@kunleoshob

The History of the Church was one of persecution. If you take out persection from the history of the Church you have no Church History.

backslider,what is the diffrence between christianity and the church?

Don't be decieved by the language,this whole thing most of you are carried away with is just a simple concept of change,self freedom through self will,hardwork,selflessness and proclamations.

How diffrent are we today as a people?nothing,we just choose to live in the past and neglect our human responsibilities.

Africa and the whole black world  is in turmoil and people are making it worse with ancient religious dogmas,it is irrelevant,let the order of the day be your religion and use your common sense to even sanitize.

The jews were backward people at the time of christ,now they are no more,still not believing in  christ,but we the mantle bearers are sinking more and more into oblivion.

@Redsun

Christianity is a religion that has many sides.

The True Church Of Jesus Christ is the one He died for in the Cross of Cavalry that is seperate in acts from those proclaiming to be Christian with their mouths.

The Church is seperate from the Hip hop Jazz watered down Gospel that is majorly Accepted today.

if you knew the how the Church was born you would understand that modern day Christianity is a Fraud.

Kunle,

@jeSoul
First of all let me clarify about the post, it is not my origina writing i came across it while doing some bible research.

  Okay got you, thanks for clarifying that.

however i found it to be very eye opening. Why it directly affects every church we have today is that today's Christianity is vastly based on the bible which was compiled by constantine( a pagan emperor) whose motive was to us religion as an instrument of control in his empire.

 I won't get tangled in historical gymnastics because the accounts can vary depending on the historian that wrote from his/her view.
 But,
I'll ask you this simple question:
Do you believe that God is able to keep and retain and sustain the integrity of His word through thousands of years? Do you believe that though Constatine may have been misguided in many of his ways but yet God could've still used him? like He used Pharaoh? Furthermore Constantine did not write the books of the NT, how then can anyone say those books cannot be fully trusted because of Constantines actions?

Todays christianity is based on the bible and rightfully so. Becos the bible is in harmony, the different books teach the same God and the same Jesus. I see all the problems and issues you listed BUT the bible we have teaches against the problems you've mentioned seeing in the "church". I use that in parenthesis because a lot of what people are calling the church today IS NOT really the church of Christ - especially when their actions run contrary to what is commanded in the bible.

 

Also to be noted was that a lot of christian scripture that was written by the apostles and the disciples of christ were deliberately omitted from the bible at that time because they ran counter to the political motives of constantine. you can check out this thread to see the list of books that was delibeately omitted from the bible  https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-143191.0.html this books had spiritual dept and some were written by disciples who worked directly with Jesus.

 Again lets not even muddle with history, I'll ask u a couple simple questions:

- Do you believe God's word cannot and does not contradict itself?
-Do you believe the scriptures teach that God's word is perfect and will never pass away?
If your answers are yes

then if those writings were indeed from the apostles and subsequently from God, whatever was contained in them would not contradict anything we have in the current body of 66books!

So why would you lend credence to the assertion that the church of today is somehow doing things contrary to whatever might have contained in those books? supposing these books were real?

I'm just trying to say that if our current bible has somehow been robbed of its brother and sister books, those other books would still teach the same laws, the same practices, the same lifestlye, and ultimately the same God.

@ KunleOshob
Very Eloquent write up.
I must say that most of all you posted are historically correct. At least in Post number one.
However i take exceptions to the conclusions you have drawn from historical facts. Yes Constantines conversion was false. Yes most christians were deceived by him and the protection he provided. However, that doesnt mean he effectively 'formed' christianity.

For example he did not chose whether directly or by proxy, the books of the bible. The books we have in the bible today were not written by agents of the devil. Quite the contrary. The authors of these books are men whose apostleship have never been in doubt. For those books that you perceive to have been rejected by constantine because they were not in agreement with his political agenda, if they were actually of God, they would not be in contradiction with the already accepted books.

Moreso, like somebody else ( I think Jesoul) said, your generalisation is very wrong. That there are a lot of things going wrong in the church today doesnt mean all those things you wrote can be found in every christian. And not everything you wrote as being wrong is wrong.

God has the power to keep his people, those he has called from the time Jesus left until now. Read the prayer in John 17. If anybody believe that somehow some where the entire church lost its way then tha person is doubting Gods power and promise to keep His people. Same can be said about His word. Since he gave us his word to guide us, it would be against His nature not to ensure that this word is available to His people at all times.

