Your uncle is very correct. I am a paramedic. I studied Human Anatomy in school with the thought of going back to study Medicine. A very close friend of mind saw my interest in Computer and was wondering what I was doing in medical field. Today as I speak, I know so many Programming Languages and I was never taught in any school. I'm a developer in both webs and desktop apps.

embee3: Your uncle is very correct. I am a paramedic. I studied Human Anatomy in school with the thought of going back to study Medicine. A very close friend of mind saw my interest in Computer and was wondering what I was doing in medical field. Today as I speak, I know so many Programming Languages and I was never taught in any school. I'm a developer in both webs and desktop apps.

_

Oh, good for you! Now create a chess game for me, or program a robotic arm to pick up objects.

Or wait, tell me about the SHA-1 encryption protocol, its flaws and how you can fix them.

Or create Google Search.

Or tell me this: how are cookies passed in the HTTP protocol?

All these nigerian graduates, always trying to impose their views on others. All they know is, go to university. Look for a good job and live hapily after ever you will never hear, start a business create jobs and contribute to the growth of the nigerian economy. If you try to start a business they will criticize and discourage you. Instead they will sit at home and sap the little, the economy has to offer.
Why not make use of the existing tools to solve problems instead of trying to build a new one. They are instead always trying to reinvent the wheel. Someone said shell will not employ you as if shell can employ all the graduates in Rivers state let alone all over the country. My view is this whoever does his job well will dine with kings. Op on all the so called engineers we have in the country, very few have actually contributed to the economy while the vast maturity jump from office to office looking for shell jobs. Nigeria needs entepreneurs not job seekers.

SimonAndal:
_

Oh, good for you! Now create a chess game for me, or program a robotic arm to pick up objects.

Or wait, tell me about the SHA-1 encryption protocol, its flaws and how you can fix them.

Or create Google Search.

Or tell me this: how are cookies passed in the HTTP protocol?

this guy men do you know how many programmers Google alone have. In some companies there will be a big screen where like one or two person will be watching the screen as someone programs, just to check for flaws and errors in the code. I can do chess game and Google search its just a matter of time and resources if u want those two i will demand like 20,000 dollars every three months. as for Robotic Arm, that's the work between a mechanical engineer, robotic engineer and a computer programmer, he will be on the software side, like write a program to control the robot. i.e after getting the algorithms from the engineers.
You not a computer science student or an i.t career person please respect field.

cocoduck: All these nigerian graduates, always trying to impose their views on others. All they know is, go to university. Look for a good job and live hapily after ever you will never hear, start a business create jobs and contribute to the growth of the nigerian economy. If you try to start a business they will criticize and discourage you. Instead they will sit at home and sap the little, the economy has to offer.
Why not make use of the existing tools to solve problems instead of trying to build a new one. They are instead always trying to reinvent the wheel. Someone said shell will not employ you as if shell can employ all the graduates in Rivers state let alone all over the country. My view is this whoever does his job well will dine with kings. Op on all the so called engineers we have in the country, very few have actually contributed to the economy while the vast maturity jump from office to office looking for shell jobs. Nigeria needs entepreneurs not job seekers.

You re very correct. But one thing u don't know is that the government needs to play a part in all these. If the electricity is fixed they will much more investors in the country to employ these graduates. To start a business in Nigeria u need capital and like America u can just go to the bank and secure a loan more easily, and do u knw why, becos the identity database is up to date, u can easily be found if u don't pay. The identity crisis is the greatest disadvantage to the growth of Nigeria economy.

ikp4succes:

this guy men do you know how many programmers Google alone have. In some companies there will be a big screen where like one or two person will be watching the screen as someone programs, just to check for flaws and errors in the code. I can do chess game and Google search its just a matter of time and resources if u want those two i will demand like 20,000 dollars every three months. as for Robotic Arm, that's the work between a mechanical engineer, robotic engineer and a computer programmer, he will be on the software side, like write a program to control the robot. i.e after getting the algorithms from the engineers.
You not a computer science student or an i.t career person please respect field.

