Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven

@Cayon: This goes to the heart of the matter. Who call Jesus, lord, lord, but Christians? Even Jesus is condemning a portion of this very religion. Please, fear the fire of hell. Jesus has already made his position known. Take heed, people!

There are those that call upon God all the time but they are great sinners.

Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven

That's very right.
You see may God deliver us. A lot of ppl identify themselves with God but the heart is very far from Him. They make confession only with the mouth but not penetrating into the heart and u know this brings about hypocrisy and deceit. God hates it. JER 17 vs 9:The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? KJV. For more about this, view my post - topic "The Heart" and see my last analysis

The kingdom of God is meant for ppl who are serious for it. Not for the double-minded, double-tongued or lukewarm. Remember, Re 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. (KJV) which means rejection and denial.

May God help us.

olabowale:

@Cayon: Even Jesus is condemning a portion of this very religion.

Who told you that?

nice answer

e_samfor2:

That's very right.
You see may God deliver us. A lot of people identify themselves with God but the heart is very far from Him. They make confession only with the mouth but not penetrating into the heart and u know this brings about hypocrisy and deceit. God hates it. JER 17 vs 9:The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? KJV. For more about this, view my post - topic "The Heart" and see my last analysis

The kingdom of God is meant for people who are serious for it. Not for the double-minded, double-tongued or lukewarm. Remember, Re 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. (KJV) which means rejection and denial.

May God help us.

@Cayon:

Quote from: olabowale on Yesterday at 12:56:58 AM
@Cayon: Even Jesus is condemning a portion of this very religion.
Who told you that?


Cayon (f) Re: What Do You Think About This Bible Verse?
« #5 on: Today at 01:07:39 AM »

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nice answer

Quote from: e_samfor2 on Yesterday at 09:56:33 AM
That's very right.
You see may God deliver us. A lot of people identify themselves with God but the heart is very far from Him. They make confession only with the mouth but not penetrating into the heart and u know this brings about hypocrisy and deceit. God hates it. JER 17 vs 9:The heart is deceitful above all things, and desperately wicked: who can know it? KJV. For more about this, view my post - topic "The Heart" and see my last analysis

The kingdom of God is meant for people who are serious for it. Not for the double-minded, double-tongued or lukewarm. Remember, Re 3:16 So then because thou art lukewarm, and neither cold nor hot, I will spue thee out of my mouth. (KJV) which means rejection and denial.

May God help us.

My darling Cayon, you told me by your very first post to begin this thread. Please read it, above. Rather you presented a verse from the Bible that says that Jesus said that not all persons who called him, lord. lord will enter the kingdom of heave. I guess it is clear that he, Jesus is talking about the Christians here. That some of the Christians will not enter Paradise.

IIt is obvious that no one calls Jesus lord, and no one will call him lord, lord, except the christians. Jesus has said that some will not enter heaven. They must therefore enter lake of fire. All Praises belong to All.ah. Gleely, the Paradise of Mus.lims is not in the hand of and does not depend on Jesus.

Don't misunderstand me, I love Jesus, just as I love all the prophets and messengers. I am not disrespecting him. I am just stating the facts and nothing but the facts.

Luke.3:16…John said…,  "I baptize you with water; but he who is mightier than I is coming, the thong of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie; he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

Matthew 3:11…. "I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry; he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

this is the better who among you like to baptize with fire, any want of you like to grill

many christians are of the opinion that verbally claiming christ as their lord is all that is required to be saved.  This is not entirely their fault.  They have been misled by certain demagogues who have twisted and misrepresented christianity.  If you can give an overview of christianity in a few words I believe that nothing does this better than the 3rd chapter of John's Gospel.  And it is this passage of the bible that has been most played upon by these demagogues. 
Jesus states it explicitly that unless a man be born again he cannot see the kingdom of God.  These demagogues then seized on this phrase and went around shouting 'you must be born again'.  They open born again church and whatnot.  Ask them what is the process, how does one get to be born again.  They will say that when you have to come to the front of their church at the end of the service and they will pray for you and that's it you've been born again.  That is how today we have all these born again christians running around. 
But nothing has happened for them.  All they have done is accepted a doctrine.  Either they were bullied into accepting this doctrine or they were persuaded with some Yoruba Yoruba arguments.  Being born again is more than accepting a doctrine.  It is something that actually happens. 