Backslider:

The True Church Of Jesus Christ is the one He died for in the Cross of Cavalry that is seperate in acts from those proclaiming to be Christian with their mouths.

A great point that everyone should duly take note of.

what we are examining in this thread is constatine's influence on how constatine influenced the mordern church through his compilation of the bible

Go and revisit the true history of the Council of Nicea and then revisit this statement of yours.

@jesoul
Please note that i am not suggesting that the bible i wrong or constantine / his agents wrote the bible. What i said is that they compiled the original bible and decided which books should be in it. What i am suggesting is that a lot of scripture is miising and we as christians should be concerned with finding this lost sripture becos were are being robbed of the word of God. I have come across one or two of these books before and they explain things (details) better. For instance if you read the book of genesis, you would discover that it is highly summarised and a lot of details were ommited. these details you can find in the "book of enoch" or "the land of eden" I believe if we had these books we would be able to understand the word of God better and all the fuzzy parts of our current bible would be better explained

For instance if you read the book of genesis, you would discover that it is highly summarised and a lot of details were ommited. these details you can find in the "book of enoch" or "the land of eden" I believe if we had these books we would be able to understand the word of God better and all the fuzzy parts of our current bible would be better explained

again these books were not put together by the Church, this is Jewish history, take that up with the Jews. The books that are in the Torah are included in the Old testament. Constantine did not have a hold on the Jewish books. He had no influence on Judaism. Now why are these particular books that you have listed not included in the Torah?
That is a question for you to research on.

KunleOshob:

@jesoul
Please note that i am not suggesting that the bible i wrong or constantine / his agents wrote the bible. What i said is that they compiled the original bible and decided which books should be in it. What i am suggesting is that a lot of scripture is miising and we as christians should be concerned with finding this lost sripture because were are being robbed of the word of God.

  Okay thanks again for pointing that out. I'm real glad you believe the bible 100%, that gives us common ground to work off. 
 But Kunle why should we be concerned about finding rumored-to-be lost scripture? We have not even scratched the surface of the revelations in the 66books we have, why the need to go hunting for more "scripture"?

 This opens the proverbial can of worms to all kinds of problems. Anybody can show up with a 1000yr old document, book of ______ and call it one of the missing books, how can we know and confirm that it is truly an inspired work of God? what will be the criteria for accepting these so-called scriptures? by which authority can we declare these works to be scripture? and subsequently include them in the canon?

 We don't need anything else my brother, we have more than enough direction and instruction in the bible, all we need for life and righteous living is already in there, why the need to hunt for more? in spite of all the dangers that this crusade may lead to? there is no need for tomb-raiding for lost books, we already have God's word and the holy Spirit to guide us. . . we are not missing anything.

 

I have come across one or two of these books before and they explain things (details) better. For instance if you read the book of genesis, you would discover that it is highly summarised and a lot of details were ommited. these details you can find in the "book of enoch" or "the land of eden" I believe if we had these books we would be able to understand the word of God better and all the fuzzy parts of our current bible would be better explained

 
I don't know about that. Again I say what will be the criteria and authority by which we include any "lost" books into the current canon?
 Oga, the job of the Holy Spirit is to reveal and explain the scriptures to us. (1Jn) We don't need to put ourselves at risk by trusting and looking for the word of God elsewhere when we already have it on our hands. Again I repeat that God is more than able to sustain and retain the integrity of His word as we have it today. Every book and word that we need - God has made sure we have it. Chasing after anything else will only prove futile and extremely dangerous.

I don't know about that. Again I say what will be the criteria and authority by which we include any "lost" books into the current canon?
Oga, the job of the Holy Spirit is to reveal and explain the scriptures to us. (1Jn) We don't need to put ourselves at risk by trusting and looking for the word of God elsewhere when we already have it on our hands. Again I repeat that God is more than able to sustain and retain the integrity of His word as we have it today. Chasing after anything else will only prove futile and extremely dangerous.

Thank you JeSoul for this. I don't know why people want to make things complicated. We have enough in the Bible.
Some of the books that he referenced in the New Testament, I have a copy of them and they honestly do not contradict what is currently in the Bible, so I don't see what the hoopla is all about.

@lady
You keep looking for my trouble allover the place, i did not suggest any of those books contradicted what we have in the bible all i am saying is that there are other inspired books that should have been in the bible that are not there and actually contain a lot of knowledge missing from the bible. Let me ask you a question how much does the bible say about Melchizedec ( priest of the most high) who was compared to Jesus in the book of hebrew?? do you know that some of the missing books covered his ministry?? I would post a list of missing books with biblical references shortly to prove my point further.

