@ PAGAN 9JA: I agree. If only Christians had an inkling of how mych they owe to pagans. They would keep shut before castigating them.

@ PAGAN 9JA: I agree. If only Christians had an inkling of how mych they owe to pagans: for example the fathers of philisophy amongst others eg Plato, Aristotle, Parminedes etc were pagans. They would keep shut before castigating them.

@ Okeyxyz: It's sad to see you think atheism is justified in the absence of the Cheistian religion.

THnx brother.

Pagans started Maths , Science, Philosophy, Astrology, Alchemy (ancient Chemistry), Surgery, etc.'


Pagans discovered how to make fires and how to build the first wheels.

True Humanity is Pagan. Paganism is humanity.

Bump ! Need to get things going on here.

PAGAN 9JA:
THnx brother.

Pagans started Maths , Science, Philosophy, Astrology, Alchemy (ancient Chemistry), Surgery, etc.'


Pagans discovered how to make fires and how to build the first wheels.

True.

@topic yes. i am proof.

*Kails*:


True.

@topic yes. i am proof.

We both know that

Uyi Iredia:

We both know that

Yup.

You can't believe in God without a religion. The way of life is the means and religion is the end.

So, christianity/Islam/paganism/hinduism e.t.c are religions.

Even Atheism is a religion! The only thing is that atheists don't believe in ORGANIZED religion.

okeyxyz:

That's because, knowing what I know now; I've come to realize that all religions, spirituality and God-consciousness are derived from the true christian doctrine(I don't mean conventional christianity). Every religion or God-consciousness is a shadowy imitation of christianity. It doesn't matter whether these religions came before or after christianity. They all see christ principle, they know it works and rules the universe but they do not understand this christ principle, so they are all groping in the dark to find the best fit to this christ doctrine. Like I said before; it doesn't matter that your religion came before christianity, it is still derived from christian doctrine, just like Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, david, Moses, etc(even the law of Moses), saw the promise/vision of christ thousands of years before christ eventually appeared on earth, so their faith is based on christ even though their religion/belief system was not christian. So it is with Islam, paganism, occult doctrines, etc, these are all trying to get a best fit to that vision/principle of christ that they see but do not understand, and all they can do is speculate and dogmatize. So without christianity, no religion would even exist in the first place. Just like without the substance, the shadow will not exist.

So without christ, atheism would be the only thing that makes sense.

wat a senseless comment

@PAGAN, @Uyi, @macof

I expect this sort of reaction from you guys. It's the normal reaction you get from a conventional minded person(the bible says carnal minded ). You minds have been trained to think in a linear, physical, scientific manner and you reject any other form of reasoning that does not fall in line. However, spiritual people like moi understand there are other forms of operations apart from what is physically/scientifically or conventionally acceptable.

Now conventional thinking tell us that if Mr-A was born before Mr-B, then Mr-A is older and deserves more respect than Mr-B right? But spiritual people know it is not necessarily so. Take the yoruba traditional regard for twins for instance, they know that though taiwo was born before kehinde, but actually kehinde is the older of the two, and that he(kehinde) sent taiwo to check-out the world first before he(kehinde) comes out. Nice!! init?? . Jesus also understood this principle when he said "before Abraham was born, I am.."(John 8:58) , and the people then thought him to be insane, just like you guys think I am insane by writing what I wrote (mehn!!, I'm on fire!! ). So the fact that one person or institution came before another does not necessarily mean it is more authentic than the later. It could be that the later sent the former to prepare the way for it's(the later) arrival. This principle is universal in all spheres of hierarchy, eg: You don't go to see the president directly, you must first go through his protocol officers, secretaries, security, etc. That you have seen these other officers first does not make them more authoritative than the president. This is how it is with spiritual matters too.

So pagans discovered science, mathematics, medicine, etc, I don't dispute this. My position is that these things must first be in place before the true christ doctrine(again, not conventional christianity, it seems you missed this emphasis in my second post) arrives.

I have a million more mysteries I could share with you guys, but you wouldn't understand them, they'd be foolishness to you. (Matthew 7:6, 1 Corinthians 2:14)

okeyxyz: @PAGAN, @Uyi, @macof

I expect this sort of reaction from you guys. It's the normal reaction you get from a conventional minded person(the bible says carnal minded ). You minds have been trained to think in a linear, physical, scientific manner and you reject any other form of reasoning that does not fall in line. However, spiritual people like moi understand there are other forms of operations apart from what is physically/scientifically or conventionally acceptable.

