your bedrock of Yoruba history? A story written by people who write about Yoruba ancestry without any mention of the ancestors own oral resource such as Ifa? How long will you want to scrape the head behind the man with the head? If you want to write Yoruba history or believe one, it should find somewhere to quote Ifa tradition.

Yoruba ancestors were educated. they gave you their history and it served Yoruba as religious corpus, if you want to write about this ancient people, don't you suppose to make their voice to be heard? If that is not your obligation or orientation, then you are in it to prove your opinion right.

You are free anyway, a lotof people were doing this daily. But you have not contributed anything, you have only share a link. Is that all you know? what have you discover by yourself on Yoruba History all this while? the above link is just another apocryphal that is at all the place online, make your voice to be heard, give a fresh insight of your own, don't share the apocryphal.

Bro, calm down.
I posted that in reference to someone who made a comment about Egypt/Yoruba so I posted that hoping the person expatiates but no response from the person.

9jacrip:

Bro, calm down.
I posted that in reference to someone who made a comment about Egypt/Yoruba so I posted that hoping the person expatiates but no response from the person.

Aright brother, i understand.

i have given myself the role of a watchdog sort of. i wish that we can have a really sincere thread and i take it as a privilege to be involved. i wont attack unnecessarily, i have my excesses, but it is because with one sweep you bring down the Bible we often use as leverage. Please pardon my excess.

What am i doing here without kindred spirits like you on this thread? I value everyone just as i value myself. never mind the fact that i am overprotective.

MetaPhysical: Prexios welcome back. I wonder what you wrote that earned you a ban.


How much do you know about Yoruba totems?

Here are four I know, need to get others. Explain their roots and add more if you have recollections.

Erin - elephant - the totem of royal dynasties.
Ekun - leopard - the totem of Aare.
Agbo - ramhead - the totem of Esos (cavalry).
Agbon - wasp - the totem of infantry warriors.

hey dear brother,

I'm happy to have a close one with you, i was banned because i have gotten emotional again, i have been calling people names and thank God i was banned, i could sleep over my anger and a part of it dissipate, but not all. i was fighting 9jacrip few days ago. thank God we have reconciled. We have a brother, the number increases. You will have a large crowd when the time for your last "offline" proposition comes.

As to the totem thing, you are very right about it, hence said we are thinking likewise.

Erin is a function of migration, and it sands for the regal position of the emigrants.

Ekun is for the tribe whose totem is the leopard. But you and i know that the same word idemtifies the lion with the Yoruba. i wish that amo4ce could see i intended him to see Ejigbo-mekun as "two search parties of omo-ekun," that is, lion whelp. But then he has left for "Egypt." I wish he will drop his disdain for those called the Oyinbo. he's really offended.

Agbo as the totem of the Esos is a beautiful one. i want you to hold on to it, it is telling you that Agbo to the ancient yorubas has to do with Igbo, quest. Agbo is the seeker. You will not understand it that way except you are from Awori. it is the Aworis that says "kilomi-gbo?" where other Yorubas would say "Kilo nwa?" That tells me that Agbo is a noun form of Igbo or Owa. Whats the title of the Ijesha king again? What has that got to do with Esho?

Now the Egba praisepoem would say,
Ologini lo romo-ekun o, awa rawa ri rawa!

every place or historical word have something to offer us in Yoruba history, therefore, if we want the "popular believe" to order our steps, we limit ourselves and repeat what everyone already know. i don't think we are growing like that, but comparing ideas we grow and form common strands that may stand the test of time.

Now that we have the word Igbo, what does that tell us about our nearest neighbour to the east? if we can look to a distance in the cradle crescent to point and claim, what shall we do with clearer information like this? One info i came across sometimes ago declared that the Igbo in Ife tradition should not be mistaken for the Eastern people by that name. that's the scholar's limits. happy weekend bros.

MetaPhysical: Tony, i have no clue what OREGUN mean but I believe it shares word signature with Origin.

I use root letters to disassemble words when i need meaning and application. In this case the root will be RGN.

In Yoruba alphabets, what does Ra, Gi, Ni, mean? Nothing! We have alphabets whose letters are very opaque.

Lettrrs of alphabets should have life and energy, they represent sound and emotion coming out of the solar plexus. Symbolically this is tied to crucifixion but thats a discussion for some other day.

