FrostyZonn:

The Quran contains what is presented as the literal words of Allah as relayed by Muhammad. A jumble of text that are randomly mixed together and rarely consisted, even within each chapter.

By contrast, The bible contains historical and biographical details.

They are nothing alike.

Muslims would say same about the Bible.

FrostyZonn:

Check that. That's an invalid reply. It doesn't apply to that particular post. A little miss up on my part, I'm afraid. Here's the real reply;

Your response does not qualify as evidence.

How do you know that the majority of nairaland Muslims share that view? Do you know the number of Muslims on nairaland? Then how can you tell the majority?

striktlymi:

Provide evidence from the Quran since we are talking about Islam and not its fanatics.

And to this I humbly obliged;

2:89-”Therefore, the curse of Allah is upon the unbelievers!”

2:97-”Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and messengers, to Gabriel and Michael, lo! Allah is an enemy of the unbelievers.”

2:191-”Kill them (unbelievers) wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you, for persecution is worse than slaughter…. Such is the reward of those who reject faith.”

2:193-”Fight against them (unbelievers) until there is no dissension, and the religion is for Allah.” Fight until no other religion exists but Islam.

striktlymi:

Are we to take this to mean that you don't know what the Quran says about it?

Tabari VII:65 "Allah's Messenger came back to Medina,bringing with him the booty which had been taken from the polytheists.... There were forty- four captives in the Messenger of Allah's possession. There was a similar number of
dead."

Bukhari:V5B59N512 "The captives of Khaybar were divided among the Muslims. Then the Messenger began taking. the homes and property that were closest to
him."

There are more from where those came from.

striktlymi:

Where is the evidence from the Quran?

I'm sure I had already addressed that earlier. I hate repeating myself.

striktlymi:

And the above is your evidence?

Now, you are threading water.

striktlymi:

Your response does not qualify as evidence.

How do you know that the majority of nairaland Muslims share that view? Do you know the number of Muslims on nairaland? Then how can you tell the majority?

Seriously??

Ever visited the Islam for Muslim section?

striktlymi:

Muslims would say same about the Bible.

Perhaps.

FrostyZonn:

And to this I humbly obliged;

Okay, cool!

FrostyZonn:
2:89-”Therefore, the curse of Allah is upon the unbelievers!”

2:97-”Whoever is an enemy to Allah and His angels and messengers, to Gabriel and Michael, lo! Allah is an enemy of the unbelievers.”

I won't focus on the above because you are also guilty. I am sure you regard Muslims as the enemies of God and probably you believe that they will go to hell.

FrostyZonn:
2:191-”Kill them (unbelievers) wherever you find them. Drive them out of the places from which they drove you, for persecution is worse than slaughter…. Such is the reward of those who reject faith.”

The full text is:

Surat 2:191



Translated as:

And kill them wherever you overtake them and expel them from wherever they have expelled you, and fitnah is worse than killing. And do not fight them at al-Masjid al- Haram until they fight you there. But if they fight you, then kill them. Such is the recompense of the disbelievers.

Now the above quote is one that a lot of persons take out of context...that text was written at a time of war and to be fair, people are expected to die whenever there is war...

What is quite interesting in there is that, the order was to engage and fight when the opposition fights you which is quite different from killing the innocent...this is made clear when you read the previous verse:

Surat 2:190



Translated as:

Fight in the way of Allah those who fight you but do not transgress. Indeed. Allah does not like transgressors.

FrostyZonn:
2:193-”Fight against them (unbelievers) until there is no dissension, and the religion is for Allah.” Fight until no other religion exists but Islam.

The text is:

Surat 2:193



Translated as:

Fight them until there is no [more] fitnah and [until] worship is [acknowledged to be] for Allah . But if they cease, then there is to be no aggression except against the oppressors.

Looking at your quote, one would be tempted to say that the Quran asks Muslims to eradicate other religions but this is very far from the truth.

That verse still was at a time of war and I have already demonstrated that the order was to fight only when threatened. Now, Surat 2:193 is not saying that the Muslims should be rootless because even at a time of war they are supposed to maintain some level of morality as I have demonstrated before.

The verse talks basically about those who refuse to stop fighting and not those who are bent on continuing the fight against the Muslims.

