hemartins: I've been praying for this. I can now travel to the UK.

as dis one kon bi like dis so na so US Visa Lottery go be too. Dem go soon make dem call Naija to come back.

Thank God na me dey start d second page. 1st meeeeeeeee. lol

omar22: When India and South Africa showed their disappointment and planned to suspend all business transaction worth over 20bn a year the UK government pulled the hand break

So India and SA were the two countries that influenced the suspension of the bond? Hmmmm... I no wan hear anybody for hia open him smelly mouth praise Nigeria.

EBK2: You guys shouldn't be mad at leaders that are always looking for ways of taking decisions for the interest if their country. That Nigerian leaders don't care about Nigeria and Nigerians doesn't mean other countries' leaders shouldn't.
There are lots if labour related immigration issues to sort out in Nigeria especially as it relates to Nigerian workers, foreign companies and expats and none of your politicians is doing anything about it. In Britain, illegal immigration has been a big issue and the Tories are looking for ways to sort it out. Immigration is a big issue even in Nigerian only that Nigerian politicians don't know how to solve any problem. They have no clue. Remember, the 3000 is refundable if the immigrant complies to the terms of his/her visa which she agreed to the day the visa was issued. Sentiment apart, let's call a spade a spade. Uk doesn't mind immigration. They just don't want riff raff coming in here to cause trouble and British jobs should be for the Brita first. Nothing wrong with that. Nigerian jobs (if any) should be for nigerian, that's if nigerian leaders will care enough about Nigerians to have such policies.We don't like obeying rules and complying to agreement. If Nigerian government introduces such policy, British people will still pay and comply but I don't think the same will be said of nigerian visa applicant. For those that bad mouth Britain because Nigerian economy is growing,you have no idea what you are talking about. Compare Britain to Nigeria using all know indices, it will take Nigeria at least 200years to be like Britain, that's assuming GB remains stagnant. Am not trying to be funny and I love Nigeria but Nigeria is still a developing within the next 11, provides less opportunity naff hope for its people and lagging behind the BRIC emerging markets.
Britain is 60mil in population, with over £1t GDP representing 4% of world economy. Oldest democracy with more global influence than the whole of Africa put together, owns the global language and time zone for international business. Compare it with Nigeria: population of 170m, GDP if £180bln.
There are 109 universities in the uk and 133 higher education all fully funded and managed, and can never be on strike for 4 months.
The ignorance and illiteracy in this NL is just too much

Welldone. Truth is bittersweet. The ignorance and illiteracy you mentioned is the bane of Nigeria. You begin to see how Nigeria is the way it is. It's the people that make a country great but the people that make up Nigeria are like the crew on a circus, ask foreigners. The tragedy is that we don't realise that Nigeria can never work. #Breakup

cap28:
Comparing Nigeria to a country that built its wealth on the enslavement of Africans of and the theft of Africa's resources is like comparing a victim of armed robbery with an armed robber snd pointing out how much richer and successful the armed robber is. Reading your type of posts makes me realise how much the nigerian educational system has failed

MY Brother, you are blessed and may the Almighty God continue to enrich you in knowledge..you've said it all

cap28:
Comparing Nigeria to a country that built its wealth on the enslavement of Africans of and the theft of Africa's resources is like comparing a victim of armed robbery with an armed robber snd pointing out how much richer and successful the armed robber is. Reading your type of posts makes me realise how much the nigerian educational system has failed

Very true. The only addition that I would make is that it was more than theft from Africa that enriched that island. They also stole much from India (known as the jewel of the Empire) and forced the Chinese to cede territory and partake in a trade in opiates that did not benefit China. Not to speak of their land grabbing in north America and Australasia and the wealth that they took from those places for their own benefit.

EBK2: You guys shouldn't be mad at leaders that are always looking for ways of taking decisions for the interest if their country. That Nigerian leaders don't care about Nigeria and Nigerians doesn't mean other countries' leaders shouldn't.
There are lots if labour related immigration issues to sort out in Nigeria especially as it relates to Nigerian workers, foreign companies and expats and none of your politicians is doing anything about it. In Britain, illegal immigration has been a big issue and the Tories are looking for ways to sort it out. Immigration is a big issue even in Nigerian only that Nigerian politicians don't know how to solve any problem. They have no clue. Remember, the 3000 is refundable if the immigrant complies to the terms of his/her visa which she agreed to the day the visa was issued. Sentiment apart, let's call a spade a spade. Uk doesn't mind immigration. They just don't want riff raff coming in here to cause trouble and British jobs should be for the Brita first. Nothing wrong with that. Nigerian jobs (if any) should be for nigerian, that's if nigerian leaders will care enough about Nigerians to have such policies.We don't like obeying rules and complying to agreement. If Nigerian government introduces such policy, British people will still pay and comply but I don't think the same will be said of nigerian visa applicant. For those that bad mouth Britain because Nigerian economy is growing,you have no idea what you are talking about. Compare Britain to Nigeria using all know indices, it will take Nigeria at least 200years to be like Britain, that's assuming GB remains stagnant. Am not trying to be funny and I love Nigeria but Nigeria is still a developing within the next 11, provides less opportunity naff hope for its people and lagging behind the BRIC emerging markets.
Britain is 60mil in population, with over £1t GDP representing 4% of world economy. Oldest democracy with more global influence than the whole of Africa put together, owns the global language and time zone for international business. Compare it with Nigeria: population of 170m, GDP if £180bln.
There are 109 universities in the uk and 133 higher education all fully funded and managed, and can never be on strike for 4 months.
The ignorance and illiteracy in this NL is just too much

What's your point? There will continue to be an influx of skilled graduates from developing African countries to the West for the forseeable future no matter how good the leaders are. What's wrong with these same people contributing to their home country's economy through remitted funds.
The reason they are called developing is that the local economy produces much more skilled labour than it can gainfully employ, so stop lambasting federal government officials for that. It is the way the global economy functions.
Those foreign investors you refer to are here to make the profitable investments available in an emerging market economy like Nigeria's which would ultimately grow the economy and create employment, so quit whining about expatriates.