Our alphabets are devoid of spirit. Perharps we will uncover something through these discussions.

i feel your Ascension, big bros.
let me make some terrestrial guesses, as usual, drawing inspirations from your resource:
origin seems to me like ori -source and gin-sharp. i don't want to make a guess because that is sort of accessorized. could it be an inflection? Gin is like ari-gin-ni, he sees sharply, arin-gin-ni, he walk sharply. then arin-gin-ni gin-ni woja: he walk briskly to the market.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MLhtwvvBmBU

9jacrip:

Bro, calm down.
I posted that in reference to someone who made a comment about Egypt/Yoruba so I posted that hoping the person expatiates but no response from the person.

Hi 9jacrip--I'm just dropping by to tell you that this discussion was started and maintained by fake IDs ( probably from a notorious ethnic group consumed by hate and jealousy for everything Yoruba ). The majority of participants in this thread aren't Yoruba and you've quite rightly spotted that this nonsense about Egyptian origins and biblical roots for Yoruba culture is meaningless. You're wasting your time trying to have a decent discussion with fraudsters, pretenders and people who are ashamed of their own ethnicity.

I hope you'll save yourself the trouble of participating in their hateful nonsense. Their only goal, as posters like Gbawe and Katsumoto point out in other discussions, is to try and ridicule Yoruba culture and history out of their inferiority complex about their own backgrounds. You can look through all the discussions here and see which posters have made useful contributions to cultural discussions and which ones spend their time here talking about inane nonsense. Some well-meaning posters will be drawn into this charade because they haven't taken the time to find out who they're talking to and dealing with. Don't encourage the fraudsters with no pride or interest in their own culture or history.

I'd expect them to come in and deny or deflect the obvious truth but you should keep this in mind when reading their nonsense in the future. Writing in English doesn't make you an Englishman, and proposing stupid, nonsensical etymologies for Yoruba words certainly doesn't make you a Yoruba person either.

TerraCotta:

Hi 9jacrip--I'm just dropping by to tell you that this discussion was started and maintained by fake IDs ( probably from a notorious ethnic group consumed by hate and jealousy for everything Yoruba ). The majority of participants in this thread aren't Yoruba and you've quite rightly spotted that this nonsense about Egyptian origins and biblical roots for Yoruba culture is meaningless. You're wasting your time trying to have a decent discussion with fraudsters, pretenders and people who are ashamed of their own ethnicity.

I hope you'll save yourself the trouble of participating in their hateful nonsense. Their only goal, as posters like Gbawe and Katsumoto point out in other discussions, is to try and ridicule Yoruba culture and history out of their inferiority complex about their own backgrounds. You can look through all the discussions here and see which posters have made useful contributions to cultural discussions and which ones spend their time here talking about inane nonsense. Some well-meaning posters will be drawn into this charade because they haven't taken the time to find out who they're talking to and dealing with. Don't encourage the fraudsters with no pride or interest in their own culture or history.

I'd expect them to come in and deny or deflect the obvious truth but you should keep this in mind when reading their nonsense in the future. Writing in English doesn't make you an Englishman, and proposing stupid, nonsensical etymologies for Yoruba words certainly doesn't make you a Yoruba person either.

PLS WATCH THIS !!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCkhZZP3HfQ



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg8yQmfQsyc

PeterKbaba:

PLS WATCH THIS !!!!


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FCkhZZP3HfQ



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg8yQmfQsyc

Thanks, Peter. I've watched the first video with Prof. Babatunde Lawal (a brilliant scholar hose articles I've quoted on Nairaland in the past) and I totally endorse it. Those are the sorts of discussions about Yoruba cultural history that we should all be involved with. Keep doing what you're doing and don't give the fraudsters a day of rest

TerraCotta:

Thanks, Peter. I've watched the first video with Prof. Babatunde Lawal (a brilliant scholar hose articles I've quoted on Nairaland in the past) and I totally endorse it. Those are the sorts of discussions about Yoruba cultural history that we should all be involved with. Keep doing what you're doing and don't give the fraudsters a day of rest

Thanks... I dont seem to understand why they are always in our business

[b]I feel civilization started from ife, they moved outward through egypt established similar states / region names like Nineveh (ile ife) etc, they were conquered first and people moved into Egypt (africa), that wasnt enough for this demon in human skin, they came after us in Egypt, then we moved back to the source.. Ife

Both the Europeans and Arabs know about our history, that is why the Palestinians and Israelis are both fighting over Israel... Arabs conquered the blacks out of that territory and the Israelis later came in prepared and conquered them.

In those days, once they conquered black territory, the take over the culture, language everything and act as if it theirs. They will first come in peace, acting as if they want to learn, learn everything totally, have it all written down like students , go back to their territory, strategize on how they will come in and conquer and inherit what is not theirs...

