@ Afeni
I sense a volte-face in your earlier tactics. Now you want the next president to execute previou corrupt leaders, betraying your secret wish for one Nigeria. I understand where you are coming from now. I have been long enough with the Military to know that revolutionaries are not always prepared for various challenges that confront them as they implement their radical ideas, especially when those ideas are acce;erated using violent means. I think you should read the following. Why we struck- By Major Nzeogwu, Just before Dan-Kole Omotosho, Biafra- Frederick Forsyth, Obasanjo in the eys of time-by Adinoyi onikaba and Wole Soyinka's New Book(I have forgotten the name). When you are done with all these, then I will recommend some pan-African, and even Asian reads for you, After this class, I am sure you will have a proper understanding, and conseqquently shift gear in line with your newly acquired knowledge.

I went to school with the offsprings of Abacha, Gideon Orkar, Diya, Akintonde, and so on, and know that a lot of them thought their dads to be revolutionaries, the only snag is the start having revolutionary ideas, but get corrupted along the way as a result of too much force and lack of persuasive and charismatic skills needed to move thepeople along. Before long they become estranged from the people they are supposed to liberate, and then they became villians.

So Ayeni, take this as a food for thought. Read those books, I swear you won't regret it.

Ajia23,

What you call a lack of persuasive powers and charisma, I am calling a lack of God. People do move along and accept austere measures if there is no vision, if there is no heaven at the end of the rainbow.

Ghana recieved their heaven at the end of the rainbow. Rawlings dream paid off.

Afeni wants to offer Nigerians no heaven and just get rid of the devil. That is not going to work very well.

The Chinese economy is taking off and the communist party barely recognizes God. Clearly, the masters did a good job of forcing their God on you. Its ironic how you are an even stronger advocate for their silly fairy tales than the average you know who.

Afeni,

Not quite. While there was a time when China considered Christianity to be part and parcel of the west (it is)and wanted it irridicated. Not any longer.

China prints more bibles than any other nation on earth. China sends more christian missionaries to the world than any nation.

Their government is right now calling in Christian leaders to explain Christianity to them.
http://www.csmonitor.com/2004/0308/p01s03-woap.html


There are even books out that it is because of the strong Christian element that China is changing it's tune: http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0895261286/103-6168818-9023061?v=glance&n=283155

Afeni,

By the way, The European Masters also brought their form of money to Africans.

Why is it that you reject the God they brought (Christianity) but not the Devil they brought (their money)?


Something is wrong with your idea that one who embraces Christianity is embracing the master but someone who embraces European monetary systems is not under the influence of the master.

That is just grand communist staging. I really wish you Christians would stop acting like you are chosen. The truth is that you know no more about the existence of the world than I do.

If not for the terrible State of Nigeria, eradication of Christianity in Nigeria would be one of my top goals.

Afeni,

By the way, The European Masters also brought their form of money to Africans.

Why is it that you reject the God they brought (Christianity) but not the Devil they brought (their money)?


Something is wrong with your idea that one who embraces Christianity is embracing the master but someone who embraces European monetary systems is not under the influence of the master.

Drusilla, Yorubas have been using money for hundreds of years before Europeans arrived. While there form of money was not in paper form, they used cowries (That is the spelling if memory serves me correctly) during commerce.

Also, do not compare things that show practical advantages like monetary policy, power generation e.t.c. to religion that has no clear benefit. The only positive in religion is building of moral standards, but even that can be done with smart use of propaganda and teachings of nationalism.

Afeni,

I said European form of money.

If you are advocating that Nigerians go back to using Cowries, well then your cries against European Christianity will seem more valid in my eyes.

Your main complaint about Nigeria now is that the leaders lack moral standards and thus are corrupt, then on the other hand you state that religion is only good for moral standards.

What are you blind in one eye and can not see out of the other?

@ afeni,

It would be nice to get rid of the corrupt ones and maybe we should start the execution right away!!!