_

I smiled a little at this and then stopped.

ikp4succes:

this guy men do you know how many programmers Google alone have. In some companies there will be a big screen where like one or two person will be watching the screen as someone programs, just to check for flaws and errors in the code. I can do chess game and Google search its just a matter of time and resources if u want those two i will demand like 20,000 dollars every three months. as for Robotic Arm, that's the work between a mechanical engineer, robotic engineer and a computer programmer, he will be on the software side, like write a program to control the robot. i.e after getting the algorithms from the engineers.
You not a computer science student or an i.t career person please respect field.

SimonAndal:
_

Oh, good for you! Now create a chess game for me, or program a robotic arm to pick up objects.

Or wait, tell me about the SHA-1 encryption protocol, its flaws and how you can fix them.

Or create Google Search.

Or tell me this: how are cookies passed in the HTTP protocol?

@SimonAndal: I feel you jare...!
All these guys coming here to spew trash!
@ikp4succes: I bet if you manage to create a picture board that re-positions pieces and call it chess it'll hang after I make 3 moves!
All these ignorant guys need to understand that Computer Science is much more than coding!, Software Development is much more than Programming (Implementation) and Programming is much more than Syntaxes.
@ikp4succes and all the other ignorant people here, you guys should go and write a master's scholarship exam for Comp. Sci. grads and then come back and tell me they spent 4-5 years doing nothing relevant. Even I that studied a course closely related to Comp. Sci. have my limits in exams like that!

Nov1ce:
@SimonAndal: I feel you jare...!
All these guys coming here to spew trash!
@ikp4succes: I bet if you manage to create a picture board that re-positions pieces and call it chess it'll hang after I make 3 moves!
All these ignorant guys need to understand that Computer Science is much more than coding!, Software Development is much more than Programming (Implementation) and Programming is much more than Syntaxes.
@ikp4succes and all the other ignorant people here, you guys should go and write a master's scholarship exam for Comp. Sci. grads and then come back and tell me they spent 4-5 years doing nothing relevant. Even I that studied a course closely related to Comp. Sci. have my limits in exams like that!

Can You tell what programming is more about i want to hear your thoughts. Why will i give u a product that hangs after three moves won't i test it first before i give to use or sell. Why do i need to write a master scholarship exam to proof myself. What of if i have the money to pay for it. I didn't say am an expert but for now am following the right track in a years time i be a graduate in Computer science in the States.

BTW download my android app and give me back your review,

http://wl.filegenie.com/~ikp4success/Scrabble%20Cheat.apk

SimonAndal:
_

I smiled a little at this and then stopped.

am curious why did u smile and then stop.

ikp4succes:

am curious why did u smile and then stop.

_

Oh nothing much, just you telling me I'm not qualified to talk about computers nd computer science. It was really hilarious!

Jay5000: Google 1000 random IT job adverts in developed countries and you'll be surprised to see that not a single one requires you to have a university degree. However, university degrees are important in 9ja for just about anything you want to do. Banks require that their security men at least have an OND. Even int'l companies here, on arrival quickly learn to demand for degrees (mainly as a crowd control measure). So it's very important that you get a degree if you plan on working in 9ja. If not, i don't think you'll ever need it in the West, unless you want to teach.

This assumption is absurd. If you wouldn't need a degree in the west to certify your qualifications and ability, why do you think almost all the computer geeks over here in the US want to get a degree from MIT is Information Technology Management taught in these IT-Study centers to an international standard or do you think someone who just knows about database would be employed as the head of a data mining company Go up against a university graduate (1st class or 2nd class upper) from a decent university in a Job interview relating to computer science, then u would see the importance of studying in a university. I like the use of the word "Random" in your post. Most of those "randomly searched IT jobs" are not for graduates because graduates require a "specialized" job so maybe you should search for 1000 "SPECIALIZED OR SPECIALIZATION" IT job adverts in developed countries before you make your assumptions next time. If you have gone Job hunting in Europe then you would know what it means not to have a degree.... U'd be surprised the kind of jobs u'd be offered, except you are lucky

sultanemerald: y'all arguing on here, IT isnt computer science, please. in IT, you cant even get a phd because there are significant limitations. universities have found out some folks are interested in learning how to write softwares and manage databases, so, in a school like Unilag, you can go for a masters in Info tech. but you cant advance to do a phd. like some peeps pointed out, most "programmers" without fundamental knowledge of how the computer works cant even write simple compiler argument. and lots more. so, please, computer science isnt about mysql, html and python.

