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The Church Has Rejected Christianity by KunleOshob(m): 5:24pm On Jul 07, 2008 |
A lot of christians may not be aware but what they are practising and what obtains in most churches today is not chrisitanity but churchianity. If we agree that true christianity as inspired by christ is based on his teachings and we believe the apostles were directed by christ to establish the church and we read an believe our bibles, then we would realise that what is being practised today is definitely not christianity but an adulterated version of it designed primarily to suit church leaders. Anybody who as truly studied the gospel of our lord Jesus Christ would easily attest to the fact that the greatest message of Christ was love as such that should be very foundation of any church that professes christianity but it is the opposite we have today. Matthew 22:35-39: 35 One of them, an expert in religious law, tried to trap him with this question: 36 “Teacher, which is the most important commandment in the law of Moses?” 37 Jesus replied, “‘You must love the Lord your God with all your heart, all your soul, and all your mind.’[a] 38 This is the first and greatest commandment. 39 A second is equally important: ‘Love your neighbor as yourself.’[b] Love was the central theme of the gospel of christ, christ also taught us to love our enemies and he demonstrated to us that to love God you must love your fellow men. In otherwards to be a christian you must be full of love for every body and you must demonstrate that love by helping people around us who are less priviledge. This is the most important thing we can do as christians. The unfortunate thing is that this central message of christianity as been lost by the church and "christians" people are now "christians" becos of what they think they can get from the church (salvation and prosperity) were as the true christian spirit should be about giving and showing love. Although churches today encourage you to give( which we should) they are only interested in you giving to the church and nobody else, this totally against the christian spirit of helping those in need. Peter is the apostle Jesus directed to establish the church quoted below is Jesus last instructions to peter regarding the church before his acension Passage John 21:14-17: 14 This was the third time Jesus had appeared to his disciples since he had been raised from the dead. 15 After breakfast Jesus asked Simon Peter, “Simon son of John, do you love me more than these?[a]” “Yes, Lord,” Peter replied, “you know I love you.” “Then feed my lambs,” Jesus told him. 16 Jesus repeated the question: “Simon son of John, do you love me?” “Yes, Lord,” Peter said, “you know I love you.” “Then take care of my sheep,” Jesus said. 17 A third time he asked him, “Simon son of John, do you love me?” Peter was hurt that Jesus asked the question a third time. He said, “Lord, you know everything. You know that I love you.” Jesus said, “Then feed my sheep. Here Jesus is clearly directing peter (the church) to take care of his followers and attend to their needs but today it is the other way round, it is the followers that are taking care of the church leaders. The above passage also demonstrate that loving God means showing love to our fellow human beings and not necessarily making offerings to the church as some pastors would have you believe. Let us now examine the practise in the early church inspired by Jesus and established by the apostles Acts 2:45: 45 They sold their property and possessions and shared the money with those in need Acts 4:32-35: 32 All the believers were united in heart and mind. And they felt that what they owned was not their own, so they shared everything they had. 33 The apostles testified powerfully to the resurrection of the Lord Jesus, and God’s great blessing was upon them all. 34 There were no needy people among them, because those who owned land or houses would sell them 35 and bring the money to the apostles to give to those in need. we can see from the above passage that collections in the early church was primarily meant to help the needy (both within and outside the church) but today the church doesn't care about those in need all collections go towards what they call "running of the church" even those in need are also expected to contribute to the church so that they can receive "blessings". If we examine the practise in the early church you would observe there was real love there as inspired by christ but today that practise of sharing and demonstrating love by the church is conspiciously absent and our church leaders couldn't care less. Even if you have a problem and you approached the church the best they would do about it is to pray about it, you would hardly see any church coming to a members aid financially. some of them would even try and exploit you further by suggesting that you are having difficulties becos you don't tithe faithfully. The truth is that true christianity that was established by the apostles and inspired by Jesus is no longer being practised ( at least in any church i know of) becos true love is the cental theme of the Jesus message to us. that message is not being practicalized in most churches today. However jesus himself predicted that we would be led astray Matthew 15:8-9: 8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me. 9But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men. A lot of teachings in today's churches are commandments of men being presented to us as the word of God, the great apsotle Paul also had something to say on this topic: Romans 16:17-18: 17 And now I make one more appeal, my dear brothers and sisters. Watch out for people who cause divisions and upset people’s faith by teaching things contrary to what you have been taught. Stay away from them. 18 Such people are not serving Christ our Lord; they are serving their own personal interests. By smooth talk and glowing words they deceive innocent people. Today christianity as been seriously hijacked and that is why we now have several different denominations each one preaching their own biase, but most of them if not all having departed from the original church practise of sharing and demonstrating love amongst beleivers. I hereby call on all true believers and followers of christ to return to true christianinty as established by the apsotles and inspired by our Lord Jesus christ. we should challenge our church leadership becos they have led us astray. We should study the churches the apostles established and emulate them. For us to fully understand what the true christian church should be like , i encourage every one to read the Acts of the apostles and all the espitles written in the new testament. You would discover that we have departed from true christianity and what is being practised is DOCTRINES of men being presented to us as the word of GOD. |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by Gamine(f): 6:12pm On Jul 07, 2008 |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by PastorAIO: 12:13am On Jul 08, 2008 |