It is stated explicitly that there are two aspects to the human being.  The Flesh and the Spirit.  In most of us the spirit is lying dormant.  Our bodies have been born and have even matured to adulthood but yet our spirit is still in foetus stage.  It must come into realisation. it must be born.  Just like the body has organs of perception so does the spirit.  It is with the spirit that we SEE the kingdom of God.  The sensual faculties cannot see this.   What are the qualities of Spirit?  Spontaneity is one. 

The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.  It cannot be predicted where it will go or what it will do next, neither can you ascertain where it has come from. All you know is that it is in operation in the here and now.  It is not Formulaic.  It is totally free of the causal chain of events that determine our fleshly behaviour.  You don't see a christian coming.  A christian pastor does not go up to the pulpit to regurgitate all the indoctrination and formulas that he learned in bible school.  Rather he does not prepare any sermon but allows the spirit to speak through him spontaneously at the moment when it is time for him to talk. 

It is so easy to open your mouth and claim a doctrine but it is an altogether different proposition to awaken the spirit and submit to it and let it be your guide in life.  Christianity is a practical affair, it is not theory or doctrine.  Many will cling to their doctrines and formulas but alas this will help them none.

The Lord God Jesus was saying those people that Claim they gave their TITHES, TIME AND SERVICE TO CHURCH WITHOUT HOLINESS WILL GO TO HELL.

The Lord God Jesus was saying those people that Claim they gave their TITHES, TIME AND SERVICE TO CHURCH WITHOUT HOLINESS WILL GO TO HELL.

Chei backslider, correct.

@Cayon: This goes to the heart of the matter. Who call Jesus, lord, lord, but Christians? Even Jesus is condemning a portion of this very religion. Please, fear the fire of hell. Jesus has already made his position known. Take heed, people!

Your interpretation of that verse is FALSE!!!!!
This is why I won't take you seriously on the interpretation of the Bible. You cannot apply your muuslim interpretation on the Biblical interpretation (as in if "this" is false then "that" must be true) I hope you understand.

My darling Cayon, you told me by your very first post to begin this thread. Please read it, above. Rather you presented a verse from the Bible that says that Jesus said that not all persons who called him, lord. lord will enter the kingdom of heave. I guess it is clear that he, Jesus is talking about the Christians here. That some of the Christians will not enter Paradise.

What Jesus is saying is that just because someone walks up and says I am a Christian, does not mean that the person is actually a Christian.
Olabowale, I have told you many times, that there are those that claim to be Christian, but are false, that is why you see false prophets. Just because someone says that he loves God does not mean that he actually loves God.

Don't come up with oh well this man says he's a Christian therefore he must be telling the truth. A lot of people claim to be graduates but indeed are not, this is a fact, we see it in Nigeria.

Oh yes perfect example "419" just because a man says he's abank manager does not mean that he's a bank manager does it? Evidence has to be provided (fruit) this goes in saying with the verse that "by their friut you shall know them.'
To know a true Christian? Well let them produce evidence. Just because they say oh Jesus is Lord does not mean that they truly believe that Jesus is Lord, not truly believing that Jesus is Lord grants no entrance to the Kingdom of heaven.

I hope that is a better explanation of it for you.

If you truly want to know the "true" interpretations on the Bible, ask, rather than reading something and screaming "wolf"

This is what I tell you about understanding the Bible. You want to understand the Bible, go to those who study it well and they will give you the real answers, not what your Imam told you and asked you to pass down to the little ones. Because of your lack of understanding of a book you call false, I won't convert to Is'lam.

Luke.3:16…John said…, "I baptize you with water; but he who is mightier than I is coming, the thong of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie; he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

Matthew 3:11…. "I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry; he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

First of all, I thought the gospels were conflicting, how then do they match?

this is the better who among you like to baptize with fire, any want of you like to grill

Not physical fire silly. Baptising with fire is receiving the Spirit, like when the "tongues as fire" rested upon them. Basically you have received the Holy Spirit.

~Lady~:


If you truly want to know the "true" interpretations on the Bible, ask, rather than reading something and screaming "wolf"

Or better still pray that the holy spirit should reveal it to you.

Pastor AIO:

Or better still pray that the holy spirit should reveal it to you.

Many times the devil reveal things to us and we say it's God. For example plenty Christians love to stand up in church and chat pure gibberish and say dem speaking in toungues.

