Unknown to many, not all the Igbo aborigines of Ife followed Prince Chima, later Eze Chima out to their Anioma/Benin axis/ was sold into slavery to make up today’s Lucumi of the Americas/ assimilated into the culture of the Yorubas.

Some remain today in Ife, and are known as Iwinrin, Oluyare or Igare.

Kudos to the Yorubas who have encouraged peaceful coexistence with the Oluyare Igbos.

These Igbos live around Iwinrin, which has been described by Yoruba elders as Igbo town, and their chief is called Obawinrin.

They still play a very important role in Ife culture today, including in the famous Itapa Festival.

The Obawinrin is appointed by the Ooni of Ife.

Remember we have told you a lot about the Olukumis who followed Prince Chima, and we have also told you about the ones that were sold by their conquerors into slavery. We have told you that some of them remained and assimilated into the Yoruba race. These Oluyares are the ones that still maintain a presense in Ife till today.

.

belltwelve: Posted on November 11, 2013 by Prince Charles Oforkaja

Unknown to many, not all the Igbo aborigines of Ife followed Prince Chima, later Eze Chima out to their Anioma/Benin axis/ was sold into slavery to make up today’s Lucumi of the Americas/ assimilated into the culture of the Yorubas.

Some remain today in Ife, and are known as Iwinrin, Oluyare or Igare.

Kudos to the Yorubas who have encouraged peaceful coexistence with the Oluyare Igbos.

These Igbos live around Iwinrin, which has been described by Yoruba elders as Igbo town, and their chief is called Obawinrin.

They still play a very important role in Ife culture today, including in the famous Itapa Festival.


The Obawinrin is appointed by the Ooni of Ife.

Remember we have told you a lot about the Olukumis who followed Prince Chima we have told you about the ones that were sold by their conquerors into slavery. We have told you that some of them remained and assimilated into the Yoruba race. These Oluyares are the ones that still maintain a presense in Ife till today.

Amazing is what I would call the story of the Lucumis.
Source: Igbodefender.com

Were this people the early inhabitants of Ife?
where did they come from, and why were they send away?

Were they the folks that gave us Yoruba language?
Are you insinuating that Igbos were the rightful owners of Yorubaland?
Did the Yoruba language also belong to the Igbo?

Were this Ife Igbos the same as today Igbos in the east?
or you are plotting eastern Igbo in the midst of Yoruba historical hub?

Your conclussion needs further butresing to be understood, but i love the good attempt anyway if you will make it more clearer.

The Ugbo of Ife are in coastal Ondo. You people are trying to rewrite their history and steal their birthright.

The Ugbo of Ife means forest people. The Ifes were civilized city dwellers, the forest people they referred to were in a dark age, uncivilized and unpolished in appearance or manners and lifestyle in that stage of their evolution.

Post source: http://www.igbodefender.com/2013/11/18/the-oluyares-the-igbo-aborigines-of-ife-who-still-live-there/
@ ladionline

Were these people the early inhabitants of Ife? Yes they were the aborigines of Ife.

Where did they come from, and why were they send away? These Igbos came from Igboland in the old times, after the amicable resolution of a long lasting quarel in Eri's royal household.

Were they the folks that gave us Yoruba language? No, but every language including Igbo is the result of a cross fertilization with other languages. For instance, in Olukumi which is spoken in Aniocha in Anioma, 'market' is called 'oza'.. In Yoruba it is 'oja'. Olukumi is the ancient language of these peoples even though a lot of them wont be able to speak it today.

Are you insinuating that Igbos are the rightful owners of Yorubaland? No, the Yorubas are now the owners of the land, hence Yorubaland, as a result of Oduduwa's conquest and Moremi's contribution. But Igbos were the aboriginal (meaning original) owners before that conquest. Read Yoruba history on Moremi, a Yoruba heroine in those times.

Did the Yoruba language also belong to the Igbo? No, Yoruba language is Yoruba language. Igbo language is Igbo language. They may be related but none belongs to the other.

