omar22:

Common if you know anything about football injuries, you will know that if you have ruptured your anterior cruciate ligament in the knee (TWICE) your career is almost over!

Ask Michael Owen or Owen Hargreaves

I didn't know his career was almost over when he was playing for madrid.And if you know anything about football,you will know that a player can NEVER be judged by his past mistakes and shortcomings,but also by the great games he played and his contributions.

striker9: Your last point is the reason I said Mikel has been a better player for national team than Yaya.

Because of the Nations cup?

What bugs me is that Mikel has been part of the National team that has flopped year in year out, even failed to qualify for a tournament, Keshi decided to bring in fresh and hungrier players and won something and guess what? the credit goes to Mikel? Really

What happened when the team stinked at previous tournaments

Wes Brown :-
2003/2004:-15 starts
2004/2005:-18 starts
2005/2006:-17 starts
2006/2007:-17 starts
2007/2008:-34 starts
2008/2009:-6 starts
2010/2011:-4 starts
2011/2012:-0
He started above 50% of man-U's games per season only ONCE in the 9 YEARS of his Man-U career.

striker9: Is Essien still injured?NO,was he injured when he had to go on loan?NO. Essien has got speed,short accuracy ,kindly ask them why his still on the bench.

You actually described the old Essien, not the new one
Essien got 2 career threatening injuries in quick succession, he was sent on loan to see if he can recapture his old form, unfortunately he didn't.

striker9: I didn't know his career was almost over when he was playing for madrid.And if you know anything about football,you will know that a player can NEVER be judged by his past mistakes and shortcomings,but also by the great games he played and his contributions.

Am not judging a player by his mistakes, judging by his injury record... La Liga is not as intense as the Premier League and Essien went to Madrid as a cover for Xabi and the German midfielder when Diarra was sold. Even Jose didnt trust him even to play in the midfield he had to play him wide or at rightback as cover to the former Liverpool defender

omar22:

You are still ignoring stats and facts about the 2011 season

1 SEASON OUT OF HOW MANY ??.
The fact about dat season ??
OKAY here:-
AVB didnt fancy Mikel,he kept mikel on d bench for soooo long.He hardly even brought in mikel 4rm d bench.
But what happened ??.Chelsea had their worst ever run of results during dat period.Chelsea was struggling in Mid-table.
AVB was sacked in feb or march.
Di matteo was appointed.
Di matteo re-installed Mikel back into d Midfield as an Undisputed starter.And what happened ??
Chelsea won their 1st ever Champions league and won d FA cup.The season ended as one of chelsea's best ever season.
That was the FACT about dat season !.SIMPLE.

omar22:

Am not judging a player by his mistakes, judging by his injury record... La Liga is not as intense and the Premier League and Essien went to Madrid as a cover for Xabi and the German midfielder when Diarra was sold. Even Jose didnt trust him even to play in the midfield he had to play him wide.

I meant Mikel,you have never said anything positive about him,you kept talking about the Juve match,how he deleted his twitter account etc.This is not the only thread you will say such about him,you have always down talked him anywhere is name is being mentioned on nairaland.Not cool bro.

striker9: Your last point is the reason I said Mikel has been a better player for national team than Yaya.

Yes I agree Mikel has been a better player for country than Yaya. Same way Diego Forlan has been a better player for country than Messi. Same way Ozil is a better player for country than Frank Ribery.

elektra80:

Yes I agree Mikel has been a better player for country than Yaya. Same way Diego Forlan has been a better player for country than Messi. Same way Ozil is a better player for country than Frank Ribery.

That's my point!

striker9: I meant Mikel,you have never said anything positive about him,you kept talking about the Juve match,how he deleted his twitter account etc.This is not the only thread you will say such about him,you have always down talked him anywhere is name is being mentioned on nairaland.Not cool bro.

Look am a Chelsea and I do defend Mikel as much as I could, even at work or when I get the chance to watch the game live when fans grumble about Mikel slowing the tempo down, but I could remember when they brought in the Spanish kid Romeu in 2011 or tried young Josh, but Mikel still held his position, but my Argument here is that Mikel since 2006 should have grown or developed into a super star thats what makes me angry, I could remember when we had Babayaro, chelsea brought in so many LB but Babayaro still kept his spot until old age and injury caught up with him Babayaro stepped up his game.