Book of Jasher
Joshua 10:13 And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.
2 Samuel 1:18 (Also he bade them teach the children of Judah the use of the bow: behold, it is written in the book of Jasher.)

Book of Enoch
Jude 1:14 And Enoch also, the seventh from Adam, prophesied of these, saying, Behold, the Lord cometh with ten thousands of his saints,

The Manner of the Kingdom / Book of Statutes (Missing)
1 Samuel 10:25 Then Samuel told the people the manner of the kingdom, and wrote it in a book, and laid it up before the Lord. And Samuel sent all the people away, every man to his house.

Book of Samuel the Seer (Missing)
1 Chronicles 29:29 Now the acts of David the king, first and last, behold, they are written in the book of Samuel the seer, and in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the book of Gad the seer,

Nathan the Prophet (Missing)
1 Chronicles 29:29 Now the acts of David the king, first and last, behold, they are written in the book of Samuel the seer, and in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the book of Gad the seer,[/b]2 Chronicles 9:29 Now the rest of the acts of Solomon, first and last, are they not written in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite, and in the visions of Iddo the seer against Jeroboam the son of Nebat?

The Book of the Acts of Solomon (Missing)
1 Kings 11:41 And the rest of the acts of Solomon, and all that he did, and his wisdom, are they not written in the [b]book of the acts of Solomon?

Shemaiah the Prophet (Missing)
2 Chronicles 12:15 Now the acts of Rehoboam, first and last, are they not written in the book of Shemaiah the prophet, and of Iddo the seer concerning genealogies? And there were wars between Rehoboam and Jeroboam continually.

Prophecy of Abijah (Missing)
2 Chronicles 9:29 Now the rest of the acts of Solomon, first and last, are they not written in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite, and in the visions of Iddo the seer against Jeroboam the son of Nebat?

Story of Prophet Iddo (Missing)
2 Chronicles 13:22 And the rest of the acts of Abijah, and his ways, and his sayings, are written in the story of the prophet Iddo.

Visions of Iddo the Seer (Missing)
2 Chronicles 9:29 Now the rest of the acts of Solomon, first and last, are they not written in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the prophecy of Ahijah the Shilonite, and in the visions of Iddo the seer against Jeroboam the son of Nebat?

Iddo Genealogies (Missing)
2 Chronicles 12:15 Now the acts of Rehoboam, first and last, are they not written in the[b] book of Shemaiah the prophet[/b], and of Iddo the seer concerning genealogies? And there were wars between Rehoboam and Jeroboam continually.

Book of Jehu (Missing)
2 Chronicles 20:34 Now the rest of the acts of Jehoshaphat, first and last, behold, they are written in the book of Jehu the son of Hanani, who is mentioned in the book of the kings of Israel.

Sayings of the Seers Here
2 Chronicles 33:19 His prayer also, and how God was intreated of him, and all his sin, and his trespass, and the places wherein he built high places, and set up groves and graven images, before he was humbled: behold, they are written among the sayings of the seers. Book of the Covenant (Missing)
Exodus 24:7 And he took the book of the covenant, and read in the audience of the people: and they said, All that the Lord hath said will we do, and be obedient.
There are those that believe the Book of the Covenant is found in Exodus chapters 20 through 23. There are no authoritative sources for this text.

Book of the Wars of the Lord (Missing)
Numbers 21:14 Wherefore it is said in the book of the wars of the Lord, What he did in the Red sea, and in the brooks of Arnon,
Certain sources believe that this is to be found by drawing text from several Old Testament books. There are no authoritative sources for this text.

Book of Gad the Seer (Missing)
1 Chronicles 29:29 Now the acts of David the king, first and last, behold, they are written in the book of Samuel the seer, and in the book of Nathan the prophet, and in the book of Gad the seer,

Epistle to Corinth Here
1 Corinthians 5:9 I wrote unto you in an epistle not to company with fornicators:

Epistle to the Ephesians (Missing)
Ephesians 3:3 How that by revelation he made known unto me the mystery; (as I wrote afore in few words, 4 Whereby, when ye read, ye may understand my knowledge in the mystery of Christ)
Epistle from Laodicea to the Colossians (Missing)
Colossians 4:16 And when this epistle is read among you, cause that it be read also in the church of the Laodiceans; and that ye likewise[b] read the epistle from Laodicea. [/b]
Nazarene Prophecy Source (Missing)
Matthew 2:23 And he came and dwelt in a city called Nazareth: that it might be fulfilled which was spoken by the prophets, He shall be called a Nazarene.