The truth is that true christianity that was established by the apostles and inspired by Jesus is no longer being practised ( at least in any church i know of) Alas!! |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by infiniti(f): 2:14pm On Jul 08, 2008 |
kunleoshob has come again oh!. u should start your own church. |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by infiniti(f): 3:27pm On Jul 08, 2008 |
so, what is the way forward |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by Nobody: 4:07pm On Jul 08, 2008 |
who cares , so far my relationship with God is going on well |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by KunleOshob(m): 4:16pm On Jul 08, 2008 |
jayon: This is a very good example of the kind of christianity being encourage by the church. The selfish type. You are supposed to care and that is why Love is the greatest commandment in the bible. This is the basis of christianity. Your relationship with God cannot go well if you don't love your fellow man. |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by KunleOshob(m): 4:21pm On Jul 08, 2008 |
infiniti: well for a start i think all christians should start studying the bible well especially the new testament. As in read it thoroughly and study how the early church organized it self. |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by Udyro(f): 3:07pm On Jul 09, 2008 |
i agree with u Kunle, i also think that the way out is for one to get a thorough understanding of 'what the Bible says' and not 'what the Pastor says'. do that by going to church with your chotter and pen. after the so called sermon, have a brief chat with the Pastor, to explain the chotted question(s) STRAIGHT FROM THE BIBLE to him/her. |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by amaechijay: 3:46pm On Jul 11, 2008 |
KunleOshob I appreciate your contributions to this forum which are backed up with accurate quotes from the Source. You have a good knowledge and understanding of the Bible and I am benefiting from it. I agree with you 100% on this issue just as I did on Tithing. I wish you reside in Port Harcourt so I could consult you on more issues than these and regularly too I can only say Thumbs up, Carry Go, Keep it up Best regards |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by Nobody: 3:51pm On Jul 11, 2008 |
KunleOshob: Thank you for pointing this out. I have long noticed on this very section that a lot of "christians" attempt to explain cardinal doctrinal issues OUTSIDE the context of the bible. It is like trying to understand physics without a standard physics textbook. The best you can do is rehash what you've heard your pastor preach. I long for the day Berean christians will rise up again, willing to study their bibles rather than take Paul's words hook, line and sinker. |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by olabowale(m): 4:16pm On Jul 11, 2008 |
@Davidylan: I cant help but to notice what you said about apostle Paul, above. I mean the about taking Paul's words, hook, line and sinker! That harsh on the great apostle. I am shocked. @Pastor AIO:
We are beginning to realise that Jesus did not do any establishment. At best inspired. That is not even cler. But the truth is that Jesus did not inspired anyone to form a religion other rhan what Moses practiced. The same religion of Ibrahim, Hanifan. Now you see where the hunafa comes in, in the natural Fitra of monotheist nature that Allah the almighty had created His creatures. Pastor, Chief Odia, study those verses in the Qur'an again. Better, google the tafsir Ibn Kathir. Then get to those Surah and the verses. Happy Studying. |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by Gamine(f): 4:23pm On Jul 11, 2008 |
LOL olabowale!! thanks for ur examples |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by Nobody: 4:33pm On Jul 11, 2008 |
olabowale: You didnt understand the statement, not surprises there. |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by olabowale(m): 7:42pm On Jul 11, 2008 |
@Davidylan: I am lifting your above statement and record it in my file. I am writing a Book. InshaAllah, I will dedicate it to the sometimes loving and always hearty dialogue I have had here, on Nairaland. I have learnt alot. I do not take anyone, or anything for granted any longer. I do enjoy the people, all of them, including the ones who are puffed up with pride. I guess we are all humans, seeing ourselves as individuals to be rekorned with. Now explain yourself, since I can't read your new age English. lol. Queenisha, listen to david and help me bridge the generation, between he and I. |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by Nobody: 7:46pm On Jul 11, 2008 |
Alhaji i meant to say that the Berean christians were so mindful of personal study of the word of God that even after hearing from an anointed apostle such as Paul they still felt the need to go back home and allow the Holy Spirit teach them all they had learnt through the scriptures. [size=16pt]No where is it implied that Paul's words were wrong.[/size] |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by babs787(m): 8:25pm On Jul 11, 2008 |
@Davidylan I long for the day Berean christians will rise up again, willing to study their bibles rather than take Paul's words hook, line and sinker. Hope you noted your highlighted response? |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by Nobody: 8:40pm On Jul 11, 2008 |
babs787: Hypocrite, hope you also noted the explanation of that statement right above yours. I've made it bolder for selectively blind people like you to see. |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by olabowale(m): 8:57pm On Jul 11, 2008 |
@Davidylan: Aburo. I was not born yesterday. If I were, not yesterday night, for sure. I am going to place your entries one after the other. I want you to look at them, and then with clear conscience, interprete the first to mean exactly the second. We will see very clearly how honest you are. The differences are like Night, without the moon and stars, and day, a bright summer day, full of sunshine. Hey, just like this moment in Manhattan. Number 1 statement from Davidylan.
