@SeanT21: Very confusing. Reason, when the Bible gives the geneology of Jesus, they never, ever nottake him as son of human persons. There is no place that they attach him as son of God in the two geneology lines in the Bible. It will be impossible to do because it will have to be that God is also the father of those forefathers of Jesus; both in bloodline, on his mother side, and the so called stepfather, Joseph the Capenter!

Interestingly, the Bible also said that the sons of God found the daughters of men pretty/beautiful/attractive and make wives of them and producebabies. I will like somebody to just explain your verse above and mine here, without fancy footworks. I want them in plain english without interpretation. These are easy and readable verses. I guess you and i are confusesd because they are opposing other major verses of the Bible.

The LORD said to my Lord,
This was David (seeing as a prophet) showing that there is the LORD God and the Lord Jesus.

Jesus proved once and for all with this that he was around even before david, and David saw him in the spirit.

Olabowale, this scripture should have convinced of of the divine pre-incarnate existence of Christ.

Olabowale, regarding your question. I will answer without any fancy footwork.

The sons of God are the angels. In the case, the fallen angels.

However, if you want fancy footwork, we can go into the original texts, to prove that the term used as 'sons of God' is different from the term which refers to Christ.

You can not put the Cart before the Horse, because the cart can't pull the horse

Learn from Tehellim(Psalms) not whatever false new testament book you are quoting Ea -Zeus Christos from. You can obviously see confusion here with his made up answer and there are lots more in the fake testament


Having got that out of the way



Psa 110:1 YHWH said to my Ruler and King David "Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.


The Psalms from 107 to 150 showed the chief authors to be both King Dawadah (David) and an Anonymous writer, also the two possible compilers were either EzraYah or NehemYah with the possible compilation dates b/w 610 BC - 430 BC


The pensman here very clearly states that Abba YAHAWAH(YHWH) said to his king,who at the time is King David to sit at YHWH'S right hand (YHWHS'S designated place and position of ultimate rulership,power and authority, not some seat in a big throne room in space). 

In this next verse we can see cleary King Dawadah in that position

Psa16:8 I (David) have set YAHAWAH  always before Me; for I (David) am at His(YHWH'S) Right Hand. Therefore, I shall not be moved nor shaken.


These scriptures have absolutey nothing  to do with the mythological greco roman god/man savior Ea -Zeus Christos a.k.a Jesus Christ !

You and I cannot change these recorded texts, only in your mind can you change it to be what the vatican has already implanted in your brain.

Is  sad that most have been taught to substitute Jesus anywhere David occurs, in the same manner, the same idea should also be applied wherever Solomon occcurs

Why won't they sub jesus were Solomon occurs isn't their jesus supposed to be the son of Solomon also?

This is the type of confusion that will always occur whenever you try to plagiarize the words of the Torah,Tanakh and Psalms in other to create this false new testament

Abba YHWH gave only one book of instructions fit for meditation and instruction in the way of righteousness, Please read:


Exd 24:12 Then YHWH said to Mosheh, "Come up to Me on the mountain and be there; and I will give you tablets of stone, and the law and commandments which I have written, that you may teach them." 

Exd 31:18 And when He had made an end of speaking with him on Mount Sinai, He gave Mosheh two tablets of the Testimony, tablets of stone, written with The Finger of YHWH

Yah 1:8   "This Book of the Law shall not depart from your mouth (TORAH, Instruction), but you shall meditate in it day and night, that you may observe to do according to all that is written in it. For then you will make your way prosperous, and then you will have good success.

If you can't obey this then you are deceiving no one else but yourself. Please don't give that line about the law being for the so called Jews only, because the law is for all mankind to obey.

Ecc 12:13    Now all has been heard; here is the conclusion of the matter: Reverence YHWH and keep HIS INSTRUCTION, for this is the whole duty of man.

Psa 1:2   But his delight is in the law of YHWH, And in His law he meditates day and night.

Psa 1:3   He shall be like a tree planted by the rivers of water, that brings forth its fruit in its season, whose leaf also shall not wither; and whatever he does shall prosper.