@~Lady~:

~Lady~ (f) Re: What Do You Think About This Bible Verse?
« #10 on: Yesterday at 08:49:21 PM »

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Quote
The Lord God Jesus was saying those people that Claim they gave their TITHES, TIME AND SERVICE TO CHURCH WITHOUT HOLINESS WILL GO TO HELL.

Chei backslider, correct.


Posted on: June 14, 2008, 02:58 AMPosted by: Cayon
Insert Quote
Not every one that saith unto me, Lord, Lord, shall enter into the kingdom of heaven

Please tell me how what Backslider said, posted far above, that you respond to is a correct and direct explanation of what Cayon, said, posted near above? And how did I not get it, when I said that Jesus, based on what the bible said condemned some people in the Christendom, already, you seem to assume that I was not telling the truth. We see Backslider agreeing with me. This verse does not need any interpretation. It is so direct, that it reminded me my Primary one english about complete sentence: John comes to school, was the sentence, There is no need for explanation in this case.

Why does every verse in the Bible needs explanation? Is there any verse in the Bible that does not need any interpretation?

If you don't or there are, how do you interprete Mark 12 verse 29, talking about Jesus saying that oh my people listen, your God and my God, is but just One Lord! It denies anything more than 1 entity. Then we move to post Jesus verses where the postulation of of other people's 3 godhead was presented. If these two verses are interpreted, there is no way that they will mean the same thing. Please lets have a good conscience about this.

@~Lady~:

Quote
@Cayon: This goes to the heart of the matter. Who call Jesus, lord, lord, but Christians? Even Jesus is condemning a portion of this very religion. Please, fear the fire of hell. Jesus has already made his position known. Take heed, people!

Your interpretation of that verse is FALSE!!!!!
This is why I won't take you seriously on the interpretation of the Bible. You cannot apply your muuslim interpretation on the Biblical interpretation (as in if "this" is false then "that" must be true) I hope you understand.

There is no need for interpretation for what is very clear and direct. Olabowale my name, among the yoruba is not a name that needs any explanation or a further strange and indirect look at it. I use my name as an example of what is direct. Thats how i see what Jesus was reported to have said. Please tell me, from that verse, will any Christian go hellfire? Rather will all Christian go to Paradise? Remember that Jesus was not talking about M.uslims.

Quote
My darling Cayon, you told me by your very first post to begin this thread. Please read it, above. Rather you presented a verse from the Bible that says that Jesus said that not all persons who called him, lord. lord will enter the kingdom of heave. I guess it is clear that he, Jesus is talking about the Christians here. That some of the Christians will not enter Paradise.

What Jesus is saying is that just because someone walks up and says I am a Christian, does not mean that the person is actually a Christian.
Olabowale, I have told you many times, that there are those that claim to be Christian, but are false, that is why you see false prophets. Just because someone says that he loves God does not mean that he actually loves God.

Please note those that you call false Christians and false prophets are within the ranks of Christendom. This still proves what we are saying, about Jesus condemning some christians. Afterall, the fake christians and prophets are not Mus.lims, but Christians!

Don't come up with oh well this man says he's a Christian therefore he must be telling the truth. A lot of people claim to be graduates but indeed are not, this is a fact, we see it in Nigeria.

Oh yes perfect example "419" just because a man says he's abank manager does not mean that he's a bank manager does it? Evidence has to be provided (fruit) this goes in saying with the verse that "by their friut you shall know them.'
To know a true Christian? Well let them produce evidence. Just because they say oh Jesus is Lord does not mean that they truly believe that Jesus is Lord, not truly believing that Jesus is Lord grants no entrance to the Kingdom of heaven.

I hope that is a better explanation of it for you.

Not. I at least can read what is acclaimed for Jesus in the bible. It is direct and I may not like it or I may love it. I just dont see why i need any interpretation for something so direct.

If you truly want to know the "true" interpretations on the Bible, ask, rather than reading something and screaming "wolf"

This is what I tell you about understanding the Bible. You want to understand the Bible, go to those who study it well and they will give you the real answers, not what your Imam told you and asked you to pass down to the little ones. Because of your lack of understanding of a book you call false, I won't convert to Is'lam.

