Listen man, like I said, we all do it. We try to steer our threads towards some ultimate conclusions. And yes, I get pissed when an interloper derails the thread away from my intended thesis.
The difference, in this case, is that you appear to be a greater control freak than most US, and it was very evident by your loquacious bombasity.

plaetton: Listen man, like I said, we all do it. We try to steer our threads towards some ultimate conclusions. And yes, I get pissed when an interloper derails the thread away from my intended thesis.
The difference, in this case, is that you appear to be a greater control freak than most US, and it was very evident by your loquacious bombasity.

. . . . and still not a word about your leaf. . . .

You're amazing, man.

PS: If the accusation is an attempt to steer the thread to certain conclusions, I plead guilty to that one, and that would be obvious to even a toddler. I am not aware that it is a crime. It is rather the normal and natural object of such discourses as this: where the intending discussant is of course trying to pass across thoughts that he has dwelt upon already - and exchange of ideas. Nothing special there.

I am not "pissed off" by any "interloping" - if anything, I believe a great text on subjectivity and objectivity and their place in discussion and debate has been laid out here. I see a lot of future reference to the debate on subjectivity here: for I do not see how you wish to utter one objective word in future again, and for the rest of your life, without it being annulled by the very same contentions you have made here.

One thing that is certain is that you really need to re check the level of unfortunate emotionalism in your responses here. "Animosity" - "lies" - "violent lashing out" - "feeling threatened" - "provocative" - - -> are all your words and not mine. Sad, sad, sad and very small. Sad because I thought, and still think, very highly of you, and always will, whatever comes. Address points and stop resorting to personal emotion. It has no place in a debate. You of all people surely know this.

Deep Sight:

Even maintaining a pose involves a thought of what you are doing, and continuing to do.

Look, you don't need to accept the simple idea that you are a thinking being you know.

It is possible, in fact, likely, that you are not.

First sentence is a lie.

Really? Well the last sentence certainly isn't.

I just dey laugh

FIRST PICTURE (A MAN):
He's thinking. Probably trying to analyse a situation he is involved in and take a decision.
He could be making a plan in his head after which he would act out in order to make manifest of it.

However, he could be in an undesirable emotional state whereby he is regretting an action or worried about a loved one.

All in all, he's thinking!


STONE AND A BRAIN:
The Stone; Lacks consciousness. Not a living thing. Cannot make decisions!

The Brain; The tool central to the thinking man's existence as a Man, a human being.

Like someone already pointed out, they (the stone and the brain) are made up o the same material.
So a question pops up in my mind, why the different forms?

THE MOTHER AND HER CHILD:
She in happy and in awe of the new born. Probably thinking...what mystery?
I just produced something of my kind without any say as to what and how it came to be.
What's responsible for this?

She is obviously excited even though the baby is not displaying any emotion.
What could she possibly be laughing or smiling at?

kwangi: FIRST PICTURE (A MAN):
He's thinking. Probably trying to analyse a situation he is involved in and take a decision.
He could be making a plan in his head after which he would act out in order to make manifest of it.

However, he could be in an undesirable emotional state whereby he is regretting an action or worried about a loved one.

All in all, he's thinking!


STONE AND A BRAIN:
The Stone; Lacks consciousness. Not a living thing. Cannot make decisions!

The Brain; The tool central to the thinking man's existence as a Man, a human being.

Like someone already pointed out, they (the stone and the brain) are made up o the same material.
So a question pops up in my mind, why the different forms?

What if the man is told to pose as if he is thinking?

Logicboy03:

What if the man is told to pose as if he is thinking?

He'll be thinking of the pose.
Whether he got it correct.
He'll also be thinking of the picture he's about to take, if it's gonna come out nice or be up to the intended taste.

Logicboy03:

What if the man is told to pose as if he is thinking?

Settle down: and stop confusing yourself.

1. Even posing connotes thought - the thought of posing.

2. The image of what he is posing as - is still an image of a thinking man - which is what you are called to address.

Think on the object of what you are seeking to argue. What do you seek to argue -

1. That the image does not evoke a thinking man?

2. That we are not thinking beings?

I already told you that that may be true of you, but not necessarily of others, okay?

Deep Sight:

Settle down: and stop confusing yourself.

1. Even posing connotes thought - the thought of posing.

How silly.

Let us stretch the failed logic


"Even breathing connotes thought".....do you think about breathing every second you do?



If I told you- "stand with your right hand on your chin" and I acted the pose out for you to copy....then you do it......did you just think about posing or did you just mimic me?


And whatever you thought, you thought during the time you mimicked me......you have done the pose and the thought before the pose....at the time I that I would be taking the picture, your though about the mimicking would have been gone........

Logicboy03:

How silly.

Let us stretch the failed logic


"Even breathing connotes thought".....do you think about breathing every second you do?



If I told you- "stand with your right hand on your chin" and I acted the pose out for you to copy....then you do it......did you just think about posing or did you just mimic me?