Good for dem because na dem go lose. Nigerians have a lot to offer dem

Dem no get the mind now........make dem try ham

@Tenso77: my point is that we shouldn't get mad when other countries are trying to protect their economies by doing what they think is right for them, considering we have the opportunity to do so for our own country. We may not like it but British politicians of all political divides care more about what the British people think than what Nigerians think and that's the way it should be. Nigerian politicians should do the same for Nigerians even when outsiders don't like it. They only come up with retaliatory and reactionary immigration policies. If you consider the ways nigerian politicians and nigerian embassies overseas treat Nigerians, you will realise the scale if rot in d system. Most if them care about their pockets than they care about you lot.
@ cap28 whats up with Nigeria since after colonialism. There are benefit British colonialism brought to Nigeria and I want you to consider for a moment countries that were colonised by the French, Germany and Portugese and those that were not colonised at all. America was under British colonialism and China was once under Japanese colonialism, so think about it. I think bringing Colonialism is just a cheap argument.
Can I say this and a lot of you will bash me for it: so many Nigerians that witnessed colonialism will prefer Nigeria of that era than the mess you have today. I love Nigeria and believe things will change but I am just putting sentiment aside and stating the facts.

To others that are abusing me: I wish you can have a meaningful debate. Refer to the same ignorance and illiteracy I mentioned earlier.

And for those saying they won't come to d UK, that's the objective. They want to reduce the number of people that come here and if you decide not to come, they are one step ahead towards achieving that objective. Whether that is good or not is not up to you to judge but for British people to judge. Go and make your country attractive enough that others will want to come to your country but you will rather they didn't.
Harsh but true!

benjsniper33:
MY Brother, you are blessed and may the Almighty God continue to enrich you in knowledge..you've said it all

thank you my brother.

mmsen:

Very true. The only addition that I would make is that it was more than theft from Africa that enriched that island. They also stole much from India (known as the jewel of the Empire) and forced the Chinese to cede territory and partake in a trade in opiates that did not benefit China. Not to speak of their land grabbing in north America and Australasia and the wealth that they took from those places for their own benefit.

Exactly. This is why India eventually rose up against them in 1857 (the Indian Rebellion) and China tried to force them out during the boxer rebellion in the 1800s:

The Boxer Rebellion, Boxer Uprising or Yihetuan Movement was a violent anti-foreigner movement which took place in China between 1899 and 1901. It was initiated by the Righteous Harmony Society and was motivated by proto-nationalist sentiments and opposition to foreign imperialism and Christian missions. The Great Powers intervened and defeated the Boxer Rebellion, in a humiliation for China

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Boxer_Rebellion

Everywhere they have gone in the world they have looted using violence and divide and rule tactics and yet you hear africans like EBK2 full of praise for them.

EBK2: @Tenso77: my point is that we shouldn't get mad when other countries are trying to protect their economies by doing what they think is right for them, considering we have the opportunity to do so for our own country. We may not like it but British politicians of all political divides care more about what the British people think than what Nigerians think and that's the way it should be. Nigerian politicians should do the same for Nigerians even when outsiders don't like it. They only come up with retaliatory and reactionary immigration policies. If you consider the ways nigerian politicians and nigerian embassies overseas treat Nigerians, you will realise the scale if rot in d system. Most if them care about their pockets than they care about you lot.
@ cap28 whats up with Nigeria since after colonialism. There are benefit British colonialism brought to Nigeria and I want you to consider for a moment countries that were colonised by the French, Germany and Portugese and those that were not colonised at all. America was under British colonialism and China was once under Japanese colonialism, so think about it. I think bringing Colonialism is just a cheap argument.
Can I say this and a lot of you will bash me for it: so many Nigerians that witnessed colonialism will prefer Nigeria of that era than the mess you have today. I love Nigeria and believe things will change but I am just putting sentiment aside and stating the facts.

To others that are abusing me: I wish you can have a meaningful debate. Refer to the same ignorance and illiteracy I mentioned earlier.

Let me correct you- we should get mad when the UK introduces racist immigration policies designed to keep us out of their countries because they are still in our own countries making billions of dollars in profit by way of their multinational corporations, arms dealers and economic policies which they impose on us via their handpicked puppets.

Everything that the UK has today they got through theft on an industrial scale. Cities like liverpool, Bristol and London were poverty stricken hellholes until their fortunes were transformed following their huge involvement in the transatlantic slave trade. many of the stately homes you find in the english countryside were built with the proceeds of money derived from the trade in african slave labour. Corporaations such as Lloyds of london reaped billions as a result of the wealth they made from insuring slave ships and their human cargo as is illustrated in this newspaper article:

Slave descendants sue Lloyd's for billions

Americans whose ancestors were taken from Africa in chains have hired a feared New York lawyer to seek compensation for the insurer's support of 'genocide', writes Conal Walsh

The Observer, Sunday 28 March 2004

Centuries after Africans were beaten, chained and transported in their millions across the Atlantic, Britain's role in the slave trade is set to resurface in sensational fashion in a New York courtroom.