Were these Ife Igbos the same as today Igbos in the east? Yes, as I told you earlier,deep in the Igbo part of Delta State today there are some people that speak Olukumi, a language that has so many similarities with Yoruba language because of the historical contacts (trade and wars) these Igbos had with the Yorubas during the Oduduwa and Moremi eras.

Today these Oluyares complete the historical tapestry of the people of today's Ife, one of the most interesting cities in the world because of its 'never dull' history, and cultural focus.

...or you are plotting eastern Igbo in the midst of Yoruba historical hub? The past will always remain the past but cannot be brought back. So relax, nobody is 'plotting eastern Igbo in the midst of Yoruba historical hub' as you put it and to the best of my knowledge.

So thank you for your intellectual challenge and lets discuss this history further, and challenge any assumptions with cogent facts.

belltwelve: @ ladionline

Were these people the early inhabitants of Ife? Yes they were the aborigines of Ife.

Where did they come from, and why were they send away? These Igbos came from Igboland in the old times, after the amicable resolution of a long lasting quarel in Eri's royal household.

Were they the folks that gave us Yoruba language? No, but every language including Igbo is the result of a cross fertilization with other languages. For instance, in Olukumi which is spoken in Aniocha in Anioma, 'market' is called 'oza'.. In Yoruba it is 'oja'. Olukumi is the ancient language of these peoples even though a lot of them wont be able to speak it today.

Are you insinuating that Igbos are the rightful owners of Yorubaland? No, the Yorubas are now the owners of the land, hence Yorubaland, as a result of Oduduwa's conquest and Moremi's contribution. But Igbos were the aboriginal (meaning original) owners before that conquest. Read Yoruba history on Moremi, a Yoruba heroine in those times.

Did the Yoruba language also belong to the Igbo? No, Yoruba language is Yoruba language. Igbo language is Igbo language. They may be related but none belongs to the other.

Were these Ife Igbos the same as today Igbos in the east? Yes, as I told you earlier,deep in the Igbo part of Delta State today there are some people that speak Olukumi, a language that has so many similarities with Yoruba language because of the historical contacts (trade and wars) these Igbos had with the Yorubas during the Oduduwa and Moremi eras.

Today these Oluyares complete the historical tapestry of the people of today's Ife, one of the most interesting cities in the world because of its 'never dull' history, and cultural focus.

...or you are plotting eastern Igbo in the midst of Yoruba historical hub? The past will always remain the past but cannot be brought back. So relax, nobody is 'plotting eastern Igbo in the midst of Yoruba historical hub' as you put it and to the best of my knowledge.

So thank you for your intellectual challenge and lets discuss this history further, and challenge any assumptions with cogent facts.

Hello o, I respect your mastery of exposition. It is some sort of great ingenuity, people should look within Africa itself and allow cross examination of traditions. That's what you have done here and to me its plausible.

As I wont to believe this, there are others that will still come so we can all cross examine the theory together. Now, what is your take on "aborigin" ? Were they the people that evolve in Africa?

Or people that came first to Africa?

Are you olukumi or an advocate of Olukumi?

Where did Olukumi claim they came from and how?

Were Olukumi people identical with Igbo or Ife-Igbo?

Why is it necessary or compulsory that they were aborigin

what is your falsification test?

Lol So ibos are the true inhabitants of Ile-Ife

U guys just like disturbing Yoruba people, wat concerns Igbo in Moremi's story to the lost Hebrews? aren't they Hebrews again? They now Ifes

This claim can't be taken seriously
It's totally false

All these analyses about tribes, languages and ethnic origins all over Nairaland are just people interpretations.

The truth can only be gotten from Ifa.

Ifa lo mo itan gbogbo idale eya.

Ifa knows the origin of all race, ethnicity and tribe.

belltwelve: Posted on November 11, 2013 by Prince Charles Oforkaja

Unknown to many, not all the Igbo aborigines of Ife followed Prince Chima, later Eze Chima out to their Anioma/Benin axis/ was sold into slavery to make up today’s Lucumi of the Americas/ assimilated into the culture of the Yorubas.