There is no need for an interpretation for a sentence so direct and so clear. What is there to understand about something as clear as a bell? I do not need imam to explain many parts of the AlQur;an to me. For example, when God said that he is One, there is no need for expalantion for what that means. When god says make prayer, there is no need for me to ask what is prayer. When God says that He created Heavens and earth and things seen and unseen, I ned no explanation or in the biblical term, interpretation. These things are direct. I can think. I do not need to be lied to.

~Lady~:

First of all, I thought the gospels were conflicting, how then do they match?

I just give you two of the verses you right away point its already agreeable, can you find the two more verses in Mark and John?

Not physical fire silly. Baptising with fire is receiving the Spirit, like when the "tongues as fire" rested upon them. Basically you have received the Holy Spirit.

Tongues as Fire, are you a dragon of the chinese believe?

@~Lady~:

Not physical fire silly. Baptising with fire is receiving the Spirit, like when the "tongues as fire" rested upon them. Basically you have received the Holy Spirit.

Please, read the verse from the Bible about Baptism, again. I will post two of them below so that you do not have to worry to much. Now tell me how you can, in good conscience say what you said about either of the two verses, as i have quoted you above?

If you are sincere, forgeting that the verse isvery straight forward about spirit and fire regarding the baptism, I will allow you to interprete as you did, the interpretation is what is quoted; Now tell us how you can not see that therewill be two spirits coming to play in the baptism? the one that is in the baptism and the one you manufactured to be received in your quoted interpretation.

If you look at the sentence structure, the verses in the Bible or your own quote, you will see that you must be consistent, with how the spirit and fire come together, since they are both active in the baptism. there is no way you can ignore one, and leave it intact in the original premise and began to interprete the other part. It does not wrk like that. I wonder if the Mountain of Fire (receiving spirit, if I use your idea) also baptize with spirit, since they have a mountain of it already. It should not be hard for them to just pick and choose.

Posted by: ~Lady~
Insert Quote
Quote
Luke.3:16…John said…, "I baptize you with water; but he who is mightier than I is coming, the thong of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie; he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

Matthew 3:11…. "I baptize you with water for repentance, but he who is coming after me is mightier than I, whose sandals I am not worthy to carry; he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit and with fire.

First of all, I thought the gospels were conflicting, how then do they match?


Quote
this is the better who among you like to baptize with fire, any want of you like to grill

Not physical fire silly. Baptising with fire is receiving the Spirit, like when the "tongues as fire" rested upon them. Basically you have received the Holy Spirit.

Posted on: Yesterday at 08:49:21 PMPosted by: ~Lady~

Please explain how baptizm with fire becomes receiving the Spirit, while Baptizm with Holy spirit, did not become something else. Both coming from the same sentence and they both are the active ingredients of Baptizm. How can one change and the other does not change? Is the word fire, um? But there is a church will exactly that "Mountain of Fire." Maybe there are others. I don't know. You are in a better situation to know than me.

Sorry Olabowale & Samba123, your contributions, reasoning and thinking so far have been so different and far from the reality. Have you been sent to persecute and pervert christians?

Please tell me how what Backslider said, posted far above, that you respond to is a correct and direct explanation of what Cayon, said, posted near above? And how did I not get it, when I said that Jesus, based on what the bible said condemned some people in the Christendom, already, you seem to assume that I was not telling the truth. We see Backslider agreeing with me. This verse does not need any interpretation. It is so direct, that it reminded me my Primary one english about complete sentence: John comes to school, was the sentence, There is no need for explanation in this case

You and I both know the context in which you made your statement and it is very evident when you stated that Jesus condemned people in this very religion.

Tell me that you were not trying to make implications about the Christian religion (this has been your very goal)
So no matter how subtle you make your statement, the underlay is still the smae. You are making a mockery of Christianity.

Why does every verse in the Bible needs explanation? Is there any verse in the Bible that does not need any interpretation?

Why does every verse in the Qu'ran need and explanation? Is there any verse in the Qu'ran that doesn't need an interpretation?

Dude in any language, an interpretation or explanation is always needed or else you won't understand. It is not just for religious works. This sentence I write to you needs to be understood by you, your brain explains and interprets it to you, and that is why you are able to understand what I am posting.

Don't forget I posted a question of how is the Word of God separate from God himself and the muuslims had to "explain" to me how it means the word be and it is.

If you don't or there are, how do you interprete Mark 12 verse 29, talking about Jesus saying that oh my people listen, your God and my God, is but just One Lord! It denies anything more than 1 entity. Then we move to post Jesus verses where the postulation of of other people's 3 godhead was presented. If these two verses are interpreted, there is no way that they will mean the same thing. Please lets have a good conscience about this.

