brocab:
You have used the scripture Mark 12:42-43 "Which one of the two Jesus had said, will be remembered, of coarse the Lady who paid all what she had, the two mites.
This is given, not tithing, tithing was the law giving to farmers who obeyed God's law, filling the lands, shocks crops, and merchandise with rain and nourishments given them a yearly intake of a 23% of their best first fruit products yearly to the Levites as God had commanded them to do, some of the tithes were 3 years apart.
Then of course the Levites would give 10% of their tithe of food products to Aaron the high priest.
Tithing had nothing to do with money back then, nor does it have anything to with money today.
So you using this scripture as a good example you are walking up the wrong path. Tithing these days is not scriptural, and if you were tithing the way God had made tithing to be, which you aren't, then you are well and truly out of date.
2 John 1:10 "If anyone comes to your house and brings another doctrine, don't let him in.

10, When did God start collecting tithes from widows, orphans strangers and the poor? not to talk of prostitutes, thieves, ritualists, spiritists, gay/lesbians, satanists, fraudsters etc?

Joshthefirst:
Sorry, I was replying with regards to a certain statement he made:



I was trying to show him God collected much more than 10% from widows, so his point is null.

People mostly dealt in farming back then. Will you now tell me that you aren't supposed to tithe because you're not a farmer? Weak point.

Joshthefirst:
Notice you didn't address my points with scripture of your own, but simply ranted nonsense and called me a liar.

I'll only say three things and give you some advice after that until you can come up with formal scriptural defense against me:

With regards to number 10;

1. God collected more than tithe from the poor widow in the new testament. He collected everything she had.

[b]Mark 12
42 And there came a certain poor widow, and she threw in two mites, which make a farthing. note

43 And he called unto him his disciples, and saith unto them, Verily I say unto you, That this poor widow hath cast more in, than all they which have cast into the treasury:

44 For all they did cast in of their abundance; but she of her want did cast in all that she had, even all her living.
^^^^^
Scripture didn't say Jesus told the woman to return it, scripture gives the notion that he praised the woman's sacrificial giving.



2. Elijah demanded for more than 10% from the widow of zarephath. He took the last meal of herself and her son.


[b]
1 Kings 17
12 And she said, As the LORD thy God liveth, I have not a cake, but an handful of meal in a barrel, and a little oil in a cruse: and, behold, I am gathering two sticks, that I may go in and dress it for me and my son, that we may eat it, and die.

13 And Elijah said unto her, Fear not; go and do as thou hast said: but make me thereof a little cake first, and bring it unto me, and after make for thee and for thy son.

Note that these are cases of poor widows. But they didn't find the call to give their all an insult to or from God. They were willing and they were blessed.


My advice to you is to give your tithes and stop withholding blessings from yourself and your family. Your words show me you're a man who doesn't know how to apply the principle of giving in his life.

Edited

Joshthefirst:
Sorry, I was replying with regards to a certain statement he made:



I was trying to show him God collected much more than 10% from widows, so his point is null.

People mostly dealt in farming back then. Will you now tell me that you aren't supposed to tithe because you're not a farmer? Weak point.

Ken4Christ:
Those who condemn tithing on the ground that it is Old Testament, please tell me which command appears more demanding. The tithe which is just 10% of your increase or the instruction our Lord Jesus gave in Luke 12:33 which is almost all the assets you possess. You must practice one of it. If you don't pay tithe, then obey what Jesus says we should do. The early church did it. And I have been in meetings where people gave away the only car for the work of the ministry. If you believe in just giving, you shouldn't give less than 10% unless you are not born again. If you are, the nature of God is in you now. Since God is generous, you too should be generous. Only carnally minded people kick against giving. The carnal mind cannot please God. If God's children do not give a definite percentage of their income to God, how will the church pay it's bill. Tithing is God's own way of paying full time workers in the house of God and take care of other logistics. Do you think God will be more pleased if we give less. If you are managing an organization, will you prefer to have a system that brings less money? The church needs more fund. A lot of believers that have caught this revelation give much more. Please don't discourage anyone from tithing. That is the very least expected of us. From the teachings of our Lord Jesus, he even wants us to give all.