This can be readily seen when Muhammad gave directions on what his followers should do when their aggressors want peace:

Surat 9:5



Translated as:

And when the sacred months have passed, then kill the polytheists wherever you find them and capture them and besiege them and sit in wait for them at every place of ambush. But if they should repent, establish prayer, and give zakah, let them [go] on their way. Indeed, Allah is Forgiving and Merciful.

The bold shows that if the intention was to eradicate all other religions then they wouldn't have allowed them go on their way.

FrostyZonn:

Tabari VII:65 "Allah's Messenger came back to Medina,bringing with him the booty which had been taken from the polytheists.... There were forty- four captives in the Messenger of Allah's possession. There was a similar number of
dead."

Bukhari:V5B59N512 "The captives of Khaybar were divided among the Muslims. Then the Messenger began taking. the homes and property that were closest to
him."

There are more from where those came from.

I said I want to know the source of the myth!

FrostyZonn:

I'm sure I had already addressed that earlier. I hate repeating myself.

You did not provide evidence, just claims.

FrostyZonn:

Now, you are threading water.

Meaning?

FrostyZonn:

Seriously??

Ever visited the Islam for Muslim section?

The above still does not show evidence of a majority.

hayubee: Islamically women are considerd fragile nd should be treated with care. Frosty anser if I bring two sweets from my pocket 1 in its wrapper while the other one is not(I.e naked) den I throw it on d floor (I.e both sweets) and ask u 2 take 1 which 1 will u take?. In Islam we don't just say don't follow shaytan we say don't follow the footstep of the shaytan! U c women dress half naked attract every Tom and Harry!our sisters are not cheap where every Tom Harry can c her unclothedness no we Muslims treat our sisters well we don't degrade them to d level of concubines and society butterflies! If u c a woman u like her fine she didn't fall from heaven, see her relative and if u meet a woman it d shopping mall or any where nd u c her husband or relative with u no ok dis woman is married or single u no wat to do
Concerning driving the we consider it tedious 4 our sisters nd mothers so we drive them is that degrading! To prevent fornication women don't use the same spaces as men so they don't bring about temptation. D sharia law says in a gathering all women must sit before men I.e women must b comfortable b4 men! Is dat degrading the women!

In summary, women are like possession then, in fact prized possessions that must be handled with care. I consider my car my prized possession as well. At least we both have that in common.

hayubee: Concerning the issue of munafiq let's be logical here I have frends who attend pentecostal churches dey say Catholics worship idols and are worshipping Mary on the other hand the catholic say dey are not following the scriprures well so who do we follow! In d case of Islam we follow the quran nd hadith any thing other than dat is bidia which is haram I.e what terrorists are doing its haram and is anti Islam!. Majourity of does sucide bombers are being brainwashed by some munafiq givin Dem bad fatwa of Islam! Frosty I can c in u dat ur curious very good I want u to get authentic teaching of Islam from a good source I will to direct u to www.irf.net or watch peace TV. Gradually u will c d straight path.

Interesting way of distancing Islam from the mainstream.

It still doesn't explain why Shia Muslims butcher their Sunni counterparts and vice versa. Perhaps, you will shade some light on that as well?

In my understanding of Islam, Muhammad himself denounced those Muslims that refused to wage war against the infidels. In fact he was the one that coined that word "munafiq" which literally means hypocrite. According to him, they betrayed Islam and should be treated even worse than the infidels(unbelievers)

Which begs the question; Who are the real Muslims?

Nobody really knows, not even the Muslims themselves if the constant strifes between the shia and Sunni factions were to be taken into consideration.

hayubee: P.s: u said Islam allows men to bash their wives no dats mis understanding u strike her lightly like striking a baby is not synonymous with wife-bashing

That's not how the Quran described it, bro.

Mr striktlymi, before I reply any of your post, answer this, will you? Are you a Muslim or Christian or Atheist. Your answer will determine how I will approach your questions.

FrostyZonn: Mr striktlymi, before I reply any of your post, answer this, will you? Are you a Muslim or Christian or Atheist. Your answer will determine how I will approach your questions.