Deu 4:2   "You shall not add to the word which I command you, nor take from it, that you may keep the Laws of YHWH your Father which I command you

Ecc 3:14   I know that whatever YHWH does, It shall be forever. Nothing can be added to it, and nothing taken from it YHWH does it, that men should have reverence before Him.

Pro 30:6 Do not add to His words, lest He rebuke you, and you be found a liar

Hsa 6:1 Come, and let us return to YHWH; For He has torn, but He will heal us; He has stricken, but He will bind us up. 

Hsa 6:3 Let us know, Let us pursue the knowledge of YHWH. His going forth is established as the morning; He will come to us like the rain, Like the latter [and] former rain to the earth


YHWH has given you The Book of His Laws to meditate in day and night and with respect to this, all other books ( new testament) are forbidden to you for purposes of meditation and instruction in the Law so your should honestly burn them with fire because eventually YHWH will burn up all wickedness. The New Testament was added to the Torah to make it appear to be legitimate, but this book of Greek Hellenistic gods, cultures, and traditions is forbidden to all true Yisraylites.

Yahyl (Joel) 3:6   Also the people of Yahadah and the people of Yerusalem You have sold to the Greeks, the Hellenistic culture That you may remove them far from their borders.

Before any of you start freaking out, remember you are free to live and worship however you want, YHWH has given you the ability to make your own choices.

Salaam
Yisraylite

@Grouppoint: Please enlightened me? Which one is greater; the son that never ate and or defeacated (the Angels) or the son that ate, defeacated and lived like ordinary man?

Please since you may bring up "begotten," when you are going to talk about the sonship of Jesus, versus those of the Angels (I also believe that the angels assexuals. how then can they take daughters of man for wives and have children? But thats beside the point, except that i want you think about it for a moment), how does begotten comes about? How can you beget a child except that there is real sex takes place? How did God do this since there was no real sex here, or there was? If the answer is that there was no real sex, how did it happen and how then can Jesus be the begottened, except its only in mere name only, by those who wanted it to look so?

Interestingly, whats fallen Angels? If the fell, as in go against God, how could they still be sons of god, even as the sinned? If this is so, will it not nollify that fact that sinless God produces sinful sons and that may make Jesus brother to sinful siblings? Hence Jesus may not be sinless as the Christians think? Wouldn't all his interractions with the devil be considered s sinful, when one comsidered that he was controlled so easily as he was driven into the wilderness? I will like your explanations on the above.

If you chop down a tree that is good and not dead by just beginning to have leaves at the beginning of the spring, thereby depriving the birds and other animals to use it for their homes, and the summer shade that it should have provided for humans lazing about around it, will this not be a sinful thing?

At your the Lord said to my Lord, from David, proves nothing, except that there are two Lords here. Which one is truly the Lord? WE get that from the Lord that is capable of telling the other Lord what He will do for the Lesser Lord. Thelesser lord seems to be powerless and depends on the Greater Lord, who is capable of doing everything, including protecting the lesser lord. Do you now understand, that it is God Almighty who can protect Jesus and not the other way around? Sincerely, where is the third of the Trinity in this equation; on an errant? That seems to be what the holy spirit/ghost is known for!

And, oh since we are talking about when we were in the spiritual realm, I, Olabowale, was in spiritual existence before david ever was created as a human being. I was in spiritual realm before father Ibrahiim was created as a human being on this earth. Yet Ibrahim (as) was long gone from this earth before David (as). But there is no place in the Bible that Jesus could be clearly indicated to exist in heaven prior to the creation of Adam! Why? All man body and soul/spirit is from father Adam! That included that of Mother Eve!

Matthew 22:30 because in the resurrection, people neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like the angels in heaven.

At your the Lord said to my Lord, from David, proves nothing, except that there are two Lords here. Which one is truly the Lord? WE get that from the Lord that is capable of telling the other Lord what He will do for the Lesser Lord.

I also hate when yoruba people usually translate Olu to mean God. Olu means lord and was more likely to refer to the local King than to God. I had to correct my mother on the meaning of her name. She didn't like that as that was probably the first time I had to set her straight on something to do with family history. she is usually the teacher.

@Pastor AIO:
I like the way you put it, setting mom straight for the first time. So really, you agree wth me that the second lord in that verse is just a toothless lord, who actually depends on the real Lord? If you agree with me, why the heck are you in that group of 3 gods in 1?