Number 2 statement from Davidylan.
Now david. You have both of your 2 entries, one after the other. Now tell me how is it possible that number 1 is to mean number 2? Remember that there is no texturial similarities except the Berean Christians whom you wish to ressucitate. After that, about Paul, its a case of Tomatoes and Oranges. Notice that I did not say apples and Oranges. I was going to say, Potatoes and Oranges. But a good friend adviced me against it. That I should not just decapitate your entries like so. At least i should give you some space for a fighting chance. I guess though, that you will rope yourself even tighter as we go along. If I were you, I will quit while I still have a chance to free myself. Aburo. How is the Summer? Its been nice, since the 4th. David you took all the stubbornness that belongs to Ijebu Ode township, without leaving any for me? I guess i should have the first choice of refusal. |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by olabowale(m): 9:11pm On Jul 11, 2008 |
@Davidylan:
For the sake of argument, if these people actual took the step you mentioned to allow, the holy spirit to mentor to them, of whatever Paul taught. Would they have done the same, if it was Jesus that was teaching them? If not why? Then explain this to me then, if Jesus clearly said something, like in the case of himself observing all the 10 commandments, to the point that he declared that he was on earth to fulfill them and warned anyone not to abolish them, even a single jot of it. If Jesus said that he and all persons have the same Lord God. Why then that after Jesus left the earth that Paul proposed the rejections of any of the 10 commandments? Example is the circumcision and the dietery where by Pork is now allowed. This is just a few from the 10, without wanting to go to the graven image and co. But I also have to allude to Mark 12 verse 29, actually complimenting the first of the 10 commands, of One single God. Now, in faces of these Old and new testaments stments, how did the trinity developed and jesus became one of three with his Lord? Caqn the Berean Christians be sincere to the Bible, without asking why are these verses, pre-Paul, against Post Jesus era, the period that Paul became the most important figure in christianity, over and above all the disciples that struggled with Jesus. Heck. Paul is almost as powerful as Jesus, if not more! Are we not seeing a usurper of opportunity here? Please david, I need a good lecture from you. And please don't shy away from a though decitation. |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by Nobody: 9:14pm On Jul 11, 2008 |
olabowale: Alhaji, this is very poor analysis from you . . . here is the bible verse in question - Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Very simple explanation - imagine if you were a student in a class learning at the feet of a learned professor . . . no matter how good you still need to get a standard textbook to do further study and understand much better the concepts the professor just taught you. Would studying a textbook imply that your professor was no good? olabowale: Uncle, there is still some stubborness left for you to claim. Just ask me where it is. |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by Nobody: 9:23pm On Jul 11, 2008 |
Caveat - Your question here is riddled with too many inconsistencies and is clearly a product of a mind that has either a poor grasp of the bible or a deceptive mind seeking to poke holes where there is none. olabowale: Mark 4:10 And when he was alone, they that were about him with the twelve asked of him the parable. Mark 4: 1-9, Christ just addressed the crowd along with His disciples on the parable of the sower. Alas even the 12 disciples were as confused as everyone else about the parable and had to ask the master questions in private! Analogy - When you dont understand a concept in class you have 3 options - read a textbook for better understanding (like the Berean christians did in Acts 17:11), ask your professor after the class (like the disciples did in Mark 4) or ask a more knowledgeable colleague. Why are you still perplexed? olabowale: You just betrayed your bias and ignorance. Circumcision and dietary laws are not part of the 10 commandments. olabowale: The trinity i know and the one you constantly peddle like a noise maker are not the same. The trinity i know is 1 God, 3 manifestations. olabowale: Even the disciples asked questions. olabowale: Dissertations are lost on those who are simply being mischievous. |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by olabowale(m): 9:36pm On Jul 11, 2008 |
@Davidylan:
Studying was not the Issue here. The Issue is there consulting the holy spirit to direct them! I asked the question, here and now again, then I will quote the line about the holy ghost/spirit; If Jesus was teaching them, would they have consulted or hoped that the holy spirit/ghost will make it clear for them? If your answer is yes, then I will ask why, since Jesus is in equal position of co-godship with the holy spirit/ghost. If your answer is no, then I will ask you who is more important, to christians and salvation, Jesus or Paul? Who is the one between the two that can do and undo for the good of the Christians, in this world and in the day of judgement? You will notice that I skip the grave because I do not know whether you will be raptured, right away, cheating death.