Some remain today in Ife, and are known as Iwinrin, Oluyare or Igare.

Kudos to the Yorubas who have encouraged peaceful coexistence with the Oluyare Igbos.

These Igbos live around Iwinrin, which has been described by Yoruba elders as Igbo town, and their chief is called Obawinrin.

They still play a very important role in Ife culture today, including in the famous Itapa Festival.

The Obawinrin is appointed by the Ooni of Ife.

Remember we have told you a lot about the Olukumis who followed Prince Chima we have told you about the ones that were sold by their conquerors into slavery. We have told you that some of them remained and assimilated into the Yoruba race. These Oluyares are the ones that still maintain a presense in Ife till today.

Amazing is what I would call the story of the Lucumis.
Source: Igbodefender.com

THATS SUCH A TRAVESTY

I actually wanted to take the thread serious until I read that IGBO's were the original inhabitants of Ile Ife.

Mischief makers.

This is getting interesting.

The op is giving something that may have vital implications, he has not stole anything from anyone, its good if we can allow ourselves to make good case of our inspirations or findings, it will add to what we always know or shape it in some ways, it is not good to always take the dream of another person away because we are offended, once it is plain and easy, we should give him a benefit of the doubt and correct his mistakes if any. Writing on things like this, if original, takes courage, and the writer should equally be encouraged to complete his sentence before being crucified.

Ops, my questions are not meant to demystify you, but to help you here or in future researches.

ifyalways: I actually wanted to take the thread serious until I read that IGBO's were the original inhabitants of Ile Ife.

Mischief makers.

Who are the Yoruba? Source: http://www.yorubaalliance.org/Newsletter/newsletter74.htm

As published by National Association of Yoruba Descendants in North America



The first obvious answer to this question is that the Yoruba are a nationality, numbering over 25 million, the majority of whom live in the South Western part of Nigeria in West Africa. Obvious as this answer is, it is not wholly explanatory, and certainly, it is not without its own controversy.

The Yoruba are a black people, of Negro stock and they speak a common language, Yoruba, which belongs to the Kwa group of the Niger-Congo language family. Yoruba is a dialect continuum, i.e. it has many dialects, and the dialect at one end of the continuum is not intelligible to speakers at another end of the continuum, which is why the Ondo dialect is not immediately understandable by someone from say, Lagos or Oyo. If you travel from one part of Yoruba land to another, you will notice slight differences in accent, word for items, etc. The Yoruba are a well urbanized group with genius in arts as symbolized in the famous “Ife Bronzes”. The Yoruba people are also found in neighboring Togo, Benin Republic. Because of the slave trade, the Yoruba can also be found in other parts of the world, including Brazil, Cuba, Trinidad, and the United States.

What makes the Yoruba a nationality, or a nation, not a tribe or clan, and how does one then mark a distinction between Yorubaland and Nigeria? To this last question, there is no better answer than the one provided by Obafemi Awolowo in 1947, to which a later section of this presentation will return. For now, it is necessary to answer the question: “Who are the Yoruba?” by focussing on some critical moments in Yoruba history and thought. Let us address these and other issues by focussing on some critical moments in Yoruba history.

The Oduduwa Dynasty and the Founding of the Nation.

Oduduwa is the legendary progenitor of the Yoruba. There are two variants of the story of how he achieved this feat. The first is cosmogonic, the second, political. The cosmogonic version also has two variants. According to the first variant of the cosmogonic myth, Orisanla (Obatala) was the arch-divinity who was chosen by Olodumare, the supreme deity to create a solid land out of the primordial waters that constituted the earth and of populating the land with human beings. He descended from heaven on a chain, carrying a small snail shell full of earth, palm kernels and a five-toed chicken. He was to empty the content of the snail shell on the water after placing some pieces of iron on it, and then to place the chicken on the earth to spread it over the primordial water. According to the first version of the story, Obatala completed this task to the satisfaction of Olodumare. After creating land, he planted the palm kernels, growing a palm tree with sixteen branches - the original sixteen kings of Yoruba land. Obatala was then given the task of making the physical body of human beings after which Olodumare would give them the breath of life. He also completed this task and this is why he has the title of “obarisa” the king of the orisa. When he completed the task of creating land, he called it “Ile Ife” “This wide / large land”. In this version of the story, Ile Ife is claimed as the ancestral home of the Yoruba.

