Messi j: U mean it? And many of ur fore fathers who worshiped ifa of which present worshippers are no match with, were bought or taking into slavery with a piece of mirror, a boltte of gin and other minor things and D ifa that knw BODMAS couldnt teach them wht those things D white gave them were. Worst of it were, D main juju or Idol carved or cast and kept in inner shirine were joyfully taking by the white as artifacts, as they were curious abt civilization. Only to be realesed aftr u ppl were groomed to civilization to knw wht is right and this civilization and human right is highly forstered by D werstern religion. And if nt 4 it, u this poster should have jumping on tress with D monkey, u will still be half naked and still killing twins.

Messi j: U mean it? And many of ur fore fathers who worshiped ifa of which present worshippers are no match with, were bought or taking into slavery with a piece of mirror, a boltte of gin and other minor things and D ifa that knw BODMAS couldnt teach them wht those things D white gave them were. Worst of it were, D main juju or Idol carved or cast and kept in inner shirine were joyfully taking by the white as artifacts, as they were curious abt civilization. Only to be realesed aftr u ppl were groomed to civilization to knw wht is right and this civilization and human right is highly forstered by D werstern religion. And if nt 4 it, u this poster should have jumping on tress with D monkey, u will still be half naked and still killing twins.

Katsumoto:

This comment is ignorant on so many levels

1. Were Christians, Muslims, Buddhists, Hindu worshippers, etc not taken as as slaves? It isn't stated anywhere that your religion or beliefs can prevent you being taken into slavery

2. Slavery sometimes require some kind of barter if it isn't achieved through conquest.

3. I am curious to know which Ifa artifacts were taken by the Brits; you have to share.

4. Perhaps in your part of Africa, the Europeans met your forefathers half-naked and jumping from trees with monkeys but the people of SW Nigeria were fully clothed before the arrival of Europeans. It is imbecility of the highest order to assume that everyone lived in caves like your fore-fathers.

5. Twins were not killed in any part of Yorubaland; in fact the incidence of twins in Yorubaland is amongst the highest in the world, if not the highest.


Word of advice - before you jump into the middle of an intellectual exercise, basic ability to read and write properly should be a minimum attainment for you. Your post is laden with all kinds of errors.

Leward: What are you all saying, most of you are displaying a higher level of ignorance than sincere9girian, Esu? [s]He is supposed to be the most powerfull and most wicked god among the lesser gods and you want us to revive him? His sacrifises are primitive and expensive(in terms of palm oil, chickens and so on, i think sometimes humans are need if he has been vexed),[/s] i didnt get these facts from films, these are what i was taught so no ajebutter born and bred in the city should open his smelly ignoramus mouth to say what he doesn't know,the worship of Esu is characterised with fear, ask any yoruba professor you knw especially those in UI. Btw BH and Esu, BH is better, atleast the death is less painful and humiliating

Leward:
dude, you must have read your books upside down cos you got everything mixed up.
1. There were no local christians during the slave era.
2. what is the meaning of this? It doesn't really make much sense.
3. After the slave era, during the wars of colonisation btw local fighters and soldiers, interesting cultural relics were taken. Get a good history text...or google is your friend.
4. Let's assume he exaggerated with that one.
5. All he is trying to say is that all these traditional beliefs begets superstitions. We have our own. Be reasonable.

Word of advice- before you reply a comment, think and analyse it well with an open mind.

Mayor_of_Lagos: Kats, please rest your shotgun for now. I have had a tremendous and delightful time watching you hunt and bring these antelopes down one after the other.

Desola, I wonder why andre, sincere and ngwakwe failed to watch the videos and if they did why they are tongue tied.

While Kats uses the hairline and trigger approach to fall the game, Desola decapitates with her flying blade.

We shall colonize Ibos by the grace of Oduduwa.

Katsumoto:

1. Do you see how you expose your ignorance? Do you think only Africans were enslaved? Or what slave era are you referring to? Did I state that I was restricting my catchment area to Africa alone? Or did the presence of Hindu worshippers and Buddhists not give you a proper context?

2. If you don't know the meaning of barter, I suggest you pick up a dictionary. In any case, barter means the exchange of goods without the use of money. I was simply implying that slaves are exchanged for another product or service - mirrors, umbrellas, sack of potatoes, etc.

3. Are you blind? Did you not read where he stated that carvings were taken from shrines. Natural relics were taken yes but since his comment was about Ifa, I want him to elucidate further without regards to Ifa artifacts that were taken.

4. [size=16pt]My point stands - his forebearers may have been unclad and jumping from tree to tree with monkeys; that's no reason to assume that others were.[/size]

5. Juxtaposing practices from different eras and areas to prove a point is both lazy and intellectually fraudulent. Any criticism of a practice or culture must be restricted to that culture. What has what happened in Calabar be applied to Yorubaland? Or was Mary Slessor working in SW Nigeria?