This is why you lack the mystery of Christ. I honestly don't know how else to explain it to you, since you want to see God as three in Christianity, but he is not. It's cool.

Olabowale my name, among the yoruba is not a name that needs any explanation or a further strange and indirect look at it. I use my name as an example of what is direct

I don't know what Olabowale means you have to interpret that for me. Since interpretations are not necessary, would you please let me know the meaning of Ikponmwosa.

I just give you two of the verses you right away point its already agreeable, can you find the two more verses in Mark and John?

John
"I baptize with water," John replied, "but among you stands one you do not know. He is the one who comes after me, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to untie." 'The man on whom you see the Spirit come down and remain is he who will baptize with the Holy Spirit'

Mark
'"After me will come one more powerful than I, the thongs of whose sandals I am not worthy to stoop down and untie. I baptize you with water, but he will baptize you with the Holy Spirit."

Tongues as Fire, are you a dragon of the chinese believe?

Seeing is believing right? So does God exist and have you seen him? Everything must be in the physical right? Where is God in the physical?

Please, read the verse from the Bible about Baptism, again. I will post two of them below so that you do not have to worry to much. Now tell me how you can, in good conscience say what you said about either of the two verses, as i have quoted you above?

If you are sincere, forgeting that the verse isvery straight forward about spirit and fire regarding the baptism, I will allow you to interprete as you did, the interpretation is what is quoted; Now tell us how you can not see that therewill be two spirits coming to play in the baptism? the one that is in the baptism and the one you manufactured to be received in your quoted interpretation.

If you look at the sentence structure, the verses in the Bible or your own quote, you will see that you must be consistent, with how the spirit and fire come together, since they are both active in the baptism. there is no way you can ignore one, and leave it intact in the original premise and began to interprete the other part. It does not wrk like that. I wonder if the Mountain of Fire (receiving spirit, if I use your idea) also baptize with spirit, since they have a mountain of it already. It should not be hard for them to just pick and choose.

"I will shower you with love and affection."

So will I be receiving two different things or will I be receiving the same thing? Will I be showering you with love and then separately be showering with affection? Which one comes first?

I am very disappointed in your use of Mountain of fire. It is just a name of a church. I really thought you could do better than that.


The Holy Spirit and Fire are synonymous.

And of the people are some who say," We believe in Allah and the last day", but they are not believers. They think to deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive not except themselves and perceive it not. -

Surah Al-Baqarah 8 and 9

@~Lady~:

You and I both know the context in which you made your statement and it is very evident when you stated that Jesus condemned people in this very religion.

Muhamma.d (as) condemned musli.ms, too. He said that there will be 72 divisions that will go to hellfire, while only 1 will not go. No mus.lims hears it from anyone outside Isl.am, and the Musli.m get bent out of shape. Rather the musl.im will say this is a reminder for me to not be from the 72 that will go to hellfire first, before going to paradise, or remaining permanently in hell. The AlQur'an condemn the hypocrites among the musl.ims. It says this people will even have a punishment worse than just plain outright disbelievers. You are too sensitive. No wonder you have not taking away anything from our conversation. You gling to much to what is unnecessary.

Tell me that you were not trying to make implications about the Christian religion (this has been your very goal)
So no matter how subtle you make your statement, the underlay is still the smae. You are making a mockery of Christianity.

You need to stop putting words in my mouth. You don't know my heart. I am not a christian. I am not a Jew also. Neither religion do I want to practice. Why? They do not follow the light of the prophet they claim to follow for guidance. Prophets receive revelations. Prophet says exactly what comes to him of what is revealed to him. Prophet explains to his community of every revelation, in words and actions. The community is expected to follow him, step by step, but not deviate from him as when they make up their own different ideas up.

If the Children of Israel had followed the revelation of Moses, they would have found all the signs on Jesus when he came. They would all have followed him in one sweep, as they did with Moses out of Egypt.

If the combined followers of Jesus had followed the revelation of Jesus, they would have found all the signs on Muhamm.ad when he came. They would have followed him in one sweep, as they would have earlier followed Jesus, without the post Jesus slants.