This was the same with King Kanu who was happy to sit on the bench and collect money, compared to Jay Jay who put Bolton on the map.

Ok the Juve stuff was used to fight my corner in an argument, the Juve game, Lampard didnt helped him because lampard was ment to play alongside Mikel but Lampard charged forward leaving Mikel exposed to a counter attack

As much as I like the guy he is not better than Yaya Toure in any form, Yes Mikel might have a better tournament than Yaya but over the whole of 2013 my honest opinion Yaya is head and shoulders better than any African player in the world

Real players take risks to show the manager and fans what they can do. David Luis has forced people to realize his attacking talents. Yes Mourinho is benching him now, maybe he doesn't play to instruction right now but there are top clubs out there that are waiting to pounce on him. He forrced his way into taking free kicks which yielded reward. Drogba also forced himself to taking free kicks even when Lampard was on the field and we all know what happened. Yaya Toure was not the first choice free kick taker at Man City, but he forced himself into taking free kicks and now he is their first choice free kick taker.

What is my point here, top players take risks to show what they can do, while squad players just play to instruction, like 'I will do whatever the coach asks me to do'. Mikel had lots of attacking potentials before he joined chelsea, he was second to Messi in the Youth championship. Maybe he got scared of playing at the biggest stage, or he was scared of taking risks, he ended up being a squad player. I believe he has lots of potential in him, what I'm not so sure of is if he still have them after being in this position for so many years.

omar22:

Look am a Chelsea and I do defend Mikel as much as I could, even at work or when I get the chance to watch the game live when fans grumble about Mikel slowing the tempo down, but I could remember when they brought in the Spanish kid Romeu in 2011 or tried young Josh, but Mikel still held his position, but my Argument here is that Mikel since 2006 should have grown or developed into a super star thats what makes me angry, I could remember when we had Babayaro, chelsea brought in so many LB but Babayaro still kept his spot until old age and injury caught up with him Babayaro stepped up his game.

This was the same with King Kanu who was happy to sit on the bench and collect money, compared to Jay Jay who put Bolton on the map.

As much as I like the guy he is not better than Yaya Toure in any form, Yes Mikel might have a better tournament than Yaya but over the whole of 2013 my honest opinion Yaya is head and shoulders better than any African player in the world

Everyone admits Yaya is better,Nigeria beating Ivory coast and later winning the trophy was an huge blow to Yaya,considering the fact that Mikel did well in the tourney,and also won a trophy with chelsea can't be overlooked by Yaya's brilliant performance for club side.

Micheal Carrick vs Mikel
Comparison of no. Of games STARTED in d PL per-season for Man-U and chelsea respectively 4rm 2007:-
2007/2008:-
Mikel=22 starts/Carrick=23 starts
2008/2009 :-
Mikel=33 starts/Carrick=24 starts
2009/2010 :-
Mikel=21 starts/Carrick=21 starts
2010/2011:-
Mikel=28 starts/Carrick=23 starts
2011/2012:-
Mikel=15 starts/Carrick=26 starts
2012/2013:-
Mikel=20 starts/Carrick=34 starts.

Looking very well at these anybody that says Mikel HAS ALWAYS BEEN a squad player all through his chelsea career should also agree the same for carrick.
Man-U is a big club.
Chelsea is also a big club.
Man-U players suffer 4rm injury.
Chelsea players suffer 4rm injury.

elektra80: Real players take risks to show the manager and fans what they can do. David Luis has forced people to realize his attacking talents. Yes Mourinho is benching him now, maybe he doesn't play to instruction right now but there are top clubs out there that are waiting to pounce on him. He forrced his way into taking free kicks which yielded reward. Drogba also forced himself to taking free kicks even when Lampard was on the field and we all know what happened. Yaya Toure was not the first choice free kick taker at Man City, but he forced himself into taking free kicks and now he is their first choice free kick taker.

What is my point here, top players take risks to show what they can do, while squad players just play to instruction, like 'I will do whatever the coach asks me to do'. Mikel had lots of attacking potentials before he joined chelsea, he was second to Messi in the Youth championship. Maybe he got scared of playing at the biggest stage, or he was scared of taking risks, he ended up being a squad player. I believe he has lots of potential in him, what I'm not so sure of is if he still have them after being in this position for so many years.