I assume you are computer science student and I always appreciate seeing fellow field colleagues, but I just want to point out a little lapse in your information. You can actually get a Phd in IT, because Phd is research and in IT the research fields are almost unlimited. If unilag doesn't do a Phd in IT, it doesn't mean there is no Phd in IT. There are over 50 computer related master courses and I am sure unilag doesn't have all of them. Do not conclude just with your university, do your research first before you conclude. Once again, its a pleasure relating with a fellow field colleague

what most people never think of is that university student learn & learn but an I.T man always build. 1stly, taken 'Bill Gate' as an example was a callifonia university "drop out" likewise ORACLE's owner aswell but where is yr Emeritus of Professor in world richest ranking, also take deep look at facebook owner who drop out of school.

This case can go on and on to infinitum... both sides of d debate r right in some ways n wrong in others..my final conclusion:

You can be a programmer without going to any Nigerian university, u can be d next zuckerberg if you know your way around the required languages.. but your big picture will be missing 1 piece, which in NIGERIA is a vital piece to a have an actual job...A CERTIFICATE... make no mistake about it,u can be a freelance developer, u still be fulfilled,who knows u can make one superb site or app n some huge company can see it and buy for top buck..maybe even employ you..Cuz some companies don't care if u attended a school or not..all they want to know is dat u know ur way around a computer n can can solve problems with it..or program software 4 any platform without hasle...its not about weda u went to Harvard or sum tin to do cs,or wat u know in cs...BUT HOW WELL YOU KNOW IT AND CAN APPLY IT TO GIVEN PROBLEMS..

SO...BY MY JUDGMENT, IF U WANT UR RESUME TO BE COMPLETE GET A CS CERTIFICATE, IF YOU WANT TO JUST BE GOOD AT IT, TRAIN URSELF... IF U WANT TO BE A COMPLETE GURU...DO IT ALL..N BETTER STILL, GO ABROAD...N WEN U COME BAK..NA JOB GO DEY FYN U...

bigdot1759: what most people never think of is that university student learn & learn but an I.T man always build. 1stly, taken 'Bill Gate' as an example was a callifonia university "drop out" likewise ORACLE's owner aswell but where is yr Emeritus of Professor in world richest ranking, also take deep look at facebook owner who drop out of school.

Now let us be logical and reasonable here, you have just given examples of distinguished individuals and they happen to be few in a million. If you wanna take your chances with that, fine, but I can assure u that thee probability of you being bill gates or anything close to him is 1/100,000,000. Now you keep saying they were "university" drop outs, it goes a long way to make you understand that they knew the value of an education and instead of going to an "IT-Center" to study, they went to the university to study. It was that university that laid the essential foundation for them to excel. How many of your IT-Center graduates have come close to a regular Income of $50,000 plus or according to you guys talking about creating jobs, how many of them have created high end paying jobs answer is pretty clear for all I know, majority of them end up as cyber cafe owners of computer center owners. If you take your time to read IT journals, you would find out that it is basically the work and research done by highly qualified Dr's and Professors that has actually lead to the high advancement in IT. All these people you have mentioned, their companies would be nothing without the research and steady development of new techniques by qualified professionals, not IT-Center graduates. Simple question for you, what is the best or highest achievement of your Nigerian IT-Center graduates Until you can state one accomplishment for a fact, I think you should have a rethink..... ce fini

