italo:

Seriously, what are you still trying to achieve. Shey you said you are always right because you are guided by the Holy Spirit.

We are always right because we are guided by the Holy Spirit...so everything we say is true.

Removing my hand from this now. I think this is now settled.

That just had to be settled to continue.

Why not let us face the topic of the thread by throwing in something practiced by the RCC and you defend it....honestly and politely....I pledge to do my part too.

The concept of making images in/for the church.
Why is this done.?

adsonstone:

Removing my hand from this now. I think this is no ok.

That just had to be settled to continue.

Why not let us face the topic of the thread by throwing in something practiced by the RCC and you defend it....honestly and politely....I pledge to do my part too.

The concept of making images in/for the church.
Why is this done.?

It was inspired by the Holy Spirit that guides us. So it is right. We are always right!

...and I'm sticking to topic ("defend Catholic teachings) perfectly.

And I am being honest and polite.

Is there something wrong with my defense?

Can we have the Holy Spirit and teach wrong?

italo:

It was inspired by the Holy Spirit that guides us. So it is right. We are always right!

can you prove it to be right (and inspired)?.....

....because every other spirit-filled christian believes it to be wrong though Rcc suppose it to be right (and of course, Inspired as you just declared)....also, hindus, taoism, zoroastranism also believe it to be right.

adsonstone:

can you prove it to be right?.....

....because every other spirit-filled christian believes it to be wrong though Rcc suppose it to be right (and of course, Inspired as you just declared)....also, hindus, taoism, zoroastranism also believe it to be right.

You forget that 1.5billion Muslims believe like you that it is wrong.

About 1.7 billion Spirit-filled Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans etc have been taught that it is right by the Holy Spirit. Thats about 80% of Christians.

We are right! The Holy Spirit guides us.

italo:

You forget that 1.5billion Muslims believe like you that it is wrong.

About 1.7 billion Spirit-filled Catholics, Orthodox, Anglicans etc have been taught that it is right by the Holy Spirit. Thats about 80% of Christians.

We are right! The Holy Spirit guides us.

are you referring to the same 1.5billion muslims that an ex-pope declared they were on a way that leads to God?

Are they now all wrong for not using images and perhaps no longer on the way to God?

Or is the pope now wrong to hav said they are on a way that leads to God?


N.B: You have not proved the 'image concept' to be right/inspired. (I'm still waiting for that)

adsonstone:

are you referring to the same 1.5billion muslims that an ex-pope declared they were on a way that leads to God?

Are they now all wrong for not using images and perhaps no longer on the way to God?

Or is the pope now wrong to hav said they are on a way that leads to God?


N.B: You have not proved the 'image concept' to be right/inspired. (I'm still waiting for that)

The Holy Spirit guides us so everything we teach is true.

*not talking about your misconception of what we teach though*

Abi does the Holy Spirit only teach truth to you and make only you always right...but teach us lies and make us wrong?

adsonstone:

are you referring to the same 1.5billion muslims that an ex-pope declared they were on a way that leads to God?

Are they now all wrong for not using images and perhaps no longer on the way to God?

Or is the pope now wrong to hav said they are on a way that leads to God?


N.B: You have not proved the 'image concept' to be right/inspired. (I'm still waiting for that)

jst one question pls.


Did God forbid the 'religious' use of statues??

@italo and woky una never still finish for here? @JMOS it is actually contented that the historical moses wrote the 5 books ascribed to him. But that aside when those books were written that which is certain is that they were inspired, but in an of themselves they didn't constitute the canon, and more importantly they were written before christ and didn't become part of the christian canon until years latter.

italo:

Though I can't help but wonder why it is the same question of mine that has not been answered by both Adsonstone and JMAN05.

Why are you detracting from the discussion with your unecessary question of infellibility ?

Did other people claimed infellibility like your pope ?

Did paul claim such ?

Was peter infellible ?

The only infelible persons is God and Jesus christ.

You can add your pope if you want.

Smh

italo:

The question was: are you fallible or infallible?

Was peter infellible ?

If dem nah wan talk true,make una forget about infallibility na.
Truthislight abeg forget d matter. Make dem talk about d inquisition too,I wan c dem defend dat too.

I have been viewing past Comments- in my own opinion this thread is not properly organised,hence questions are asked but there is no answer given. I thought the purpose for this thread is for Catholics to defend their teachings/ faith-on the defensive not on the offensive (attacking the believes of other religion/denominations). It should be like like Question and Answer Section where each Question is discussed one at a time without derailing from topic. With that in mind I wish to Ask the following Questions.

1)Jesus is a Mighty God (ISAIAH 9:6, JOHN 20:28), So why do Catholics believe he is a the ALMIGHTY GOD when Jesus and the following Scriptures disagree with them: JOHN 14:28-"My father is greater than I"; JOHN 20:17-" I am ascending to my Father...., and My GOD...."; Rev 3:12- Jesus used "My GOD" four(4) times.

2)Why would Satan the devil both tempt and ask Jesus to worship him if he were the Almighty God?-Matt 4:4-8.