The other variant of the cosmogonic myth does not credit Obatala with the completion of the task. While it concedes that Obatala was given the task, it avers that Obatala got drunk even before he got to the earth and he was unable to do the job. Olodumare got worried when he did not return on time, and he had to send Oduduwa to find out what was going on. When Oduduwa found Obatala drunk, he simply took over the task and completed it. He created land. The spot on which he landed from heaven and which he redeemed from water to become land is called Ile-Ife and is now considered the sacred and spiritual home of the Yoruba. Obatala was embarrassed when he woke up and, due to this experience, he made it a taboo for any of his devotees to drink palm wine. Olodumare forgave him and gave him the responsibility of molding the physical bodies of human beings. The making of land is a symbolic reference to the founding of the Yoruba kingdoms, and this is why Oduduwa is credited with that achievement (Idowu, 1962).

According to the second version of the myth, there was a pre-existing civilization at Ile-Ife prior to its invasion by a group led by Oduduwa. This group came from the east, where Oduduwa and his group had been persecuted on the basis of religious differences. They came to Ile-Ife and fought and conquered the pre-existing Igbo (unrelated to the present Igbo) inhabitants led by Oreluere (Obatala). Obviously, there is a connection between the two versions of the story. The political one may be the authentic story of the founding of Ife kingdom through conquest. However, the myth of creation lends it a legitimacy that is denied by the conquest story; just as it appears that it is lent some credence by the fact that, as a result of the embarrassment it caused their deity, the followers of Obatala are forbidden from taking palm wine. Indeed the second version of the cosmogonic myth also appears to foreshadow the political variant. The claim that Obatala got drunk and the task of creation had to be performed by Oduduwa already has some political coloration which is now explicit in the political version of the tradition.

What is crucial in both variants of the story is the role of Oduduwa as the founder of the Yoruba nation which is why the name cannot be forgotten. Oduduwa is the symbol of the nation, the rallying point for all those who subscribe to the Yoruba identity. The name Yoruba itself, according to historians Smith, Atanda and others, was fixed on us by our northern neighbors and later popularized by colonial publications. Before then, “Anago”, was used to refer to most of the people called Yoruba today. “Anago” also the name by which some Yoruba in the present Benin Republic and others in the new world still use to refer to themselves, A common origin and language, as well as common political and religious cultures made the Yoruba a nation long before any contact with Europeans and the advent of colonialism.

Moremi ‘s Patriotism and the Survival of the Nation

Upon the death of Oduduwa, there was a dispersal of his children from Ife to found other kingdoms. These original founders of the Yoruba nation included Olowu of Owu (son of Oduduwa’s daughter), Alaketu of Ketu (son of a princess), Oba of Benin, Oragun of Ila, Onisabe of Sabe, Olupopo of Popo, and Oranyan of Oyo. Each of them made a mark in the subsequent urbanization and consolidation of Yoruba confederacy of kingdoms, with each kingdom tracing its origin to Ile-Ife.

