landis (m)
Right Here
Posts: 385
Quote
Anywho, I do know that China has gained so much from this war as well, so has India. Should we then conclude that China was in on the war as well? I mean China and India happen to be some of the first to get oil deals from this war.

you still don't see the Big Picture!!!

who are the Big Manufacturer in China?? US companies

who are the major consumers of China goods?? US people

The energy to drive china is the same that produce those goods.

Even Germany that pretends not be on-board provided the 'MAP for Sadam Bunkers' and their company making money in US.

It is all woven together.  It is all same reason they asked OBJ pay $18billion and they will forget the rest of our debt.

I wish we could think like the WEST: Maximise benefit anywhere, everywehere.

noetic:

we need a revolutionarily driven followership that will stand up to propagate what they believe in. but who is ready? and who will lead?

I refuse to think like a whiteman, I choose to think as an intellectual.

Thinking, reasoning, progressive ideas, intellectual disscuss or beautiful ideas is/are not peculiar to any tribe, nation or race be it black or white. knowledge is in abundance for all that seek it.

Any attempt to idolize the white man or promote neo-colonialist ideas in the name of worldbank, imf, or foreingn aids or watever is unpatriotic, intellectually bankrupt, morally debauchive, socially unjustifiable and a reflection of inherent inferiority complex, mentality and aura of thinking. not forgeting hypocrisy.
The ills of nigeria as a nation be it corruption, injustice, underdevelopment, poverty and lack of infastructure are not peculiar to nigeria at this time or in the past. instances or nations that have expirienced similar problems and now have a good tale to tell, applied knowledge with homegrown solutions derived from guts at the detriment of all "other things".

from the uk to the us, switzerland to dubai, saudi arabia to japan, they all have elements of corruption and underdevelopment. this may not be prevalent like ours because of their positive image projection campaign that cost billions of dollars/pounds. but there is an element of greed in every human being. the diffrence between their corruption n that of nigeria is that theirs does not invariably prevent the common man from recievin certain social and basic benefits but our own brand of corruption is a winner takes all approach. notin makes the whiteman special and or unique, notin makes him more intelligent. he only attained civilisation earlier and used it to his benefits, nonetheless he still has his problems.

there are home made suggested solutions already in nigeria and beautiful progresive, intellectually driven ideas are being proposed daily in nigeria within the corridors of power. what is however lacking is the will to aggressivly implement them, this the whiteman cannot do for us. we need a revolutionarily driven followership that will stand up to propagate what they believe in. but who is ready? and who will lead?

I refuse to think like a whiteman, I choose to think as an intellectual.

but who is ready? and who will lead?

we need a revolutionarily driven followership that will stand up to propagate what they believe in. but who is ready? and who will lead?

landis:

you still missing the BIG picture.

how come WEST can get these done and we are asking who will lead, who is ready?

thinking like WEST does not mean you become whiteman but understand how to maxmise benefit your people.

WEST sample:
Germany caused the worst war in recent times for same WEST. Yet US have about 100 nuclear war-heads stored in that country.

African sample:
Nigeria is not willing to allow IGBO president simply because they 'started'/'mastermind' Biafra war.

landis:

you still missing the BIG picture.

how come WEST can get these done and we are asking who will lead, who is ready?

thinking like WEST does not mean you become whiteman but understand how to maxmise benefit your people.

WEST sample:
Germany caused the worst war in recent times for same WEST. Yet US have about 100 nuclear war-heads stored in that country.

African sample:
Nigeria is not willing to allow IGBO president simply because they 'started'/'mastermind' Biafra war.

whats your point?

Someone tell me I am dreaming. Is this the same @landis?  He is speaking my language here

landis:

WEST sample:
Germany caused the worst war in recent times for same WEST. Yet US have about 100 nuclear war-heads stored in that country.

Many US/EU died to stop Germany in 1945 yet they kept 'nuclear weapons' with same Germany.

Dont you see that: WEST will work together since they have no FIXED enermy but FIXED interest(benefit).

Germany did not openly support Iraqi war but they provided all the 'maps of saddam bunckers' to US since they built them.

That's thinking like WEST.

I am anti-west. And no where in my post did i say that.

