KidStranglehold: LOL! People in the comment section are arguing over African diversity.

lol.
some folks..smh

*Kails*:


end of discussion!
i know that is where we got it from!!

ESP. caribbean people and afro. latins



i really don't know lol.
its a tough call. you gotta remember i am jamaican and AA
so that alone makes it impossible to guess.

im from all over lol.

funny thing is i always get confused for kenyan...that might be a stretch but who knows.
i might have distant fam that way in me..*shrugs*

I heard Jamaicans have significant Akan ancestry.

Are you short? Because from what I've seen most Akans are. But if you get mistaken for a Kenyan, then IDK becuase Kenyans are tall and slim. Are you tall and slim?

*Kails*:


what about you?

Heh...Haitian side either Fon, Igbo, Yoruba, Kongolese or Senegalese.

Americans side either Mandinka(a lot of males in my family look like Mandinka people, I love the mandinka people!), Mende(Sierra Leone), Yoruba, Fulani, basically people of the Sahel. Supper made a good point about AA's mostly coming from their and early AA culture does look like that of the Sahel from what Supper posted.

*Kails*:


lol.
some folks..smh

Because people in the video looked hispanic. Were they mixed?

KidStranglehold:


I heard Jamaicans have significant Akan ancestry.

some of us yes.

Are you short? Because from what I've seen most Akans are. But if you get mistaken for a Kenyan, then IDK becuase Kenyans are tall and slim. Are you tall and slim?

im average for a woman..btn 5'5 and 5'7
i am slim...for the most part

they say its mostly facially.
and some kenyan woman are short and thick so you never know.

*Kails*:

some of us yes.




im average for a woman..btn 5'5 and 5'7
i am slim...for the most part

they say its mostly facially.
and some kenyan woman are short and thick so you never know.

You're short...

I must descend from tall Africans. Almost all the men in my family are tall. I'm 5'11 right now and I may grow to 6 feet.

KidStranglehold:

Because people in the video looked hispanic. Were they mixed?

yeah.
some french and belgian mullatas.

KidStranglehold:

Heh...Haitian side either Fon, Igbo, Yoruba, Kongolese or Senegalese.

Americans side either Mandinka(a lot of males in my family look like Mandinka people, I love the mandinka people!), Mende(Sierra Leone), Yoruba, Fulani, basically people of the Sahel

oh ok. thats whats up.

i see you gave it a lot of thought lmao.
like i said i feel its all a scam but i will give it a try. it won't hurt i guess.

im actually more interested in the test that goes into your racial make up.
i have seen some WEIRD results this one white girl's test said she was predominantly arab..she was HOT!

KidStranglehold:

You're short...

hater

I must descend from tall Africans. Almost all the men in my family are tall. I'm 5'11 right now and I may grow to 6 feet.

same in my family.
my mother and her children are the shortest of all of my relatives on her side.

*Kails*:


yeah.
some french and belgian mullatas.



oh ok. thats whats up.

i see you gave it a lot of thought lmao.
like i said i feel its all a scam but i will give it a try. it won't hurt i guess.

im actually more interested in the test that goes into your racial make up.
i have seen some WEIRD results this one white girl's test said she was predominantly arab..she was HOT!

I been thinking a lot and I think its true that I may descend from tall Africans like the Fulani(on my mothers side). I mean I'm taller than my father and everyone male on my father side is not taller than me. But I am super skinny and can not bulk up to safe my life like African groups like Nigerians or Ghanaians. I think I may descend from nomadic people like the Wolof or Fulani. I can go for DAYS without eating at all and I'll be okay.

On my fathers side. IDK. I think Kongolese? Fon? Igbo? Yoruba? IDK, because I'm different from most the males on my fathers side when it comes to body shape. They're muscular while I'm not.

Also I don't think its a scam personally.

As for the white girl being Arab. Middle easterners have been migrating into Europe since the neolithic. Remember Europeans were greatly influenced by Near Easterners.

During high school when it was weight training class. People were picking at me and my friend for being skinny. My friend said our ancestors were free slaves due to us not being muscular. LMAO!

Cracked everyone up.

*Kails*:


hater



same in my family.
my mother and her children are the shortest of all of my relatives on her side.

Well its normal for females to be short.