Descendants of black American slaves are preparing a multi-billion dollar action against Lloyd's of London, the best-known name in world insurance, for allegedly financing the trading fleets that uprooted them from their homelands and condemned them to generations of slavery in the New World.

The dramatic claim, to be filed tomorrow, is the latest in which 'UK plc' is being forced to confront allegations of a murky past. In recent years a host of British companies have been sued for allegedly collaborating with South Africa's racist apartheid regime.

The claim against Lloyd's could prove far more damaging. Black leaders are using DNA technology to link themselves with recorded slave ships and have enlisted Edward Fagan, the feared New York lawyer who extracted huge Nazi gold settlements from German and Swiss companies, to lead the case.

Lloyd's is expected to deny it is liable for slavery, but news of the case will cause consternation within its gleaming steel-and-glass headquarters in the City of London, where the insurance giant is tipped to make profits of £1 billion this year.

The sharp-suited brokers and cutting-edge technology that now characterise Lloyd's are only the latest incarnation in a long and controversial history. It was founded by Edward Lloyd in a London coffee shop in 1688 to provide cover for merchants whose ships were regularly lost at sea. Just like today, it was the centre of the insurance and shipping world in the 1700s and early 1800s, when many shipowners were making vast fortunes by shipping slaves from Africa to America and Britain's colonies in the Caribbean.

Before slavery was abolished in the British Empire in the 1830s, and three decades later in the United States, more than 10 million people are thought to have been sold to slave traffickers at west African ports before being herded on to boats for the long voyage to America. The ships often stopped for supplies at Bristol, London or Liverpool. The slaves suffered severe mistreatment, malnutrition and overcrowding on the way, with around 20 percent dying at sea; on arrival in America, those who had survived the journey were permanently separated from their families and friends and sold.

http://www.theguardian.com/money/2004/mar/28/insurance.usnews

EBK2: @Tenso77: my point is that we shouldn't get mad when other countries are trying to protect their economies by doing what they think is right for them, considering we have the opportunity to do so for our own country. We may not like it but British politicians of all political divides care more about what the British people think than what Nigerians think and that's the way it should be. Nigerian politicians should do the same for Nigerians even when outsiders don't like it. They only come up with retaliatory and reactionary immigration policies. If you consider the ways nigerian politicians and nigerian embassies overseas treat Nigerians, you will realise the scale if rot in d system. Most if them care about their pockets than they care about you lot.
@ cap28 whats up with Nigeria since after colonialism. There are benefit British colonialism brought to Nigeria and I want you to consider for a moment countries that were colonised by the French, Germany and Portugese and those that were not colonised at all. America was under British colonialism and China was once under Japanese colonialism, so think about it. I think bringing Colonialism is just a cheap argument.
Can I say this and a lot of you will bash me for it: so many Nigerians that witnessed colonialism will prefer Nigeria of that era than the mess you have today. I love Nigeria and believe things will change but I am just putting sentiment aside and stating the facts.

To others that are abusing me: I wish you can have a meaningful debate. Refer to the same ignorance and illiteracy I mentioned earlier.

can you highlight the benefits that the british brought to nigeria?
what benefits did france, germany and portugal bring to their african colonies?

America is run by the descendants of europeans and therefore the british allowed it to prosper because it regarded the american settlers as their own people.

this has not been the case with africans that have succeeed in emancipating themselves from their former slave/colonial masters - take the case of Haiti - Haitians are former african slaves who succeeded in defeating france, spain and britain in a 12 year war, how come they were not allowed to grow and prosper?

Also all former african colonies remain firmly under the economic and political control of europe

China as a whole was not colonised by japan, Manchuria which is a province of China was occupied by the Japanese in 1931 but the Chinese defeated the Japanese and regained control over it in 1945.

To say to an african that talking about colonialism is a cheap argument is like saying to a Jew talking about the jewish holocaust is a cheap argument.

After almost 70 years jews continue to talk about the massacre of 6 million jews by the nazis but you dont want to talk about the mass murder and brutalisation of millions of africans who were subjected to even worse treatment.

Funnily enough 10 million africans have been massacred in DRC in the last 15 years due to an ongoing war for control of mineral resources and nobody wants to talk about that. did you know that britain, israel, the united states are the biggest suppliers of arms to militia groups that cause mayhem all over africa?

