jln115:

The Gripen is the best WVR fighter.... So yeah it would make it better in that instance than the Rafael, Euro fighter, Su35 and F15..... Its also downed Rafael and Euro fighter during exercise red flag..... What it lacks compared to the aircraft you mentioned is deep strike capability.

Also the max take off weight of the Gripen C is 14000kgs...empty weight is 6800kg..this is according to SAAB btw!! Thus max payload is 7200kgs

Is the bolded statement also from SAAB or from you?

Why are you like this?

giles14:
sentiments aside the gripen is far too advance for the JF-17.gripen avionics is out of this world.

How?

jln115:
wrong info again.... Max speed of the Gripen according to SAAF and SAAB is mach 2.....also according to the Thai Air force the G load is +9/-4

Other things that are wrong.... The R Darter isn't integrated with the Gripen inly the A Darter... Also linkZA is the data link integrated with SAAF gripen, payload is also wrong since the payload of the Gripen is 7200kg

Mach 2 speed for the Gripen is higher than the JF-17 at 1.6 mach, but top speed is irrelevant. The F/A-18 has a top speed of Mach 1.6, same as the F-35.

Gripen G load is +9/-3.

The JF-17 also have the option of the PL-12, PL-10 and many advanced advanced missiles.

Link-17 is integrated on the JF-17.

kabe1:


Mach 2 speed for the Gripen is higher than the JF-17 at 1.6 mach, but top speed is irrelevant. The F/A-18 has a top speed of Mach 1.6, same as the F-35

Gripen G load is +9/-3.

The JF-17 also have the option of the PL-12, PL-10 and many advanced advanced missiles.

Link-17 is integrated on the JF-17.

The F/A 18 is a naval jet, hence the speed isn't priority..... However its certainly not irrelevant... At all!! And the F35 is a stealth aircraft which is not meant to engage WVR hence again speed isn't the priority, WVR the F35 is absolute dog sh1t


Secondly the G load of the Gripen is +9/-4 according to the Thai Czech Air force : https://www.army.cz/en/armed-forces/equipment/air-force/aircraft/jas-39-gripen-supersonic-aircraft-38154/

The JF-17 might also be fitted with one of the best SRAAM currently on the market... The A Darter

I didn't say the JF17 didn't have a Data link

iblawi:


Is the bolded statement also from SAAB or from you?

Why are you like this?

SAAB

Why I'm I like what? You people are blinded by patriotism making false claims..... The JF-17 is good and would fit Nigerian requirements perfectly....... Its not however in the same league as the Gripen.

jln115:
SAAB

Why I'm I like what? You people are blinded by patriotism making false claims..... The JF-17 is good and would fit Nigerian requirements perfectly....... Its not however in the same league as the Gripen.

You are the one blinded by patriotism and making false claims.

Am used to you shifting goal post. SAAB classified JAS-39 as light attack fighter which put it in same class as tejas and JF17 thunder ⚡.

It might be the best in it class bases on what we hear and see online but the fact remains JAS-39 is a light fighter jet.

Gripen NG with lots of modification and extensive upgrade fall in the medium category with F-16, mig 35, etc.

This will be my last comment on this topic. Everyone is free to believe what they want to believe.

jln115:

The Gripen is the best WVR fighter.... So yeah it would make it better in that instance than the Rafael, Euro fighter, Su35 and F15..... Its also downed Rafael and Euro fighter during exercise red flag ..... What it lacks compared to the aircraft you mentioned is deep strike capability.

which redflag exercise ??

The Gripen has the highest sustained and instantaneous turn rate of any fighter, as well as the highest AOA of any fighter in the world.

a source about this statement ? russian jets with there powerful two engines with thrust vector control are not a joke when we talk about maneuverability, AOA, and fight WVR

iblawi:

You are the one blinded by patriotism and making false claims.

Am used to you shifting goal post. SAAB classified JAS-39 as light attack fighter which put it in same class as tejas and JF17 thunder ⚡.

It might be the best in it class bases on what we hear and see online but the fact remains JAS-39 is a light fighter jet.

Gripen NG with lots of modification and extensive upgrade fall in the medium category with F-16, mig 35, etc.

This will be my last comment on this topic. Everyone is free to believe what they want to believe.

I never once said the Gripen wasn't a light fighter?? I simply said it is direct competition for the F16 which by definition is also a light fighter. Where as the JF-17 is direct competition for the Tejas.

Also the Gripen E is also a light fighter not a medium fighter.