Aren't you looking forward to altimate romance in paradise., man? I thought red blooded people will be looking for the best of what they enjoy.

Matthew 22:30 because in the resurrection, people neither marry nor are given in marriage but are like the angels in heaven.

You may not have sex, when you are recreated, because your condition may be so dire that you will wish to return to this earth to have a correct belief. However, me and all muslims, InshaAllah will go to Paradise. Part of the benefit of paradise is having all that is good on earth in an heavenly level. That includes its all its elementsand including the ejoyment of it.

So, since sex, part of the benefits of marriage is enjoyable and desired by real people, men and women, I am therefore looking forward to my full share, in heavens. You better join this group of those who will have good wholesome benefit of God'sfavor to be enjoyed in Paradise.

Grouppoint:

The LORD said to my Lord,
This was David (seeing as a prophet) showing that there is the LORD God and the Lord Jesus.

Jesus proved once and for all with this that he was around even before david, and David saw him in the spirit.

Olabowale, this scripture should have convinced of of the divine pre-incarnate existence of Christ.

so the trinity do exist?

@Grouppoint: Is this how to prove a point? Unfortunately, you did not reference the Bible Verse of Mark 12 verse 29, where Jesus himself said that his Lord and God is the same lord and God of his audience! This very verse should have convince you that if Jesus was a lord, his lordship is just the same as the kings and regents of african villages, towns and cities!

I guess a lord that is depending on another Lord for support, is not a lord, afterall.

@SeanT21: My dear sis, 2 is not 3. And definitely 3 can never be equal to 1! Trinity does not exist, even in the Bible.

that verse is simple - Christ was trying to make the pharisees realise something . . . He was God in the flesh.

@ davidylan

Poor guy, these greco- Romans have seriously brain washed you and turned you into a Roman citizen!

Psa 106:21 They forgot YHWH their SAVIOR, Who had done great things in Egypt

Isa 43:11 I, even I, am YHWH, and besides Me there is no savior. (so much for Ea-Zeus)


In spite of this, I bet Ea -Zeus shall still be your preferred savior

Salaam
Yisraylite

I like the way you put it, setting mom straight for the first time. So really, you agree wth me that the second lord in that verse is just a toothless lord, who actually depends on the real Lord? If you agree with me, why the heck are you in that group of 3 gods in 1?

Why do you keep assuming ppl agree with you, especially when you misunderstand what they say?

@~Lady~: Below is what Pastor AIO said, that waranted my response that you reacted to.
From Pastor AIO, a Yoruba man, using yoruba expression here: quote; "I also hate when yoruba people usually translate Olu to mean God. Olu means lord and was more likely to refer to the local King than to God. I had to correct my mother on the meaning of her name. She didn't like that as that was probably the first time I had to set her straight on something to do with family history. she is usually the teacher." unquote.

Until you speak, read and write Yoruba language, its impossible for you to argue with me about the language that is my mother tongue. You see that pastor AIO, is not arguing with me, but you are the one engaged in the argument? lol.

The same reason that we have been telling you that it would have been better if your Bible was in some senitic language, instead of its manuscript from Hellenstic language; Greek. The way you are to my Yoruba is the same way the reeks are to Jesus semitic language. Words and expressions are taking to mean the opposite true meaning!

@Olabowale. Sir, I do not think that I made any mention of Teeth, gums, or any aspect of the oral cavity. The next thing one knows is that I've accused Jesus of having no teeth. A beg o! That Olu means lord and is usually a reference to a local king does not mean that it cannot be used in reference to God.

Please do not on our account go fighting wars
please do not on our account go fighting wars
It is the person that the cap fits that will wear the cap
It is the person that the cap fits that will wear the cap
Please don't on our account go fighting wars.

I can't remember who sang this song. It's a yoruba highlife number.

@Pastor AIO: I think the first and second lines of your song, a song usually sang by women, to the duelling male suitors for her love. It goes some thing like this, "Please dont go on our (my) account fight to death (Ja ja ku o). But I hear you. But watch:

That [b]Olu means lord and is usually a reference to a local king does not mean that it cannot be used in refere[/b]nce to God.

