FOLYKAZE:


You are not making sense again. This has become a mockery.

Start by understanding what an Orisha is. Tell me can talk

If I sound incomprehensible it's because the matter is become incomprehensible. We can reduce it. You lead the way.

Reyginus:
If I sound incomprehensible it's because the matter is become incomprehensible. We can reduce it. You lead the way.

Start with this
http://mysticcurio.tripod.com/orisha.htm

Reyginus:
You have a business with making sure I understand how. Isn't that so?

Are you going to pay me? I need money o.

Supernatural is a natural unexplainable phenomenon.

My life is a natural unexplanable phenomenon.

Do the math

Reyginus:

We worship for a purpose. When we worship a nature we belief(by deism) is not conscious of our worship doesn't that bring us a gap closer to schizophrenia?

If I believe that water is the urstuff or the uncaused cause that caused it all, and also that it's no longer active, does it make any sense looking into water and exclaim:'How beautiful and sweet you are'?

We know our consciousness states as Conscious, Subconscious and Unconscious. If whatever Deism recognizes as that which exists but have no effect on the world is conscious and alive he must exhibit any of the above and have effect on the world. But it won't because deism says it doesn't interfere with the world.

If doesn't interfere with the world then isn't prayers or worship to it's properties something different from Deism? Why? Because like you put, your Orishas are have panpsychism. Isn't it so?

Refer here https://www.nairaland.com/2520043/what-makes-god-god .

Lot of your questions are treated there

Reyginus:
Lol. I've seen things today. Deism is simply the believe in a God that doesn't interfere with the universe. So how is this the same thing when I worship or venerate Orisha?

he still thinks I used "Deism" to refer to Isese

your comprehension is at the same level as a 10 year old or you just playing dumb

I asked you; since Deism is a belief relating to the Divine, is Deism a religion?



even if I call Isese a form of deism. ..I won't be wrong.
there's Deism - Olodumare doesn't interfere with the physical universe, there's no shrine, no priests to it Pantheism - everything is made up of Ase, Ase that belongs to Olodumare.
Animism - This Ase gives life(not necessarily biological) to all things. Monotheism - there's only one unquestionable, all powerful supreme being in whom all things find its source. Polytheism - There are 401 Gods worshipped in Isese


Please if you must reply this, do so with an intelligent input after understanding every word of this post I don't have time to continue with unproductive discussion that's just going in circles

FOLYKAZE:

Are you going to pay me? I need money o.
Supernatural is a natural unexplainable phenomenon.
My life is a natural unexplanable phenomenon.
Do the math

Okay.

FOLYKAZE:

Refer here https://www.nairaland.com/2520043/what-makes-god-god .
Lot of your questions are treated there

Okay.

macof:



he still thinks I used "Deism" to refer to Isese

your comprehension is at the same level as a 10 year old or you just playing dumb

I asked you; since Deism is a belief relating to the Divine, is Deism a religion?



even if I call Isese a form of deism. ..I won't be wrong.
there's Deism - Olodumare doesn't interfere with the physical universe, there's no shrine, no priests to it Pantheism - everything is made up of Ase, Ase that belongs to Olodumare.
Animism - This Ase gives life(not necessarily biological) to all things. Monotheism - there's only one unquestionable, all powerful supreme being in whom all things find its source. Polytheism - There are 401 Gods worshipped in Isese


Please if you must reply this, do so with an intelligent input after understanding every word of this post I don't have time to continue with unproductive discussion that's just going in circles

Let me advice you, macof. You see, there's no way ad hominem will make your argument for you and neither will your red herrings do so.

Your behaviour is typical to that of a toddler who thinks a best way to refute poor logic is by insulting the question of refuting. Let me help your poor memory.

First, who asked you about Iseele? Who's interested in Iseele? So how exactly can I be thinking of Iseele when all I ever wanted was remove Iseele from your Orisha? Don't confuse yourself.

You can't dodge this. This is the question again: Deism is simply the believe in a God that doesn't interfere with the universe. So how is this the same thing when I worship or venerate Orisha?