KidStranglehold:


Well its normal for females to be short.

true,

but kid you gotta remember this dna stuff is still in its infancy.
i've read reviews and just finished watching videos of people who know their results
were junk so like i said dont take it all for gospel.

Haitians are mainly Kongo Kingdom ethnics (Bakongo, Mbundu, Bateke etc) and Beninese (Mostly Fon but some Yoruba and Northern Beninese ethnic groups)
I think the percentage wise it was: About 45% Kongo Kingdom and 25% Beninese. The rest were from everywhere else

Us Jamaicans are mainly Southeastern Nigerians (Mainly Igbo but some were Ijaws, Efiks etc. Also some were Western and Coastal Cameroon) Ghanaian (Mainly Akan, however a lot of Northern Ghanaian were sent as slaves as well. Not to mention the Ga and Ewe too) and Kongo Kingdom ethnics (Bakongo, Mbundu, Bateke etc).
Percentage wise: About 30-35% Bight of Biafra (SE Nigeria and Coastal Cameroon), 25-30% Gold Coast (Ghana) and slightly under 15% Kongo Kingdom.

Aframs are Kongo Kingdom ethnics (Bakongo, Mbundu, Bateke etc), Senegambians (mainly Wolof, Fulani and Mandinkas) and Southeastern Nigerians (Mainly Igbo but some were Ijaws, Efiks etc. Also some were Western and Coastal Cameroon)
Percentage wise: Just over 25% Kongo Kingdom, 20-25% Senegambian and about 20% Bight of Biafra.

KidStranglehold:


I heard Jamaicans have significant Akan ancestry.

Are you short? Because from what I've seen most Akans are. But if you get mistaken for a Kenyan, then IDK becuase Kenyans are tall and slim. Are you tall and slim?

You wouldn't want to see my maternal side of the family. They look very "Ghanaian" and most of the adult male members are 6 foot plus.
Also Ghanaians maybe short but they are defo the toughest West Africans. The fruitiest West Africans are the Senegambians!

@ black where are you getting this stuff from?
I hope youre not using the "area of embarkment" table from wikipedia to claim that is what jamaicans are lol.

Jamaicans as a whole are not mostly anything.
Not even a handful of jamaicans have submitted dna lol so where are you getting this stuff from?

Site some sources please.

*Kails*:
@ black where are you getting this stuff from?
I hope youre not using the "area of embarkment" table from wikipedia to claim that is what jamaicans are lol.

Jamaicans as a whole are not mostly anything.
Not even a handful of jamaicans have submitted dna lol so where are you getting this stuff from?

Site some sources please.

Not wikipedia but slavevoyages.org
http://www.slavevoyages.org/tast/database/search.faces

It's pretty useful. It's not perfect though. For e.g. a lot of the "small islands" used to trade slaves with each other and by slave from the larger islands.
However all in all I think slavevoyages.org actually paints a good picture of what slaves come from where ever and where they were sent to.

Okay....I read what you guys have posted and I still stand on my comment about no one knows where African slaves hailed from regionally Percentage-wise.

Slavery has been going on for CENTURIES before African Slavery....I am curious about the real reason behind it since Whites and Asians were slaves at one point.

What was it about African Slavery that got people thirsty? I guess we will never know.

[size=14pt]Linguistic influence.[/size]

[size=14pt]"As regards numerals, I interview serval older Gullahs(SE coastal African-Americans), each of whom could count from one to nineteen in the Fula language. Usually the Gullahs did not know the name of the language in which they counted, but said that they learned the numerals from older relatives or friends. A few unknowingly, would draw upon two or more African languages in counting from on to ten."[/size]

http://books.google.com/books?id=2oZ5mHkg1QgC&pg=PA254&lpg=PA254&dq=gullah+fula+language+count&source=bl&ots=9DGbY1gcfQ&sig=0XCHpUhNgOiWnR6wO1Sn3goWSQ8&hl=en&sa=X&ei=zxsDUpmvI7L64AP-iYGQAg&ved=0CC8Q6AEwAA#v=onepage&q=gullah%20fula%20language%20count&f=false

- Lorenzo Dow Turner, Ph.D academic & linguist.