Acts of Uziah (Missing)
2 Chronicles 26:22 Now the rest of the acts of Uzziah, first and last, did Isaiah the prophet, the son of Amoz, write.

The Annals of King David (Missing)
1 Chronicles 27:24 Joab son of Zeruiah began to count the men but did not finish. Wrath came on Israel on account of this numbering, and the number was not entered in the book of the annals of King David.

Jude, the Missing Epistle (Missing)
Jude 1:3 Beloved, when I gave all diligence to write unto you of the common salvation, it was needful for me to write unto you, and exhort you that ye should earnestly contend for the faith which was once delivered unto the saints.

Chronicles of King Ahasuerus (Missing)
Esther 2:23 And when inquisition was made of the matter, it was found out; therefore they were both hanged on a tree: and it was [b]written in the book of the chronicles before the king.[/b]Esther 6:1 On that night could not the king sleep, and he commanded to bring the book of records of the chronicles; and they were read before the king.

Chronicles of the Kings of Media and Persia (Missing)
Esther 10:2 And all the acts of his power and of his might, and the declaration of the greatness of Mordecai, whereunto the king advanced him, are they not written in the [b]book of the chronicles of the kings of Media and Persia?[/b]Part 2

There are still a lot more but i would stop here for now. I know not all the books might be spiritually inspired but a good number of them were becos the references given to them were spiritual in nature

@lady
You keep looking for my trouble allover the place, i did not suggest any of those books contradicted what we have in the bible all i am saying is that there are other inspired books that should have been in the bible that are not there and actually contain a lot of knowledge missing from the bible. Let me ask you a question how much does the bible say about Melchizedec ( priest of the most high) who was compared to Jesus in the book of hebrew?? do you know that some of the missing books covered his ministry?? I would post a list of missing books with biblical references shortly to prove my point further.

hahaha I guess you can label me a trouble maker then if you want.

I know you didn't say that the books contradicted, my point is that all we have is enough. You're also talking about the Church, you forget the Church wasn't founded until after Christ came. Melchizedek was in the Torah, if you want to talk about that go to the Jews, stop laying it on the Church as if there's some kind of conspiracy.


As for the new testament books seriously man, most are incomplete. How can you have the full story with incomplete books?
Some were written many years after Christ, the Church decided on the ones they know the author and were not written late.
I promise it's like some of the books are attributed to people that were already dead before their book was written. There were way too many false ones, so they decided on the ones they knew were credible.

Why do you have so many topics that pretty much lay on the same issues? Just combine them please, stop wasting space.

Continuation The History of The Church

The emperor Severus may not have been personally ill-disposed towards Christians, but the church was gaining power and making many converts and this led to popular anti-Christian feeling and persecution in Catharge, Alexandria, Rome and Corinth between about 202 and 210. The famed St. Perpetua was martyred during this time, as were many students of Origen of Alexandria.

This is pure history to those who think Christian Living was an European thing.

bible by itself is pure.

The first prophesy is about Christ the Last Prophesy is about Christ.

Revelations 22 Verse

18For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

19And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.

20He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus.

21The grace of our Lord Jesus Christ be with you all. Amen.

At least the early christians were able to convert the highly corrupt, immoral and war-mongering Roman empire, together with its Pagan (and very brutal) Emperor Constantine.


Now, let us face Nigeria. How is it that many of our churches actually aid and abet the looting and maiming of our economy. With the resultant hunger, poverty, disease, ignorance + illiteracy that plague our people.


Obasanjo is a regular church goer, and in fact, preaches sometimes.
He used to lead Sunday morning service at the Aso Rock Chapel when he was president.
He has also written books on prayer and stuff like that.
He is also the most corrupt president we have ever had.
Same goes for many of the jew men that have practically killed this country.
The churches that these corrupt leaders regularly go to should be deeply ashamed of themselves.

Remember Jesus' words "I was hungry and you gave me to eat---"

@imhotep
bros abeg don't come and turn dis thread into a political discussion, if you want to discuss politics you know which section to go. besides it is not every body that shares your propaganda based opinion that Obasanjo is corrupt. In reallity the man is the best preident this country as ever had even though he had his numeous faults(like any human being would) but i won't comment on that statement any further on this thread. You can meet me in the ppolitics section if you want to debate on that.