3)Why do catholics pray to (address) Mary, the Saints etc The Jews before Jesus, Jesus prayed to the Father/God Almighty, Jesus even taught his disciples to pray to God- The "our father" prayer.

4)Why do some catholics bow their head slightly to the image of Mary when one of the ten commandment clearly says otherwise.

edogho: If dem nah wan talk true,make una forget about infallibility na.
Truthislight abeg forget d matter. Make dem talk about d inquisition too,I wan c dem defend dat too.

No o! It was not "infellible pope" that sactioned the inquisition.

O! maybe, there was no pope by then.

truthislight:

Why are you detracting from the discussion with your unecessary question of infellibility ?

Did other people claimed infellibility like your pope ?

Did paul claim such ?

Was peter infellible ?

The only infelible persons is God and Jesus christ.

You can add your pope if you want.

Smh

Papal Infallibility does not mean that the pope is incapable of sin.. All Popes ar human and therefore sinners.

Infallibility is not somthing that endows a Pope with divine powers, but rather it a gift of the Holy spirit that protects the church from human frailties of a pope.

Pls answ dis

Do you believe that God used men infallible in writting the scripture??

italo:

The Holy Spirit guides us so everything we teach is true.

*not talking about your misconception of what we teach though*

Abi does the Holy Spirit only teach truth to you and make only you always right...but teach us lies and make us wrong?

The Holy Spirit teaches all Christians the same truth....though many have choosen to misunderstand/misuse it.

By the way, you have still not proven the 'image use/concept' to be true/inspired.

....and regarding the bold, clarify the misconception I have about the RCC teachings.

woky: jst one question pls.


Did God forbid the 'religious' use of statues??

Let's consider this passage to answer that question.

Exodus 20:4-5

4. Thou shalt not make any graven image , or any likeness of anything that is in Heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them .....

Was God referring to only non-religious use when He said 'any graven image'?

RikoduoSennin: I have been viewing past Comments- in my own opinion this thread is not properly organised,hence questions are asked but there is no answer given. I thought the purpose for this thread is for Catholics to defend their teachings/ faith-on the defensive not on the offensive (attacking the believes of other religion/denominations). It should be like like Question and Answer Section where each Question is discussed one at a time without derailing from topic. With that in mind I wish to Ask the following Questions.

1)Jesus is a Mighty God (ISAIAH 9:6, JOHN 20:28), So why do Catholics believe he is a the ALMIGHTY GOD when Jesus and the following Scriptures disagree with them: JOHN 14:28-"My father is greater than I"; JOHN 20:17-" I am ascending to my Father...., and My GOD...."; Rev 3:12- Jesus used "My GOD" four(4) times.

2)Why would Satan the devil both tempt and ask Jesus to worship him if he were the Almighty God?-Matt 4:4-8.

3)Why do catholics pray to (address) Mary, the Saints etc The Jews before Jesus, Jesus prayed to the Father/God Almighty, Jesus even taught his disciples to pray to God- The "our father" prayer.

4)Why do some catholics bow their head slightly to the image of Mary when one of the ten commandment clearly says otherwise.

let me answer ur 1st question


Well, according to ur question, its obvious that u dont blv in the Trinity.

God is one being who is three persons: the father, son and Holy spirit.

In mattew 1:23 Immauel "God with us"
in Luck 5:20-24, Jesus christ forgv sins 'an act' only "God" does.
In john 20:28, Thomas testified Jesus is both Lord and God.
Heb 1:5-9, the father him self addresses Jesus as God
In Rev 6:15 Jesus is the first and last

hop u ar cleard.

adsonstone:

The Holy Spirit teaches all Christians the same truth....though many have choosen to misunderstand/misuse it.

And the only people who decided not to misunderstand and misuse the truth are adsonstone and anyone who teaches exactly what adsonstone teaches?...

That is your infallible belief?

adsonstone: By the way, you have still not proven the 'image use/concept' to be true/inspired.

Because you havent shown me how to prove things to be true. Not long ago, you made me believe all you teach is truth and the only proof you gave is "I am guided by the Spirit." Why then, don't you accept my proof. "We are guided by the Spirit, so all we teach is truth."

If you want another kind of proof, lead by example.

adsonstone: ....and regarding the bold, clarify the misconception I have about the RCC teachings.

I haven't said categorically that you have misconceptions. Please wait yill I do.

italo:
And the only people who decided not to misunderstand and misuse the truth are adsonstone and anyone who teaches exactly what adsonstone teaches?...

That is your infallible belief?

Is this a qstn I'm supposed to answer?

italo:
Because you havent shown me how to prove things to be true. Not long ago, you made me believe all you teach is truth and the only proof you gave is "I am guided by the Spirit." Why then, don't you accept my proof. "We are guided by the Spirit, so all we teach is truth."

If you want another kind of proof, lead by example.

after I said that, you failed to bring out any doctrine/practise I believe in that's contrary to what the Holy Spirit has taught you.

.....but I did after you declared yours, and hitherto, you are unable to prove it to be right/inspired.