You are on point,that's why I blame Mou,Mikel was young and was ready to play as instructed.He couldn't have dashed forward with the like of Lampard,Joe cole,Essien etc in the team,I guess he's got his own share of blame as well.Look at Alex Song,he hardly dash forward for barca compared to the beast I knew then in Arsenal.

naija noni: Micheal Carrick vs Mikel
Comparison of no. Of games STARTED in d PL per-season for Man-U and chelsea respectively 4rm 2007:-
2007/2008:-
Mikel=22 starts/Carrick=23 starts
2008/2009 :-
Mikel=33 starts/Carrick=24 starts
2009/2010 :-
Mikel=21 starts/Carrick=21 starts
2010/2011:-
Mikel=28 starts/Carrick=23 starts
2011/2012:-
Mikel=15 starts/Carrick=26 starts
2012/2013:-
Mikel=20 starts/Carrick=34 starts.

Looking very well at these anybody that says Mikel HAS ALWAYS BEEN a squad player all through his chelsea career should also agree the same for carrick.
Man-U is a big club.
Chelsea is also a big club.

And ur point is? I am a man UTD fan and Michael Carrick is a vital player for man utd, but he is not a world class player, neither is he a squad player. Man Utd and Chelsea are 2 different teams with different styles of play. And yes Man Utd has the worst midfield out of the top 5 clubs in the EPL. But the way they manage their midfielders is different from the way chelsea does theirs. In Man utd, carrick is vital,(not a wolrd class though), in chelsea, Mikel is a squad player (Also not a world class). Yaya will displace both carrick and Mikel if he goes to either teams.

naija noni: Micheal Carrick vs Mikel
Comparison of no. Of games STARTED in d PL per-season for Man-U and chelsea respectively 4rm 2007:-
2007/2008:-
Mikel=22 starts/Carrick=23 starts
2008/2009 :-
Mikel=33 starts/Carrick=24 starts
2009/2010 :-
Mikel=21 starts/Carrick=21 starts
2010/2011:-
Mikel=28 starts/Carrick=23 starts
2011/2012:-
Mikel=15 starts/Carrick=26 starts
2012/2013:-
Mikel=20 starts/Carrick=34 starts.

Looking very well at these anybody that says Mikel HAS ALWAYS BEEN a squad player all through his chelsea career should also agree the same for carrick.
Man-U is a big club.
Chelsea is also a big club.
Man-U players suffer 4rm injury.
Chelsea players suffer 4rm injury.

GBAM!GBAM!!GBAM!!!

elektra80:

And ur point is? I am a man UTD fan and Michael Carrick is a vital player for man utd, but he is not a world class player, neither is he a squad player. Man Utd and Chelsea are 2 different teams with different styles of play. And yes Man Utd has the worst midfield out of the top 5 clubs in the EPL. But the way they manage their midfielders is different from the way chelsea does theirs. In Man utd, carrick is vital,(not a wolrd class though), in chelsea, Mikel is a squad player (Also not a world class). Yaya will displace both carrick and Mikel if he goes to either teams.

.

CURRENTLY,YES !!At the moment Mikel is a squad player at chelsea,and so is Juan Mata,So is de bruyne and d likes.
Doesnt mean they are bad players.
My point is that Mikel hasnt been a squad player THROUGHOUT his career like some people say.
Mikel was a very vital player under some managers.
Chelsea has changed managers about 6 times since mikel came to chelsea.
But can that be said about Man-U ?
Different managers come with their different philosophies.
One managers salad,might be another manager's soured egg.
Dont know about yaya,But if a player like Carrick had been at chelsea with all the constant sacking and replacement of managers,u cannot be sure that he would have been a vital player under every of d managers.

naija noni: Micheal Carrick vs Mikel
Comparison of no. Of games STARTED in d PL per-season for Man-U and chelsea respectively 4rm 2007:-
2007/2008:-
Mikel=22 starts/Carrick=23 starts
2008/2009 :-
Mikel=33 starts/Carrick=24 starts
2009/2010 :-
Mikel=21 starts/Carrick=21 starts
2010/2011:-
Mikel=28 starts/Carrick=23 starts
2011/2012:-
Mikel=15 starts/Carrick=26 starts
2012/2013:-
Mikel=20 starts/Carrick=34 starts.