You should know that I have many Christians in my life. I am hoping that they change though. But I am not forcing them. I want them to change because they found I.slam to be sound, and not because of me. Any christian who knows me will tell you that am not shy to speak my mind, but am tolerant to the religion of Christianity.

Yesterday, a Jewish friend, almost a father figure to me called and he was telling some situations with him. We then started talking about fasting. I had to tell him about the fasts of the Children of Isreal. How Moses fasted 40 days, instead of 30 days. The same tradition that the Christians adopted. Jesus did not start the fast of 40 days, but he was only following in the tradition of Moses. Incidentally, it was this 40 day stay on the Mount Sinai that was the window of opportunity for the "creation of a god," by those people who wer just be rescued, without any of their lives being perished, while a well oiled military and their "supreme commander, Pharaoh," perished! Now do you ever think that I did not tell this Jew the truth? I did. And I pity the late Lance S. Adler who just died a week ago. He was my Lawyer for 8 years. I wished I had known Is.lam then. In all the times that we spent together, I would have challenged his heart to the true worship of God. How Moses worshipped and instructed future generations to do.

Efeosa, this is what i am doing with you. I thought we were friends. I think you had your thoughts all along. You asked me questions about Is.lam I gave it to you straight. I said again tht whatever Muha.mmad said, if it is not clear is what is followed. For example, God said make Salah. But there were no instructions of the many rakah for each. Mu.hammad gave the full details, in speech as in the ahadith and in action as in the sunnah. No one can come later and say, well i want the early afternoon prayer to be different from what Mu.hammad established. This is guidance. Allah reveals. Muhammad explains.

Great topic and replies sa far
I've got to tell Olabowale however to stop carrying on with his arguments because he's getting it all wrong. The passage is only warning the hypocrites, who despite calling Jesus their Lord, are not living up to His standard. Jesus never barred anyone from calling Him Lord because He is the LORD. He only warns to who do that to live up to the name they are calling. I hope you understand ^{I'm not ready for argument, however}

@~Lady~:

Why does every verse in the Qu'ran need and explanation? Is there any verse in the Qu'ran that doesn't need an interpretation?

No. Not every verse or even chapters of the AlQur'an needs explanations. For example Chapter 112 does not. Chapter 109, does not. They are very direct. Even the first chapter does not. And many more verses does not. The verse commanding covering up of body does not need any explanation at all. Every woman knows what are the instruments of attractions among her body parts. You don't have to interprete when God says that He is One. That He does not have a progeny. That He was not a progeny of anyone. Which parts need interpretation? Zero, because they are very clear. Thats what you find among the muslims.

Dude in any language, an interpretation or explanation is always needed or else you won't understand. It is not just for religious works. This sentence I write to you needs to be understood by you, your brain explains and interprets it to you, and that is why you are able to understand what I am posting.

But what my brain interpretes and explains (your opinion now based on your writing above), is exactly what you write. My brain will not tell me One is Three. One is One and definitely different from three. If I say to you that I am bearded, you will not have to interprete it to mean a clean shaven man, or just a person with moustache or a side burns. Beard is beard. It is the hairs on the lowest part of the head. I just pin point the place hair is supposed to be to form a beard.

Don't forget I posted a question of how is the Word of God separate from God himself and the muuslims had to "explain" to me how it means the word be and it is.

God said Be so it Becomes (Kun is Be, a command. Fa is so the springing in to action. Ye kun; it Becomes). This short statement, Kun fa ye kun does two thing; It tells the believers how immediate Allah's command manifests as soon as it is given. Then it negates the claim of any out of place and incorrect statements by others about creations and any process of creation that they may find unique, hence a special claim is attached to that creative process and what is created by it.  Since you are a christian and you can read "Be and it is," but yet want to put a slant to it or just not accepting it, it is the only reason you asked for explanation. Just the mere reading of it gives you the complete jist of it. Remember God said that He but only commands, when He decree a thing to happen. Then He said His command is Be and the thing happens as in the it is part.  A seeker of truth, without preconcieved notions will read it exactly the way it is.

I know your voice, because of your words that I have heard, but I havenever seen you. Thus it mean that when I hear your words that you are hear with me, physically? Of course not.

Quote
If you don't or there are, how do you interprete Mark 12 verse 29, talking about Jesus saying that oh my people listen, your God and my God, is but just One Lord! It denies anything more than 1 entity. Then we move to post Jesus verses where the postulation of of other people's 3 godhead was presented. If these two verses are interpreted, there is no way that they will mean the same thing. Please lets have a good conscience about this.