@ Cap 28,
No doubt there are ills with slavery and colonialism but we are no longer in colonial or slave era and stroking such sentiment as a reason why Britain is ahead of Nigeria is just a defeatist mentality and not something i will agree with. We are no longer under colonialism and slavery so using them as excuse doesnt make sense. It is like a guy that is not doing well in life using his poor family background as an excuse. America gained their independence from Britain just over 200 years ago (Nigeria 50 years ago), but the fact that US is a greater power than even Britain that colonised it means that you are on the wrong side of the arguement.
Look at it this way: A small island with 60million people was pointing guns on a big and vast country with 170m people from 1861 to 1960 (much like Davis beating Goloaith and Goloaith complaining), much like Japan-China affair, and 50 years after that robbery incident, you are still moaning about how that robbary is keeping you back. No need to moan, you just need to grow up and join the global race with the right leadership and culture. China is no longer complaining about Japanese colonialism, is it?
The fact is that poor leadership (leaders only interested i their pockets and no heart for public service and how to leave lasting legacies, no interest in solving social problems etc etc) and wrong culture/attitude (Ethnic and tribal sentiment, not obeying laws and order, no respect and care for women/children/young and future generation, no respect for human life) - without sorting these two root cause of Nigerian problems, generations to come (doesnt matter how much money you personally make and leave behind for them) will still be in the kind of mess people are in Nigeria today.
We just need to be objective about things. Britain is for the British people, if they want high risk immigrants to deposit £3k before coming to their country, they are practically saying that if we issue you visa under some terms, you better comply with those terms else it will cause you money. Nigerians dont have the culture of comlying to terms they agreed to (thats why Nigeria is a high risk country in the first place) and that is why lots of people have wrongly understood it in their minds that you pay £3k to visit Britain. No you dont pay £3k to visit Britain; you pay a bond which you get back after your visit.
If the other way round had been the case (ie Nigeria asking British Immigrants to pay £3k bond), most British visitors will still pay that money and comply to their visa terms but the problem will be with Nigerian Immigration Service doing their part (ie refunding that money). You as well as anyone reading this know i am stating the fact. You just need to travel a little bit around the world and come back to Nigeria to realise how urgently things need to change. Messing around with people's lives and destiny appears to be what our leaders are bent on delivering. I have never seen a country (and I have been to many countries) without a plan for its youth. I can go on and on but taking 4 productive months out of the lives of your youths/future generations is a dent on the moral psychic of Nigerian leaders and it comes down to the two things i mentioned above (leadership and culture). Any country where the government breaches agreement (Agreement made with its internal e.g ASUU and external stakeholders) with ease has no future and there is a dotted line between this and why Nigeria is a 'high risk' country - Government and its people not respecting agreement. If you are a constant contract breacher, no one will like to deal with you. That's just the way the world works today.

Back to £3k issue: The reason why Britain dropped this policy is not because of the ranting from Nigerians and other countries affected, but because it will be difficult to implement and the cost of implementing it outweighs the benefit. The are coming up with other measures to achieve the same objective -reduce the number of illegal immigrant in in the UK. So watch this space There is nothing anyone can do about it. The leaders here believe that's what British people want and that's what British people will get in the end.

If this type of leadership is shown in Nigeria, where our leaders know what we want and they are bent on delivering them, Nigeria will be a better place, I will be happier, and surely, you and your lot will not be ranting!

@CAP28 can you highlight the benefits that the british brought to nigeria? A global language that gives you edge amongst your peers - English Language, Christianity, Agriculture, Introduced you to a concept called Democracy, Railway system, All scientific inventions etc (if you mismanage all these things what they left behind behind, dont blame them and we have mismanaged them –from education, railway system, democracy and I dare to say Christianity, to Agriculture, I can go on and on. As I said, speak to someone that lived under British colonialism and ask them if they prefer that era and now. The best set of leaders Nigeria has ever produced are those trained by British. Facts! Please don’t get me started. Were we right to gain independence from Britain? Yes, but by hindsight, if we had know we will mismanage post colonial Nigeria, many Nigeria will agree that it would have been better to leave it the way it was! Sorry to burst a lot of bubles in the forum but I am just stating it the way I feel.

what benefits did france, germany and portugal bring to their african colonies? - Not a lot. Just compare ex-british colonies and and the rest

America is run by the descendants of europeans and therefore the british allowed it to prosper because it regarded the american settlers as their own people. British and Europeans dont see eye to eye so i disagree with you on that point. Obama is not European!

this has not been the case with africans that have succeeed in emancipating themselves from their former slave/colonial masters - take the case of Haiti - Haitians are former african slaves who succeeded in defeating france, spain and britain in a 12 year war, how come they were not allowed to grow and prosper? Who did not allow them? Why do you blame non-growth of Haiti, Nigerian on other countries. Doesnt make sense. That's a defeatist mentality. You are the only one that can prevent yourself from growing.

Also all former african colonies remain firmly under the economic and political control of europe - No they dont. They dont elect your leaders, they dont control your central bank and other political, economic as well as social institutions. What are you even talking about. Europe doesn’t make you rig elections, loot your treasury, refuse to build roads, schools, hospitals, refinery, breach contract. Common! you are on the wrong side of the argument. Even if they do, it is your fault that they do.

China as a whole was not colonised by japan, Manchuria which is a province of China was occupied by the Japanese in 1931 but the Chinese defeated the Japanese and regained control over it in 1945. - I don’t agree with your submission. China was colonised and controlled by Japan, but even at that the part of China that was colonised by Japan is growing

To say to an african that talking about colonialism is a cheap argument is like saying to a Jew talking about the jewish holocaust is a cheap argument. You can’t compare Israel to Nigeria. Nigeria is older than modern Israel and Holocaust has not prevented the tiny jewish nation from being one of the greatest nations on earth. So, I am afraid you are wrong on this one again!!