CODE-EATER:
This case can go on and on to infinitum... both sides of d debate r right in some ways n wrong in others..my final conclusion:

You can be a programmer without going to any Nigerian university, u can be d next zuckerberg if you know your way around the required languages.. but your big picture will be missing 1 piece, which in NIGERIA is a vital piece to a have an actual job...A CERTIFICATE... make no mistake about it,u can be a freelance developer, u still be fulfilled,who knows u can make one superb site or app n some huge company can see it and buy for top buck..maybe even employ you..Cuz some companies don't care if u attended a school or not..all they want to know is dat u know ur way around a computer n can can solve problems with it..or program software 4 any platform without hasle...its not about weda u went to Harvard or sum tin to do cs,or wat u know in cs...BUT HOW WELL YOU KNOW IT AND CAN APPLY IT TO GIVEN PROBLEMS..

SO...BY MY JUDGMENT, IF U WANT UR RESUME TO BE COMPLETE GET A CS CERTIFICATE, IF YOU WANT TO JUST BE GOOD AT IT, TRAIN URSELF... IF U WANT TO BE A COMPLETE GURU...DO IT ALL..N BETTER STILL, GO ABROAD...N WEN U COME BAK..NA JOB GO DEY FYN U...

You almost summed everything up, but there's one little point I would want to point out about the importance of a degree and I would explain with a little illustration. If a company, lets say google, is recruiting for lets say "A new dimension search engine" and an IT-Center graduate pulls his weight against a university graduate (B.Sc, not masters in any way), if you both impress beyond every reasonable doubt and according to their grading system, you both fall in the same category. If the offer for employment is only for one person, do you really believe that they'd pick an IT center graduate over a Degree holder The answer is simply no, because as a degree holder, you are well grounded in the syntax and semantics of the profession, as an IT-Center graduate, it is assumed u are only grounded in the field you studies i.e. even though you might also be well grounded. My point is simple, there's a reason why its called a university degree.......

Questions to be answered
i. Do you think everybody have the brain to study on their own and know it? Not even a wide course like programming. Computer Science isn't all about programming, there are other aspects that are not programming
ii. The question here is that not everybody can be an entrepreneur when it comes to standalone business and Companies or Firms or Organizations in Nigeria have placed so much value on our School Certificate and that's the main reason why we see people struggling to go to Universities/Polytechnic, etc.
You don't criticize a particular course just because you find someone that can learn it on their own and mind you not everybody can learn Computer Science on their own not even Programming. So there are some basic fundamentals that you'll need to understand, and that's not in place, then it becomes shaky.
Let's have it @ the back of our mind that, all brain are not equal.
Some can learn on their own while some cannot.
Like I said earlier on, we have placed so much value on School Certificates.

expensivestevie:


Now let us be logical and reasonable here, you have just given examples of distinguished individuals and they happen to be few in a million. If you wanna take your chances with that, fine, but I can assure u that thee probability of you being bill gates or anything close to him is 1/100,000,000. Now you keep saying they were "university" drop outs, it goes a long way to make you understand that they knew the value of an education and instead of going to an "IT-Center" to study, they went to the university to study. It was that university that laid the essential foundation for them to excel. How many of your IT-Center graduates have come close to a regular Income of $50,000 plus or according to you guys talking about creating jobs, how many of them have created high end paying jobs answer is pretty clear for all I know, majority of them end up as cyber cafe owners of computer center owners. If you take your time to read IT journals, you would find out that it is basically the work and research done by highly qualified Dr's and Professors that has actually lead to the high advancement in IT. All these people you have mentioned, their companies would be nothing without the research and steady development of new techniques by qualified professionals, not IT-Center graduates. Simple question for you, what is the best or highest achievement of your Nigerian IT-Center graduates Until you can state one accomplishment for a fact, I think you should have a rethink..... ce fini

thanks lot but always remenber that we're in technology age now & now no Professionalism life may smhw hard starting from what u're using now & finally using china as example, can u tell me the any china university in world ranking & hope u know their rank in world developed country.

ikp4succes:

Can You tell what programming is more about i want to hear your thoughts. Why will i give u a product that hangs after three moves won't i test it first before i give to use or sell. Why do i need to write a master scholarship exam to proof myself. What of if i have the money to pay for it. I didn't say am an expert but for now am following the right track in a years time i be a graduate in Computer science in the States.