Now conventional thinking tell us that if Mr-A was born before Mr-B, then Mr-A is older and deserves more respect than Mr-B right? But spiritual people know it is not necessarily so. Take the yoruba traditional regard for twins for instance, they know that though taiwo was born before kehinde, but actually kehinde is the older of the two, and that he(kehinde) sent taiwo to check-out the world first before he(kehinde) comes out. Nice!! init?? . Jesus also understood this principle when he said "before Abraham was born, I am.."(John 8:58) , and the people then thought him to be insane, just like you guys think I am insane by writing what I wrote (mehn!!, I'm on fire!! ). So the fact that one person or institution came before another does not necessarily mean it is more authentic than the later. It could be that the later sent the former to prepare the way for it's(the later) arrival. This principle is universal in all spheres of hierarchy, eg: You don't go to see the president directly, you must first go through his protocol officers, secretaries, security, etc. That you have seen these other officers first does not make them more authoritative than the president. This is how it is with spiritual matters too.

So pagans discovered science, mathematics, medicine, etc, I don't dispute this. My position is that these things must first be in place before the true christ doctrine(again, not conventional christianity, it seems you missed this emphasis in my second post) arrives.

I have a million more mysteries I could share with you guys, but you wouldn't understand them, they'd be foolishness to you. (Matthew 7:6, 1 Corinthians 2:14)

and who told u I don't believe in spirituality? Pls mr. Man ur points here are really irrelevant.
Christianity is supposed to be all about Salvation, u guys believe the world is an evil place, and only when u believe in Jesus can u make heaven. Some complete morons even refer to the dead Jew as God. Imagine the insult to my fathers personality, putting him on the same level as a common prophetic individual. I choose not to downgrade Jesus for I respect him and love his teachings, he lived a wonderful life of love which humans should imitate but saying his the only son of God, the only way to heaven is complete nonsense.

As everyone existed as a spiritual being before coming to earth so did Jesus. So his statement about him being before Abraham is no point to justify that other religions copy Christian doctrine and existed only to make way for christianity. I might as well have existed before Abraham, my soul has undergone numerous recycling and reincarnations. Or do u think God creates new souls everyday?

Every religion has what it's based on, it's purpose. Christianity-salvation(which churches don't preach anymore, it's all about casting out demons and praying for wealth and health). Buddhism-avoid suffering. Chinese religion- reunion with ancestors. Hinduism-reincarnation. Greek religion: pleasant life. Islam: paradise. Judaism- Aborisha-accomplishment of ones destiny. All these religions are of different purposes so how do they preach Christian doctrine? In fact no religion in the world agrees with christianity.

Uyi Iredia:

I ask because usually a belief in God is associated with religion. For a couple of months, I have rejected Christianity and proclaimed deism whilst intent on switching soon to yet another stance for a while. But then, I want to ask everyone in particular Christians and Muslims.

• If your religion (or way of life for Christians Bible reading, praise/worship, Holy Communion etc, for Muslims, Koran reading, Ramadan, tarawijd) died today, would you believe in God ?

• Is it compulsory that prophets eg Muhammad (PBUH) or Jesus (The Son of God) must come before we assume a Creator behind Nature ?

• What problems do you find with people who disbelieve in organised religion irrespective of stance ?

Your answers are welcome.

Edited (because of answers about Christianity being a 'way of life' and not a religion)

Is this the descent of the mordernists?

macof:

and who told u I don't believe in spirituality? Pls mr. Man ur points here are really irrelevant.
Christianity is supposed to be all about Salvation, u guys believe the world is an evil place, and only when u believe in Jesus can u make heaven. Some complete morons even refer to the dead Jew as God. Imagine the insult to my fathers personality, putting him on the same level as a common prophetic individual. I choose not to downgrade Jesus for I respect him and love his teachings, he lived a wonderful life of love which humans should imitate but saying his the only son of God, the only way to heaven is complete nonsense.

As everyone existed as a spiritual being before coming to earth so did Jesus. So his statement about him being before Abraham is no point to justify that other religions copy Christian doctrine and existed only to make way for christianity. I might as well have existed before Abraham, my soul has undergone numerous recycling and reincarnations. Or do u think God creates new souls everyday?

Every religion has what it's based on, it's purpose. Christianity-salvation(which churches don't preach anymore, it's all about casting out demons and praying for wealth and health). Buddhism-avoid suffering. Chinese religion- reunion with ancestors. Hinduism-reincarnation. Greek religion: pleasant life. Islam: paradise. Judaism- Aborisha-accomplishment of ones destiny. All these religions are of different purposes so how do they preach Christian doctrine? In fact no religion in the world agrees with christianity.

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

Every false religious expression is a proposal of darkness.

Actually, that should be the ascent of the modernists..

aManFromMars:

Actually, that should be the ascent of the modernists..