After almost 70 years jews continue to talk about the massacre of 6 million jews by the nazis but you dont want to talk about the mass murder and brutalisation of millions of africans who were subjected to even worse treatment. Same point as above

Funnily enough 10 million africans have been massacred in DRC in the last 15 years due to an ongoing war for control of mineral resources and nobody wants to talk about that. did you know that britain, israel, the united states are the biggest suppliers of arms to militia groups that cause mayhem all over africa? I have been to DRC many times. It is Congolese killing Congolese, so don’t blame Europe, Israel or US. DRC just has very weak leaders that are only interested in their pocket and social standing.
If they supply you arms, that’s because you are buying them and they want to create jobs for their people and achieve other national objectives. You can achieve your national objective if you have the political will to do the right thing for your people.

It is a cheap argument resulting from a defeatist mindset to attribute tribal war in your country to US, UK, Israeli arms supply.
Will you blame Nigerian_Biafran war, Rwandan ethnic war, Sierra war etc to US, UK, Israeli arms supply. Remember for arms (like every product), someone buys when someone sells.
You cant continue to blame others for your problem.

The two fundamental problems African countries (Nigeria being chief amongst them) are poor leadership and culture as I have mentioned before.

EBK2: @ Cap 28,
No doubt there are ills with slavery and colonialism but we are no longer in colonial or slave era and stroking such sentiment as a reason why Britain is ahead of Nigeria is just a defeatist mentality and not something i will agree with. We are no longer under colonialism and slavery so using them as excuse doesnt make sense. It is like a guy that is not doing well in life using his poor family background as an excuse. America gained their independence from Britain just over 200 years ago (Nigeria 50 years ago), but the fact that US is a greater power than even Britain that colonised it means that you are on the wrong side of the arguement.
Look at it this way: A small island with 60million people was pointing guns on a big and vast country with 170m people from 1861 to 1960 (much like Davis beating Goloaith and Goloaith complaining), much like Japan-China affair, and 50 years after that robbery incident, you are still moaning about how that robbary is keeping you back. No need to moan, you just need to grow up and join the global race with the right leadership and culture. China is no longer complaining about Japanese colonialism, is it?
The fact is that poor leadership (leaders only interested i their pockets and no heart for public service and how to leave lasting legacies, no interest in solving social problems etc etc) and wrong culture/attitude (Ethnic and tribal sentiment, not obeying laws and order, no respect and care for women/children/young and future generation, no respect for human life) - without sorting these two root cause of Nigerian problems, generations to come (doesnt matter how much money you personally make and leave behind for them) will still be in the kind of mess people are in Nigeria today.
We just need to be objective about things. Britain is for the British people, if they want high risk immigrants to deposit £3k before coming to their country, they are practically saying that if we issue you visa under some terms, you better comply with those terms else it will cause you money. Nigerians dont have the culture of comlying to terms they agreed to (thats why Nigeria is a high risk country in the first place) and that is why lots of people have wrongly understood it in their minds that you pay £3k to visit Britain. No you dont pay £3k to visit Britain; you pay a bond which you get back after your visit.
If the other way round had been the case (ie Nigeria asking British Immigrants to pay £3k bond), most British visitors will still pay that money and comply to their visa terms but the problem will be with Nigerian Immigration Service doing their part (ie refunding that money). You as well as anyone reading this know i am stating the fact. You just need to travel a little bit around the world and come back to Nigeria to realise how urgently things need to change. Messing around with people's lives and destiny appears to be what our leaders are bent on delivering. I have never seen a country (and I have been to many countries) without a plan for its youth. I can go on and on but taking 4 productive months out of the lives of your youths/future generations is a dent on the moral psychic of Nigerian leaders and it comes down to the two things i mentioned above (leadership and culture). Any country where the government breaches agreement (Agreement made with its internal e.g ASUU and external stakeholders) with ease has no future and there is a dotted line between this and why Nigeria is a 'high risk' country - Government and its people not respecting agreement. If you are a constant contract breacher, no one will like to deal with you. That's just the way the world works today.

Back to £3k issue: The reason why Britain dropped this policy is not because of the ranting from Nigerians and other countries affected, but because it will be difficult to implement and the cost of implementing it outweighs the benefit. The are coming up with other measures to achieve the same objective -reduce the number of illegal immigrant in in the UK. So watch this space There is nothing anyone can do about it. The leaders here believe that's what British people want and that's what British people will get in the end.

If this type of leadership is shown in Nigeria, where our leaders know what we want and they are bent on delivering them, Nigeria will be a better place, I will be happier, and surely, you and your lot will not be ranting!

ARe you trying to say that a people who lost over 100 million able bodied men, women and children and who subsequently had their entire continent invaded and occupied by europeans should be expected to compete on an equal footing with the very people who stole from them?

Are you aware that europe and america's industrial revolution would not have happened had it not been for their involvment in the transatlantic slave trade.

The after effects of slavery are still being felt - we are talking about countries that had a 400 year headstart over us and who STILL continue to expoloit us. Have you heard of neo colonialism?

Do you know anything about the international financial institutions and how they keep africa poor using debt ?

how about foreign sponsored coups - these are things that are still happening

do you seriously think europe and america want you to become a competitor with them? where will they get their cheap labour and cheap raw materials if you beocme masters of your own destiny.