KunleOshob:

@imhotep
bros abeg don't come and turn this thread into a political discussion, if you want to discuss politics you know which section to go.

Constatine was also a Roman Emperor who discussed politics.

KunleOshob:

besides it is not every body that shares your propaganda based opinion that Obasanjo is corrupt.

And it is not every body that shares your propaganda based opinion that Constantine was corrupt.

KunleOshob:

In reallity the man is the best preident this country as ever had even though he had his numeous faults(like any human being would) but i won't comment on that statement any further on this thread.

In reality Constatine was the best Roman emperor, for he converted to Christianity and defended it.

KunleOshob:

You can meet me in the ppolitics section if you want to debate on that.

But you have been mixing religion and politics in this thread. Why are you suddenly separating them?

@ topic:

The Roman empire was in a serious decline. Constantine's decision to make Christianity the state religion was as much political as it was personal. It was a very shrewd move, and it did help boost the sagging Roman republic.

An Egyptian Pharaoh did something similar with sun worship.

@imhotep
That is politics as relates to the history of the church which is the topic under discussion here. I don't see how your love for Obasanjo relates to this topic

Also, Constantine's meddling into Christianity officially ended the violent and bloody persecution of Christians in the Roman Empire:

- no more burning alive at the stake
- no more being fed to lions and tigers alive
- no more being sawn in half
- no more gladiator fights (to the death!!)
- no more roasting in furnaces
- no more crucifictions
- etc etc

Was this good or bad for Christianity as a whole?

KunleOshob:

@imhotep
That is politics as relates to the history of the church which is the topic under discussion here.

The history of the church is still being written and acted out.

KunleOshob:

I don't see how your love for Obasanjo relates to this topic

Obasanjo is part of the church, and was a very corrupt president.
As president he was a very active member of the church - > and reigned down poverty and hardship on everyone.

Constatine, on the other hand, used his own political influence to further stabilize christianity and encourage its spread. This is a good thing. He should be praised for it.

Constantine and Obasanjo must have had weakness, as we all do. Constantine seemed to have managed his weaknesses better.

Okay go and vote for constatine when the next elections come up

KunleOshob:

Okay go and vote for constatine when the next elections come up

LOL. Unfortunately, Constantine did not believe in democracy.

The man was a full DICTATOR.

His style of dictatorship makes Abacha look like a liberal democrat.

JeSoul:

Okay thanks again for pointing that out. I'm real glad you believe the bible 100%, that gives us common ground to work off.
But Kunle why should we be concerned about finding rumored-to-be lost scripture? We have not even scratched the surface of the revelations in the 66books we have, why the need to go hunting for more "scripture"?

This opens the proverbial can of worms to all kinds of problems. Anybody can show up with a 1000yr old document, book of ______ and call it one of the missing books, how can we know and confirm that it is truly an inspired work of God? what will be the criteria for accepting these so-called scriptures? by which authority can we declare these works to be scripture? and subsequently include them in the canon?

We don't need anything else my brother, we have more than enough direction and instruction in the bible, all we need for life and righteous living is already in there, why the need to hunt for more? in spite of all the dangers that this crusade may lead to? there is no need for tomb-raiding for lost books, we already have God's word and the holy Spirit to guide us. . . we are not missing anything.


I don't know about that. Again I say what will be the criteria and authority by which we include any "lost" books into the current canon?
Oga, the job of the Holy Spirit is to reveal and explain the scriptures to us. (1Jn) We don't need to put ourselves at risk by trusting and looking for the word of God elsewhere when we already have it on our hands. Again I repeat that God is more than able to sustain and retain the integrity of His word as we have it today. Every book and word that we need - God has made sure we have it. Chasing after anything else will only prove futile and extremely dangerous.