Joshthefirst:
No. That tithing was not an example of a freewill offering. It was specifically called a tithe by Paul in Hebrews.

Here it is.

Hebrews 7:6
But he whose descent is not counted from them received titheS of Abraham, and blessed him that had the promises.

Note it was tithes, not even a tithe. Abraham may have given a tithe on more than one occasion.

And as for tithing never mentioned to believers in the new testament, read further down in the same passage to verse 8:

Hebrews 7:8 And here men that die receive tithes; but there he receiveth them, of whom it is witnessed that he liveth.


If he lives, who received tithes from Abraham, what stops him from receiving tithes from us? The Seed of Abraham, Children of the most high God. What stops us from giving our tithes and receiving his blessings also?

See?

It happened before the old covenant, so it wasn't done away with the old covenant. It is an eternal principle in God's kingdom.

Try it and see God's blessings even more in your life brother.

brocab:
Firstly it is not a weak point-only to you, because you aren't reading your bible clearly, the blind will always lead the blind.
You have read the scriptures to know not even Jesus collected tithes, nor His disciples, but you have chosen to ignore the scriptures, your page has showing us clearly, you would rather follow after Mammon your God, you are part of the gang of thieves, who can only see the doctrines on law these prosperity preachers produce.
Galatians 3:10 "You are cursed with a cursed if you don't obey all the laws.

christemmbassey:
! Many very dishonest tithe promoters have changed their IDs, so I A very sure, you are either one of them or new on Nl, bc my activities and comments as regards' tithe fraud' are well articulated in this section of Nl. So , I do not have time to go in circles and quote verses with you.

Notwithstanding, I wish to correct your twist of Mark 12:41-42 ( I know its in a tithe collectors blood to twist tbe scripture without which they have no lie to promote the fraud)

1. Jesus was not directly or indirectly involved in the collection and application of the monies collected by the Temple treasury, so his comment does not in any way show that God collect tithes from widows, orphans etc.
Infarct, one of the reasons God commanded Israel to give tithes was so that the widows, the orphans, the poor including the Levites be taken care of.

Deuteronomy 26:12 New International Version (NIV)
12 When you have finished setting aside a tenth of all your produce in the third year, the year of the tithe, you shall give it to the[b] Levite[/b], the foreigner, the fatherless and the widow, so that they may eat in your towns and be satisfied.

So bro, ur twist has failed, God has never collected tithes from widows, rather, widows collected tithes from God;

On the issue of the widow of zarephath, there is no twist that can turn that story to a widow giving tithe. Go and read and understand and stop looking for loop hole to scam.

truthislight:


The above is a wrong application of Heb 7

Joshthefirst:
The principle of tithing and seed showing was demonstrated by Abraham and Jacob before the law of !Moses was given. It is not part of the mosaic law. It is a principle of heaven.

And Jesus preached prosperity. If you want to stick with being impoverished, go ahead, but he was made poor, so that I, through his poverty might become rich.

brocab:
And could you show me in scripture where Jesus spoke and preached in the prosperity money doctrine? And make sure you point it out clearly why was Jesus made poor, when you claim He preached such doctrines?
Does this verse sound like Jesus was rich in finances-birds have nest, foxes have holes, but Jesus said He had no place to rest His head.
What does this scripture tell you? Matthew 17:24 "The temple guards came to Peter and said, does not your master pay temple taxes, Peter said yes, then Jesus asked Simon. so whom do the kings of the earth collect customs, from their sons or by strangers, Peter said by strangers, Jesus then said then the sons are free.

brocab:
And make sure you point it out clearly why was Jesus made poor, when you claim He preached such doctrines?

Joshthefirst:
The scripture that states that Jesus was made poor tells us why he was made poor. It's so that I, through his poverty, might be made rich! I'm rich bro! Glory to God. The El-shaddai.

He was made poor for my sake and your sake. His poverty made us rich!


2 Corinthians 8:

9 For ye know the grace of our Lord Jesus Christ, that, though he was rich, yet for your sakes he became poor, that ye through his poverty might be rich.


∆I don't know why you're so worried that God wants you to prosper, financially too. Read that 2 Corinthians 8 and you'll see Paul was talking about material poverty and riches, not spiritual one.