You can throw one or two lines of ad hominems or a toddlers tantrum to sound reasonable. You seem to think it's working. The question is, if you worship Yourself how then is it deism? Prove to me you can think.

Reyginus:
Let me advice you, macof. You see, there's no way ad hominem will make your argument for you and neither will your red herrings do so.

Your behaviour is typical to that of a toddler who thinks a best way to refute poor logic is by insulting the question of refuting. Let me help your poor memory.

First, who asked you about Iseele? Who's interested in Iseele? So how exactly can I be thinking of Iseele when all I ever wanted was remove Iseele from your Orisha? Don't confuse yourself.

You can't dodge this. This is the question again: Deism is simply the believe in a God that doesn't interfere with the universe. So how is this the same thing when I worship or venerate Orisha?


You can throw one or two lines of ad hominems or a toddlers tantrum to sound reasonable. You seem to think it's working. The question is, if you worship Yourself how then is it deism? Prove to me you can think.

and the emboldened proves those aren't just ad hominem but honest description of you... how can a sound mind project this same question after reading my last post?

you don't carry an argument over in circles as if your questions aren't being answered and not expect someone not to see something wrong with you


so yh, accuse me of ad hominem, that's your business, after all I say that for your own good. when you have gotten help over your cognitive disorders let me know.

macof:



and the emboldened proves those aren't just ad hominem but honest description of you... how can a sound mind project this same question after reading my last post?

you don't carry an argument over in circles as if your questions aren't being answered and not expect someone not to see something wrong with you


so yh, accuse me of ad hominem, that's your business, after all I say that for your own good. when you have gotten help over your cognitive disorders let me know.

Lolololol. I will personal take it up Myself to see how Worshipping Myself is Deism. Thank you, Monsieur Macof.

Hahaha No be small thing.

FOLYKAZE:

Let me quickly come in, Spirituality is a state of being spiritual.

Spiritual

. . .Of, relating to, consisting of, or having the nature of spirit; not material or supernatural.

Spirit

not as in ghosts, but as in the essence of being human - your soul or your inner life. A spirit is vital principle or essence of being.

Putting the particles together, Spirituality can be defined as any kind of practical activity through which a person seeks meaning, purpose and essence of their existence and environment.

Some may find out that their spiritual life is linked to association with a church, mosque, temple or synagogue. Some may pray or find comfort in a personal relationship with God or a higher power. Still others seek meaning through their connections to natural world or art.

Spiritual path is about question our being, finding answers about our existence, purpose in life, why we are suffering and philosophy of life generally.

Now, let me bring it down to difference between religion and spirituality.

In Spirituality, one is concern about the vital principle. In religion, it is all about faith and belief.

In spirituality, the questions are: where do I personally find meaning, connection, and value. In religion, the questions are: what is true and right?

Religion is for those who are in. . .those outside are sidelined. Spirituality is about connectedness putting everything into one basket called Ultimate.

Religion creates many world (sect and doctrines), Spirituality creates a united world.

Religion creates fear and hope for blissful enjoyment, Spirituality create experience and eimination of burden.

Religion is founded. Spirituality is inbuilt.

Religion contain rules and regulation. Spirituality is about open mindness.

Now tell sir, do you understand Spirituality now and it differences with religion? Any question?

Hmmm do you know the problem you normally have? You only accept a definition that suits you and then turn a blind eye to other connotations of the same word.
Spirituality also relates to religion whereby you'll be talking about the supernatural, spirits, God, sacred places etc. Like I said before, there's no single, widely accepted definition of spirituality. It is a broad concept.

If you still go by the opinion that spirituality has nothing to do with religion, then you are wrong sir.

dblackninja:


Hmmm do you know the problem you normally have? You only accept a definition that suits you and then turn a blind eye to other connotations of the same word.
Spirituality also relates to religion whereby you'll be talking about the supernatural, spirits, God, sacred places etc. Like I said before, there's no single, widely accepted definition of spirituality. It is a broad concept.

If you still go by the opinion that spirituality has nothing to do with religion, then you are wrong sir.

Your wishes and opinion have no relevance here.