Lemme help you.
Cite scripture references from the bible to affirm your claim (as I showed Woky one that affirms mine) or just bring reliable links that shows that Jesus/the Apostles used images they used in worship.

italo:
I haven't said categorically that you have misconceptions. Please wait yill I do.

so, what did you mean when you said this?

italo:
*not talking about your misconception of what we teach though*

or were you just joking?

woky:
Do you believe that God used men infallible in writting the scripture??

"God used men infellibly in writing the scriptures" has nothing to do with "pope infellibility".

Your problem is that you equates your political popes with christ apostles.

truthislight:

"God use men infellibly in writing the scriptures" has nothing to do with "pope infellibility".

Your problem is that you equates your political popes with christ apostles.

IT HAS A WHOLE LOT TO DO WITH IT.THE POINT BEEN THAT HUMANS CAN BECOME INFALLIBLE WHEN GUIDED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT

adsonstone:

Let's consider this passage to answer that question.

Exodus 20:4-5

4. Thou shalt not make any graven image , or any likeness of anything that is in Heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth:
5. Thou shalt not bow down thyself to them .....

Was God referring to only non-religious use when He said 'any graven image'?

stil yet to answ my question

pls answer so that we can proceed

truthislight:

Why are you detracting from the discussion with your unecessary question of infellibility ?

Did other people claimed infellibility like your pope ?

Did paul claim such ?

Was peter infellible ?

The only infelible persons is God and Jesus christ.

You can add your pope if you want.

Smh

I know one person who claims to be infallible and he is not the Pope. He is not even Catholic.

His moniker on nairaland is "adsonstone."

What do you think about this?

Secondly, if you say only God and Jesus are infallible, it means all you just said could possibly be wrong, since you're fallible.

truthislight:

"God used men infellibly in writing the scriptures" has nothing to do with "pope infellibility".

Your problem is that you equates your political popes with christ apostles.

dats why i dnt/hardly argue with u guys..


Next..

truthislight:

Was peter infellible ?

Yes.

Was he fallible?

chukwudi44:

IT HAS A WHOLE LOT TO DO WITH IT.THE POINT BEEN THAT HUMANS CAN BECOME INFALLIBLE WHEN GUIDED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT

EXACTLY

edogho: If dem nah wan talk true,make una forget about infallibility na.
Truthislight abeg forget d matter. Make dem talk about d inquisition too,I wan c dem defend dat too.

What about the inquisition?

Remember we are talking about Catholic doctrine.

Still no one has identified which Roman Catholic teachings are infallible.

How many things that Ratzinger said or taught during his time as "pope" were infallible?

Is this statement below of "pope" Boniface VIII infallible?

“We declare, state, define and pronounce that it is altogether necessary to salvation for every human creature to be subject to the Roman pontiff.”

truthislight:

"God used men infellibly in writing the scriptures" has nothing to do with "pope infellibility".

Your problem is that you equates your political popes with christ apostles.

So when exactly did God stop using people infallibly?

italo: I know one person who claims to be infallible and he is not the Pope. He is not even Catholic.

His moniker on nairaland is "adsonstone."

What do you think about this?

Secondly, if you say only God and Jesus are infallible, it means all you just said could possibly be wrong, since you're fallible.

thirdly

if you say Paul and peter ar not infallible then the bible is fallible since they ar fallible

chukwudi44:

IT HAS A WHOLE LOT TO DO WITH IT.THE POINT BEEN THAT HUMANS CAN BECOME INFALLIBLE WHEN GUIDED BY THE HOLY SPIRIT

So, your popes are "infellible" then ? Cool.

So, tell Italo to then answer peoples questions then, and notes, other people dont claim infellibility like you do your popes.

What some people do is devote time and prayerfully study the scriptures like the bereans did, and not claim "infellibility.

If they make mistake, they promptly make correction to remain on the right side with God. (no pride here, lives are at stake). they "keep on asking" to know more.

I dont belief that humans are infellible.
I dont believe humans today are inspired as did christ apostles to write scriptures, if they are inspired, of what use is the scriptures then that the apostles wrote ? Are men today still adding to the scriptures ?

Why only the pope that is infellible in RCC ? Was it only one apostle that wrote sriptures during their times ?

Even men of old that were inspired were still not infellible, but rethter, "men spoke from God" to produce the scriptures though they remain fellible, though this men were fellible men, they did not go against God's instructions, hence they will be rejected.

But your popes, they go against scriptural instructions of God and adds to it.

Even what your popes says and teaches are not infellible and not even him that wrote them but other 'school of thought' writes and send to him to be the mouth piece.

Was it so with christ spostles and other bible writers ? No.

They all and the apostles of christ received directly from God.

Note: They received directly from God, what has your popes received directly from God that does not contradicted other scriptures ?

Infellibility indeed!

The Roman Catholic Church now says that anyone who does not believe that the book of Maccabees (2 of them) is part of the canon of {their} Bible is anathema.

But this is what a Roman Catholic "pope" said about the very same books!

Per "pope" Gregory I

“With reference to which particular we are not acting irregularly, if from the books, though not Canonical, yet brought out for the edifying of the Church, we bring forward testimony.”

So did "pope" Gregory teach that above "infallibly" or not? If not, then "pope" Gregory I taught his church ---- fallibly!

Oh, and is "pope" Gregory ---- anathema?