PS: can you kindly post your dad's address? I promise I would be kind to him

Drusilla, Nigeria can be fixed without support for Christianity. As far as I am concerned, these damn religions (Christianity and Islam) have been nothing but trouble in the country.

Nigeria has enough problems as it is. We don't need any self-righteous degenerates to further complicate things.

My point is, we should emulate things that actually work. There is no correlation between Christianity and a strong economy. Even in America, the most religious States are also the poorest in the union.

So while you self-proposed "men of God" whine about banning abortion/masterbation machines, I will be busy doing things that actually matter. My time cannot be wasted appeasing Gods, in regardless of how real they are. So, if that means hell (if such a place exists) so be it.

Clearly, what Nigeria needs are people that are willing to die doing what is right for the betterment of the country. All you "IWANTTOGOTOHEAVEN" people should stick to the church. Hopefully, someone with sense gets elected and removes the corrupt men of God from the halls of power. We only need men of the State.

Afeni,

Please speak to what I have talked about. I would never advocate that Christianity be involved in politics.

Politics corrupts Christians.

What I am talking about has to do with vision.

For instance George Bush does not have Christian policy's and has not changed or helped one piece of the Christian agenda.

What he has done though is energized his base of voters with a vision, a christian vision of a better world, where God reigns and goodness can prevail.

This is what I am talking about. A vision.

Communists also had a vision, a vision of heaven on earth. Utopia. Tolstoy considered the communist movement to be intimately tied to Chrstianity.

In America, as you know, we rule with impartiality but with Christian vision also.

It seems you have the right idea, get rid of corruption, what you lack is a vision of why one should bother.

Afeni,

Put yourself in the politicians shoes:

The people won't act right. They say they want to be independent but demand European goods and complain when they do not get them.

The people won't act right. They say they want us to get along but then turn around and fight over the stupidest things.

The people steal from each other and the world, their criminals. The preachers are the worst thieves.

These people do not want to suffer for the future.

Why should not I do like the people and only care about my family and our needs? Why not take the money the people would waste and make sure me and my family don't get stuck in absolute poverty?

Why not enrich at least my village? So I can go home to comfort and friends. Screw everybody else's village?

Where is the vision that this politician must have to fight the impulse for self preservation in the face of so many others who are not willing to suffer, in these circumstances?

Drusilla, the vision of the State would be honor. Creation of a 10-14 point code would be excellent to send this message. And since honor is not related to religion, everyone can accept.

@Afeni: We have seen your vision, please tell us how we can do it with "Federal Character".

We can't. That is the problem with Nigeria. This is the kind of policies that you need a dictatorship to carry out. Naturally, all Nigerians would become a part of the same ethnic group over a period of 200 years or so, but that is a long time to wait for total unity. This is meant to be a quick way to get there.

Nigeria needs a sovereign national conference to get a lot of these things settled out. The current constition that the country is using is flawed. It is also a lie. They call it a federal system of Government, but yet they feel it is justified to take on-shore oil money to be distributed amongst all the states. That is complete garbage. Only off-shore oil money should even be considered to be split for all the States.

I think calling for SNC and Dictatorship is definitely a backward/negative ideology. It think the problem is that most ideologists have not taken time to explore the uniqueness of Nigeria, to come use with a unique ideology that will build a new generation of Nigerians in the next 20 to 30 years.

I wont go into arguement about oil money or on-shore resources, you have to be familiar with the law or statues governing Natural resources in Nigeria. I would rather argue why cant the states Generate income that will not be shared nationally? - these will be in form of Investments in other areas such as agriculture, services, etc.

You post about Nigerians becoming one, yet you want certain sections of the country to own income from natural resources of that state, that ammount to sectarianism. Nigerai made a lot of Money from Cocoa, Palm oil, Groundnut before oil, these oils states benefitted from those other states/region then.