[b]After the dispersal, the aborigines, the Igbo, became difficult, and constituted a serious threat to the survival of Ife. Thought to be survivors of the old occupants of the land before the arrival of Oduduwa, these people now turned themselves into marauders. They would come to town in costumes made of raffia with terrible and fearsome appearances, and the Ife people would flee. Then the Igbo would burn down houses and loot the markets. Then came Moremi on the scene - like Deborah of the Old Testament. When no man could dare the Igbos, Moremi asked the Esinminrin river for help and promised to give offerings if she could save her people. The orisa told her to allow herself to be captured and to understudy the Igbo people. She did, and discovered that these were not spirits; only people with raffia for dress. She escaped, and taught her people the trick. The next time that Igbo people came to sack the town, the townspeople set fire on their raffia costumes, and they were roundly defeated. Moremi then had to go back to Esinminrin to thank the gods. Every offering she offered was refused. On divination, she was told that she had to give Oluorogbo, her only son. She did. The lesson of Moremi is the lesson of patriotism and selflessness. The reward may not be reaped in one’s life time. Moremi passed on and became a member of the Yoruba pantheon . The Edi festival celebrates the defeat of the Igbo and the sacrifice of Oluorogbo till today. [/b]

[b]After the dispersal, the aborigines, the Igbo, became difficult, and constituted a serious threat to the survival of Ife. Thought to be survivors of the old occupants of the land before the arrival of Oduduwa, these people now turned themselves into marauders. They would come to town in costumes made of raffia with terrible and fearsome appearances, and the Ife people would flee. Then the Igbo would burn down houses and loot the markets. Then came Moremi on the scene - like Deborah of the Old Testament. When no man could dare the Igbos, Moremi asked the Esinminrin river for help and promised to give offerings if she could save her people. The orisa told her to allow herself to be captured and to understudy the Igbo people. She did, and discovered that these were not spirits; only people with raffia for dress. She escaped, and taught her people the trick. The next time that Igbo people came to sack the town, the townspeople set fire on their raffia costumes, and they were roundly defeated. Moremi then had to go back to Esinminrin to thank the gods. Every offering she offered was refused. On divination, she was told that she had to give Oluorogbo, her only son. She did. The lesson of Moremi is the lesson of patriotism and selflessness. The reward may not be reaped in one’s life time. Moremi passed on and became a member of the Yoruba pantheon . The Edi festival celebrates the defeat of the Igbo and the sacrifice of Oluorogbo till today.[/b]

Bro, you are more magnanimous than the writers of that epic. If it were to be "Yoruba" that is given in the post in place of "Igbo", they will tear that write-up into shreds and glorify the hate, but in spite of this, you still control your temper till now. Well I am not from Ile-Ife, but the post is written with today "Igbo" in mind, they could not be writing about the Igbo in Ile Ife traditions this way. The writer may be unaware that the Igbo in Ife tradition is the same as Igbo in Ile Ife today, hence the sensationalizing. why must it end the post? O jo gate kojo gate...


But i think the poster of the article said the Igbos in the Ife Epic is unrelated to the present Ibo people. What do you think?

@ ladionline
My brother you are a true intellectual; one that is unafraid of intellectual meeting of minds and debates. That is the sign of a scientifically inclined mind.

belltwelve: @ ladionline
My brother you are a true intellectual; one that is unafraid of intellectual meeting of minds and debates. That is the sign of a scientifically inclined mind.

thanks my brother, people use the history that bind us to do a whole lot of things that we have to be very careful, its not easy for deviant views that is unprecedented, but still one has to be careful going through murky waters. Its all bit and piece, but absolute patience and in-gathering of fact will eventually help, it is hell already.

@ ladionline
The truth is that the town of Ife today is culturally rich in a way that few African cities/kingdoms are, and that is because of the rich history of the town and the way the Oonis and the people (the Yoruba of Ife) have defended Yoruba love for culture by recognizing Ife itself as a cultural artefact that should be constantly polished and displayed to the world without unimportant digressions.

None can contend the fact that Ife resembles Rome in embracing culture.

To them, culture is for celebration. No wonder the Osun-Oshogbo Festival became a World Heritage Site, and was embraced the great European mind, Susan Wenger. The Ife people don't have time for looking at the small picture? Once they see culture they champion it. That is civilization.

That is why Ife itself cannot be ignored.

You said are not from Ife. Susan Wenger was a white lady, but she was so engrossed with Ife history and culture that the Yorubas of Ife adopted her as one of them. So we can not only choose to study Ife, we can also replicate what the Ife people are doing today in their area led by Ooni in our our own areas.