Please note that it therefore, in the Biblical context does not mean it is LOrd God as the Sole Creator. The One True God. At best, considering the Primary Speaker being LORD, talking to another lord, who is the listener, we can only get the clear picture that this listener is an inferior lord. More like Baale to a real Oba. Or a town chief to the town King.

If we read Mark 12 Verse 29, we see that Jesus himself is telling his audience that he is in the same boat as them. That the Lord, whom they are well acquinted of His existence of not beng on earth, right there and then with them, as Jesus was speaking, is also Jesus' Lord God. If Jesus was a part of this Omnipotent God, he had his chance, he did not even hinted it, but declared that he was also a subject, like everyone else.

When I read Matt 5 verse 18 or so, the verse that indicated to us that the Jews ae now determined to kill him because they perceive him to be equating himself as being equal/as high as God, we can not but ask why? The reasons that come to mind are many. One of them will have to be that it is foreign to the jews that no one or people was/were ever called son(s) of God. They know that God does not have a son or sons. They know that that will destroy the idea of permanent dominance over the dominions to hav offspring. Only those who have offsprings are considered mortal. Offspring replaces a dying entity.

To be son of God will mean that the entity will inherit the nature of God. This means that the son will have to be worshipped just as God is worshipped. This goes against worshipping One God, the concept which is practiced by all before the "so called son of God," came about. It will also gives the clear impression that God is now touchable, can be seen and can be studied and be determined, and his emotion can be projected for all to see, since His son would just have all his qualities, including dimensions. You see where am going with this, man? I could develop a whole textbook on this, just to make it clear that that concept of son of God, completely rattled the Jews. It is considered bogus by them. t deemed impossible based on all the experiences that had occurred with Moses in the Old testment. Yet Moses was a prophet among prophets, for he spoke to God many times, but never have seen Him, ever! He performed many more miracles and liberated the Jews from tyranny. Jesus never did as much as him, and clearly no one heard that he was declared by God as His son, before the Jews made that conclusion that he was now considering himself to be son of God!

If the people at his baptizm have heard the alleged voice from heavens, while the heavens opened up and the dovelike spirit of God descended, it would have been talk of the nations and the jews would have been used to that idea of a son of God, since it would have been heard by witnesses, who would just say they were there when it happened! Since this was not the cae, these story about God, heaven opening up, dovelike spirit descending and declaration of begotten son whom God is well pleased is all a charade, bogus an fake! (Osisi, she you dey hear me?) It is this fakery of prophethood, which the Jews thought drove Jesus to make insinuation that they cansidered blasphamy to God. That is the reason they want to kill him.

So the lord listening to the statement of the Lord, about how he will be honorred and defended, is the small potato lord. Is like when a wife calls any member of her husband's household, Oko mi. Who is the Oko, in the true sense? The little boy is not the Oko of the grown woman, except that he is fake Oko. Let him try to actually perform the act. You will see how he is immediately told his place. (Have you heard Olowo Orimi o, when the yoruba wives say it? Or even the mother or stepmother calls the sons/daughters Oko mi? Even daughters, man.

This is the case with Jesus (AS), son of Virgin Mary! The protestants, still call this woman virgin, after they insinuated that Old man Joseph the capenter got two babies from her. Could she truly remain a vigin, after she had been mounted?

olabowale:

@Pastor AIO: I think the first and second lines of your song, a song usually sang by women, to the duelling male suitors for her love. It goes some thing like this, "Please don't go on our (my) account fight to death (Ja ja ku o). But I hear you. But watch:

Thank you! I love that song. Fela did a cover of it that he used to perform live but never recorded. I also seem to remember Olaiya singing a cover of it. So the song probably pre-dates the hi-life era. Having only heard it being sung by men I was not aware of the context of duelling male suitors for a woman's hand.

But you are right about so much getting lost in translation in scriptures. Not only in translation but even within the same culture a word can often get inverted in meaning. Like today someone can say a piece of music sounds 'Bad' meaning good. Without knowledge of the context people can get confused. Imagine the shock of an oyinbo girl who marries a nigerian and finds that she has married his whole family and as such is referred to as their wife, even by her sister in laws!