[size=14pt]A Linguistic comparison of Kreyol Ayisyen(Haitian Creole) vs Kreyol Lwiziyen(Louisiana Creole- the language of my still living maternal grandfather)[/size]
http://postcolonial.org/index.php/pct/article/viewArticle/375/813

HC emerged as the enslaved Africans tried to communicate with their French masters. Most of the St. Domingue slaves were speakers of Niger-Congo languages, which are several hundred languages spoken in Sub-Saharan Africa from the Atlantic to Sudan, and they were exposed to non-standard and non-homogenous French varieties spoken by the colonists. Standardization of the French language had not been achieved during the time of colonial expansion; thus, the French colonists spoke varieties known as Franais Rgionaux which contained significant lexical, syntactic, and morphological differences compared to contemporary French (St. Fort). HC developed as the Africans attempted to learn Franais Rgionaux; hence, the creole contains considerable morphological and syntactic influences from their indigenous West African languages ("Haitian". One factor influencing the unusual growth of this Creole was its development on an island in relative isolation from other languages. Probably the most significant factor that led HC to develop and flourish beyond the plantation-slavery era, unlike many similar creoles in the Americas, was the Haitian Revolution, in the early 19th century, ousting French colonial rule from the island (Jacobson). The descendents of the slaves who developed Haitian Creole have nurtured the language into a rule-governed full linguistic system (St. Fort).

In the first decade of slave trade, the Africans were speakers of many different languages including Ewe, Yoruba, and Bantu. Two-thirds of the slaves brought to Louisiana originated in the Senegambian region, speaking Sereer, Wolof, Pulaar, and Malinke. The largest group from Senegambia was the Bambara, who spoke mutually intelligible dialects of Mandekan (327). The fact that the majority of Louisiana slaves came from one region was unusual during the plantocracy, since it was considered prudent to separate people of similar tribes and language groups in order to prevent uprisings. Such a precaution was not taken in this case because it was "difficult to get any slaves in Louisiana" (Marshall 337). Also, the monopoly held by the Company of Indies in both Senegal and Louisiana may also have contributed to the Africans' relative ancestral homogeneity (334). Because of this homogeneity, retention of the Africans' indigenous languages may have delayed the development of a Creole in Louisiana. In fact, the Pointe Coupee slave revolt in 1731 was organized by the Bambara who were purportedly speaking their ancestral languages to plan the coup. Ultimately, LC did develop, like HC, with West African languages becoming the substrates to a varied French lexifier.

One native speaker of Louisiana Creole reported to have had little trouble learning Haitian Creole during a period when he lived on the island nation. Another native speaker claimed to have been able to communicate with Haitians in New York City by speaking Creole

Despite common misconception the two creoles have be proven to have developed separately(like the two voodoos which I might do a post on later, if I feel like it). The similarities they do share can be attributed to commonalities of the circumstance in which they both developed(interactions between French speaking slave masters + African slaves). Sadly, while HC is thriving, LC is currently a dying language mostly spoken by older generation Afro-Louisianians.

Anyway, Komen Kap Kori, Ayiti! lol(I know very little)

Also, contrary to popular belief, immigration between Louisiana & Haiti wasn't just a one way streak(from Haiti to Louisiana). It happened both ways. Several hundred Afro-Louisianians settled in Haiti's Artibonite Valley between 1859 and 1860.
http://books.google.com/books?id=27DLWdZMf5YC&lpg=PA64&ots=Ml5xvUMoLh&dq=%22blacks%20from%20louisiana%22%20haiti%20emigration&pg=PA64#v=onepage&q=%22blacks%20from%20louisiana%22%20haiti%20emigration&f=false

Culinary influence: [size=14pt]From West African Maafe to Virgina Peanut Stew[/size]

The dish originated with the Mandinka and Bambara people of Mali. The proper name for it in the Mandinka language is domodah or tigadegena (lit. 'peanut butter sauce,' where tige is 'peanut,' dege is 'paste,' and na is 'sauce') in Bamanankan. The word Mafé or Maafe is the Wolof word for dish. A variation of the stew, "Virginia peanut soup", even traveled with enslaved Africans to North America.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maafe

[size=14pt]Maafe[/size]


[size=14pt]Virgina Peanut Stew[/size]

Agricultural livestock influence: [size=14pt]The Guinea Fowl[/size]
[img]http://animal4u.files./2013/01/guinea-fowl-info0.gif[/img]

The Guinea Fowl is a domesticated version of the wild helmeted Guinea Fowl species native to Africa that was brought from West Africa in conjunction with the slave trade to North America. You can still see many of them running around in rural parts of the southern US, and are still a major part of traditional Afr'Am agricultural living and cuisine. My momo(grandmother) just calls them "guineas", her neighbor always has a couple that she just lets roam around the streets. lol I doubt she and most rural African-Americans even know where the country of Guinea is or the Guinea Coast. It's crazy how sub-conscious a lot of these cultural retentions are.