I concur, you make a wise statement, ife (love) is in you. You did not learn that on nairaland.

Edited--it's just a waste of time. Suffice to say, this is mostly fantasy and has nothing to do with any probable history.

belltwelve nd ladionline are same....
Why talking to urself?
Still replying.

TerraCotta: Edited--it's just a waste of time. Suffice to say, this is mostly fantasy and has nothing to do with any probable history.

It does have some element of truth going by a lot of issues ecountered in history of most groups that occupy Southern Nigeria. Ife is also Ihe or Uhe.

Abagworo:

It does have some element of truth going by a lot of issues ecountered in history of most groups that occupy Southern Nigeria. Ife is also Ihe or Uhe.

Uhe is the bini pronunciation of Ife

I think bini(Igodomigodo) came from Ife but no strong prove to that yet

Abagworo:

It does have some element of truth going by a lot of issues ecountered in history of most groups that occupy Southern Nigeria. Ife is also Ihe or Uhe.

Hi--I look forward to seeing what the element of truth is. There is no reference to an Eze Chima or Eri in Ife history, mythology, or anthropological works so the OP's initial and follow-up post fails on even the most basic level of honesty. I'm sure the people of Ife are flattered by his desperate need to associate with their well-regarded culture.

The areas where there are suggestions of a relationship between Ile-Ife and Igbo-Ukwu (and Benin, Nupe, Ijebu etc)--basically the use of copper alloys in artwork--is not mentioned by the poster or Prince Oforkaja. They obviously haven't read that widely yet. Also, I'm sure they wouldn't be quick to accept the proposition that Igbo-Ukwu derived its unusual art and culture from Ile-Ife, but there are some art historians who would suggest that.

People like the OP should stop slandering the Olukumi and pulling them into their own twisted and ethnically-motivated fantasies.

macof:
Lol So ibos are the true inhabitants of Ile-Ife

U guys just like disturbing Yoruba people, wat concerns Igbo in Moremi's story to the lost Hebrews? aren't they Hebrews again? They now Ifes

This claim can't be taken seriously
It's totally false

Then, why did the Yorubas of that era call them 'Igbos'? Fine, I'm Ghanaian, but dismissing a theory cuz it's unfavorable to your tribe is a bit parochial and myopic. You could easily have shredded this with actual facts, instead of sneering at it with no objective basis. Your fellow Yoruba simply put forward a counterclaim about 'Ugbos' that was a fact, without ad hominem attacks. By the way, I read somewhere that Olukumi, along with Itsekiri, were initial settlements of Yorubas before they reached Ile-Ife, which explains the Yoruba link.

[quote author=TerraCotta post=19726549]

Hi--I look forward to seeing what the element of truth is. There is no reference to an Eze Chima or Eri in Ife history, mythology, or anthropological works so the OP's initial and follow-up post fails on even the most basic level of honesty. I'm sure the people of Ife are flattered by his desperate need to associate with their well-regarded culture.

The areas where there are suggestions of a relationship between Ile-Ife and Igbo-Ukwu (and Benin, Nupe, Ijebu etc Logically, I don't expect a conquering tribe to care about the details of a group they hypothetically conquered. I mean, how many Hausas cared about the history of Kukawas etc.? Hence, you don't expect Ife people today to care about who they conquered, according to the myth. Plus, the 'Igbo' chief in the Moremi story was not identified by name, leaving room for speculation. I won't take this on face value, but I won't dismiss it totally either.

.

Digging deep. I love this

Their is difference between IGBO = Forest and IGBO = IBO people.

belltwelve:

Unknown to many, not all the Igbo aborigines of Ife followed Prince Chima, later Eze Chima out to their Anioma/Benin axis/ was sold into slavery to make up today’s Lucumi of the Americas/ assimilated into the culture of the Yorubas.

This is why punctuation is essential.

a nice Weather in May....and MayWeather's bout increased my bank account...what a weekend...