Looking very well at these anybody that says Mikel HAS ALWAYS BEEN a squad player all through his chelsea career should also agree the same for carrick.
Man-U is a big club.
Chelsea is also a big club.
Man-U players suffer 4rm injury.
Chelsea players suffer 4rm injury.

Na common if you say Michael Carrick is squad player for manchester united you will loose credibility on NL

Alex ferguson manages his players differently to other managers, Lampard played 160 PL games in a row without any break, suspension or rest, Fergie will not all that to happen, Fergie knows when to rest his players! Uptill 2009-10 Manchester United had Carrick, Giggs, Scholes, Anderson, Oshea and Fletcher and managed all of them and kept them fresh.

omar22:


Na common if you say Michael Carrick is squad player for manchester united you will loose credibility on NL

Alex ferguson manages his players differently to other managers, Lampard played 160 PL games in a row without any break, suspension or rest, Fergie will not all that to happen, Fergie knows when to rest his players! Uptill 2009-10 Manchester United had Carrick, Giggs, Scholes, Anderson, Oshea and Fletcher and managed all of them and kept them fresh.

I think his right about the coach Philosophy stuff,that's why players like Mata and David Luiz are bench warmers

naija noni: .

My point is that Mikel hasnt been a squad player THROUGHOUT his career like some people say.
Mikel was a very vital player under some managers.

Yeah when Essien left for Madrid or out injured. Mikel became an integral part of the team, but why was Luiz moved into the midfield?

But if a player like Carrick had been at chelsea with all the constant sacking and replacement of managers,u cannot be sure that he would have been a vital player under every of d managers

Carrick will keep his place, actually when Ranieri bought Lampard, it was Carrick Ramieri wanted but Lampard was wanted out after his uncle and dad was sacked by West Ham

striker9: I think his right about the coach Philosophy stuff,that's why players like Mata and David Luiz are bench warmers

Mourinho benched Mata because he feels Oscar offers more energy and work rate, Luiz is just a loose cannon who blows hot and cold.

Under Benithez Oscar is more likely to be benched for Moses because Moses is direct and powerful

omar22:

Mourinho benched Mata because he feels Oscar offers more energy and work rate, Luiz is just a loose cannon who blows hot and cold.

Under Benithez Oscar is more likely to be benched for Moses because Moses is direct and powerful

I will pick mata over oscar anyday anytime.There are some games energy wouldn't save you but brilliant magician like mata.

And when we say mikel has been outstanding THROUGHOUT this year 4 nigeria,some people look only at AFCON.AFCON matches werent d only matches dis year.
Confederations cup ??
Worldcup qualifiers ??.
They say nigeria have been doing well becos of TEAMWORK.
YES,but no matter d teamwork there must def be outstanding players.
Mikel didnt win the most valuable player at AFCON but he was given d Man-of-the-match award in most of our matches.
They could have as well given the Man-of-the-match awards to all d whole team becos of "TEAM WORK.
IMO nigeria's OUTSTANDING players dis year were:-Moses,Mikel and Emenike.
Moses and Emenike were absent for most times due to injury.
But mikel featured THROUGHOUT dis year and excellently,so he is definately NIGERIA'S MOST OUTSTANDING PLAYER this year.

Our U/17 recently won d worldcup.Their team-work was 10times better dan d super-eagles.
But definately there must always be outstanding player/players.And who were they ??.Iheanacho,Yahaya,Mohammed..

Spain won d worldcup by TEAMWORK,but who was d outstanding player ??
INIESTA

When we say Mikel has been outstanding 4 nigeria few of u dont agree and say its team-work lol.Some say nigerians are just bias to mikel.

Guess they havent read articles by various british/foreign journalists around d web about mikel's "outstanding" performance 4 nigeria dis year.Guess they are bias too.

omar22:





Carrick will keep his place, actually when Ranieri bought Lampard, it was Carrick Ramieri wanted but Lampard was wanted out after his uncle and dad was sacked by West Ham

And who told u that carrick would have gone ahead and be a vital player under every of d 6/7 managers dat came after??
You never can say what would have happened.
Lampard and carrick were never in d same class.
That lampard kept his place doesnt mean Carrick would have kept his place.Even benitez was benching lampard sometime last season dat d british media and fans criticized him 4 doing so.
Nobody can say what would have happened.

naija noni:
And who told u that carrick would have gone ahead and be a vital player under every of d 6/7 managers dat came after??
You never can say what would have happened.
Lampard and carrick were never in d same class.
That lampard kept his place doesnt mean Carrick would have kept his place.Even benitez was benching lampard sometime last season dat d british media and fans criticized him 4 doing so.
Nobody can say what would have happened.