If africa had been economically, militarily and politically independent do you think europe and america would have become the industrial powers that they are today?

please stop using america and britain as examples of the relationship between colonisers and the colonised - the american settlers were descendants of their former colonial masters therefore the relationship was totally different. it was more of a brotherly relationship between siblings unlike that between colonial africans and their european slave masters. This is demonstrated in the role that the british have continued to play in the united states, also many british people were allowed to immigrate to the united states in the early part of the 20th century in order to build a white nation, many people of irish, scottish and english origin were offered land and job opportunities in the newly created north america, something that was not open to non white people and definitely unavailable to africans.

Yes, we were defeated by the british but the fact remains that despite efforts to free ourselves from our oppressors we have remaiend in the same position.

majority ofthe time the leaders that we have been lumbered with were not chosen by us and the ones that we have chosen have been removed from power by these same western powers.

britain can not only be for the british people if everything it has it stole from other countries, you cant go to another country and cause poverty, wars and mayhem and expect the victims of those countries not to go to where the loot has been appropriated to.

If britain stayed out of nigeria's affairs there would have been no reason for nigeria to be lumbered with corrupt leadership and western economic policies that have destroyed nigeria's economy, in other words all the problems that we are currently suffering today in nigeria would not have occurred as we would have been allowed to operate as a sovereign nation just like china or any other non western coutnry that controls its own affairs

EBK2: @CAP28 can you highlight the benefits that the british brought to nigeria? A global language that gives you edge amongst your peers - English Language, Christianity, Agriculture, Introduced you to a concept called Democracy, Railway system, All scientific inventions etc (if you mismanage all these things what they left behind behind, dont blame them and we have mismanaged them –from education, railway system, democracy and I dare to say Christianity, to Agriculture, I can go on and on. As I said, speak to someone that lived under British colonialism and ask them if they prefer that era and now. The best set of leaders Nigeria has ever produced are those trained by British. Facts! Please don’t get me started. Were we right to gain independence from Britain? Yes, but by hindsight, if we had know we will mismanage post colonial Nigeria, many Nigeria will agree that it would have been better to leave it the way it was! Sorry to burst a lot of bubles in the forum but I am just stating it the way I feel.
what benefits did france, germany and portugal bring to their african colonies? - Not a lot. Just compare ex-british colonies and and the rest

Fine they brought a lot of excellent things and I will never contradict that very salient fact. However you just need to stop having a go at government officials. We are surely getting there.
To be honest apart from the good things the English colonial legacy bequeathed upon Nigeria and Nigerians , I have to say that their economic system then was based mainly on economic exploitation (via plantation agriculture and mining) not DEVELOPMENT and their socio-political sytem was based on military-colonial administration and political oppression, NOT SETTLEMENT(as in southern Africa)and certainly not democracy.
So it is pure nonsense for any disgruntled element in Nigeria or in the diaspora to wish the British had stayed on in Nigeria after 1960.

What is Nigeria doing today with the able bodied men that are still alive and perhaps on strike and unemployed? Forget about competing with Europe. What about Middle Easten countries. Forget about competing with anyone, what about doing the right things for your people and not lining up your pocket. Fella, you cant possibly use colonialism and slavery as excuse. That is so out of date…

Industial revolution is today taking place in some countries. Are they using slaves?


I have heard about neo-colonialism. It is a mere myth. Colonialism and slavery have since ended. Why do you even allow yourself to be decolonized in the first place.
I know a lot about international financial institution (I work with one of them). Did they force you to borrow? Where is the money that was borrowed? You leaders borrowed and pocketed them. Recently, these debts were written off under Obasanjo? What has happened since then? Your government started borrowing again. What about internal Naira denominated debts. Debts are never forced on anyone.

When was the last foreign sponsored coup in Nigeria? What has changed since after military rule in Nigeria?

It is not up to Europe and America whether Nigeria become a comptetitive force. It is up to you and your leaders. Nigeria is a master of its own destny, not America
If africa had been economically, militarily and politically independent do you think europe and america would have become the industrial powers that they are today? Yes I think! The two are mutually exclusive!!

Your argument tends to suggest that every white man is the same and they are all against black people. You are dead wrong.

Yes, we were defeated by the british but the fact remains that despite efforts to free ourselves from our oppressors we have remaiend in the same position. You are wrong again: If you look at all the problems Nigeria has today, you cant link them with Colonialism. Stop blaming others for your problems which you know you can solve. The cultural attitudinal problem in Nigeria is not a result of colonialism. The two fundamental problems I highlighted earlier did not result from colonialism.

Was Jonathan, Yardua, Obasanjo, the senators, governors, local government chairmen and members of the civil service chosen by Britain or America?
The very people that Britain apply £3k policy to are not in war or natural disaster. If anything, Britain has given more help than any genuine countries and it their citizens ravaged by civil wars, brought their leader to justice and prosecuted corrupt foreign leader whose local judiciary couldn’t help. Do you know that Britain has fought Nigerian corruption more than Nigerian governments

Yes Britain is for British people, that’s why you need a visa to come here. Britain hasn’t caused war in Nigeria, has it?

Nigeria is a sovereign nation and you cant possibly say Britain is behind your problems. They just have an embassy in Abuja and Lagos. They don’t own your political and other institutions. Provide a check list of Nigeria’s problems and let me know which one Britain or US is causing today

So if you become a Nigerian president tomorrow, these are the views that will guide your policy. SMH

A man has failed in leadership when he can’t face his problems to solve them because his energy is spent blaming others.