He was talking about monéé guy. Cash, quid, bucks, etc.

brocab:
His poverty made us rich in word' not in money.
You preaching such rubbish shows you are a just another prosperity preacher, trying to build your kingdom with {Money} finances, paying your way into heaven, Jesus said you brought nothing into this world and surely you will take nothing out.
2 Corinthians 8 "Jesus became rich in word and He became poor in poverty {Money} Its the word of God that gives us riches, When we pray God already knows what we need, we just have to ask Him, and He will give to us the things that's needed for the body.
You claim you are rich, in what way are you rich?
I am rich, and the riches I have, I give to you, Peter said silver and gold I do not have, but what I have I give to you, get up a walk.
You cant worship Mammon and God at the same time, you will either hate the one and love the other.

Joshthefirst:
Stop adding your own words to scripture. paul was talking about money and financies in 2 corinthians 8. simple

brocab:
2 Corinthians 8 read your bible-the story was preferring to was about giving , you have your wires crossed, you tithers are always confused about the scriptures, you believe giving and tithing have the same meanings.
Well they don't {Giving can mean more or less-tithing is a percentage. 23% 10% etc}
So yes I have all the rights to add words to the scriptures, because its the word of God, the truth and nothing but the truth.
The little old woman gave all what she had to the treasury {two mites} while the tithers gave their percentage, and who of the two was remembered more than the other. The Giver or the tither?
So as we read more into the scriptures Jesus is the main attraction-not collecting any tithes Himself, nor His disciples, nor anybody else who followed after Him, but 2 Corinthians 8 talks more on the fact they were givers, not tithers, poverty was everywhere in those days, and because of their commitment to Jesus they understood the differences between the law on tithing and a free will giving, Voluntarily supporting their own poverty, they gave.
Its the word of God that fills our hearts with its riches, not tithing money, I am rich, silver and gold I do not have, but what I have I give to you. Stand up and walk with Christ.

Joshthefirst:
You're becoming quite offensive and you're misinterpreting me so terribly i beginning to find it hard to take you seriously.

My point, and the point of all the examples i gave is to show that if God accepted such sacrificial monies from 'poor' widows then he won't have any trouble accepting your 10%.

you have no problem with the widow giving all she had but you have a problem with me as a seed of abraham giving 10%? you must have a serious problem.

the word of God fills my heart, and my giving and tithing based on that very word makes my need met and blesses my pockets with the resources needed to finance the activities of Gods kingdom.

I am rich, silver and gold, I do have, and the power of God that brings healing and health, i have also.

From everything you have said here it is obvious you do not even give much. if you cannot support the gospel with 10% how can you make such sacrifice as that widow who was indeed rich toward God?

The kingdom of God is moving forward. people like me take it and will take it to the ends of the earth, because we are willing to give to support it. we are willing to pay for bibles to be translated and pay for the pastor to be kempt. we are willing to pay for missionaries travels and their upkeep in their work.

You would be foolish and not of much use to the kingdom if you think that you can give very well when you cannot even give 10% of what God has blessed you with into his work

brocab:
Well then your blessings you retrieve are only from your tithings.
You say you are rich, in what way are you rich?

Firstly Jesus said one must be born again before he can enter into the kingdom of God-in your case You haven't yet accepted Christ fully into your heart, you are comparing Jesus with Money, Jesus said you can't worship Mammon and God at the same time. you will either hate the one or love the other-so which is it? Money or God?

Have you noticed the story about the poor widow, who Christ recolonized, who paid more into the treasurey, her story stood out above the tithers, Christ had seen her heart she didn't give a percentage she gave all, why because she believed. More than what He seen the tithers do..
She understood the differences between tithing and given, she gave herself all what she had to God, while you and the rest of the tithers gave only a small percentage of 10%.

And if you are to tithe the way God had commanded some Jewish farmers to tithe back then, then you would tithe 23% yearly, but because you have chosen to follow after your flesh, you are disobeying God and you have given your tithes "NOT" the way God had made tithes to be in Stock crops and Merchandise.

Did Abraham pay tithes from his own weekly wages, or did he give back merchandise that didn't belong to him?