@poster,

The verse is not confusing et al. . . all d answers r in the Holy scriptures.

Ok, for doubters of the Trinity or the Divinity of Jesus Christ, how can you explain this Biblical Verse in Proverbs 30:4


Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended? who hath gathered the wind in His fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is His Son's Name, if thou canst tell?

@SeanT21,

Psalm 110:1 - The LORD said to my Lord, Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”

While the Pharisees were gathered together, Jesus asked them, saying, “What do you think about the Christ? Whose Son is He?” They said to Him, “ The Son of David.” He said to them, “How then does David in the Spirit call Him ‘Lord,’ saying: “The LORD said to my Lord,“ Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool”? If David then calls Him ‘Lord,’ how is He his Son?” And no one was able to answer Him a word, nor from that day on did anyone dare question Him anymore.

Can someone explain that verse?

This verse is very clear in its implication. It clearly reveals that David was given the priviledge to listen in on a trinitarian conversation. Just like Stephen in the NT who saw heaven opened and Jesus standing on the right hand of the Father, David actually overhead their conversation (though the scripture does not indicate he saw anything).


There are two Personalities which we see here - "The Lord" and "My Lord". The first refers to Almighty God in His Majesty and exceeding glory. This is the essence of God that Jesus declares in the NT that no man has seen. "My Lord" on the other hand refers to God who is relatable to and approachable to man. He represents God personalised through experience. This is the one the scriptures refer to as the WORD who manifested in the flesh in the fullness of His relationship to man.

This is why I can't figure out why some people say Jesus was never revealed or manifested in the flesh in the OT (saying all we saw was just the Holy Spirit). Anytime God manifests in the flesh in the OT, the people who experienced it are able to personalise that revelation of God which is why we get names like Jehoveh Nissi, Jehoveah Rapha, Jehovah Tsikednu, Jehovah Jireh etc. This is "The Lord" becoming "My Lord" to these folks.

In the NT however, we don't just declare Jehovah is this and that to us. When we declare "Jesus", it represents the fullness of God's manifestation in the flesh. He becomes everything personal of "God" to us, He becomes - "My Lord".

I hope my little piece helps somebody, 'cos its getting me shouting here already. Glory to God - Jehovah Jesus!

@Ndipe:

Ok, for doubters of the Trinity or the Divinity of Jesus Christ, how can you explain this Biblical Verse in Proverbs 30:4

This confirm doubter will give you an answer to one of your questions below. That will shut you up quick. rather will throw you into a confusion frenzy. Just watch me now. InshaAllah.

Who hath ascended up into heaven, or descended?

Muhammad did in his Isra wa Miraj night journey. Read it in the first ayah of Surah Isra, and then almost all of Surah Najm is about the heaven portion, the sight and sound of the journey. You can google tafsir Ibn Kathir for it. Or just buy the book or borrow one from the library about the Subject. Anybody on that Subject will have the same subject as Title or derivatives of it. The nIght Journey of Muhammad (AS).

This is enough to derail your hypothesis of trying to associate Jesus with God Almighty, more than a mere prophet and messenger specific for the nations of Israel. Now try to provide analysis of mark 12 Verse 29 which Davidylan, Queenisha and others in the Christian community of Nairaland have failed to do. s Jesus in that Verse of mark 12 Verse 29, talking about himself or his partner, whereby he let us know that entity he was referring to is also his own Lord God. Obviously, the statement states that thsi Lord God is indivisible, and we know He is not breaking to three persons or personality forms, at no time. Jesus woud have told us, in that vey verse if it is so.

Ol boy, the ball is in your court. I ask you to be Christian Chukwu and not Maradonna here.

who hath gathered the wind in his fists? who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth? what is his name, and what is his son's name, if thou canst tell?

Instead of me answering every question therefore, my chopping of to give you clear understanding that your questions are not truly unique 100% to anyone here, is sufficient. Now Ndipe, try to chew on the Deut. verse shereby God spoke to Jesus abut a future prophet to be raised, who will be like Moses, from their bretheren, whom God will put His words in his mouth and will say only wat he is commanded. Please who is this prophet of the future, who is a subordinate to God? I hope that you will answer as best as you can, with sincerity. Considering in essence that the Christians claim that Jesus is son of God, and this is the reason that the Jews were determined to kill him off, since that very speech indicates that he is saying that he is equal to God. A blaspemous thought the Jews felt.