A guinea fowl, is a bird of African origin. They live in trees around the house and make a big noise if strangers come around. Like any game bird, they have to be aged before cooking. They have a delicious flavor and are best when cooked in a clay pot with butter, herbs, onions, and mushrooms. Early archeological evidence for this African-American tradition of using clay pots, and argues that it comes from Mandinka traditions of stewing guinea fowl in earthenware pots. It's even quite possible that the fried chicken traditions of our South derive from West African fried guinea fowl cooking methods.

http://languageoffood..com/2010/11/turkey.html
(See bottom picture.)


[size=14pt]Guineas in North Carolina[/size]
[img]http://1.bp..com/_u0DWEykBMWA/THz7h-AXOZI/AAAAAAAACeU/2NMCWuWp8s8/s400/guinea+pair.jpg[/img]

Funny Houston chronicle article about how the neighborhood Guinea Fowls are Loved/Loathed. lol Seriously, if you come to a lot of the African-Americans & Hispanic neighborhood down here in Houston Texas, you'll see these things running around freely on the streets, drive-ways, and side walks. lol
http://www.chron.com/news/houston-texas/article/Neighborhood-guinea-fowl-are-loved-loathed-1524146.php

Supper: The french Company of the Indies(primarily a colonial and slave trading firm), had monopoly over the colony of Louisiana and also the slave trade of the Senegambian region, with their Fort St. Louis headquarters of the Company of the Indies in Africa, being located in modern day Northern Senegal. This created the slave trading Senegal-Louisiana concessions of the 18th and 19th century, which was the primary reason two-thirds of the slaves brought to Louisiana came through the Senegambian region.

And speaking of the Fulani. Here's a video showcasing some documented famous ethnic Fulani people in America(or what is now the US).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jC2124XhYsg

An old unique blues style in the Northern Mississippi hill country called Northern Mississippi Fife and Drum blues, is an offshoot of Fulani Flute and drum music. In fact, the physical construction of the blues fife played in Northern MS is based on an old African model brought over by the transatlantic slave trade. The construction process mimics that of the of Fula flute. A musician typically cuts a piece of cane about a foot inlength, then a heated iron rod is used to bore out the cane, and finally the same rod isused to make the fingering and embouchure holes of the fife. No formal measure of spacing either between the embouchure hole and the fingering holes or between each of the fingering holes is used. Instead, the musicians use their hands as guides forconstruction, resulting in instruments that have slightly individualized scales, none of which are based on a classical Western model.
http://www.academia.edu/922424/_Stuff_You_Gotta_Watch_The_Effect_of_Anglo-American_Scholarship_on_North_Mississippi_Blues_Fife_and_Drum


Otha Turner construting his Blues Fife
[img]http://www.uncpress.unc.edu/poorheartease/images/pictures/canefife.jpg[/img]

Fula Flute


Mississippi Fife and Drum Blues Band - 1978

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNqrZUWBXxs
(@ 1:16)

Fulani Flute and Drum Music

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xEcDHYFo1Q

Great post



song from a Tuareg musician..

[url][/url]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edo8Dkr_DIo&feature=related

lol

Black Kenichi:
Not wikipedia but slavevoyages.org
http://www.slavevoyages.org/tast/database/search.faces

It's pretty useful. It's not perfect though. For e.g. a lot of the "small islands" used to trade slaves with each other and by slave from the larger islands.

However all in all I think slavevoyages.org actually paints a good picture of what slaves come from where ever and where they were sent to.

I saw that site a while ago.
like you said in the caribbean, a slave sent to jamaica could easily end up in the domican republic...etc etc. so we still dont know which was the majority..