It is not I' you are finding it hard to take seriously, its the word of God you are finding it hard to bare.
I am blessed, I am rich, and the Lord had supplied me with my needs, as I live, I live for His word.
Buying jets, mega homes, mega Churches, fancy cars M/Bikes, is a thing from the past, nothing last. Heaven and earth will oneday pass away, but Jesus said His word will always stay.
And if Christ made some to be pastors, some evangelist, some teaches, and some prophets, then why does the Church make it so hard for people who have a passion for Christ, why aren't they paid?

If you tithed to me, and I tithed to someone else, and somebody tithe to you, what then?

Is your pastor being paid because you are to lazy to get out their yourself and witness, do I have to tithe to retrieve a blessing more then those who don't tithe?

Can I not do the work for the lord, without having to be ordered by the church to do so.

Is your Church really reaching out to the world, or are they enjoying their new comforts buying and selling new stocks they had financed through the Church.

Joshthefirst:
Unfortunately for you this is the last time I will respond to your post in detail as you are resorting to foolishness in order to cling to your doctrine of smallness and povertyI am rich with every spiritual blessing in the heavenly places in Christ Jesus, and I am also prosper in finances, as the seed of Abraham.
I have accepted Christ into my heart and in no way have I compared him with money. I do not worship mammon. I am simply prosperous as my father is prosperous. If it pains you so much that I am blessed in this way I advice you to receive Jesus and his blessings into your life as well.


You always bring up the widow while she actually proves my point. I am a giver, and tithing is giving. And mark my words, you are foolish, if you think that you will be able to give as sacrificially as that widow when you have a problem with people giving a small 10%. If you have a problem with 10%, then you obviously have a problem with 100%. Change your mindset of withholding and be generous in giving to the kingdom of God and you will be blessed.



Please are you for tithing or against tithing? If you are against tithing then what authority do you have in telling me how to tithe towards God?

btw, in those days they dealt mostly in stock crops and merchandise. In these days, we deal mostly with circulating finances and paper money.


It seems you are ignorant, not knowing the scriptures or the power of god. Abraham didn't give back merchandise that didn't belong to him. When people go to war and recover merchandise, it is called spoil and is claimed by the victors of war. Abraham went to war and recovered spoil, he paid tithes on the spoil, then he delivered it to the kings, so that they will not say their spoil made Abraham rich.
I find it hard to take you seriously because you do not know the word, and you seem to have little comprehension skills too. And you're beginning to insult my person.

I and my congregation cater for the pastor. Because you should not muzzle the ox that treads the grain and a labourer is worthy of his wages.



My pastor is paid because he is a labourer who shepherds my local church and a labourer is worthy of his wages. You seem not to support the care giving of men of God. If so, you are cruel and selfish. Even Jesus had sponsors who gave him food and shelter and women who ministered to him.

And when you tithe, you receive the blessing of the tither. simple.



what are you saying? can you do the work of the Lord alone? you who cannot even pay tithe how am I supposed to assume you sponsor Gods work?

My church is reaching out to the world, and from what you've said so far I do not even think you have a local congregation. we are reaching out to the world, and we are rich and filled with comfort, because our Father is the Father of all mercies and the God of all comfort.



Stay there complaining and refusing to tithe. Poor men don't take the gospel anywhere. they only complain about even the most basic of giving, and they remain in poverty.

The Kingdom of God suffers violence, and the violent take it by force. Violent people like me take the Kingdom of God by force to the ends of the earth. We give everything, and we are rich and powerful and influential. We will continue to do what we do. stay there complaining about giving tithes.

And I do not think I will reply you again.

Themind:
. Now exposed. You have little knowledge or not at all about the Bible. You loose my respect, I will give you 0.005% for this expose, too poor. Surely this is not of the spirit it is of the flesh and it will profit nothing to the spirit.

iwinmiah:
the post is correct, pastors have manipulated Malachi and have cursed christians by making them believe that they must give to an organisation church before God can provide for them, Gods approved way of giving is giving to the poor. see proverbs 19:17 and matthew 25:35-47

Joshthefirst:
Sorry, I was replying with regards to a certain statement he made:



I was trying to show him God collected much more than 10% from widows, so his point is null.

People mostly dealt in farming back then. Will you now tell me that you aren't supposed to tithe because you're not a farmer? Weak point.