The point we were arguing is that religion and spirituality are different things. Even though religion adopt some spiritual act, spirituality stands on it own. I even used a water and gulder analogy. There is always a tasteless, colorless, odourless and pure spirituality. This stand above religion.

You aint making sense when you defined religion as believe in God or some crappy supernaturals controlling power. Your definition is not acceptable when there are facts that some religion do not have room for believe in God or supernaturals.

I did not simply reject your definition. I found some loopholes therein and throw it back at you. The reason I dont buy most definitions from people is because what they submit is incomplete, one sided and fallacious. How do you want me to accept a definition from religious perspective? How do you expect me to accept a definition of religion that holds that it is a believe in God when religion like Buddhism, Jainism, Taoism and many imperial cults do not recognise the existence of God?

Wishes can never drive your point. Come forward with strong rebuttal if you have any problem with my submission.

FOLYKAZE:


Your wishes and opinion have no relevance here.

The point we were arguing is that religion and spirituality are different things. Even though religion adopt some spiritual act, spirituality stands on it own. I even used a water and gulder analogy. There is always a tasteless, colorless, odourless and pure spirituality. This stand above religion.

You aint making sense when you defined religion as believe in God or some crappy supernaturals controlling power. Your definition is not acceptable when there are facts that some religion do not have room for believe in God or supernaturals.

I did not simply reject your definition. I found some loopholes therein and throw it back at you. The reason I dont buy most definitions from people is because what they submit is incomplete, one sided and fallacious. How do you want me to accept a definition from religious perspective? How do you expect me to accept a definition of religion that holds that it is a believe in God when religion like Buddhism, Jainism, Taoism and many imperial cults do not recognise the existence of God?

Wishes can never drive your point. Come forward with strong rebuttal if you have any problem with my submission.

I thought we are already done with religion where I gave you 2 widely accepted definition of it and you at last accepted the term. It seems like it's this Buddhism that you just got hold of since we started discussing about spirituality that is making you change your perspective. Tell me how does Buddhism preclude from both definitions of religion that I gave you?
Hmmm!

dblackninja:


I thought we are already done with religion where I gave you 2 widely accepted definition of it and you at last accepted the term. It seems like it's this Buddhism that you just got hold of since we started discussing about spirituality that is making you change your perspective. Tell me how does Buddhism preclude from both definitions of religion that I gave you?
Hmmm!

Buddhism is very popular and I knew you will be familiar with it than Yoruba spirituality.

Your definition of Spirituality is one sided. You cut it from religion perspective. This angle is diluted, corrupted and irrelevant in this debate. Note the word especially in your definition. Especially is used to single out one person, thing, or situation over all others.

Even from the water and Gulder analogy, one know water can be defined as a liquid substance esp in Gulder. But does it end there? Nope. Does this give real picture of what water is? Nope. So why cant we go above conditionality and picture a term in it original form?

The words "esp in religion" throws your definition of spirituality out of the window. There lies critical loophole.

On a little way further, where we have spirituality (feeling of awe) of atheism. There are lot of atheists out there who have confessed they feel connected with natural world. Logicboy in his days agreed to spirituality in atheism. He is connected to music and art world. This does not make them religious but spiritual. Here is another loophole.

Therre are lot more but thes two should make my rejection understandable.

On religion, we have not make a clear ground. W only agreed on worship. . . We have lot of religion which do not have room for God. They are called Non-theistic religion. God are not rule out but are basically not revognised. Like in Buddhism and Taosim. They tend to be more spiritual than been religious. I only wish you can come forward with a better definition, better argument and rebut my own position.

Samething can be dig out from Aborisha. Orisha are gods but not necessarily supernatural beings. Divinity could be the best translation of Orisha. Orisha can mean selected consciousness. Why we tend to know oursleves and connect with other connect with other Consciousness, this is spirituality - connectedness in ONENESS.

Spirituality is about connection.

Religion is about binding.

FOLYKAZE:


Buddhism is very popular and I knew you will be familiar with it than Yoruba spirituality.

Your definition of Spirituality is one sided. You cut it from religion perspective. This angle is diluted, corrupted and irrelevant in this debate. Note the word especially in your definition. Especially is used to single out one person, thing, or situation over all others.