And whatever you thought, you thought during the time you mimicked me......you have done the pose and the thought before the pose....at the time I that I would be taking the picture, your though about the mimicking would have been gone........

Very bad analogy because breathing is involuntary while posing for a picture is very deliberate and voluntary.

Your grasp of elementary reasoning is slipping to ever new lows. Please just go, I am tired of speaking to such. Constant interaction with you is bound to gradually make one s.tupid.

kwangi: FIRST PICTURE (A MAN):
He's thinking. Probably trying to analyse a situation he is involved in and take a decision.
He could be making a plan in his head after which he would act out in order to make manifest of it.

However, he could be in an undesirable emotional state whereby he is regretting an action or worried about a loved one.

All in all, he's thinking!

Yes thank you, again, the spectre of thought.

What do you think thoughts are, by the way?

Do you hear your thoughts in your head, when you think, or sometimes just feel or "see" them in your mind's eye.

"Mind's eye" - what is that by the way? Like you can sit down an form a picture in your mind of a place or person far away. You see that in your mind, no? Where is that. What eye sees that? Or what mind sees that? And how does it do this? Does this say anything about what the mind is, and what capacities it has. Does this give a hint about mind being beyond matter, or is mind just matter. \

Ah - and that question touches on the second pic and your comment on it - - - >

STONE AND A BRAIN:
The Stone; Lacks consciousness. Not a living thing. Cannot make decisions!

The Brain; The tool central to the thinking man's existence as a Man, a human being.

Like someone already pointed out, they (the stone and the brain) are made up o the same material.
So a question pops up in my mind, why the different forms?

Exactly.

Does this say something about the source of life and the nature of living things as opposed to the nature of matter?

kwangi: THE MOTHER AND HER CHILD:
She in happy and in awe of the new born. Probably thinking...what mystery?
I just produced something of my kind without any say as to what and how it came to be.
What's responsible for this?

She is obviously excited even though the baby is not displaying any emotion.
What could she possibly be laughing or smiling at?

Interesting comment. Do you think there is a clue implicit in this about the nature of and purpose of creation?

Self-propagation - what does it tell us?

Is there any hint in the complex and awe-inspiring systems that deliver a birth in the first place?

Deep Sight:

Very bad analogy because breathing is involuntary while posing for a picture is very deliberate and voluntary.

Your grasp of elementary reasoning is slipping to ever new lows. Please just go, I am tired of speaking to such. Constant interaction with you is bound to gradually make one s.tupid.

Here is your comment that I was replying to

Deep Sight:


1. Even posing connotes thought - the thought of posing.

What if the pose is involuntary? How are you sure that he was posing for a picture? The above point is inherently false

If I was touching my chin as a result of pain from a sore there and someone snapped me without my knowledge?


*Touching the chin is the thinking pose

Logicboy03:


Here is your comment that I was replying to






What if the pose is involuntary? How are you sure that he was posing for a picture? The above point is inherently false

If I was touching my chin as a result of pain from a sore there and someone snapped me without my knowledge?


*Touching the chin is the thinking pose

Lol. So much to say in response to this joke of a response. But i'll pass. You're in terribly poor form today. Please just go, I don't want this place littered with your posts. It will be most unpleasant for my visitors to see your droppings all over the living room. They are unsightly, and do not smell nice.

Deep Sight:

Lol. So much to say in response to this joke of a response. But i'll pass. You're in terribly poor form today. Please just go, I don't want this place littered with your posts. It will be most unpleasant for my visitors to see your droppings all over the living room. They are unsightly, and do not smell nice.

lol............you that tried to argue that every action requires thought....abegi


My argument has always been that our description will be subjective as we cant ask the man what he was doing in the pic. You tried to argue that it will always OBJECTIVELY be the case that he was thinking.

Fail.

Logicboy03:


lol............you that tried to argue that every action requires thought....abegi


My argument has always been that our description will be subjective as we cant ask the man what he was doing in the pic. You tried to argue that it will always OBJECTIVELY be the case that he was thinking.

Fail.

Okay. Now please go and do your homework dear. And when you are done, the dishes as well. Don't forget to feed the dogs and bring up my night cap (Guiness Stout) before you go to bed.

Your loving father, DS.

Deep Sight:

Okay. Now please go and do your homework dear. And when you are done, the dishes as well. Don't forget to feed the dogs and bring up my night cap (Guiness Stout) before you go to bed.

Your loving father, DS.

^^^

Words of a debunked man

Make I go watch arsenal

Logicboy03: Make I go watch arsenal

Its starting now right? I hope you are not an Arsenal fan o? I retired about six years ago. I can't cope with lack of ambition.

"I'll be back".
I hope we don't lose to liverpool.

kwangi: "I'll be back".
I hope we don't lose to liverpool.

"WE" ? ? ? ? ?

Don't allow yourself to strive towards the rewards of mediocrity and lack of ambition and competition.