My dear these books are not rumoured to be missing there is enough evidence even from the bible that there are missing books (check my earlier post which stated some missing books refered to in the bible) On why we should be interested in finding those books, even though i believe in the bible i know it doesn't answer all questions about our existence, God and the destiny of man. Aslo i believe some things are a bit cumbersome and some are even contradictory. There are alot of unanswered questions. I believe some of these missing books might provide a lot of answers. As i said in an earlier post, i read some excerpts from "the book of enoch" it really explained a lot of things the bible was rather vague on in genesis. I also know for a fact that there are some biblical books deliberately ommited by the catholic church from the bible becos they were considered to be of "higher" spiritual value. Other books were like that of melchizedek (a priest that was compared to Jesus in the book of hebrew) was also deliberately ommited by the catholic church for reasons best known to them. A lot of these books are hidden somewhere in the Vatican. There was a lot of politics attached to the bible in those days. Did you know that the first two people to translate the bible into English were ordered to be burnt at the stake by the catholic church?? Becos the official language approved for the bible then was latin. If you did some research into the oirgins of the bible and how it evolved you would understand my point of view better. Do a google search on the topic, you would be amazed what you would come up with.

God Bless you KunleOshob!!  May you continue to prosper in truth and God's grace. 

I have constantly maintained that Jesus never promised his disciple that he would leave them a canon of books called the bible.  For guidance he promised them that he would send the Holy Spirit to guide them in ALL THINGS.  Apart from reading scriptures to know the will of God the Jews and early christians also used various means of divination.  Paramount for the Jews was the divination system called the Urim, and then there was another called the Thummim.  Then there was the casting of lots which was not specialised and any body could use it.  Stephen was chosen as the 12th disciple by the casting of lots, a system that the first christians were well acquainted with.
A passage - 1 Samuel 14:41 - in the Books of Samuel is regarded by biblical scholars as key to understanding the Urim and Thummim[11]; the passage describes an attempt to identify a sinner via divination, by repeatedly splitting the people into two groups and identifying which group contains the sinner. In the version of this passage in the masoretic text,
From here:http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Urim_and_Thummim

There was also dream interpretation and prophecy.  But the bottomline with all these methods of knowing gods will is that without the holy spirit you will not understand anything.  With the Holyspirit you can even read the Sun newspaper and get the message from God.  You'll find that the entire earth declares the Glory of God.  The feel of breeze on your face will reveal truths to you that you wouldn't imagine. 

But I do not want to go on too much along that path because that is not what I really want to talk about.  I want to talk about the practice of christianity and what christian fellowship involves.  Is the way we practice 'christianity' today actually christianity?  Would any of the christians at pentecost, if they were to come to our modern day nigerian churches, would they recognise what is going on?

I once remarked that everytime I go to church by the time i leave I am famished.  Why?, I ask.  No one seems to have an answer for me.  Is it not the case that christian fellowship involves the sharing of a meal?  Acts 2: 46 And day by day, attending the temple together and breaking bread in their homes, they partook of food with glad and generous hearts, praising God and having favour with all the people.

I repeat that this sharing of a meal is the central ritual of christian fellowship.  Now even by the time of st. Paul this practice had already began to sink into corruption. People were using it to oppress each other.  Those that were rich would bring all kinds of delicacies and sumptious foodstuff to the church while the poor would have to make do with their crackers and cabin biscuits.  This wouldn't matter much if it was still a shared meal but by that time everybody was just bring their own food.  So the rich would eat their grand meals by themselves in one corner while the poor would make do with gnawing on their pako biscuit in another corner.  Does that can only afford wine would just get drunk in another corner.  This is what paul has to say about them in 1Corinthians 11:21 For in eating, each one goes ahead with his own meal, and one is hungry and another is drunk.  What! Do you not have houses to eat and drink in? Or do you despise the church of God  and humiliate those who have nothing?  What shall I say to you? Shall I commend you in this? No, I will not!

I repeat, Christian fellowship is about coming together to share a meal in remembrance of Christ.  Those that are rich will provide the bulk of the meal while those that are poor should just supply what they can.  This is the practice of christian fellowship, not the nonsense that these 'born again' people deceiving themselves with. 
Since the practice of sharing a meal is no longer practised in most churches those rich 'christians' have found another way to despise the church of God  and humiliate those who have nothing.  They now use clothes and fine textiles, and well as parking phat cars in the best parking spaces before taking the high seat in the church congregation.  They  even get opportunities to preach in church!  Imagine that!!

While it is not my place to pass judgement on these people, or anyone for that matter, I think that it is better for them if I admonish them now than leave it to God's judgement.  I say to them, " You are not practising christianity, you are headed for destruction.  Wake up and repent!".

Lest I'm accused of changing the subject, I do believe that discussing how the early christians fellowshipped is in keeping with studying the history of christianity.  Thank you all very much.

But if these people do not want to listen that is their business, I think the important thing is for those of us who do you be aware of true church from fake and continue to work out our salvation with fear and trembling.