I dont know what we need to do which will be practical given that I dont aspire to rule in Nigeria. It all goes down to the sincerity of the leader to look at Nigerias peculiarity and drive meaninful integration agenda. Such has to be carried over successive goverments and not the disconnecting scenarios we have had with successive government in the last few decades (Housing for all By year 2000, Health for all by Year 2000, Water for all by Year 2000, Vision 2010 - where are all these programs today?).

SNC will not drive this, neither discatorship. Rather, it should be a product of GOOD GOVERNANCE.

""Drusilla, the vision of the State would be honor. Creation of a 10-14 point code would be excellent to send this message. And since honor is not related to religion, everyone can accept.""

Afeni,

What do Nigerian politicians campaign now with the idea that they will be dishonorable?

Of course not.

Your replacing the same plastic vision that does not work now, with an equally unworkable vision.

When a state is built on a vision of God is watching and violating that vision means that you are the devil, then people will be scared to be involved easily in corruption.

No one would ever know who is the true believer and who is just using the state propaganda.

Look at America's history. Publicly Thomas Jefferson said some wonderful things about leading the country in impartial Christian ways.

Privately, Jefferson called Christianity a Paul distorted religion.

His Christian public talk, led Americans to be willing to suffer to work for God to make America a free Nation. i.e. God has given to each person their inalienable rights.

People suffer and accept austere measures when they are led to the higher and better instincts in themselves.

Martin Luther King used the same strategy. He put forth the idea that white people were better people than this. That they were Christians and they would do the right thing.

There is no historical record that whites were actually this better people. But what he did is give them a vision of themselves as better and as God's people.

God's people can suffer for the right thing.

An honor system depends on one getting caught.

God's system does not depend on that. God can see you, you act right even when no human can see you.

Drusilla, while you make a good argument, I am not going to advocate God to get the support of the people. I am not a man of God, I have never been a man of God, and I will put a bullet in my head before I become a man of God.

My honor stance has worked perfectly for me and it can work well for others.

So far, I have had 3 jobs in my life time, and I always excel at work. My bosses know that I am reliable, hard working, and I will always do what is right. Now, if I can "make things work" with out relying on what I perceive to be silly fairy tales, others can too. The other day, I got a phone call from two of my bosses (I haven't worked with either of them for over a year) and they offered me a summer job paying 50 percent more than ordinary workers get payed.

You must keep in mind that this so called God is the same being that the current Nigerian Politicians talk about from morning to night. They have tried the implementation of faith-based political leadership, and they have failed. It is time for men of honor to have a chance at governing. No God, no pandering to the Church or Mosque, just good ol fashion hard work and dedication to the State.

Religion has corrupted our society. Everyone and the mother is constantly praying for a miracle. When the military takes over the government, they pray for a miracle. When the economy is in perpetual stagnation, they pray for a miracle. When they lose their jobs, they pray for a miracle.

Not once do these morons think that now might be the time to stage a revolution, in regardless of loss of life. Remember, it is a lot easier to make new people, than it is to get land to form a new country. Don't put your life over that of the State. You can always be replaced, the State can't.

Its like every time I try to motivate and enlighten Nigerians they open their pathetic mouths and say "Only God can help me" or something equally stupid like that. That kind of talk has to stop.

If God wants everyone to be Christian or Muslim, well, he can do it his damn self. Promoting faith through the country is shallow and dishonorable.

Bibi,
You are wrong,Nigeria's first oil well was discovered in Oloibiri in the present day Bayelsa State in 1956,by the 1960s there was commercial drilling for oil in the Niger delta.
The regional system we operated by that time gave total control of resources to the regional government,Cocoa proceeds was controlled by the then Western government,as did the North control Groundnut and did the East control Coal.
After the Civil War,oil became the main stay of our economy.The Niger delta never benefited from resources from other regions/states.

Afeni,

Have you ever heard that old joke?

There was a flood. A man had to get on his roof to avoid drowning.

A man still able to drive his 18 wheeler truck came by and offered to take him to safety. The man said: No God is going to save me!

A man in a boat came by and offered to take him to safety. The man said: No God is going to save me.