@deepsight

You can go on. I'm following

Kay 17: @deepsight

You can go on. I'm following

Thank you. But can I crave your indulgence first on these -

Deep Sight: Well, too much has been said on the question of subjectivity and what can be known. Anyone interested in that debate can read the posts above.

Let us now focus on the tendergarten excercise set out in the OP, with those who are interested in where it might lead.

Okay, Kay17, let's take your thoughts on the images first.



The words in bold are indeed what the image evokes to anyone, and of course is exactly what it is intended to evoke.

Thought.

Man.

Man and thought.

What is man. And what is thought.

Secondly, most interesting that you said - "The strenuous effort of reasoning -- gift from the Greeks"

I like "strenuous effort of reasoning" -

For this calls up the understanding that a being could deliberately exert itself to place its thoughts through a logical process: and that in itself calls up the fundamental existence of logic as a pillar, perhaps the pillar of reality. One thing moving to the next as a cause or consequence: this would be cardinal in discussing existential reality.

Please give me your thoughts on the above and lets take it further.

We will go to your thoughts on the other images after this - - - if that's cool by you.

And additionally this -

Deep Sight:

Yes thank you, again, the spectre of thought.

What do you think thoughts are, by the way?

Do you hear your thoughts in your head, when you think, or sometimes just feel or "see" them in your mind's eye.

"Mind's eye" - what is that by the way? Like you can sit down an form a picture in your mind of a place or person far away. You see that in your mind, no? Where is that. What eye sees that? Or what mind sees that? And how does it do this? Does this say anything about what the mind is, and what capacities it has. Does this give a hint about mind being beyond matter, or is mind just matter. \

Ah - and that question touches on the second pic and your comment on it - - - >



Exactly.

Does this say something about the source of life and the nature of living things as opposed to the nature of matter?

Your thoughts on these, please, if you don't mind, and we shall carry on?

Logicboy03:

How silly.

Let us stretch the failed logic


"Even breathing connotes thought".....do you think about breathing every second you do?



If I told you- "stand with your right hand on your chin" and I acted the pose out for you to copy....then you do it......did you just think about posing or did you just mimic me?


And whatever you thought, you thought during the time you mimicked me......you have done the pose and the thought before the pose....at the time I that I would be taking the picture, your though about the mimicking would have been gone........

you are shamelessly and generally embarrasing yourself in a public forum.
Why are you constantly making pathetic comebacks these days?

Smh.
Double smh.

@DS

As is frequently said the ever present eye of the camera which sees all and is not seen.

My thoughts are my projections, my property, my whole world I form within. My world wherein my existence, essence, my knowledge is expressed both inwardly and outwardly. This self created inner world is a stolen idea from the outer universe, is a necessity of our projected/percieved self.

In other words, an elaborate perception of one's self. For a blimd person - - blind from birth, his thoughts lack pictures, rather filled with sounds and sensations. Reason being that he is unable to steal from the outer universe, he is limited.

Just as our thoughts and ideas are limited by our ignorance. And this has more to say about ourselves more than the world out there.

Joshthefirst: you are shamelessly and generally embarrasing yourself in a public forum.
Why are you constantly making pathetic comebacks these days?

Smh.
Double smh.

Ode.....like you understand what we are saying.....calm down......you dont have the capacity for logic.

Logicboy03:


Ode.....like you understand what we are saying.....calm down......you dont have the capacity for logic.

Look at what you said publicly logicboy:

Logicboy03:
"Even breathing connotes thought".....do you think about breathing every second you do?



If I told you- "stand with your right hand on your chin" and I acted the pose out for you to copy....then you do it......did you just think about posing or did you just mimic me?


And whatever you thought, you thought during the time you mimicked me......you have done the pose and the thought before the pose....at the time I that I would be taking the picture, your though about the mimicking would have been gone........

Smh is an understatement.

Joshthefirst:
Look at what you said publicly logicboy:


Smh is an understatement.

1 billion pounds says that you can't point out Wat is wrong with my comment.

You just ran to support deepsight, assuming that he was rightfully mocking me without thinking

Deep Sight:

Yes thank you, again, the spectre of thought.

What do you think thoughts are, by the way?

Do you hear your thoughts in your head, when you think, or sometimes just feel or "see" them in your mind's eye.

Thoughts, I think thoughts are projections of our reality in the abstract where they can be modified, rearranged to adhere or fit in to the world of the abstract.

Since I think it's a projection of our realities, I hear, feel and see these projections as I do with my physical senses.
However, when thinking I don't think I could differentiate hearing, feeling and seeing in that world.
They seem to be merged.

Logicboy03:


1 billion pounds says that you can't point out Wat is wrong with my comment.

You just ran to support deepsight, assuming that he was rightfully mocking me without thinking

it seems you still don't even know what is wrong with your own statement.

Here's what you said:

Logicboy03:
If I told you- "stand with your right hand on your chin" and I acted the pose out for you to copy....then you do it......did you just think about posing or did you just mimic me?

how is the fact that the very act of mimicing involves thinking hard to understand?