That is one of the reason they wrote the bible in different languages, came in to West Africa, clean up our memory and reprogram our memory with their virus teaching...

Both the Arabs and the Europeans have this information, but cnt let it out..

If I may ask, do you need to write a book to remember your parents "No"
You only write a book concerning something you learnt and dont want to forget...
The bible was written by the europeans, thats why they call it His-Story / Our-story
This whites both the Arabs and Europeans are the fallen angels, you only wonder why they hate blacks so much, Angels in Heaven are all blacks, remember that must curses in the bible on man skin, what turning the skin white.... this Demons, they have information we dont, due to slavery and colonization..[/b]

@ terracotta

you're entitled to your views, but if something keeps popping up during field studies, its worth looking into, since there's likely a reason why.

i went through some of your posts and found this:

TerraCotta:


I edited to add an example: The word "ubi" in Latin means "where". In standard Yoruba, people would say "ibi" for the same purpose. In Eastern Yoruba dialects, they'd use the exact same word as Latin: "ubi".

same type of thing which was pointed out earlier on the thread.

Does this mean that Latin and Yoruba have the same origins or belong to the same language family?

no, it does not mean that.

yorubas remain african.

however, if too many words keep reoccurring in both languages with surprising frequency and having the same meaning when translated, then it's worth looking into, imo.

There's obviously a coincidental similarity but in the absence of other evidence of exchanges--conquest, contact, intermarriage, common roots--it's likely to just be a coincidence that Latin and Yoruba have similar words.

i think the question of contact was discussed on another thread last year.

as per coincidence, that's possible, but the coincidences seem to be increasing in number.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Tg8yQmfQsyc

still on this particular word you pulled up:

TerraCotta:

I edited to add an example: The word "ubi" in Latin means "where". In standard Yoruba, people would say "ibi" for the same purpose. In Eastern Yoruba dialects, they'd use the exact same word as Latin: "ubi".

i did a search and found other similarities.

qua and quo in latin means which.

ka in yoruba [particularly eastern yoruba] is what, which or where.


ibi in latin means there. Ibi in yoruba means there, or somewhere.



whats your opinion about this?

Tony Spike: @ Metaphysical, i just cross-referenced these words. Kindly add them to your list

Oro (Latin) - speak, pray
oro (Yoruba) - words, say


ila (Latin) - to bring about division
ila (Yoruba) - to divide

re-referencing these once again,

Oro [latin], means speak

Oro in yoruba means words

tpia@:



re-referencing these once again,

Oro [latin], means speak

Oro in yoruba means words

By the way, everyone is entitled to his/her opinion on Yoruba history & origins. The old school of thought has failed in many ways since it has failed to answer many arising questions. As far as I am concerned, there are far too many clues to discard our discussions here as fake, stunted and unrealistic. On the proliferation of fake IDs, it's just another wild guess. At least, I know metaphysical is Yoruba, just as I am. I won't go any further to prove my roots or who I am on this faceless forum.

@Tpia, could you please give me the link to Terracotta's earlier discussion on the Latin words? Thanks

prexios:

hey dear brother,

As to the totem thing, you are very right about it, hence said we are thinking likewise.

Erin is a function of migration, and it sands for the regal position of the emigrants.

Wow!! This is a hook into the history of Yoruba dynasties. Ive never before heard anyone give it such a concise and complete sense.

Ekun is for the tribe whose totem is the leopard. But you and i know that the same word idemtifies the lion with the Yoruba. i wish that amo4ce could see i intended him to see Ejigbo-mekun as "two search parties of omo-ekun," that is, lion whelp. But then he has left for "Egypt." I wish he will drop his disdain for those called the Oyinbo. he's really offended.

I thought Kiniun is the formal identity for Lion.

Agbo as the totem of the Esos is a beautiful one. i want you to hold on to it, it is telling you that Agbo to the ancient yorubas has to do with Igbo, quest. Agbo is the seeker. You will not understand it that way except you are from Awori. it is the Aworis that says "kilomi-gbo?" where other Yorubas would say "Kilo nwa?" That tells me that Agbo is a noun form of Igbo or Owa. Whats the title of the Ijesha king again? What has that got to do with Esho?

Now the Egba praisepoem would say,
Ologini lo romo-ekun o, awa rawa ri rawa!