And you extricated yours from religion! I know why I gave that definition. It doesn't mean I don't know what you were talking about, that's why I gave room for other definitions of it by saying there's no single, widely accepted definition of spirituality. I just wanna help you widen your perspective because I know you have a war against religion (not even knowing that you're still deep rooted in religion). My definition of spirituality still stand till tomorrow no matter your opinion of it. All you need to do is widen your perspective.

On religion, we have not make a clear ground. W only agreed on worship. . . We have lot of religion which do not have room for God. They are called Non-theistic religion. God are not rule out but are basically not revognised. Like in Buddhism and Taosim. They tend to be more spiritual than been religious. I only wish you can come forward with a better definition, better argument and rebut my own position.

If we haven't reached a common ground then why am I seeing religion all over your post above?
Why not say Non-theistic spirituality? You know all these yet you're still arguing blindly. You can still go back some pages and find the 2 definitions of religion I gave you.

Spirituality is about connection.

Religion is about binding.

Spirituality is about appreciation for religious values

dblackninja:


And you extricated yours from religion! I know why I gave that definition. It doesn't mean I don't know what you were talking about, that's why I gave room for other definitions of it by saying there's no single, widely accepted definition of spirituality. I just wanna help you widen your perspective because I know you have a war against religion (not even knowing that you're still deep rooted in religion). My definition of spirituality still stand till tomorrow no matter your opinion of it. All you need to do is widen your perspective.

You are even admitting your definition is one sided. So why did you raise alarm that I rejected flawed definition?

dblackninja:

If we haven't reached a common ground then why am I seeing religion all over your post above?
Why not say Non-theistic spirituality? You know all these yet you're still arguing blindly. You can still go back some pages and find the 2 definitions of religion I gave you.

You defined religion as the belief in God. That is wrong as that statement is a definition for Theism. There is a wide difference between theism and religion. One can choose to believe in God without being religious. Another can be religious without believing in God. These are two different grounds. You need to come out clean.

One need to go back to the root; etymology of a word before one can arrive at the actual meaning of it.

Religion originates from the latin word "Religare", which means "to bind". Therefore, from it root meaning, religion can be define as the bond between man and the sacred.

My definition is broad and cut across many angles. Meanwhile, the other definitions you provided are too narrow, exclude many belief systems. They are too vague and ambiguous.

Ex...Football is a religion. It does not entail belief, not to talk of beief in one non-existing God. But football can be sacred to fans. There can be some piety/relious devotion to football player. All in all, this definition applies to all dimension of religion.

dblackninja:

Spirituality is about appreciation for religious values

Break Spirituality down etymologically and help us with how you arrive at the definition above.

FOLYKAZE:

You defined religion as the belief in God. That is wrong as that statement is a definition for Theism. There is a wide difference between theism and religion. One can choose to believe in God without being religious. Another can be religious without believing in God. These are two different grounds. You need to come out clean.

One need to go back to the root; etymology of a word before one can arrive at the actual meaning of it.

Religion originates from the latin word "Religare", which means "to bind". Therefore, from it root meaning, religion can be define as the bond between man and the sacred.

My definition is broad and cut across many angles. Meanwhile, the other definitions you provided are too narrow, exclude many belief systems. They are too vague and ambiguous.

Which part of your definition is broad? Or are you using my own definition??
You said:' "This is why another dictionary define religion as an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods"

Ex...Football is a religion. It does not entail belief, not to talk of beief in one non-existing God. But football can be sacred to fans. There can be some piety/relious devotion to football player. All in all, this definition applies to all dimension of religion.

And I said it You are now using my definition as your own. You were the one asking me whether football is a religion and I replied.
https://www.nairaland.com/1412636/non-christian-chatbox-sticky/144#46438363
Macof come and see what your senior brother is doing.
Chai! Chai! There is Orishaooo! There is Orishaooo!!

Now you wanna use it to buttress your own point
It only shows that what I was teaching was sinking but you are just adamant in other to win (don't worry, I'll still find that trophy).

Break Spirituality down etymologically and help us with how you arrive at the definition above.

Now since I've seen that you learn quickly but forget easily (or maybe you're doing that on purpose), let me give you some well deserved definitions of spirituality.