This is why you lack the mystery of Christ. I honestly don't know how else to explain it to you, since you want to see God as three in Christianity, but he is not. It's cool.

Efeosa. How do you give up so easily? Is it because you can never in good conscience see how the two can mean the same? If you read them the way they are, the oppose each other. If you interprete them, they are bound to disagree. There is no way clear glass and pure water can become the same thing. My dear Efeosa, it is not for you to accept the unacceptable. When you become an accountant, God willing, I will give you a condition that will be unreal and ask you to resolve it. It will be difficult to do.

If I give you a million USD to hold in a safe deposit box and never to pledge it for investment and never to do anything with it. If after a year, I ask you to give me my funs back, but then I said it must be three million USD. Definitely, you will ask me how that is possible, even though, I have sent surrogates around your office saying that its three mil from the moment I gave you the money. If they tell it so much that you hear it, you may only say to those who are your associates that the surrogates are liars and that people will know the truth when the time comes. It will not be unusual that you say to your close associates that you may confront me for the truth, if they hear it directly from me.

Saying God is one of the three is even worse than this scenerio above. Afterall we are both humans, and friends. Please think about it. You dont have to take my terrible approach of telling you the truth, for you to reject it outright, without any thorough thought about it. We are friends and sometimes friends need  to be brutal in speech, as long as it is the truth. I am not saying that I do not have softness about me. I truly have and you have witnesses that am a good listener. When you want me to just listen I will. When you ask me for truth, I will tell you. It is you who needs to take it.

@~Lady~:

Olabowale my name, among the yoruba is not a name that needs any explanation or a further strange and indirect look at it. I use my name as an example of what is direct

I don't know what Olabowale means you have to interpret that for me. Since interpretations are not necessary, would you please let me know the meaning of Ikponmwosa.

Babe. Read my entry. No Yoruba person will ask the meaning of that name. You are not Yoruba by birth, by language and in mannerizm/culture. You said it, even though the Binis can in good conscience say that their bloodline and the yoruba bloodline has the same umbilical cord, in recent history.

I take it that Ikponmwosa is a name in Edo language. However, am not a Bini person and I do not speak the Edo language. But am sure the elders of the Bini people will have no problems with the name. They would not need an explanation or interpretation. This is the reason that I ask: why would anyone need an interpretation of a simple and direct sentence in a language that the have a good mastery of? If I replace verse 29 of Mark 12, fro m Jesus to just a common name, and God to Boss of a company and Lord to Chairman of same company, you will not have problem saying that the speaker, the common name is a worker and also a subordinate of the Boss who is also the Chairman. This is look at it as plain as possible, without any religious hang over.

Seeing is believing right? So does God exist and have you seen him? Everything must be in the physical right? Where is God in the physical?

I remember that you told me that you are stubborn. I see the traces of stubbornness in you. You can't hide it. But God gives all indication of His existence. All you have to do is to observe and even in yourself there are signs that God exists. But if you believe that God is not in the Physical, how then are you taking jesus to be God? I am sure there are verses in the Bible that says he is god and there are others that say he is lord. Is there any verse that says that he is god and lord at the same time? But we see that Jesus himslef says that he and his listeners in Mark 12 verse 29 have the same Entity who is bothe their God and Lord. Now, who should we believe; Jessu or others who wrote verses in the Bible going against what Jesus himself said?

@olabowale
There's apparently a Muslim section in Nairaland now. It clearly states that it's solely for muslims 'even the moderators are muslims' as it proudly proclaims.

So why are you, a Muslim, involving yourself in a debate on bible verses?

@~Lady~:

"I will shower you with love and affection."

So will I be receiving two different things or will I be receiving the same thing? Will I be showering you with love and then separately be showering with affection? Which one comes first?

You know that love and affection mean the same thing. WE really don't have to interprete here. You know it. And I know it. But holy spirit and fire as elements of baptizm are two things because of the conjuction, "and," and they are not the same thing. The spirit is not a visible element, always while fire is visible and it even has a tell tale signs: Smoke, heat, brightness, etc.

lol. Efeosa, you ae doing an overkill in your presentation. If I go by the sentence, love comes first. But you are affectionate with the person that you love. That is the easier way to have the affection as well. When it is affection that comes first, it may take a longer time to develop love because love is more emotional. I think this love and affection thing is done and over with. Lets leave that alone.