We have to do more study on the Agbo. Here is some of what I have read here in Nairaland, that:

1. The field commander of the Esos is Aare. The Eso totem (Orile) is ramhead. So the totem authority is Aare himself.

2. In Roman mythologies, Ares or Aries is symbolized by a ramhead.

So given what you said, against this theory of a connection between Aare/Aries, I ask for more clarification.


On the Ijesha, I thought their totem is Okin - lovebird. Part of the oriki for Onibokun include a song about Okin.

"Okin lo lori eye igbee, O kaare.
Iwo lo lori omo yeye re aiye a ye o."

The lovebird is the most beautiful bird in the wilderness, You are praiseworthy.
You are the leader of your lineage may you prosper.

every place or historical word have something to offer us in Yoruba history, therefore, if we want the "popular believe" to order our steps, we limit ourselves and repeat what everyone already know. i don't think we are growing like that, but comparing ideas we grow and form common strands that may stand the test of time.

Now that we have the word Igbo, what does that tell us about our nearest neighbour to the east? if we can look to a distance in the cradle crescent to point and claim, what shall we do with clearer information like this? One info i came across sometimes ago declared that the Igbo in Ife tradition should not be mistaken for the Eastern people by that name. that's the scholar's limits. happy weekend bros.

The word Igbo is popular in Yoruba language and depending on the sound can range in meaning from forest, hemp, head-butt, a scrub, and so on.

The Igbo of the Ife story is not synonymous or same as the modern day Igbo tribe and people of Eastern Nigeria.

The Igbo of Ife are the riverine people currently in the coastal communities of Ondo state.

This is not the proper spot to talk about why the the identity of the Eastern Nigerian tribe was rewritten and changed from Ibo to Igbo, it is a discussion for politics, but the drive behind it was for the inferrence you drew and a deliberate act to sit itself as the pre-occupant of Yorubaland. The author of the revision was no other than Chinua Achebe. While the name change was successful the competition failed.

If you want to allude to a universal brotherhood, iwill agree that Yoruba share origin with Igbo people, just as we do with everyone else on planet earth. Outside of that, we are on the extreme polarities from one another.

prexios:

i feel your Ascension, big bros.
let me make some terrestrial guesses, as usual, drawing inspirations from your resource:
origin seems to me like ori -source and gin-sharp. i don't want to make a guess because that is sort of accessorized. could it be an inflection? Gin is like ari-gin-ni, he sees sharply, arin-gin-ni, he walk sharply. then arin-gin-ni gin-ni woja: he walk briskly to the market.

I will start categorizing my letters and words along their Physical/Metaphysical value; this will help.

R is the letter which condenses the spark of impulse or intuitive receptors originating in the metaphysical realm. In its state of inertia, undisturbed, it remains letter R.

When activated by an impulse it will have application or function. This function will then occur as words in the form of Ra, Ri, Re, Ro, Ru, and some other broader extensions. This application is the exertion of the spark into a manifest function, an action!

The same applies to G. The spark finds physical application in Ga, Gi, Ge, Go, Gu, ati bebe lo.

So every letter exist as a spirit or a spark of intuition. Every word is a manifestation of sparks coming into fruition to express physical action.

Therefore in Yoruba tongue the root spirit or flaming spark is usually given emphasis in the sound and usually encapsulated in vowels, pre and post. Look at

Ori (head). The root is R.
Oriki, Oruko, Orukun, Orun, Orun, Orun. (praisename, name, knee, sun, heaven, neck).

So from here we can safely deduce that letter R in Yoruba carries the spirit value or equivalency for the function ORIGIN or that which serves as the SOURCE for something else or upon which some other thing SUBSISTS; sort of a Dependent/Independent exchange.

Therefore we should seek letter R to inspire and grant us the intuition for finding subsistence (praying on knees - oRukun) or to make offerings for our ancestors - iRu'bo.

TerraCotta:

Hi 9jacrip--I'm just dropping by to tell you that this discussion was started and maintained by fake IDs ( probably from a notorious ethnic group consumed by hate and jealousy for everything Yoruba ). The majority of participants in this thread aren't Yoruba and you've quite rightly spotted that this nonsense about Egyptian origins and biblical roots for Yoruba culture is meaningless. You're wasting your time trying to have a decent discussion with fraudsters, pretenders and people who are ashamed of their own ethnicity.