Finally a helicopter came by and tried to bring him to safery. The man said: No God is going to save me!

The flood got worse and overwhelmed his house. The man drown.

As soon as he got to heaven. He asked God: Why didn't you save me?

God said: I sent a truck, a boat and a helicopter to you but you would not let me save you!


I had the same experience. I saw an very old black woman begging for change outside a store. The woman had to be in her 70's or 80's. I gave her money and a ride home. After she left, I began crying to God, tears streaming down my face, angry. Asking God why He would allow this to happen that this old blackwoman had to beg at her age. I was pissed. I asked God: What are you going to do about this?

God replied very simply: I did do something about it. I sent you.

My point to you is this: There is an answer to those Christians (or religious persons) who mistakenly believe (because of bad bible teachers) that God saving you means just putting up with the bad circumstances life sends your way until a miracle happens.

In fact it is unchristian to not be 'other' orientated. A christian should never be worried about how much they suffer, their life should be dedicated to others. As John F. Kennedy said: Ask not what others can do for you but what you can do for others. (pp)

This is the vision, I am talking about. A bigger vision that can satisfy a nation for many centuries not just while you are president.

It is off of this one statement alone, that everything in America works:

God has given every person the right to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.

What will be the statement you leave in Nigeria that people will quote 200 years from now? What Vision?

It seems that you assume that because Jerry Rawlings killed eight senior military personnel and committed many human rights violations that Ghanaians must have thought that it wasn't safe to be corrupt because they might be killed.

Do you know for sure that Rawlings was targetting only corrupt people? Do you think that because of Rawlings' actions that there is no corruption in Ghana? Do you think that if all corrupt people were killed it would lead to a growth in the economy? Do you think the primary way of stopping corruption is to kill people who you believe to be corrupt?

As you can see, there is a time when a system is just too corrupt. At which point, a purge must take place.

That's all well and good, but there are numerous examples in history where one set of corrupt leaders was purged to make way for another set. Or even worse, the situation degenerates into anarchy because several people make a grab for power at once.

If you don't kill of the past and present corrupt politicians/military, that would only be additional incentives for others to be corrupt. After all, if the past politicians/military men stole and got away with it, why can't they? This is similar to the type of madness that leads to mob mentality. All it takes is for one person to cross the line and get away with it, and scores of others would follow.

OK, so you feel that the only incentive for people to change their behaviour is by force. Can you please tell me which revolution involving the spilling of blood led to development in the Western world? Please don't tell me they weren't as corrupt as African nations at one time and never needed change.

Had the initial hoodlums that started the first killings in the Sharia riot been killed, the lives of thousand would have been saved. What Nigeria needs is extreme measures that puts an end to corruption. If that means execution of corrupt officials, so be it. If you really think about it, how many Nigerians have died due to malnutrition, preventable and curable disease that would not have occurred if the Government was serving the people as they are supposed to? I would estimate that the number would be in the millions. So, it is only reasonable to advocate the trial and subsequent execution of corrupt politicians/military men in order to save the lives of millions of people. No free ride for corrupt degenerates. Hopefully the next President understands that. And hopefully he is willing to put IBB trial and later execute the degenerate by firing squad.

Of course we need strong action to be taken against corruption in Nigeria because it distorts economic growth by redirecting resources to unproductive ventures. Of course such action will serve as a deterrent to some people.

However, you adopt a very narrow and simplistic approach (of using force) to solving a very complex problem. I mean, how will you determine who a corrupt official is? Will you go by hearsay? Will you appoint officials to do this? What if they themselves are corrupt (since they now have power)? I mean, look at what you say about putting IBB on trial and then executing him - it's like the trial is a formality, since you have already decided that you will execute him after the trial, anyway! There's no mention of trying to prevent situations that give rise to corruption in the first place - it's like saying that you will solve the problem of an empty bucket by filling it with water instead of plugging the hole in the bottom of the bucket.