You literally had an argument with yourself

Raaven:


which redflag exercise ??




a source about this statement ? russian jets with there powerful two engines with thrust vector control are not a joke when we talk about maneuverability, AOA, and fight WVR

This was only a Gripen A:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/theaviationgeekclub.com/former-swedish-air-force-flight-engineer-explains-how-the-saab-gripen-can-dogfight-and-win-against-almost-any-dissimilar-aircraft/

Su35:
AOA: 45 degrees
Sustained turn rate:25
Instantaneous turn rate:32

Gripen C
AOA: 70 degrees
Sustained turn rate: 28 degrees
Instantaneous turn rate: 38 degrees

Another brilliant Nigerian Air Force video, eliminating terrorist vehicles.


https://mobile.twitter.com/DefenceInfoNG/status/1349399662504140806

kabe1:
Another brilliant Nigerian Air Force video, eliminating terrorist vehicles.


https://mobile.twitter.com/DefenceInfoNG/status/1349399662504140806

mi-35m in action

jln115:

This was only a Gripen A:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/theaviationgeekclub.com/former-swedish-air-force-flight-engineer-explains-how-the-saab-gripen-can-dogfight-and-win-against-almost-any-dissimilar-aircraft/

Su35:
AOA: 45 degrees
Sustained turn rate:25
Instantaneous turn rate:32

Gripen C
AOA: 70 degrees
Sustained turn rate: 28 degrees
Instantaneous turn rate: 38 degrees

You're deluded, a single comment from an unknown flight engineer is your source?

This is hilarious.

Please post credible sources.

kabe1:


You're deluded, a single comment from an unknown flight engineer is your source?

This is hilarious.

Please post credible sources.

The article is from a credible military news site, written by a respected defense writer...........its not a blog like you like to use as sources

jln115:
The article is from a credible military news site, written by a respected defense writer...........its not a blog like you like to use as sources

Post credible sources. It's big news, let's see a Jane's Defence report on this, AIA, Air recognition, just post one credible source.

jln115:

This was only a Gripen A:
https://www.google.com/amp/s/theaviationgeekclub.com/former-swedish-air-force-flight-engineer-explains-how-the-saab-gripen-can-dogfight-and-win-against-almost-any-dissimilar-aircraft/

it was gripen C , http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/75717/swedish-af-looks-back-on-gripen-at-red-flag.html
and the source of scores against F16's is from from Quora site ( not very serious source ) . from a guy called Stefan Englund ( former Lieutenant Swedish Air Force Flight Engineering (1986-1991), not an official source could be advertising

and its not against a rafale like your statement .

for a better source Swiss Air Force tested and evaluated the gripen between 2008 and 2011 , the result the Gripen has significantly inferior performances than the Rafale, the Typhoon or even the older F/A-18C/D used by swiss AF. ( pics 1 to 4 for the results)

[img]https://imagizer./v2/1139x625q90/924/RgOzln.jpg[/img]


the official report of the evaluation here : [url]http://lignesdedefense.blogs.ouest-france.fr/files/rapport%20suisse.pdf[/url]

jln115:

Su35:
AOA: 45 degrees
Sustained turn rate:25
Instantaneous turn rate:32

Gripen C
AOA: 70 degrees
Sustained turn rate: 28 degrees
Instantaneous turn rate: 38 degrees

same problem . whats the source of this graph ? : AOA , Sustained turn rate change with altitude, weight, drag, speed,configuration.... here an exemple of a turn performance graph of an F16 .

[img]https://imagizer./v2/640x490q90/923/qBrBoj.jpg[/img]

how can you compare all this kind of parameters and give a single number with such a simple graph . its absolutely nonsense , this kind of test must be done under the same conditions for all the jets on your graph , which is impossible. so i think it's worthless fanboy graphs .

jln115:
I never once said the Gripen wasn't a light fighter?? I simply said it is direct competition for the F16 which by definition is also a light fighter. Where as the JF-17 is direct competition for the Tejas.

Also the Gripen E is also a light fighter not a medium fighter.

You literally had an argument with yourself

The Jf-17 ain't in competition with tejas, it clearly outclasses the Indian design....

Raaven:


it was gripen C , http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/75717/swedish-af-looks-back-on-gripen-at-red-flag.html
and the source of scores against F16's is from from Quora site ( not very serious source ) . from a guy called Stefan Englund ( former Lieutenant Swedish Air Force Flight Engineering (1986-1991).

and its not against a rafale like your statement .

for a better source Swiss Air Force tested and evaluated the gripen between 2008 and 2011 , the result the Gripen has significantly inferior performances than the Rafale, the Typhoon or even the older F/A-18C/D used by swiss AF. ( pics 1 , 2 of the results)

the official report of the evaluation here : [url]http://lignesdedefense.blogs.ouest-france.fr/files/rapport%20suisse.pdf[/url]



same problem . whats the source of this graph ? : AOA , Sustained turn rate change with altitude, weight, drag, speed,configuration.... here an exemple of a turn performance graph of an F16 .



how can you compare all this kind of parameters and give a single number with such a simple graph . its absolutely nonsense , this kind of test must be done under the same conditions for all the jets on your graph , which is impossible. so i think it's worthless fanboy graphs .

- Quora site? No I did not..........go read the article I posted

- Go read the report again It was evaluating Air Policing/Escort, Strike Mission and Reconnaissance...........All of which the Gripen would be severally disadvantaged as it doesnt have the range or payload to preform such missions compared to the Rafale and Eurofighter.(and this is literally the reason the Gripen lost out on these catogories according to the report)........or any other heavy fighter for that matter...............It also isn't my argument that the Gripen is the best fighter as I've stated several times that the Rafale is the best multirole fighter ever built!! However my argument was solely the WVR dog fighting capability of the Gripen, which does in fact out class both Rafale and Eurofighter.