What is awesome is how slavery started in our region (latin america and the caribbean) and yet we have preserved sooo much after 400+ years.

from our banking systems, language, dance, food, music etc etc. its very interesting.

The best places to study are jamaica, suriname, brazil, haiti and cuba imo because although we are mixed with several different tribes we still were able to fuse their ways but yet one can still see the origins.

For example patois is a mix of west and central african dialects. We were able to create our own language using their terms and make sense but you can still tell which words came from which area.

Anyway,

Im going to make separate thread about those countries later on.

*Kails*:


I saw that site a while ago.
like you said in the caribbean, a slave sent to jamaica could easily end up in the domican republic...etc etc. so we still dont know which was the majority..

What is awesome is how slavery started in our region (latin america and the caribbean) and yet we have preserved sooo much after 400+ years.

from our banking systems, language, dance, food, music etc etc. its very interesting.

The best places to study are jamaica, suriname, brazil, haiti and cuba imo because although we are mixed with several different tribes we still were able to fuse their ways but yet one can still see the origins.

For example patois is a mix of west and central african dialects. We were able to create our own language using their terms and make sense but you can still tell which words came from which area.

Anyway,

Im going to make separate thread about those countries later on.

KidStranglehold: @$$ shaking DEFINITELY came from central Africa. I never see West African girls @$$ shaking like Central Africans.

Mapouka - Ivory Coast

H-Star89:



song from a Tuareg musician..

[url][/url]
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=edo8Dkr_DIo&feature=related

lol

Awesome tune, which also brings me to this video where they explain how the interactions of the Tuareg people from North Africa with the people of the Sahel(mainly Mande) created the instrumental & stylistic fusion that would later influence the North American rural blues and of course later urban new orleans Jazz by proxy. But, Jazz is actually mixed lol. Jazz is part Central African Kongo(rhythmically - make sense seeing as it was birthed in Congo square New Orleans) and part Upper West African Sahelian/Sudanic(melodically & harmonically), and in some cases you can find the 3 common European harmonic chords altered to bring them into an African matrix.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wE2CtJ3hgvU

A melodic trait from the West African Sahel that is VERY popular in America music(most modern music period, due to influence) in the tonality is the use of the blues note, which is sometimes falsely stated as appearing in some types of european folk music, just because a pentatonic scale is present, which is not all that defines the blues note, but also wavy, bent tones often approaching another tone from below before reaching maximum height, then quickly collapsing, and also the use of a 17-21 tonal scale is common to African music, whereas European music utilizes a 12-tone scale. Also, the off beat accents common in all early American folk music, characterized usually by the stamping of a foot to accentuate the melody of a song often called the "blues beat" is NOT derived from European metrical schemes with their preconceived accents, and VERY common in the work songs of people in Upper West African Sahara & Sahel regions, and in Eastern Africa outside of the dense forest. In American music the propulsive rhythmic "feel" or "groove" created by the musical interaction between the performers, especially when the music creates a "visceral response" such as feet-tapping or head-nodding is an music phenomenon found in the the Savannah belt of West Africa.

H-Star89:

Ahh yes, Gehard Kubik's blues musical style cluster map in Africa. I'd say it's pretty accurate myself, seeing as he used the largest sample size of recorded traditional African music before the advent of western mass media to influence them from his travels there of any scholar. It also coincides with what a famous white mississippi(home of the MS delta blues) said about prefering African slaves from the interior of Africa verses those of the coastal regions.

Supper:
Famous white Natchez Mississippi planter/slaver, William Dunbar, express that Mississippi planters held a preference for Africans from the interior, stating "there are certain nations from the interior of Africa the individuals of which I have always found more civilized, at least better disposed than those from the coast, such as Bornon, Houssa, Zanfara, Zegzeg, Kapina, and Tombootoo regions". "The bornon" are those from the bornu empire, the "Houssa" are the Hausa, "Kapina" refers to those from the Katsina region of present day northern Nigeria and Southern Niger. "Zanfara" refers to the Zamfara region, another region in present day Northern Nigeria and southern Niger. Tombootoo refers to the Bambara of Mail. All of these regions had heavy islamic influenced populations.

^^^Coincidentally, all of those regions appear shaded dark on Gerhard Kubik's blues traits map.