[size=15pt]Christian!!![/size]

striktlymi:

[size=15pt]Christian!!![/size]

Are you sure, cuz you sure don't sound like one. Remember what the bible said about sitting on the fence.

"You can't serve 2 masters simultaneously"

So better pick a side, and stick to it!

As usual striktlymi is playing his characteristic devil's advocate here.

FrostyZonn:

Are you sure, cuz you sure don't sound like one. Remember what the bible said about sitting on the fence.

"You can't serve 2 masters simultaneously"

So better pick a side, and stick to it!

Does this mean I should accept things I do not consider appropriate, just because those things are said against those I do not 'agree' with?

Pastor Kun: As usual striktlymi is playing his characteristic devil's advocate here.

Lol!!!

Pastor Kun: As usual striktlymi is playing his characteristic devil's advocate here.

You took the word right out of my mouth.

Frosty don't worry, I am tired so I am off your case...

FrostyZonn:

You took the word right out of my mouth.

Don't get your hopes up...all I said, I believe in. I don't just say things for the sake of talking.

I don't believe in a lot of teachings propagated by Islam but still I believe we misunderstand Islam itself because of the impression given by some of it's adherents...same can be said for some Christians too.

striktlymi:


Does this mean I should accept things I do not consider appropriate, just because those things are said against those I do not 'agree' with?

Are you sure you don't agree with them? Maybe it's just me, but you seemed to be on their side all the way. Little wonder, I mistaken you for a Muslim...(still have my doubts)

striktlymi: Frosty don't worry, I am tired so I am off your case...

*A sigh of relief*

Thank God!

striktlymi:

Don't get your hopes up...all I said, I believe in. I don't just say things for the sake of talking.

I don't believe in a lot of teachings propagated by Islam but still I believe we misunderstand Islam itself because of the impression given by some of it's adherents...same can be said for some Christians too.

Okay.

FrostyZonn:

Are you sure you don't agree with them? Maybe it's just me, but you seemed to be on their side all the way. Little wonder, I mistaken you for a Muslim...(still have my doubts)

Don't worry man...some have mistaken me for an Atheist too..Lol!!!

But seriously, when one does a critique of the faith or unbelief of another, I appreciate that it is done without bias.

striktlymi:

Don't worry man...some have mistaken me for an Atheist too..Lol!!!

But seriously, when one does a critique of the faith or unbelief of another, I appreciate that it is done without bias.

It's not bias if it's true.

Maasha Allah!
@strikyl I must say dis ur being just
So who is a Muslim?
A Muslim is some 1 who submit his/her self to Allah's will and believes dat der is no diety worship except Allah and muhammad is a prophet of Allah
Observes solat 5 times daily, fast's in d mont of ramadan, gives zakat from wat Allah has given him and goes 4 hajj if he can
I don't no of shai and sunni in d quran and hadith which I follow
Were dey get dirs I don't no
I am neither shai nor sunni, I am a Muslim who follows d teaching of Allah and his messanger! Thank you!

FrostyZonn:

It's not bias if it's true.

You are right! TRUTH is never biased but we know that what might be true for you might be false for someone else. In order words we have:

1) The absolute truth.

2) The truth as seen from one's viewpoint.

Let me illustrate:

If I present half a glass of water to two kids...one might see this glass as half full while the other might see it as half empty.

Depending on the viewpoint it can either be true or false but the absolute truth is that the glass contains water, irrespective of one's viewpoint.

striktlymi:

You are right! TRUTH is never biased but we know that what might be true for you might be false for someone else. In order words we have:

1) The absolute truth.

2) The truth as seen from one's viewpoint.

Let me illustrate:

If I present half a glass of water to two kids...one might see this glass as half full while the other might see it as half empty.

Depending on the viewpoint it can either be true or false but the absolute truth is that the glass contains water, irrespective of one's viewpoint.

So which of the religion is the Truth? Christianity or Islam?

FrostyZonn:

So which of the religion is the Truth? Christianity or Islam?

Lol!!!

I am a Christian and you know for sure that I will say Christianity...a Muslim would say Islam...and so forth.

But the absolute TRUTH is that the Children of God can be found in every religion and irreligion.

Ultimately, what matters to God is the sincerity of each individual's heart in doing what he or she considers good in line with the principles of right conduct and good conscience.