Do you mean this kind of ascent?

OLAADEGBU:

Is this the descent of the mordernists?

To some extent you are correct. I am currently at the lowest rung in that flight of stairs. I will hang around there for awhile.

OLAADEGBU:

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

Every false religious expression is a proposal of darkness.

In fact, Jesus is a corruption of his real name, Yeshua.

Uyi Iredia:

To some extent you are correct. I am currently at the lowest rung in that flight of stairs. I will hang around there for awhile.

The lowest rung is agnosticism, atheism doesn't exist, its a mirage.

Uyi Iredia:

In fact, Jesus is a corruption of his real name, Yeshua.

It doesn't make any difference. He answers to both.

Uyi Iredia: I ask because usually a belief in God s associated with religion. For a couple of months, I have rejected Christianity and proclaimed deism whilst intent on switching soon to yet another stance for a while. But then, I want to ask everyone in particular Christians and Muslims.

Yea! All started with our Fathers who live right from when human race begins.....I mean religion.

• If your religion (or way of life for Christians Bible reading, praise/worship, Holy Communion etc, for Muslims, Koran reading, Ramadan, tarawijd) died today, would you believe in God ?

Don't be shocked with my point here, if Christianity died today that'd be the end of the world....

Is it compulsory that prophets eg Muhammad (PBUH) or Jesus (The Son of God) must come before we assume a Creator behind Nature ?

People of ages have known God exists but Christ only came to redeem us from death caused by First Man.

What problems do you find with people who disbelieve in organised religion irrespective of stance ?

No problem, I just always praye for them so that God can shine His light on them. Like I always say if not that God has revealed HIMSELF to me I might be the one in position of LB or Ooman today.

answers are welcome.

OK!

Edited (because of answers about Christianity being a 'way of life' and not a religion)

Well to me oooo

Christianity is not even a "way of life" because it limited its everlasting reign (I mean life itself). I will only say you're right when you say is a "way to life etenal".

Way of life to me means a guide on how people should live their life" which many religion practice, and If this is true then the LAWs are Ok then but to God the case is differrent which has made Him sent a SAVIOUR.


Shalom!

OLAADEGBU:

"Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is no other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved" (Acts 4:12).

Every false religious expression is a proposal of darkness.

that's the same way I'll tell u that NO MAN NEEDS SAVING, we would all return to where we came from in the first place: HEAVEN

OLAADEGBU:

It doesn't make any difference. He answers to both.

lol. So if ur real name was Johnson and I call u Fred u would answer?

Emusan:

Yea! All started with our Fathers who live right from when human race begins.....I mean religion.



Don't be shocked with my point here, if Christianity died today that'd be the end of the world....



People of ages have known God exists but Christ only came to redeem us from death caused by First Man.



No problem, I just always praye for them so that God can shine His light on them. Like I always say if not that God has revealed HIMSELF to me I might be the one in position of LB or Ooman today.



OK!



Well to me oooo

Christianity is not even a "way of life" because it limited its everlasting reign (I mean life itself). I will only say you're right when you say is a "way to life etenal".

Way of life to me means a guide on how people should live their life" which many religion practice, and If this is true then the LAWs are Ok then but to God the case is differrent which has made Him sent a SAVIOUR.


Shalom!

every religion claims to be eternal, a continuous system of life, even Buddhism dat tries to end reincarnation, rather introduce reinvention. after being reinvented that's still not the end of Buddhism, as long as u have life u most seek knowledge. That's just a point to show that other religions have a more solid claim to eternal existence.

And what exactly do u people gain by raising urself above other religions? u are just a Jewish slave nothing more but probably something even less. Ur use of "shalom" proves alot

*sigh* so many writers on this forum. I don't believe you can believe in "God" without belonging to a religion. What God? On the other hand, I know people who believe in a supernatural being without necessarily defining it as "God" more like a guardian angel. Not too sure if that makes any sense. Now that's my input. I don't believe in god or anything of the sort

macof: evry religion claims to be eternal, a continuous system of life, even Buddhism dat tries to end reincarnation, rather introduce reinvention. after being reinvented that's still not the end of Buddhism, as long as u have life u most seek knowledge. That's just a point to show that other religions have a more solid claim to eternal existence.

I know sir, but Jesus is still alive today so everything has cleared by me.

And whatu exactly do u people gain by raising urself above other religions? u are just a Jewish slave nothing more but probably something even less. Ur use of "shalom" proves alot

Thanks Sir:

Who am I to raise myself above other religion?
But the truth still remain; Jesus has come and died, and went back to where He was before, it's let for poeple to make their choice.