And by the way, Islam is in Igboland, already and growing. Ready to put on your islamic garment if you can't saisfy the the assignments above. You can even make your own Proverb verse essense unique enough anyway.

Ndipe:


who hath bound the waters in a garment? who hath established all the ends of the earth?

Ologbon kan o le ta koko omi si eti aso
no wise man can tie a knot of water with the edge of a garment. - The King of Edu

Guys if you were following that thread (the Gospel of Barnabas the true forgotten gospel), you will know the exact meaning of the verse according to Christ. That lord sitting on the Right Hand of God is Mohammed.Q.E.D.

Check chapter 43:https://www.nairaland.com/nigeria/topic-131316.288.html for more details

Tayo-D:

@SeanT21,
This verse is very clear in its implication. It clearly reveals that David was given the priviledge to listen in on a trinitarian conversation. Just like Stephen in the NT who saw heaven opened and Jesus standing on the right hand of the Father, David actually overhead their conversation (though the scripture does not indicate he saw anything).


There are two Personalities which we see here - "The Lord" and "My Lord". The first refers to Almighty God in His Majesty and exceeding glory. This is the essence of God that Jesus declares in the NT that no man has seen. "My Lord" on the other hand refers to God who is relatable to and approachable to man. He represents God personalised through experience. This is the one the scriptures refer to as the WORD who manifested in the flesh in the fullness of His relationship to man.

This is why I can't figure out why some people say Jesus was never revealed or manifested in the flesh in the OT (saying all we saw was just the Holy Spirit). Anytime God manifests in the flesh in the OT, the people who experienced it are able to personalise that revelation of God which is why we get names like Jehoveh Nissi, Jehoveah Rapha, Jehovah Tsikednu, Jehovah Jireh etc. This is "The Lord" becoming "My Lord" to these folks.

In the NT however, we don't just declare Jehovah is this and that to us. When we declare "Jesus", it represents the fullness of God's manifestation in the flesh. He becomes everything personal of "God" to us, He becomes - "My Lord".

I hope my little piece helps somebody, 'because its getting me shouting here already. Glory to God - Jehovah Jesus!

Thanks For that clarification!!!

Psalm 110:1 - The LORD said to my Lord, Sit at My right hand, Till I make Your enemies Your footstool.”

This verse above is a true representation to the fact that Christ manifested even the Old testament, and also in addition to the fact the TRINITY truly and does exist.

The LORD = God Almighty

My Lord = Jesus Christ.

The bible makes us to know Christ is seated at the right hand side of God, and David ( a man after Gods' heart) was privileged in the shoes of a prophet to have knowledge of this conversation.

@all posters in this thread.

One of the greatest mysteries in this life is this:

[size=16pt]"Why can't men ever say, "I don't know."[/size]

When you come across a question that you can't answer, why don't you just keep quite or say that you don't know the answer. Rather than being honest, men make up all sorts gibberish and try to force it on others.

In the Gospel of Mathew, Jesus was reported to have said:

"No one knows when that day or hour will come-not the angels in heaven, nor the Son, but only the Father,
(New American Standard Bible (©1995)(Mathew 24:36)


If Jesus who was the son of God could agree that there is something He does not know, why can't we humans who are mere creatures be honest enough to do the same.

(Assuming that Jesus actually said exactly that.) I can only assume because I was not there when He said it.

why is it so difficult for u christians to understand a simple fact that Jehovah ( i.e YHWH) is greater and therefore not the same person as Jesus. john 14:28. why do u still want to remain in the boundage of the Trinity doctrine made by the catholic church under roman emperor Constantine during the dark ages? leter you will claim u have broken out of catholic church while you still carry their teachings all aroind.
Jehovah (YHWH) is Almighty God and Jesus is called his son for he was Gods first creation ( colosians 1:15-17) later God sent him to d earth as the promised Messiah (he fulfilled many messianic prophecies @the jewish guys) when John 1:1 refered to him as God it only meant that the son of a lion is also a lion. he was never called almighty God. visit www.jw.org to get more explanations to d topic