I hope you'll save yourself the trouble of participating in their hateful nonsense. Their only goal, as posters like Gbawe and Katsumoto point out in other discussions, is to try and ridicule Yoruba culture and history out of their inferiority complex about their own backgrounds. You can look through all the discussions here and see which posters have made useful contributions to cultural discussions and which ones spend their time here talking about inane nonsense. Some well-meaning posters will be drawn into this charade because they haven't taken the time to find out who they're talking to and dealing with. Don't encourage the fraudsters with no pride or interest in their own culture or history.

I'd expect them to come in and deny or deflect the obvious truth but you should keep this in mind when reading their nonsense in the future. Writing in English doesn't make you an Englishman, and proposing stupid, nonsensical etymologies for Yoruba words certainly doesn't make you a Yoruba person either.

C'mon bro!

I believe the depth and breadth of knowledge that has been shared by major contributors on this topic so far is way too intimate for anyone who is not Yoruba to posess, unless they are doing a copy and paste from a book on Yoruba.

We agreed not to push or advocate anyone beliefin where Yoruba originated but allow the sounds and letters to lead us wherever it will.

Please, join and contribute to our learning in here. Share in the optimism and dont dismiss the efforts prematurely.

PeterKbaba: [b]I feel civilization started from ife, they moved outward through egypt established similar states / region names like Nineveh (ile ife) etc, they were conquered first and people moved into Egypt (africa), that wasnt enough for this demon in human skin, they came after us in Egypt, then we moved back to the source.. Ife

PeterK,

We say Yoruba origin started in Ile Ife, the Ooni and the Araba both narrated the mythical beginning of Yoruba to John Wyndham. Lookup "Myths of Ife".

In this narration the landscape reference is definitely foreign, as is the landmarks. There are unresolved issues.

1. Who is "Ife" ?

2. Is "Ife" same as "Eve"?

3. Is "Ile Ife" same as "Nineve" or "Nineveh"?

4. Which was older, Ile Ife in Nigeria or Nineveh in Babylonia?

5. Is Lamarudu same as Nimrod?

6. Was he an Indigene of Nineveh, Babylon or of Ile Ife, Nigeria?

I have hundreds more questions but let's start here.

tpia@:
@ terracotta

you're entitled to your views, but if something keeps popping up during field studies, its worth looking into, since there's likely a reason why.

i went through some of your posts and found this:






same type of thing which was pointed out earlier on the thread.





no, it does not mean that.

yorubas remain african.

however, if too many words keep reoccurring in both languages with surprising frequency and having the same meaning when translated, then it's worth looking into, imo.








i think the question of contact was discussed on another thread last year.

as per coincidence, that's possible, but the coincidences seem to be increasing in number.

Tpia, i agree. There are far too many of these matches in words, speiings, meanings and functions, and with far too many frequencies to call them mere coincidences, we should ask our scholars to present similar analysis in the Niger- Cingo. its not acceptable to just dismiss the new revelations as coincidence, we need facts to substitute them.

Tony Spike:

By the way, everyone is entitled to his/her opinion on Yoruba history & origins. The old school of thought has failed in many ways since it has failed to answer many arising questions. As far as I am concerned, there are far too many clues to discard our discussions here as fake, stunted and unrealistic. On the proliferation of fake IDs, it's just another wild guess. At least, I know metaphysical is Yoruba, just as I am. I won't go any further to prove my roots or who I am on this faceless forum.

@Tpia, could you please give me the link to Terracotta's earlier discussion on the Latin words? Thanks

Tony,

When prople dismiss what we do here as fake then I would like to see people spend similar effort like we are doing and bring us their knowledge of what the truth is. I want to see what Ile Ife say is the origin and how it tallies with narratives of other groups in Niger Congo that have Agemo, Adimu, Isise, Ifa, Bilikisu Sungbo, Esu, Moremi.

prexios:

Aright brother, i understand.

i have given myself the role of a watchdog sort of. i wish that we can have a really sincere thread and i take it as a privilege to be involved. i wont attack unnecessarily, i have my excesses, but it is because with one sweep you bring down the Bible we often use as leverage. Please pardon my excess.

What am i doing here without kindred spirits like you on this thread? I value everyone just as i value myself. never mind the fact that i am overprotective.

At first bolded: I have assigned myself that role too since I'm still trying to absorb the angle from which this thesis is building.

2nd bolded: If this discourse is going to get bigger than just NL then the Bible cannot serve as its cornerstone. In history circle, Bible isn't regarded as a source from which to build history. I'm sure older historians/writers must have had the idea of connecting Yoruba & Bible way before this thread, yes? Still, we're yet to read anything on such.

3rd bolded: Things are bound to get heated in a scholarly debate, it's nothing sir.