Sit back and take an inventory of all the political, social, and economic challenges facing Nigeria today. We are capable of solving most of them without external help, but it requires strong leadership and cultural change.

Let me remind you of some:
Government can build refinery, good schools, roads, railways, hospitals, airports, fee and fair election, fight corruption (it beggars belief that Farouk the lawmaker is still a free man despite being caught packing bribe in his caps, where are the subsidy thieves, the thieving governors EFCC started chasing under Ribadu etc), what about making laws and enforcing and obeying them, taking care of the vulnerable in the society.
I can go on and on.
These are the fundamental things that build a country and you cant blame other countries if you refuse to do them. but enriching your pockets and doing these things don’t go together.
I hope you don’t mind if I end this debate with you. But I cant end without asking you to put away defeatist mentality. It will not get you anywhere. Colonialism and slavery have since ended and it is time to compete and win in the global race. Only nations and individuals that don’t get their act together will lose and it seems you may be part of them unless you quit giving your frivolous excuses.
Thanks

^^^
EBK TWO
You are spending a lot of time on this CAP woman whom I suspect is an extreme left-wing academic somewhere. However her views are certainly not mainstream which you should know. Mainly about outlandish conspiracy theories and vituperations about past colonial misdeeds, which change nothing whatsoever. Why then belabour the point?
Again I ask you what is YOUR OWN point?

@ Tensor777
If you dont hold your public office holders accountable, what type of democracy are you interested in unless you are a beneficiary of their loots. Again, cultural problem. Why would you or a public officer take offence or take it personal when the very people that you serve criticise you. They are your employers. You are not the master. They are. it is in your interest as well as yours to always be on their case about their policies that affect you. You pay their wages so you are entitled to have a go at their policies. I am a fan of respecting the office of a politician but it doesnt consitute disrespect when you questions their policies. But if you dont have the attitude of a public servant, you will think you are the master. Most Nigerian leaders dont do what Nigerians want. They do what they (policians) want or what they think Nigerians want, and the fact is that Nigerians dont have in their culture to hold them to account because of the sort of attitude you have demostrated in your piece above. Your politicians have messed up your (not your personally, but i mean Nigerians) minds through force and intimidation.
The policies or lack of it of your policy makers affect your everyday life.
No one is wishing that Nigeria never to have independence. Of course every nation wants to be independent and it absolutly right to have that aspiration as a nation. But if you awake our independence heros from their grave to the modern day Nigeria, they will wishe they never did what they did. if you take an invetory of our achievement since after independence, you wil acknowledge that in real terms, we havent made any progress. One step fwd, two steps backwards. Am am suggesting that we should never have got our independence from Britail? You have missed the point of my piece if you think i am suggesting that. I was putting into context of Nigeria of today.
You have to acknowdge that post independence Nigeria is now a mess and it is not getting better.
Give me 10 things that have changed for the better since after the independence or even since after democracy.
Problem is an individual does very well for himself by making money here and there and then that individual will think things are getting better while supporing lots of people under his pyramid. Meanwhile the bigger picture is still bleak.

Dont think i am a disgruntled diasporan, no i am not and that is not even the point. Lets debate on facts, not personalities or sentiments. Am not interested in that.

@Tensor777, i have stated my point before but will state it again for you:

Re £3k bond, we should not be mad at other countries that promogate policies that suite their national interest. Just because our leaders in Nigeria dont care about the interest of Nigerian doesnt mean we should lose site of the fact that there are countries whose leader care about the interests of their people.
90% of policies of british government are for the interest of the British people and that's the way it should be

Idowuogbo:
Uncle Kunlikuli

For your mind you don yab me abi

cap28:
Comparing Nigeria to a country that built its wealth on the enslavement of Africans of and the theft of Africa's resources is like comparing a victim of armed robbery with an armed robber snd pointing out how much richer and successful the armed robber is. Reading your type of posts makes me realise how much the nigerian educational system has failed

Stop being an incurable hypocrite . . . if Britain was built on the enslavement of Africans then I put it to you that Nigeria is being built off the vast resources of the Niger Delta

EBK TWO.

I guess where you are coming from with your seemingly disjointed arguments and bitter recriminations towards federal government officials.

However it is simply not possible to even begin to implement for example the Scandinavian model in a developing economy country like Nigeria.

Better grow the economy FIRST through foreign direct investment and investment in human capital through training and education BEFORE we start talking about high taxation AND redistribution of wealth through universal welfare sytems.

However it is certainly in the Federal Government's interest for there to be a scrapping of this £3000 bond as it would impede the mobility of skilled labour. To even insinuate that the FGN is acting against the national interest by campaigning for its abolition is again PURE NONSENSE.

@Tensor777.
1. If you think my arguement is disjointed, than perhaps you have no end 2 end view of this debate, and this is what happens when people don’t debate objectively.
2. Pointing out the fact that public service attitude of out politicans in general (not just federal officials) is not a recrimination against them. Trying to hold puble servants accountable for their actions or non-actions is a tenet of democracy. Are you suggesting otherwise. This may well be partly the reason why they don’t care or give a damn about what you think.

3. Forget about Scandinavian model or any model. I never suggested that. You have to get the basic right before talking about a mere academic model.