- Max sustained and instantaneous turn rates

jln115:

- Quora site? No I did not..........go read the article I posted

here from the article , have even found the original post on Quora

Raaven:


here from the article , have even found the original post on Quora

LOL I take that back then

jln115:



Gripen C
AOA: 70 degrees
Sustained turn rate: 28 degrees
Instantaneous turn rate: 38 degrees

here a serious source : pdf https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1474667015332274/pdf?md5=89008a7c3fa4a6978d9460bba43737d2&pid=1-s2.0-S1474667015332274-main.pdf

CAREFREE MANOEUVRING AND AUTOMATIC RETURN TO NORMAL FLIGHT ENVELOPE JAS 39 GRIPEN. an academic work From Robert Hillgren SAAB AB who work for SAAB

on page 118 you will find that angle of attack of the grippen is only 26 degree for the light external store configurations and
20 degrees for the most heavy external store configurations.


so again its very diffcult to appreciate and compare WVR capabilities and there is a lot of false fanboy stats and sources on internet . add the manufacturer advertising for there products , we need to be specialists in aeronautics and have these jets in the hands of our pilots to be able to judge . the gripen is a good jet but you can not say its better than others in WVR so easily

jln115:
LOL I take that back then

Hahahahahahahahahabababababahaha!!!!

Raaven:


it was gripen C , http://www.defense-aerospace.com/articles-view/release/3/75717/swedish-af-looks-back-on-gripen-at-red-flag.html
and the source of scores against F16's is from from Quora site ( not very serious source ) . from a guy called Stefan Englund ( former Lieutenant Swedish Air Force Flight Engineering (1986-1991), not an official source could be advertising

and its not against a rafale like your statement .



how can you compare all this kind of parameters and give a single number with such a simple graph . its absolutely nonsense , this kind of test must be done under the same conditions for all the jets on your graph , which is impossible. so i think it's worthless fanboy graphs .

Buhahahahahahahahahaha

Oh, oh

My ribs, this is embarrassing

jln115:
LOL I take that back then

I told you, but you wouldn't listen!!

Stubborn fly......

You see where it landed you?

kabe1:


I told you, but you wouldn't listen!!

Stubborn fly......

You see where it landed you?

Ironic from the dude posting infographics from a blog

https://www.businessinsider.co.za/sweden-built-a-russian-fighter-jet-killer-and-stealth-is-irrelevant-2019-2?r=US&IR=T

https://www.flightglobal.com/analysis-sweden-hails-gripens-evolution-at-red-flag/109110.article

Raaven:


here a serious source : pdf https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S1474667015332274/pdf?md5=89008a7c3fa4a6978d9460bba43737d2&pid=1-s2.0-S1474667015332274-main.pdf

CAREFREE MANOEUVRING AND AUTOMATIC RETURN TO NORMAL FLIGHT ENVELOPE JAS 39 GRIPEN. an academic work From Robert Hillgren SAAB AB who work for SAAB

on page 118 you will find that angle of attack of the grippen is only 26 degree for the light external store configurations and
20 degrees for the most heavy external store configurations.


so again its very diffcult to appreciate and compare WVR capabilities and there is a lot of false fanboy stats and sources on internet . add the manufacturer advertising for there products , we need to be specialists in aeronautics and have these jets in the hands of our pilots to be able to judge . the gripen is a good jet but you can not say its better than others in WVR so easily

What we do have is wing loading and G load............that should give you a fair basic indication for a start

@Raaven

Just FYI people were posting fanboy info graphs(cough.... Kabe1) here long before I did..............could of just left me to have my fun instead of making this a technical serious discussion like we on nemises's page

jln115:
@Raaven

Just FYI people were posting fanboy info graphs(cough.... Kabe1) here long before I did..............could of just left me to have my fun instead of making this a technical serious discussion like we on nemises's page

we must encourage serious debates with sources, I am here, like many, to learn and understand more about military field . like this we will enjoy the thread more

morocco to buy two new OPV Avante from spain

1500 tons . 80 meters

jln115:
LOL I take that back then

yeye boy, hope you didn't pee your pants while taking it back..
Gripen this Gripen that

I know a day is coming when you will claim Gripen C/D is better than an F35.

Southies never sieze to amase me.

Raaven:


we must encourage serious debates with sources, I am here, like many, to learn and understand more about military field . like this we will enjoy the thread more

well then you shouldve started at the source of the problem

jln115:
Ironic from the dude posting infographics from a blog

https://www.businessinsider.co.za/sweden-built-a-russian-fighter-jet-killer-and-stealth-is-irrelevant-2019-2?r=US&IR=T

https://www.flightglobal.com/analysis-sweden-hails-gripens-evolution-at-red-flag/109110.article

try and Resist the Urge to SHALAYE" ..we happy to have the Jf-17. If you don't like em, tell escom to help you with one transformer to cuddle.

IGpro1:
yeye boy, hope you didn't pee your pants while taking it back..
Gripen this Gripen that

I know a day is coming when you will claim Gripen C/D is better than an F35.

Southies never sieze to amase me.

who are you again?