You should take your own advice. If you had taken your own advice, you would have realized that slavery was not restricted to Africa.

Where are all these new monikers springing out from?

Andre Uweh: Mr Aregbesola has a very good idea here. But it should not be introduced in secondary schools but in the universities in Osun state just like philosophy is introduced in secondary schools but in universities.
The state should lay more emphasis on those areas Tomakint earlier highlighted in this thread.

Authors: Frank Dodd (Tony) Smith Jr.

Ancient Africa developed IFA divination with 256 Odu analagous to the Real Clifford Algebra Cl( 8 ) and 16 Orishas analagous to the 8+8 Spinors of Cl( 8 ) but in Africa IFA was transmitted by oral tradition and not written down.

Humans emerging from Africa via the Arabian Sea settled in nearby India where ideas of IFA were written in the Sanskrit Rig Veda and encoded in Pachisi. By about 500 B.C. Pachisi evolved into Tarot. By about 1300 A.D. Tarot and some ideas of IFA were known in Mallorca where Ramon Llull used them to develop structures of the D4 and D8 Lie Algebras that lived in the IFA Clifford Algebra Cl( 8 ) and its tensor square Cl( 8 )xCl( 8 ) = Cl(16). Although Llull's work was preserved in writing in Mallorca, his ideas were rejected by the Intellectual Establishment of Paris and remained dormant for centuries.

Around 1890 Killing and Cartan rediscovered Llull's Lie Algebras. Only in the 1900s did the work of Cartan as further developed mathematicaly by Jovet, Sauter, and Riesz and as applied by Dirac to physics show how a D8 half-Spinor could be added to D8 itself to get E8 Physics and to see how E8 Physics lives inside IFA Cl( 8 ).

It has taken until now (the 2000s) for the formal Written Human Culture to catch up with the informal Oral Ancient African Culture in understanding a realistic Unified Theory of the Laws of Nature.

http://vixra.org/abs/1305.0060

ndu_chucks: @Pukkah, I hereby extend the same request I made to Katsumoto to you sir. I'm all ears.

Andre Uweh: Mr Aregbesola has a very good idea here. But it should not be introduced in secondary schools but in the universities in Osun state just like philosophy is introduced in secondary schools but in universities.
The state should lay more emphasis on those areas Tomakint earlier highlighted in this thread.

Sincere 9gerian: No wonder. I suspected something was wrong with these guys. Now we know most of the worshippers at Tinubu's shrine on this forum are idol worshippers.

There's no justification for introducing minors to idolatry. If Aregbe and his indolatrous partners are keen on propagating Ifa and the worship of other idols, they should do that at higher institutions. They should leave innocent children out of their evil agenda.

Katsumoto:

When you are done with at least one, you can return to this thread and then we can proceed to have a discussion.

But let me throw a poser at you - why do you think that the Yoruba have been able to assimilate foreign religions without being assimilated by those religions? What do you understand by the Duality of purpose (Ejiwapo in Yoruba) and what are its similarities to Zoroastrianism, ancient Greek and Roman beliefs, Hinduism, etc?

Leward: The fact is, the introduction of ifa studies in our schools will have its negative effects, now the question is when the positive an negative effects are compared, is it worth it? Definitely after learning some ifa secretes in school some kid go in the line of reviving the dark arts(whether we like it or not there will be bad eggs), is that what we need in this nation now? The revitalisation of the primitive era of superstitions and shutting down of economic activities for the celebration of some funky festivals with some abnormal activities when the rest of the world is going in another direction is not what we need. There are security, economic and power issues to be faced..
But like someone rightly said, as long as it's not compulsory, there'ld be no problems.

Messi j: U mean it? And many of ur fore fathers who worshiped ifa of which present worshippers are no match with, were bought or taking into slavery with a piece of mirror, a boltte of gin and other minor things and D ifa that knw BODMAS couldnt teach them wht those things D white gave them were. Worst of it were, D main juju or Idol carved or cast and kept in inner shirine were joyfully taking by the white as artifacts, as they were curious abt civilization. Only to be realesed aftr u ppl were groomed to civilization to knw wht is right and this civilization and human right is highly forstered by D werstern religion. And if nt 4 it, u this poster should have jumping on tress with D monkey, u will still be half naked and still killing twins.

Leward:
dude, you must have read your books upside down cos you got everything mixed up.
1. There were no local christians during the slave era.
2. what is the meaning of this? It doesn't really make much sense.
3. After the slave era, during the wars of colonisation btw local fighters and soldiers, interesting cultural relics were taken. Get a good history text...or google is your friend.
4. Let's assume he exaggerated with that one.
5. All he is trying to say is that all these traditional beliefs begets superstitions. We have our own. Be reasonable.