Ha Ha that was a interesting soultion to equality, VERY INTERESTING

Is Jerry in prison now for his crimes? He was/is a very very bad man.

no, he is not in prison. I believe he is still in Ghana living free as a respected past head of State.

I agree that the way some Nigerians embrace religion is unhealthy, and should we abolish all religions, it would certainly reduce some of our problems. In the long run, though, it might create others. For one,  people need to believe in something and I am unconvinced that a completely GODLESS or nonbelieving society will be more peaceful than what we currently have. 

Concerning our culture, people need to be willing to compromise. Compromise will help us to achieve greater things than complete elimination of our culture.  I am not sure how Obansanjo wearing agbada should be a factor in the improvement of the country. Asian and Arab dignitaries have worn their traditional garbs to meet with foreign leaders. Substituting our cultural garment for "western" ones and calling it "advancement" is a little absurd.
Again, what we need in regards to our culture is to compromise. Among the revolutionary generation of the founding fathers of the US, you will find that not one person was completely happy with the solutions that were drafted for state sovereignty. Throughout US history, you will find that the willingness to compromise has always helped to improve the country than dogmatic loyalty to one idealism or belief. This is especially crucial when you have the type of diversity that exist in naija.
This is also a problem among older generations of Naija--lack of willingness to compromise, but I believe that that is changing among younger generations.

We also need to restructure the concentration of power.  Too many power is concentrated in the central gov't. I believe its important to make the government powerless without the people, so to speak.

Our biggest problem is battling our culture of corruption and instilling a sense of nationalism in citizens. Religion, ethnicity, et cetera, are small problems compared to this one. Thing is, many people who claim to be religious or claim loyalty to their thnic group will suddenely change tune when you wave a little green in their face. And too many people want a piece of the national cake. And that will continue to cripple a country like naija. Only truly unselfish people can help improve that country.

@ Damsel, may I know what you suggest we do at this point cuz the last time I checked all those EFCC are after are people with contrary views to Obj.
But, all the same I will like all of us with like minds to come together and work for hat we believe in.


@ Afeni.
My dear youngman, may I know what eactly u want? Previously u dont believe in this madness called Nigeria, and suddenly u are advocating for uniformity. I will like you to understand something, due to our insincerity Nigeria will continue to wobble and one day disintegrate. We all adult Nigerians know that fact yet we delude ourselves with this stupid madness(Nigeria) conceived in the bed of immorality.

I strongly suggest we tackle the root cause of all this agitation in the country and forget about all this useless talk about our Nigerianism in 20-30 years to come because we cant wash away our Africanism just because we want to be one Nigerian.
We all know that if the oil in the Niger-Delta was to be in the North, we wouldn't be talking about one Nigeria rather OYO (on your own) would have been the case.

And for all of you that has been writing sick things about the Ibo's(Biafrans), I wish u all a wonderful (sick) relationship with ur bros in the North. Please, b4 considering having that affair I suggest u meet with our bros in the Niger-Delta and ask them how wonderful it is to be frolicking with an AIDS patient ie enjoy 5 minutes pleasure and then grieve for a lifetime. Think about it!!!!

Walter,

Don't you want to be known as the Giant of Africa? As some brag? Don't you want to be the biggest Black Nation on earth? As some others claim on another site?

I guess that pretty much ends the good things to be said about Nigeria. It's the only things, I have seen some bragging about.

Who get's name rights? Who will be called the Naija people?

Afeni

Could you please throw more light on your point No.4. It does not come out as clearly as written.

4) Alter the events of the Nigerian civil war by replacing the Igbos with foreign fighters from Cameroun. This would also be a nice rallying point for nationalism.

Rhea, the point of that is to create an atmosphere where Igbos are no longer demonized for trying to leave Nigeria.

Afeni, Thanks for the clarification.

Walker_M, I still advocate the break up of Nigeria, this is just an idea I am floating so other Nigerians would see what it takes to truly make "One Nigeria". Judging by their responses, they are not too happy with the reality.