BTW download my android app and give me back your review,

http://wl.filegenie.com/~ikp4success/Scrabble%20Cheat.apk

I think I stated very well my thoughts on programming when I talked about effective and efficient codes.
As a Comp. Sci. student, I will be extremely disappoined if you tell me any tom, dick and harry coder will write me a chess algorithm that would always win or end in a stale mate as worse case senario. The guy would not know the slightest thing about sample space. If I tell him about alpha-beta pruning he would be looking like dodoyo!
And thats still on algorithm level, coding has not been talked about yet.
Can you write me a method that gives random integers without using the Math.Rand() method in Java?
These are the lines of thought that Comp. Sci. exposes you to.

Nov1ce:
I think I stated very well my thoughts on programming when I talked about effective and efficient codes.
As a Comp. Sci. student, I will be extremely disappoined if you tell me any tom, dick and harry coder will write me a chess algorithm that would always win or end in a stale mate as worse case senario. The guy would not know the slightest thing about sample space. If I tell him about alpha-beta pruning he would be looking like dodoyo!
And thats still on algorithm level, coding has not been talked about yet.
Can you write me a method that gives random integers without using the Math.Rand() method in Java?
These are the lines of thought that Comp. Sci. exposes you to.

wat hapened to java.util.random; pls talk somtin else, if dats wat ur own csc means, den u are nt serious! and if u wnt me to write d full program. I surely will.

Note: I dnt study Csc.

dsypha:



wat hapened to java.util.random; pls talk somtin else, if dats wat ur own csc means, den u are nt serious! and if u wnt me to write d full program. I surely will.

Note: I dnt study Csc.

Haha!
No be person write the algorithm wey dey the back
For example in VB.NET you can predict the random figures that you'll get after a while. So that leads to the question, 'How random is random'
There was a crew in Nigeria that got paid in a mega way becos the wrote and algorithm that would generate millions of 13 digit PINs without repeating a number! Now thats a feat! If it was by using java.util.random to concatenate different different digits then there would be no big deal in doing that.

Nov1ce:
Haha!
No be person write the algorithm wey dey the back
For example in VB.NET you can predict the random figures that you'll get after a while. So that leads to the question, 'How random is random'
There was a crew in Nigeria that got paid in a mega way becos the wrote and algorithm that would generate millions of 13 digit PINs without repeating a number! Now thats a feat! If it was by using java.util.random to concatenate different different digits then there would be no big deal in doing that.

now I get d drift! so as a csc student(not sure u are one) Can u write an algorithm of such?

Nov1ce:
Haha!
No be person write the algorithm wey dey the back
For example in VB.NET you can predict the random figures that you'll get after a while. So that leads to the question, 'How random is random'
There was a crew in Nigeria that got paid in a mega way becos the wrote and algorithm that would generate millions of 13 digit PINs without repeating a number! Now thats a feat! If it was by using java.util.random to concatenate different different digits then there would be no big deal in doing that.

generate a 13 digit pin without repeating a number? Please, don't be offended, could you write down a 13 digit pin for me, and not repeat a digit? or are you trying to say that the pin is alphanumerical? Please, clarify!!

bigdot1759: what most people never think of is that university student learn & learn but an I.T man always build. 1stly, taken 'Bill Gate' as an example was a callifonia university "drop out" likewise ORACLE's owner aswell but where is yr Emeritus of Professor in world richest ranking, also take deep look at facebook owner who drop out of school.

Your solid grasp of English Language, the tremendous ability to engineer your own way of spelling California and "Emeritus of Professor" title are good reasons why we need more than technician-producing IT centre kind of education.

Go get a degree pal and don't skip English lectures..