All I am saying: WEST will do anything for their benefit. It is dog eat dog world but will are too gullible.
They are supporting 'cry baby' MDC not because they love them or love ZIM but to get maximum benefit from this lovely land Zimbabwe.

5yrs down the road, if MDC cannot give them benefits and Mugabe is alive and ready to give them, they will support him again.

noetic:

Thinking, reasoning, progressive ideas, intellectual disscuss or beautiful ideas is/are not peculiar to any tribe, nation or race be it black or white. knowledge is in abundance for all that seek it.

Any attempt to idolize the white man or promote neo-colonialist ideas in the name of worldbank, imf, or foreingn aids or watever is unpatriotic, intellectually bankrupt, morally debauchive, socially unjustifiable and a reflection of inherent inferiority complex, mentality and aura of thinking. not forgeting hypocrisy.
The ills of nigeria as a nation be it corruption, injustice, underdevelopment, poverty and lack of infastructure are not peculiar to nigeria at this time or in the past. instances or nations that have expirienced similar problems and now have a good tale to tell, applied knowledge with homegrown solutions derived from guts at the detriment of all "other things".

from the uk to the us, switzerland to dubai, saudi arabia to japan, they all have elements of corruption and underdevelopment. this may not be prevalent like ours because of their positive image projection campaign that cost billions of dollars/pounds. but there is an element of greed in every human being. the diffrence between their corruption n that of nigeria is that theirs does not invariably prevent the common man from recievin certain social and basic benefits but our own brand of corruption is a winner takes all approach. notin makes the whiteman special and or unique, notin makes him more intelligent. he only attained civilisation earlier and used it to his benefits, nonetheless he still has his problems.

there are home made suggested solutions already in nigeria and beautiful progresive, intellectually driven ideas are being proposed daily in nigeria within the corridors of power. what is however lacking is the will to aggressivly implement them, this the whiteman cannot do for us. we need a revolutionarily driven followership that will stand up to propagate what they believe in. but who is ready? and who will lead?

I refuse to think like a whiteman, I choose to think as an intellectual.

Big B1:


Nigerians represent the obstacles blocking the progress of Nigeria. And we all have the key to the birth of a new Nigeria, but we're not willing to realize it.
Absolutely, no need to follow the west.

attempts at cabon-copying western ideas, practices,policies and programmes have failed in nigeria.

landis:


It means: in any situation seek benefit for your people. How you do it depends on your style.

Nig: what benefit did we get or set to get when we supported ANC during apartheid?

noetic:

I m tempted to ask that what really works in the west that has not been importd to nigeria and has worked ?

noetic:


Even the british in colonizing nigeria, attempted originality. They created a regional system of government, where the developmental process created healthy economic rivalry for the advancement of democracy. this form of government is not prevalent in d world.
did this regional system not work? must we now use the american presidential system?

noetic:


it works in america but it has breeded godfathers and sons in nigeria.

noetic:


Iwu borrowed the western electronic voting system, u saw d disaster. even in london here, voting by post(i.e postal mail) was used during the last mayoral election just to accomodate the societal diversity which reflects illitracy n inconvinience.

noetic:

where do u think policies like the universal basic education of obasanjo originate from? y were rural communities not put into consideration or y are they not beneficiaries?

noetic:


the concept of privatisation? is that not the foothpath of capitalism promoted by the west? was atiku's privatisation not a disaster?

noetic:

the continuos capitalist traits of tendering and awarding all government projects in form of contracts has breeded corrupt moguls and institutions like julius berger, aliko dangote to name a few. thus widening the gap between d rich and d poor.

noetic:

capitalism has made sure we have 500 people feeding from adedibu's residence daily, capitalism has ensured that we have 70% of nigerians living under $1 a day.

noetic:


are the libyans, saudi's, chinese and others who have ameliorated the livin conditions of their people capitalists? where then did we get the concept of capitalism from?

noetic:

I m sayin lets stop copying and pasting.

In the name of western economic empowerment programmes like the social security, obasanjo brought PAP (poverty alleviation program)
it was a disaster, they ended up distributing "okadas" and "keke napep".

noetic:

do u remeber the health insurance scheme for workers obj started in d mould of wats applicable in germany? do u know what has bcom of it?
the major disaster facing nigerian present crop of leaders is lack of originality.