The Bible is the most widely distributed book in history, with over 5 billion in circulation, and over 100 million sold every year. There are no figures about how often it is read or quoted from in churches, but certainly it must be the most quoted book in history. As overwhelming as these numbers are, very little has changed concerning the information known about what the Bible actually says, despite the centuries it has been in the public domain. (In 1536, William Tyndale was burned at the stake for translating and printing the holy book in English.) This can be attributed to many factors, but two reasons stand out prominently. One very obvious reason is the rather unique language in the King James Bible prevents English speaking readers form having a clear understanding of the context of this rather extensive book. Another more complicated reason is the doctrinal interpretation of the Catholic Church and its spin-off religions generally known as Protestant churches.
Through the centuries the strict conditioning of members of the "Christian" church, by its leaders, has been constant and almost all doctrine and practice of this church is seldom ever questioned. Any such questioning is strictly forbidden and almost always results in castigation, censure, or expulsion from the church. Close examination reveals that there is good reason for this as the very existence of the church as it is is threatened by any objective research into the book it claims as the foundation for its authority.
There are hundreds of writings known as the "lost books" of the Bible; those books associated with the Bible, but not included in it. One must make a personal judgment about the authenticity of those books, but to condemn all books not included in the King James Bible as uninspired is to accept the Emperor Constantine and the leaders of the early church he founded as direct representatives of God.

King James
      Many claim that the Authorized King James Bible is the inspired work of God, and that all changes and mistranslations are the direct work of God and any research that questions it is wrong.  This is not supported by the historical reality.  King James did not encourage a translation of the Bible in order to enlighten the common people; his intent was to deny them the marginal notes of the Geneva Bible, the favored Bible of the time. The marginal notes of the Geneva version made it popular with the common people and contained over 300,000 words that questioned many concepts of orthodox religion. 
      King James I of England was a devout believer in the "divine right of kings", a philosophy claiming a king's power came from God, thus the king then had to answer to no one but God. The reasoning was that if a king was evil, that was a punishment sent from God. The citizens should then suffer in silence. If a king was good, that was a blessing sent from God. If one considers King James himself as inspired by God, the public record must be considered carefully in that judgment. 
      That record shows King James was a known homosexual, practiced bestiality, proved himself to be a great coward, and was a sadist who personally supervised the torture of those caught up in the witchcraft trials of Scotland. 

      One very important consideration must be weighed.  If there were no translations or commentaries in this work certainly some enlightenment would be missing.  But, the verses contained in the original form, as presented directly from the Authorized King James Bible, are sufficient to back the concepts in this work.  It also must be understood that as the following doctrines and practices of the church are examined, one glaring reality will become clear.  The church ignores the scriptures about those doctrines, properly translated and explained, or not. 

Canon of Scripture
      One of the terms used in describing the books that belong in Scripture is the word canon. This comes from the Greek word ‘kanon’, meaning reed or measurement. A canonical book is one that measures up to the standard of Holy Scripture. Thus, the canon of Scripture refers to the books that are considered the authoritative Word of God.  It was the leaders of the early church who determined which books were canonical. 

What criteria were used in determining which books belong in the Bible?· 

Prophetic Authorship - For a book to be considered canonical, it must have been written by a prophet or apostle or by one who had a special relationship to such (Mark to Peter, Luke to Paul).  Only those who had witnessed the events or had recorded eyewitness testimony could have their writings considered as Holy Scripture.
·  Witness of the Spirit - The appeal to the inner witness of the Holy Spirit.  Clark Pinnock writes: The Spirit did not reveal a list of inspired books, but left their recognition to a historical process in which He was active, God's people learned to distinguish wheat from chaff, and gold from gravel, as He worked in their hearts (Clark Pinnock, Biblical Revelation)
·  Acceptance - The final test is the acceptance of the people of God.

      Again it must be realized that it was the leaders of the early church that made all the above determinations about authorship, whether the Holy Spirit approved it, and who the "people of God" were who accepted them.  No input was ever accepted from the "common" people. 

Who decided which books should be placed in the Bible?   

  The number of books originally considered for inclusion in the Bible is uncertain.  We do know Constantine ordered 50 copies of the Bible to be produced by Eusebius in 325 AD to end any dispute over this, which basically left this important decision to Eusebius alone. This collection set the standard.  The first ecclesiastical councils to classify the canonical books were both held in North Africa-at Hippo Regius in 393 and at Carthage in 397.