This is your quote, as a way to wiggle your way (I did not say wizzle) out of the primary entry where you gave us your thought of Professor Pauls lecture. Now I will post the act verse, which carries to indication of holy spirit/ghost about why the Berean Christians were studying the Scripture so much. THis also raised another issue, if these brand of Christians were studying the scripture, while after Paul was still teaching them, what Scripture were they studying? What is meant by Scripture here?
Please show me how you deduced a holy ghost/spirit from the above quote, to explain the previous action of the Berean Christians after Paul's infamous lectures? Now, if Jesus is in the same level as co-god of the Christians as the holyspirit/ghost, and definitely the boss of Paul, how can Paul therefore overtune what jesus never did disregard, of the 10 Commandments and other verse in the Bible that indicated tht Jesus is not God and not more than a human prophets? |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by Nobody: 9:51pm On Jul 11, 2008 |
olabowale: Both go hand in hand . . . Acts 17:11 These were more noble than those in Thessalonica, in that they received the word with all readiness of mind, and searched the scriptures daily, whether those things were so. Two things are clear in this verse: 1. They recieved the word (without which further study is impossible - i.e. you cant study physics if you didnt attend a single class in the first place). 2. They then went back to search the scriptures (study). Which is what you would expect of a good student - go home and do more detailed study so you can understand the concept much better. One thing not indicated here though but which can be easily gleaned from other bible verses - The letter killeth, but the Spirit giveth life. (2 Cor. 3:6) It is not possible to study the bible like your physics textbook . . . mere letters is not what makes the bible alive but the Holy Spirit inside you guiding you, teaching you those things that cannot be percieved by the carnal mind. olabowale: This question is meaningless. While Christ was physically on earth the disciples didnt need any Holy Spirit. They asked Christ directly. olabowale: Again another meaningless mismash of poorly understood biblical concepts. The disciples didnt need to go study the sciptures, they had Jesus Christ the Lord living amongst them. For the Berean christians it was not so, they didnt have the luxury of running of to meet Christ in private to ask the meaning of deeper biblical issues . . . they on the other hand had the scriptures of the prophets and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit to guide them. olabowale: They had the torah, they had some of the gospels, they definitely had the books of the old testament prophets as Christ and the other apostles quoted liberally from them in some of their letters. olabowale: Every true born again child of God has the indwelling of the Holy Spirit. Its not too farfetched to assume the Holy Spirit was guiding them in their spiritual walk with God. olabowale: Paul did not overturn any commandments. Like i said earlier pls remove your head from the sands of deliberate lies . . . circumcision and dietary laws are not part of the 10 commandments. |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by asamuel: 9:59pm On Jul 11, 2008 |
whatever you look for is what you get. There are still very few churches and christians who are living their lives and pleasing God. What's important my friends is your own life. It's not sufficient to castigate Christianity when our individual lives are not worth the testimony. The Church is not the physical building; it's you and me. So, before you quote 133 verses to prove that Christianity is not more living to its name, ask yourself whether you are a true believer first. I wish you God's grace. |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by olabowale(m): 10:08pm On Jul 11, 2008 |
@Davidylan:
Which position was Paul, compared to Jesus, since he overturned parts of the 10 commandments? Could he be the more learned to even the 12 disciples? Were they not the upperclassmen who should be tutoring paul, the freshman, who is now the one given lectures? Is paul ever a colleage of the 12 disciple if you think about it. The 12 were eyewitnesses, while paul at best was a person who was action one hearsay. Please note that the bible said that there will be 12 judging the 12 tribes. Is Paul among the 12 judges?