Cheers

dsypha:



wat hapened to java.util.random; pls talk somtin else, if dats wat ur own csc means, den u are nt serious! and if u wnt me to write d full program. I surely will.

Note: I dnt study Csc.

You apparently dint study csc, we can easily infer that.

Another xteristic of a technician. He knows how to use the java.util.Random class but has Zero understanding of Random numbers..

Get a university degree dude. You've got so much to learn.

R u guys saying that a GOOD IT school can't teach wat a Nigerian uni can teach?

Make una tell me now o...Cuz m planning a very dangerous maneuver..

Nov1ce:
There was a crew in Nigeria that got paid in a mega way becos the wrote and algorithm that would generate millions of 13 digit PINs without repeating a number! Now thats a feat! If it was by using java.util.random to concatenate different different digits then there would be no big deal in doing that.

DharkPoet:
generate a 13 digit pin without repeating a number? Please, don't be offended, could you write down a 13 digit pin for me, and not repeat a digit? or are you trying to say that the pin is alphanumerical? Please, clarify!!

I think what he meant was millions of pin numbers made up of blocks of 13 digit pin numbers without repeating a block of pin number. This can only be achieved by using some Software Engineering Mathematical formulae like the ones below, which are then transferred into any programming language of your choice.

I do commend those who learn programming on their own, but my advice to you is that if you have the opportunity of going to Uni to study Software Engineering or Computer Science please don't throw it away.

It's not necessary to follow the computer science route, even mathematics and engineering have computer science in it . You just have to build on you introduction, comp sci or not.

codeninja:

You apparently dint study csc, we can easily infer that.

Another xteristic of a technician. He knows how to use the java.util.Random class but has Zero understanding of Random numbers..

Get a university degree dude. You've got so much to learn.

who is dis one sef? u dat knw hw it s generated, hw many hav u generated, u, tink u can write crap , jus for d sake of being online... pack wellll! d algorithm generatin d numbers shey na u write am... mtcheeeew!

csharpjava:

I think what he meant was millions of pin numbers made up of blocks of 13 digit pin numbers without repeating a block of pin number. This can only be achieved by using some Software Engineering Mathematical formulae like the ones below, which are then transferred into any programming language of your choice.

I do commend those who learn programming on their own, but my advice to you is that if you have the opportunity of going to Uni to study Software Engineering or Computer Science please don't throw it away.

Word!!! it will hav been beta if every asshole on dis thread can reason the way u do, Respect jare!!

skyfall: Your uncle is misleading you. Computer science is much more than programming and even at that, those Pascal & Fortran languages you're being taught is just laying a foundation, introducing you to what programming is all about & where it started from. Ultimately, only a small % of Comp Sc graduates take up programming and definitely have to go through further training to master it. Programming is like playing a musical instrument. A lot of people show interest but only a few actually master it and end up using it as a profession. There are lots of other things Comp Sc graduates do besides programming.

Why I said he's misleading you is that in Nigeria, no matter what skill you have, you need to have a degree before anyone can give you a decent job. Don't ask me why.

If you're so good that you could become an IT entrepreneur without a degree, no one would have to tell you. You probably would have discovered yourself by now, or will in future. No one had to tell Steve Jobs, Michael Dell or Bill Gates.

Google Computer Sc course content and see what it entails. If you really think it's a waste of time, you can go for an engineering degree and then take up programming as a second interest.

I understand ur point but I will say one simple thing.... u guys are all talking from the point of view that someone has to get a "job " after studying. Dudes the JOB option is one thing the , there are 2 other ways to be efficient in delivering your expertise:.
1. by building a startup eg mark zuckerberg learnt this shit at home including things that were not mainstream programming
2. by selling ur expertise directly eg freelance programmers Who run a simple service for pay business . (self-employed )
NOTE: WHAT irritates me the most is that you guys are talking like the things being taught in the system are world class NOOOOOO it's Nigeria mehn !!!! it's not world class it is BACKWARDS *READ my lips