4. Government can build refinery, good schools, roads, railways, hospitals, airports, fee and fair election, fight corruption (it beggars belief that Farouk the lawmaker is still a free man despite being caught packing bribe in his caps, where are the subsidy thieves, the thieving governors EFCC started chasing under Ribadu etc), what about making laws and enforcing and obeying them, taking care of the vulnerable in the society.
I can go on and on. These are not model. They are just the basic right things a government should do.
5. I am not talking about high taxation, wealth distribution or the likes here and just to let you know, you can never get any meaningful FDI unless you get the number 4 above resolved.
6. What mobility of labour are you talking about? Britain doesn’t want or need Nigerian labour force. British companies or government don’t go looking for Nigerian workers to come and work in Britain. Where there are labour shortages, they go overseas to fill the gap but there aren’t shortages now and they are saying, they don’t want you, hence the £3k and tighter immigration policies. The government here doesn’t want foreigners being issued holiday visa and once they arrive, they disappear to do all sort of things. You may not like it as a foreigner, but stay in your country if you don’t like it. That’s the message they are sending across. I will like Nigeria to do the same in areas where we have competitive advantage over other nations. I can list many areas where we can implement such policies for interest of Nigerian people (but this forum will not allow me)
I think it is even in the interest of federal government that the £3k policy holds. We need more Nigerians to stay in Nigeria and spend their money in Nigeria rather than trotting off overseas to spend it. Every government will like more people to spend money within its shores. But the federal government jumped into the bandwagon to condemn it because of the sentiments it generates. Have you thought about this: if half of Nigerians that will come to Britain decide to stay put in Nigeria (in protest to the £3k policy), that will benefit Nigerian economy.
Am I a fan of all policies of British government? No. But the leaders are trying to deliver what the people want and I commend them for that. You leaders should just listen to you and do the same.

EBK2: @Tenso77: my point is that we shouldn't get mad when other countries are trying to protect their economies by doing what they think is right for them, considering we have the opportunity to do so for our own country. We may not like it but British politicians of all political divides care more about what the British people think than what Nigerians think and that's the way it should be. Nigerian politicians should do the same for Nigerians even when outsiders don't like it. They only come up with retaliatory and reactionary immigration policies. If you consider the ways nigerian politicians and nigerian embassies overseas treat Nigerians, you will realise the scale if rot in d system. Most if them care about their pockets than they care about you lot.
@ cap28 whats up with Nigeria since after colonialism. There are benefit British colonialism brought to Nigeria and I want you to consider for a moment countries that were colonised by the French, Germany and Portugese and those that were not colonised at all. America was under British colonialism and China was once under Japanese colonialism, so think about it. I think bringing Colonialism is just a cheap argument.
Can I say this and a lot of you will bash me for it: so many Nigerians that witnessed colonialism will prefer Nigeria of that era than the mess you have today. I love Nigeria and believe things will change but I am just putting sentiment aside and stating the facts.

To others that are abusing me: I wish you can have a meaningful debate. Refer to the same ignorance and illiteracy I mentioned earlier.

i agree 100 percent with your views i must confess.

cap28:
Comparing Nigeria to a country that built its wealth on the enslavement of Africans of and the theft of Africa's resources is like comparing a victim of armed robbery with an armed robber snd pointing out how much richer and successful the armed robber is. Reading your type of posts makes me realise how much the nigerian educational system has failed

You've said it all. Nigerian educational system is in a big mess. Our history and national knowledge are not passed to the new generation hence, many of them simply blame their leaders without knowing the real cause of their problem. Nigeria is still under a political and economic control of Britain, thats a fact. An average Nigerian only care about money thats all, political matters that affect their everyday life is less of a concern.

Kudos to your knowledge on our history, admirable.

@ Phantom,
I really believe our young people should get informed, get educated and take the future in our hand putting all sentiment aside while debating this real issues that affect our future as a nation.
The greatest question facing Nigeria today is what does the future hold for us as young Nigerians?

EBK2: @ Phantom,
I really believe our young people should get informed, get educated and take the future in our hand putting all sentiment aside while debating this real issues that affect our future as a nation.
The greatest question facing Nigeria today is what does the future hold for us as young Nigerians?

U are on a road to nowhere if you keep arguing with CAP28. A quick glance through his post history would give u an insight into what sort of individual he is.

He believes the " WHITE MAN" is the devil and is to be blamed for the lack of progress in his life.

@ Chic2Pimp.
Hahahaha @ Cap28. I better stop wasting my time then. There are also white people around the globe thinking black people are their problems. Same mentality. I hope this doesnt apply to people's personal lives.
In UK today, you have a lot of black people mainly from Carribean still moaning about slavery and all. Any bad experience they have, their mind will tell them 'thats because i am black' bla bla. No doubt slavery took place, it is evil and it can be hurtful to think about it. But it is over. Same as colonialism. Dwelling on it and thinking it is the reason why you can't make progress as a nation or individual is an just not the right way to approach life in the 21st century. Time has changed and the gloabl race has begun for the nations. A country that doesnt get its act together will be left behind, doesnt matter the population or how much natural resources you the country has got!

Even within Nigeria, there are people that believe they are disadvantaged because they are from one tribe or the other. Thats nonsense, just break the ethnic barries and odds and be the best you can be. Same applies to nations and countries. Anyone that has ever had a stint in National Develpmental exercise will tell you the only thing capable of stoping any nation is its internal weaknesses, not external forces. Nigeria can be the greatest country in Africa and a regional super power like US is to the Americas. But it takes visionary leadership and cultural change to do so, not just how much money you make as a politician.