So using Shalom now is making you angry.....I'm sorry for that but it simply means " Peace"

Shalom!

Emusan:

I know sir, but Jesus is still alive today so everything has cleared by me.



Thanks Sir:

Who am I to raise myself above other religion?
But the truth still remain; Jesus has come and died, and went back to where He was before, it's let for poeple to make their choice.

So using Shalom now is making you angry.....I'm sorry for that but it simply means " Peace"

Shalom!

Jesus is still alive today , I believe that but so is Sango and all my ancesstors.

Jesus came and died, went back to where he came from. Good point. But that applies for every living entity. We all have duties to play here on earth, we would all definitely go back to where we came from, just like Jesus, whether u believe in the Jew or not, it doesn't matter.

And yes am angry at the use of that word because u rather than use a Hebrew word as ur signature prefix, u should use a word of ur own language

macof: Jesus is still alive today , I believe that but so is Sango and all my ancesstors.

Jesus came and died, went back to where he came from. Good point. But that applies for every living entity. We all have duties to play here on earth, we would all definitely go back to where we came from, just like Jesus, whether u believe in the Jew or not, it doesn't matter.

And yes am angry at the use of that word because u rather than use a Hebrew word as ur signature prefix, u should use a word of ur own language

OK Sir I have heard you. ....let's pay attention @Op.....heh

Lol....you're angry because I'm using SHALOM.,.wonder shall never end. Just try to bear it with me pls.


Shalom!

Mikhaela: *sigh* so many writers on this forum. I don't believe you can believe in "God" without belonging to a religion. What God? On the other hand, I know people who believe in a supernatural being without necessarily defining it as "God" more like a guardian angel. Not too sure if that makes any sense. Now that's my input. I don't believe in god or anything of the sort

Oh please ! Deists believe in God without belonging to a religion. Unless you would argue that deism is a religion.

Emusan:

OK Sir I have heard you. ....let's pay attention @Op.....heh

Lol....you're angry because I'm using SHALOM.,.wonder shall never end. Just try to bear it with me pls.


Shalom!

it's really non of my business but it shows ur mis-identify and slave mindedness

okeyxyz: @PAGAN, @Uyi, @macof

I expect this sort of reaction from you guys. It's the normal reaction you get from a conventional minded person(the bible says carnal minded ). You minds have been trained to think in a linear, physical, scientific manner and you reject any other form of reasoning that does not fall in line. However, spiritual people like moi understand there are other forms of operations apart from what is physically/scientifically or conventionally acceptable.

Now conventional thinking tell us that if Mr-A was born before Mr-B, then Mr-A is older and deserves more respect than Mr-B right? But spiritual people know it is not necessarily so. Take the yoruba traditional regard for twins for instance, they know that though taiwo was born before kehinde, but actually kehinde is the older of the two, and that he(kehinde) sent taiwo to check-out the world first before he(kehinde) comes out. Nice!! init?? . Jesus also understood this principle when he said "before Abraham was born, I am.."(John 8:58) , and the people then thought him to be insane, just like you guys think I am insane by writing what I wrote (mehn!!, I'm on fire!! ). So the fact that one person or institution came before another does not necessarily mean it is more authentic than the later. It could be that the later sent the former to prepare the way for it's(the later) arrival. This principle is universal in all spheres of hierarchy, eg: You don't go to see the president directly, you must first go through his protocol officers, secretaries, security, etc. That you have seen these other officers first does not make them more authoritative than the president. This is how it is with spiritual matters too.

So pagans discovered science, mathematics, medicine, etc, I don't dispute this. My position is that these things must first be in place before the true christ doctrine(again, not conventional christianity, it seems you missed this emphasis in my second post) arrives.

I have a million more mysteries I could share with you guys, but you wouldn't understand them, they'd be foolishness to you. (Matthew 7:6, 1 Corinthians 2:14)

Actually the Persians saw generations marked by a prophetic coming. Zoroaster, Jesus, Mohammed, Ahmad, Joseph Smith etc. Christianity makes a lot of sense within the overarching context. However for you to extract Christianity from the motley of religions and proclaim it as the true religion without justification is mere bigotry (that reaches Olaadegun's level)

Can there be a proper belief in a deity without religion. I'd say no.

My reason being that: Religion creates a communication with the deity. The rituals, the prayers, the sacrifices relate to this fact, and our understanding of the deity flows down this same channel. Even for deists like Thomas Paine, he spoke of positive sciences in a religious manner.

macof:

lol. So if ur real name was Johnson and I call u Fred u would answer?

So if your real name is Boniface and I call you Babylon does that change who you are? If I say that you (Babylon) should come and collect £1bn that a billionaire left for you will you say not me?