Kobojunkie:

huh??
I hope you see the problem in this yourself. I am not sure if anyone is saying the American presidential system is the way it has to be. All that has been said so far is for us to start thinking more like the west and taking what works and applying it effectively to our own benefit.

Interesting that you already have this conclusion only 9 years into democracy in Nigeria. You sure the problem is the system itself or the fact that we recycle corrupt leaders?? Come on, be sincere here. Are you able to tell me, without a shadow of a doubt that democracy, which I will assume is the American system you refer to, is what we have in Nigeria today?? ROFLMAO!! I mean with a straight face, can you say that??

So electronic voting, even though it works well in so many areas but somehow iwu brought it into a country where technology is not as developed, should never be applied in Nigeria??

Should we then conclude that computers should be abolished as we have scammers a plenty who use it?? I really don’t get what you mean there. Are you saying electronic voting is bad??

Interesting!! So, Universal basic education, which in essence implies all persons get basic education available to them, should be cast out just because Obasanjo decided to selectively deny some people right to this? Do you see the mistake you are making here?? Is the System the problem or Obasanjo himself??

Privatization has not worked in Nigeria and should be thrown out because corrupt persons (whom we have known from the beginning to be bad leaders) keep misusing these ideas for their private interests? So Privatization is hence to blame for Atiku’s ineptitude??

So the very fact that the corrupt government officials continue to award contracts to selective few is not the problem but privatization is?

But the move towards capitalism in Nigeria is less than a decade old. Over 500 people have been feeding off of rich corrupt individuals in that country for decades before that. Is Capitalism still to blame for the same problem existing before 2000?

May I ask why capitalism seems to be your only problem here?? Does copying what works in the west essentially default to capitalism?? Because I remember I did add copying from even China, a country that itself copied from the west to get it where it is today. If China copied from the west and, according to you is not capitalistic, why are you harping on capitalism and trying to make it the problem?? So because Obasanjo bungled the plan,

because obasanjo bugled the plan we don’t need social security of any sort in Nigeria?

I disagree with you on what the major problem facing the leaders is. I used to have health insurance in that same country, as a kid. It was through my dad’s company and we enjoy it much too. We went to the clinic a lot as kids and, I would hope my own kids enjoy the same benefit as Nigerians. So is health insurance the mistake here or the fact that the leaders continue to bungle simple ideas??

I have to say that you have yet to give me a serious example of implementation of what works in the west that we have applied to date but you have succeeded at giving me tons of examples of how inept our leaders have remained and have they have taken on simple plans and twisted and maimed the people even more in the name of progress. Two completely different things.

I can however give you an example of a plan from the west that was implemented and I hope many still enjoy it to date. Obafemi Awolowo’s free-Education-for-all program. I happen to have been one of those who benefitted from that program; free books, free uniform, good jobs for teachers, free education from primary school level up to High school level. Even though some will argue that he did it mainly for his own tribe, you have to admit, that it worked. Everywhere you go today, you mean more Nigerian Yoruba’s in high seats today that benefitted from that program. Sure, after his death, it sort of went the way most things do in Nigeria. Not as much funding and what not but it worked while it was funded and effectively pursued. He knew that it was not just about applying the idea but maintaining it as much as he could. The Jakande buildings helped a great deal. Made sure that education reached those who were in remote areas, at low cost. I happen to know because I also went to school at one point in a village in the middle of nowhere. LMAO!!

So please, can we not turn this into another ANTI-WEST thread and be sincere with ourselves in this debate. Instead of trying hard to blame it all on the west even when it does not make sense to, can we be honest enough to pin point what the actual problem is.

noetic:

I don't dispute the fact that we have a failed leadership.
but the plans could also never have worked, because they do not put the nigerian nature into consideration.

meaning bad leadership + western policy = failure

bad leadership + locally breed policy = average e.g option A4

good leadership + locally breed policy = success

"But you can't run away from such comparison in this age of globalisation. You use the same technology as the white man, you are setting up global banks, your country is trying to play big in the international market, your people want to live by international standards, your government wants Direct Foreign Investment, your footballers are playing in Europe. We are either part of the world or we are not. And my argument is that we do not have the right attitude, we are not bringing the right attitude to the world of competition. National growth is about attitude"