Michael Carrick will still be a Chelsea because he has all the attributes thats keeping Mikel in the squad and he is more mobile than Mikel, he make more forward passes than Mikel.

omar22:

but why was Luiz moved into the midfield?

Note first:-Luiz was played in midfield ONLY 7 times in all competitions last season.Only thrice in PL matches,3 times in the europa league,Once in d Club worldcup.
Out of those 7 times,he patnered with Mikel 2 times(In d semi-finals of d clubworldcup and anoda match).
On 3 other occasions Luiz played in midfield when mikel had a minor injury(hip) where he was out for 2 weeks during march/april and Mikel was unavailable for selection(he wasnt even on d bench).
So in real sense Luiz was chosen over Mikel in Midfield only TWICE last season!!.

The simple reason Luiz was TRIED first in midfield by benitez was this:-
Luiz was a calamity in defence during dat period(november/december).He was the cause of a lot of goals chelsea conceeded.He caused goals by either misplacing passes in dangerous areas or always been caught out of position due to his indisciplined joining of d attack too frequently 4 a defender.
But still in those,his pin-point/dangerous passing abilities was obvious.
His ability to make defence splitting/dangerous passes 4rm defence attracted benitez becos his passing skills was really lacking in d chelsea midfield.
All 3 MFs Lampard,Mikel and ramires didnt/dont have d kind of passing skills Luiz had/has.
So benitez probably tought:-
"Why dont i try him out in midfield ??.His passing abilities could be more useful there.And even when he makes his regular mistakes/misplaced passes from midfield,it wouldnt prove so costly becos defenders would always be at his back 2 cover up,unlike when he makes those foolish mistakes 4rm defence".
Also the midfield department was tooooo THIN.With only Lampard,Ramires and Mikel.And games were coming thick and fast.Chelsea was playing 3 matches a week then.
So benitez(Mr Rotator) probably thought only 3 players in d midfield dept wasnt enough to do a constant rotation to prevent fatigue.
Another reason why luiz was put in midfield.

omar22:

Michael Carrick will still be a Chelsea because he has all the attributes thats keeping Mikel in the squad and he is more mobile than Mikel, he make more forward passes than Mikel.

Same thing i tought about mata.
Mata now works harder and tracks back even more than some players dis season,i tought dat would make jose to place him back were he belongs as a regular starter.But that didnt/hasnt happened.
No matter how good u are,no matter the qualities/attributes u have,if u dont play d way d manager wants,u wouldnt be a regular under him and u wont be vital.
You never can say "What would have been" ?

naija noni: Micheal Carrick vs Mikel
Comparison of no. Of games STARTED in d PL per-season for Man-U and chelsea respectively 4rm 2007:-
2007/2008:-
Mikel=22 starts/Carrick=23 starts
2008/2009 :-
Mikel=33 starts/Carrick=24 starts
2009/2010 :-
Mikel=21 starts/Carrick=21 starts
2010/2011:-
Mikel=28 starts/Carrick=23 starts
2011/2012:-
Mikel=15 starts/Carrick=26 starts
2012/2013:-
Mikel=20 starts/Carrick=34 starts.

Looking very well at these anybody that says Mikel HAS ALWAYS BEEN a squad player all through his chelsea career should also agree the same for carrick.
Man-U is a big club.
Chelsea is also a big club.
Man-U players suffer 4rm injury.
Chelsea players suffer 4rm injury.

Carrick was the best midfielder last season, and Carrick is 7 yrs older than mikel

ur stats are sh!!tt

write2obi:

Carrick was the best midfielder last season, and Carrick is 7 yrs older than mikel

Oga did i argue with u on that ?

naija noni:
Oga did i argue with u on that ?

Bros no vex i just tot i should tell you.

Lol. Naija nr dae karri am