Spirituality
1.The quality or state of being spiritual--spiritual in the sense of: (a)Of or pertaining to the spirit or the soul.
(b)Of or pertaining to spirits; supernatural.
(C)Of or pertaining to God or a place of worship; sacred.
This (c) now leads us to the second and equally important definition of spirituality.
2. Appreciation for religious values.

Edit: Saw a site that gave a detailed explanation to spirituality better than mine. Do well to visit it
http://matadornetwork.com/bnt/what-is-spirituality/

dblackninja:


Which part of your definition is broad? Or are you using my own definition??
You said:' "This is why another dictionary define religion as an organized system of beliefs, ceremonies, and rules used to worship a god or a group of gods"

I defined Religion as bond between man and the Sacred.

Now, let me help you fuse the above definition into the other one you draw here.

What is the bond? The institution or system which is the foundation of belief, ceremonies and rules.

What is the Sacred? God or whatever. . ..

If religion is the bond between man and the sacred; it is the samething as defining religion as a system of belief, ceremony and rules (bond) used for worship (man does) a God (sacred).

We dont have problem here.

dblackninja:

And I said it You are now using my definition as your own. You were the one asking me whether football is a religion and I replied.
https://www.nairaland.com/1412636/non-christian-chatbox-sticky/144#46438363
Macof come and see what your senior brother is doing.
Chai! Chai! There is Orishaooo! There is Orishaooo!!

Now you wanna use it to buttress your own point
It only shows that what I was teaching was sinking but you are just adamant in other to win (don't worry, I'll still find that trophy).

I was the one that questioned if devotion for football team is a religion https://www.nairaland.com/1412636/non-christian-chatbox-sticky/144#46436668

lol

dblackninja:

Now since I've seen that you learn quickly but forget easily (or maybe you're doing that on purpose), let me give you some well deserved definitions of spirituality.

Spirituality
1.The quality or state of being spiritual--spiritual in the sense of: (a)Of or pertaining to the spirit or the soul.
(b)Of or pertaining to spirits; supernatural.
(C)Of or pertaining to God or a place of worship; sacred.
This (c) now leads us to the second and equally important definition of spirituality.
2. Appreciation for religious values.

Edit: Saw a site that gave a detailed explanation to spirituality better than mine. Do well to visit it
http://matadornetwork.com/bnt/what-is-spirituality/

The site is superb. It support my argument

FOLYKAZE:


I defined Religion as bond between man and the Sacred.

Now, let me help you fuse the above definition into the other one you draw here.

What is the bond? The institution or system which is the foundation of belief, ceremonies and rules.

What is the Sacred? God or whatever. . ..

If religion is the bond between man and the sacred; it is the samething as defining religion as a system of belief, ceremony and rules (bond) used for worship (man does) a God (sacred).

We dont have problem here.

I was the one that questioned if devotion for football team is a religion https://www.nairaland.com/1412636/non-christian-chatbox-sticky/144#46436668

lol

The site is superb. It support my argument

Chai! Alright I believe you have learnt something

dblackninja:


Chai! Alright I believe you have learnt something

I wish Rey can learn like you do.

FOLYKAZE:


I wish Rey can learn like you do.

Amen. I wish you can learn what it means to learn.

Reyginus:
Amen. I wish you can learn what it means to learn.

Hahaha No be small thing ooo

dblackninja:

Hahaha No be small thing ooo

Yeah. If you go through it you wouldn't be making baseless arguments. Religion is the worship of a Supernatural but I worship a Supernatural but it's not a Religion. You need Honesty and an open mind to learn.

Reyginus:
Yeah. If you go through it you wouldn't be making baseless arguments. Religion is the worship of a Supernatural but I worship a Supernatural but it's not a Religion. You need Honesty and an open mind to learn.

Bro, are you a christian?

So are there any efforts underway in Nigeria to revive indigenious(traditional) religion? Alot of people want this religion to thrive once again.

RajputMaster24:
So are there any efforts underway in Nigeria to revive indigenious(traditional) religion? Alot of people want this religion to thrive once again.

Why?