I greatly recommend listening to this fantastic interview on the Afropop website by PH.d, ethnomusicologist, Gerhard Kubik, a white European, on the African stylistic orgins of the blues.
http://www.afropop.org/wp/6275/africa-and-the-blues/
Complete with side by side comparisons of African music to early African-American blues in the south.

Supper:
Ahh yes, Gehard Kubik's blues musical style cluster map in Africa. I'd say it's pretty accurate myself, seeing as he used the largest sample size of recorded traditional African music before the advent of western mass media to influence them from his travels there of any scholar. I also coincides with what a famous white mississippi(home of the MS delta blues) said about prefering African slaves from the interior of Africa verses those of the coastal regions:

Famous white Natchez Mississippi planter/slaver, William Dunbar, express that Mississippi planters held a preference for Africans from the interior, stating "there are certain nations from the interior of Africa the individuals of which I have always found more civilized, at least better disposed than those from the coast, such as Bornon, Houssa, Zanfara, Zegzeg, Kapina, and Tombootoo regions". "The bornon" are those from the bornu empire, the "Houssa" are the Hausa, "Kapina" refers to those from the Katsina region of present day northern Nigeria and Southern Niger. "Zanfara" refers to the Zamfara region, another region in present day Northern Nigeria and southern Niger. Tombootoo refers to the Bambara of Mail. All of these regions had heavy islamic influenced populations.

Many yank slavers said that the Senegambian slaves were much more docile. Many French, Yank and even Jamaican slavers (ironic) didn't like the Ghanaian slaves as they were by far the most aggressive and vengeful lot.
Even noted Afram slave rebels like Harriet Tubman, Nat Turner, Denmark Vasey were said to be of Ghanaian descent.

@ black the slaves that were the most rebellious were sent to jamaica. That is true. At that time jamaica was like a prison with unruly slaves from all throughout the spanish colonies sent there.

But they were not just from the gold coast.

*Kails*:
@ black the slaves that were the most rebellious were sent to jamaica. That is true. At that time jamaica was like a prison with unruly slaves from all throughout the spanish colonies sent there.

But they were not just from the gold coast.

Jamaica was a place for slaves to be "broken in" so to speak. Also I know that not all the rebellious slaves were from Ghana but a significant amount of them were.

Black Kenichi:
Jamaica was a place for slaves to be "broken in" so to speak. Also I know that not all the rebellious slaves were from Ghana but a significant amount of them were.

Yes correct. Rebellious and bad tempered slaves were often sent to Jamaica from other islands. In Jamaica slaves were treated more cruelly and certain methods of torture were carried out if a slave stepped out of line.
The Akan from Ghana were known for being rebellious.

Jayvarley:

Yes correct. Rebellious and bad tempered slaves were often sent to Jamaica from other islands. In Jamaica slaves were treated more cruelly and certain methods of torture were carried out if a slave stepped out of line.
The Akan from Ghana were known for being rebellious.

The akan ppl from Ghana were beasts in the new world lol. In jamaic the twi and ashanti were real thorns in the sides of the british. Same for the kongo peoples who led the rebellions and were aided by the akan, igbo, and other groups.

Another interesting fact I learned that the fulanis sent to jamaica were the most literate of the lot. They found arabic writings in both jamaica and brazil written by the fulani. Which is probably why patois is also influenced by the fulbe language despite their presence having been so small in size... compared to other new world colonies.

Kinda cool.

I used to follow all this drama about individual ethnic groups and their influence on the diaspora, but I've come to realise that individuals in the diaspora and sometimes very small regions have their individual cultural heritages so it isn't good enough just to say 'Jamaica is this' or 'Haiti is that'. These enslaved people were real individuals and they left descendants, so it should be the individuals cultural heritage that counts. That's not to say, however, that a certain groups influence in a region of the Americas should be overlooked, but we have to understand that the diaspora is much more complicated than 'the Fulani were here, and the Wolof were there'. Even these ethnic identities have transformed after the slave trade and colonialism.

I've seen examples of the generalisations in this thread. Igbo people for example, gradually accumulated in the Chesapeake region of the United States and these individuals contributed to an overall more Igbo influenced slave culture. But that is not to say that in another region like South Carolina that other groups, like the Wolof, didn't have more of an influence in the slave culture. But we can't forget that these cultures are, at whatever stage, a mix.