I am very disappointed in your use of Mountain of fire. It is just a name of a church. I really thought you could do better than that.

I am disappointed in myself too. It shows that I am just an ordinary person who needs God guidance, always. But you know that when the church choose a name like that, while their whole objective is to run away from Hellfire, one needs to take a critical look at the wisdom behind it. Its in the same light I see Babangida who calls himself evilgenius. How can a musl.im attaches evil to his own identity? You will see that it is odd. I call it hypocracy, which is worse than outright disbelief.

The Holy Spirit and Fire are synonymous.

Don't lets go there again. I will tell you my opinion, when next we talk. I am grinning. Knowing you, that will not be soemthing you would not have objection to. But remind me, please.  



@[Pastor AIO]
And of the people are some who say," We believe in Allah and the last day", but they are not believers.  They think to deceive Allah and those who believe, but they deceive not except themselves and perceive it not. -

Surah Al-Baqarah 8 and 9
[quote][/quote]

God talks about the hypocrites among the musli.ms.  

@favcom: My man, I was pointing out to anyone what they call Jesus. But I was saying in that verse that Jesus was taliking about the hypocrites in christianity, whom he was condemning. Just the verses of Surah Baqarah above quoted by Pasto AIO. God condemns the hypocrites among the muslim.s. Thats  fact. there should not be a fight about that. You see me agreeing with the Pastor AIO. The verses are direct to the topic. What one needs to do is to ask, am i one of these hypocrites? That should be the starting point.

@Texazzpete: Ol boy, no one restricts you from taking a peep. You can even respond or start a thread in there. I have friends in the general section, which you call Christian. When they tug on me, i respond back to them. 4Him and ~Lady~ are just two gender examples.

The Love of God is proven in DEEDS, not sweet words, or feelings.

@Imhotep: Kini iwo ogbeni yi nso? O tun ti bere awa wi e. So tell us what you mean by deeds? Will it include twisting words? You know the meaning of Olabowale, without any interpretation, right?

@Texazzpete: Imhotep is one of those people. I need to recognize.

olabowale:

@Imhotep: Kini iwo ogbeni yi nso? O tun ti bere awa wi e. So tell us what you mean by deeds? Will it include twisting words? You know the meaning of Olabowale, without any interpretation, right?

@Texazzpete: Imhotep is one of those people. I need to recognize.

@Sultan olabowale
Let me add pepper to this conversation.

Mahatma Gandhi refused to convert to christianity because one christian he met told him that one could live anyhow one wanted -- as long as one has faith in Jesus. This christian went as far as deliberately committing sins in front of Gandhi to prove his point.

Gandhi was not impressed with this, and told him =>

“I do not seek redemption from the consequences of my sin. I seek to be redeemed from sin itself, or rather from the very thought of sin”

Gandhi was a wonderful Hindu that we can all learn from - christians, m'uslims, etc etc

imhotep:

@Sultan olabowale
Let me add pepper to this conversation.

Mahatma Gandhi refused to convert to christianity because one christian he met told him that one could live anyhow one wanted -- as long as one has faith in Jesus. This christian went as far as deliberately committing sins in front of Gandhi to prove his point.

Gandhi was not impressed with this, and told him =>

“I do not seek redemption from the consequences of my sin. I seek to be redeemed from sin itself, or rather from the very thought of sin”

Gandhi was a wonderful Hindu that we can all learn from - christians, m'uslims, etc etc

There is a difference b/tween a born again Christian and Christian faith.  They have some born Christian who think God is mocked.  They think they can wilfully sin and then ask God for forgivness.  My God is a forgiving God, but He is not mocked.  So the man who Ghandi referred to was not a born again Christian, just one of thoose wannabe

Btw, I love Ghandi, he was a man of wisdom and knowledge but he was no King Solomon

Cayon:

There is a difference b/tween a born again Christian and Christian faith. They have some born Christian who think God is mocked. They think they can wilfully sin and then ask God for forgivness. My God is a forgiven God, but He is not mocked. So the man who Ghandi referred to was not a born again Christian, just one of thoose wannabe

But that [misguided] Christian thought he was doing very well as a follower of Christ.

Cayon:

Btw, I love Ghandi, he was a man of wisdom and knowledge but he was no King Solomon

We all have a lot to learn from him still.