Then please do me a favor, list the 10 commandments of Moses. Further, it is no secret that Paul was instrumental in dismantling the need for circumcision and then he encouraged or allow pork to be eaten. You will have to work hard to deny this fact!
Let me use your analogy here to illustrate, the matriculating effort of the Berean Christians: The Professor who is teaching them, and the tutor who is given tutorial and the more learned colleague are one in different bodies/manifestions! Each with a different name though. Hogwash!
From a Prophet of God. A man who is given prophetic office, by The Almighty Supreme Creator, is not the same as a fake, who overtunes everything the prophet he claims to be following says. You will therefore see that what Jesus said, about God, is exactly what Moses said. This is exactly what is repeated by the "Unlettered Prophet, Muhammad bin Abdallah!" May Allah bless them all. Amin.
Thanks for the correction of my spelling. Mischievousness, is when is deceitful about a matter, knowingly doing so. I do not fall into that category with you. Now tell me, how do you explain the Mark 12 Veres 29, which clearly states, coming from Jesus that he is not God. Compare that to the verse, post Jesus wherein he is declared as god? Help out here. ts like two friends are arguing. The premise is known that one of them is 100% correct on the matter. If the other friend takes the completely 100% opposite position, then he has to be 100% incorrect. These two friends are in the Bible. Tell me who is correct, Jesus clear words about having a God, or, paul's assertions that Jesus is god? |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by Esss(m): 10:13pm On Jul 11, 2008 |
Try giving this message to the 1. Private Jet buying 2. 1 million naira Boat Cruise taking 3. Expensive and Unaffordable University building 4. 37 million auditoruim building 5. Presidential election contesting 6. 10 car convoy riding 7. heat-packing Bodyguard carrying 8. Prosperity preaching 9. Imported suit wearing 10. 50 thousand pound birthday throwing Pastors. Mr 8:36 For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul? |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by Nobody: 10:18pm On Jul 11, 2008 |
olabowale: This is the 3rd time i am correcting this deliberate lie . . . which of the 10 commandments did Paul overturn? olabowale: You laid the false allegation, the burden of proof is on you. Find me circumcision and dietary laws in the 10 commandments. olabowale: The circumcision is still very much around - water baptism . . . Read Colossians. olabowale: Your statement here is not only grammatically incorrect, it makes no sense whatsoever . . . hogwash is perfect description for it i agree. olabowale: There are plenty of verses where Christ said - I and MY FATHER ARE ONE. You wrote a long riposte . . . most of it was unintelligible nonsense. |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by Esss(m): 10:26pm On Jul 11, 2008 |
THE TEN COMMANDMENT OF GOD TO THE ISREALITES THROUGH MOSES Exodus 20:1 And God spake all these words, saying, 2 I am the LORD thy God, which have brought thee out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of bondage. {bondage: Heb. servants} 3 Thou shalt have no other gods before me. 4 Thou shalt not make unto thee any graven image, or any likeness of any thing that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth: 5 Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them, nor serve them: for I the LORD thy God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers upon the children unto the third and fourth generation of them that hate me; 6 And shewing mercy unto thousands of them that love me, and keep my commandments. 7 Thou shalt not take the name of the LORD thy God in vain; for the LORD will not hold him guiltless that taketh his name in vain. 8 Remember the sabbath day, to keep it holy. 9 Six days shalt thou labour, and do all thy work: 10 But the seventh day is the sabbath of the LORD thy God: in it thou shalt not do any work, thou, nor thy son, nor thy daughter, thy manservant, nor thy maidservant, nor thy cattle, nor thy stranger that is within thy gates: 11 For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the sabbath day, and hallowed it. 12 ¶ Honour thy father and thy mother: that thy days may be long upon the land which the LORD thy God giveth thee. 13 Thou shalt not kill. 14 Thou shalt not commit adultery. 15 Thou shalt not steal. 16 Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour. 17 Thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's house, thou shalt not covet thy neighbour's wife, nor his manservant, nor his maidservant, nor his ox, nor his ass, nor any thing that is thy neighbour's. |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by Nobody: 10:31pm On Jul 11, 2008 |
Alhaji here you go. Thanks Esss. |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by Nobody: 12:29am On Jul 12, 2008 |
@ threader, keep speaking on, think you are like the voice crying in the wilderness, |
Re: The Church Has Rejected Christianity by olabowale(m): 2:10am On Jul 12, 2008 |
@KunleOshob:
Kunle, I am recruiting for the "Crusade," African style. Orishi rishi e po ju. I will ignore the rest of your poor presentation. |
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