Word of advice- before you reply a comment, think and analyse it well with an open mind.

Gbawe:

Absolutely correct. As usual some will never confront their own intolerance and prejudice before they come here to make a fool of themselves. Look at the fascinating real life story below about Onaje and Folashade Woodbine and their devotion to learning Ifa spirituality and divination they have now developed as an app to assist those interested in Ifa divination.

Inspect even the related tale of Bishop Lijadu who, exemplifying the famed religious tolerance of the Yoruba, doubles as an authority on the real essence of Ifa. I really despise ignorance mixed with intolerance and prejudice. Simply abhorrent and the cause of some of the biggest problems the World faces and will continue to face. In a world run by ideas, some continue to display bigotry, superficiality, ignorance, prejudice and intolerance regarding what they have no authority to judge. Regrettable to say the least.



http://ifadivination./about/

9jacrip:

[b]I did not want to contribute to this thread in the first place but your !d!0tik and moronic post reverberates ignorance that needs to be 'checked' before other readers take the BS for a fact.

Firstly, I must say whoever taught you all the crap you wrote about Esu either played on your intelligence or shares the same less-discerning mind as yours.

To the matter: Esu is not supposed to and is not a wicked lesser god, Esu is a purveyor of messages between gods and between human and gods. Eus is rather known for being a trickster who plays jokes on non-suspecting folks. He's appeased separately in order for him to help convey a message to the gods or to avoid his jokes/tricks when serious matter needs urgent solutions.

His sacrifices maybe primitive - palm oil, chicken/ducks, Kolanuts etc how are all of these expensive?

The worship of Esu and any of the gods for that matter isn't characterized with fears, please shut up and keep your leprous fingers in your boxers instead of typing garbage.

We understand you and many more have become blinded by imported religion and even believe in it much more than those who brought it upon you, but you need not denigrate African traditional beliefs and spew rubbish as well as lies in your spear campaigns - thank you[/b]

LAST BULLET: Since you prefer BH, I hope Esu makes you fall victim to BH attacks one of these days.

Pukkah:
The shameless team of ignoramuses think that the study of Ifa is a beer parlour talk. In trying to get at Aregbesola for whatever reason(s), they exposed their screaming ignorance and primitive intolerance.

Ifa study is for intellectuals and it takes years to train a Babalawo. The meaning of Babalawo here is not the corrupted one that is being bandied around by African Magic films or Pastors or Imams. A Babalawo is a bundle of knowledge, tolerance and spirituality.

There are several thousands of verses in the Ifa corpus many of which the average Babalawo must know by heart. Little wonder the United Nations has added Ifa to the World Heritage List. Is this a beer parlour talk?

Children must be given an opportunity to know that Esu is not the same as Devil or Satan as the adherents of Christianity or Islam would want us to believe. If Esu is the same as Satan why then is Orunmila not interpreted as Jesus? How many adults even know this? How many people know that the Esu in Yoruba religion did not quarrel with or rebel against Olodumare (God)?

The influx of foreign religions has emptied the brains of many people who deride, condemn and jeer at indigenous religion. They poke fun at others in their worship centres (e.g. Babalawo's power, powerless power o), yet complain and scream 'thou shall not judge' when commentators criticize Oyedepo or Adeboye. The Muslims are also not left out in the onslaught against practitioners of indigenous religion. Haba! What has happened to 'live and let live'?

With this move, it just shows that Aregbesola is bold, deep and discerning.

Kudos Rauf!

Pukkah:




Over 1,000,000 European Christians were taken as slaves by North Africans from the sixteenth to eighteenth centuries.

What do you have to say to that?

Leward:
Africans took Europeans as slaves? Really? Which of them? the egyptians, ethiopians, tunisians or algerians?
My bro go easy on weeds. I'll change my stance if and only if you can give my a sensible proof of that.
I wont consult google for this falacy

Leward:
Africans took Europeans as slaves? Really? Which of them? the egyptians, ethiopians, tunisians or algerians?
My bro go easy on weeds. I'll change my stance if and only if you can give my a sensible proof of that.
I wont consult google for this falacy

Leward:
You are a stupid and ignoramus fool, before you comment on a subject your frail mind can't comprehend next time, y dont you aske learned intellectuals (profs) about the subject matter. Esu is nt a messenger god, he is a guard god that protects settlements if pleased that's why his shrine is always at the entrance of a community and yes, he can be wicked when vexed and he is feared, but to prove that, y dont you go to a local community where he is worshipped, ask for his shrine, and pour water on his statue, and mention your nane so as not to cause trouble for the poor community thats when you will understand what 'Esu gbomi mu' is. I'll love to hear your pleasant testimony at the end, sorry if i sound harsh, but i don't take insults lightly, as you must have noticed i've not insulted anyone directly on this thread, you untrained lobstar