Are u surprised? The trade mark of the north has always been to take us one century back. Another Shagari is in power.

presido1:

It will never work.

How can i speak for myself when you have accepted that hatred exist among the ethnic groups in nigeria. As far as that hatred is there, we can't achieve anything collectively.

What are you about dialect, it exist in almost every country Northern Germany speaks diff from the southern part are they not leaving in one germany.

That practicality you mentioned is what lacks in present Nigeria, we only read about everything in Newspapers but we never see come to pass.

Dude Nigeria is not working, Igbos want to go but peacefully this time. Their is even a thread in this forum where the northerners wrote that they are started the process of breaking out from Nigeria. Search you will see it.

Stop deceiving yourself bro.

before i make any comment can you tell me how the igbo break away will be carved out?bearing in mind the niger delta have refused to be part of anyone but be on there own with their oil,because it will be like moving from one master to another
to me i think being together is not the problem nigeria has,the problem is leadership,dont be suprised that after breaking up there will be in fightings amongst the various tribes/regions and the issue of corruption,nepotism and the rest wont go away that easy, look at the south east and the ebeano politics are they not f igbo extraction?are the governors northerners as well?yet they are corrupt,i think the leadership problem and the average nigerian psyche is what should be worked on here america is a conglomerate of diffrent states and they are still working because they have good leadership structure,in spite of scotland yarning and wales they are still in britain,personally i think the parliamentary system will solve al the problems once and for all

@SkyBlue,

Do you think Obasanjo could have been president in an Oduduwa nation in 1999?
I think it's unfair comparing  the UK with Nigeria, the topic wasn't about present economic crunch but corruption. I don't think any British premier has a foreign bank account. All the four nations tha make up Britain are more or less independent of each other in terms of education, healthcare etc. Scottish law is different from England/Wales laws.

Scottish and Northern Irish pounds sterling is different from the regular pounds sterling used in England and Wales, though the same rate/value, they even have different central banks but Bank of England set the base rate of interest etc.

They all have:
- Indepedent parliamentary assemblies with powers
- Executive 1st Minister
- Individual Sports National teams (except for the Olympics)
- National anthems
- National flags
- Individual Coats of arms/symbols

In Nigeria these things above will earn you a treason charge/execution. I can't see the comparism. Presido1 is right. Our problem in Nigeria is the present collective failure, beause of the way we are structured for over 140 million people in a third world environment. Before I use to think like you, thinking I am being patriotic but if we are honest with ourselves, we should start thinking the alternative.  It is now so glaring that political union will never work with Nigeria, economic union? maybe. How many Nigerians would have appended to the independence agreement in 1960 if we had the kind of Nigeria structure and revenue formular etc that we had today? It's funny this same northerner delayed our independence in 1958 because they wanted more autonomy from the South but then oil arrived and changed everything.

Our present union is like asking the Germans, the Brits, the French, the Italian etc that they will all be one single nation and tell me that an English man will ever accept a German as his leader even in heaven. If the British people are given the opprtunity today, I am sure they will vote to pull out of even their present European economic union despite all trade benefits. Or tell Argentina and Peru that they should be part of Brazil as single nation.

It's because of our union that we had OBJ instead of Olu Falea in 1999 because the rest of Nigeria took him to Aso Rock when his kinsmen that knew him better rejected him, that couldn't had been possible in an Odua nation.

@ Presido,

Don't mind them. I am yet to see a single country with an even Christian Muslim split that is successful. Even the Balkans in Europe split themselves along religious lines. All these people saying that Naija should not split are an aggressive minority of Yourubas. The Igbos, Ijaws, Efiks, Ibibios, Calabars, Itsekiris, Tivs etc are all ready for this bloody seccession. We are just waiting for the Yorubas to join the gang because they are the only glue keeping this country together.

Naija should be split in two, nothing more, just North and South.

Ibime:

@ Presido,

Don't mind them. I am yet to see a single country with an even Christian Muslim split that is successful. Even the Balkans in Europe split themselves along religious lines. All these people saying that Naija should not split are an aggressive minority of Yourubas. The Igbos, Ijaws, Efiks, Ibibios, Calabars, Itsekiris, Tivs etc are all ready for this bloody seccession. We are just waiting for the Yorubas to join the gang because they are the only glue keeping this country together.
Naija should be split in two, nothing more, just North and South.

you are going to wait a long time cos it is not going to happen. if we split north and south, what can stop south from splitting to south west,south east and south south?

Splitting will not solve the nigerian problem. it will only put the problem in a different context.

lucabrasi:

before i make any comment can you tell me how the igbo break away will be carved out?bearing in mind the niger delta have refused to be part of anyone but be on there own with their oil,because it will be like moving from one master to another
to me i think being together is not the problem nigeria has,the problem is leadership,don't be suprised that after breaking up there will be in fightings amongst the various tribes/regions and the issue of corruption,nepotism and the rest wont go away that easy, look at the south east and the ebeano politics are they not f igbo extraction?are the governors northerners as well?yet they are corrupt,i think the leadership problem and the average nigerian psyche is what should be worked on here america is a conglomerate of diffrent states and they are still working because they have good leadership structure,in spite of scotland yarning and wales they are still in britain,personally i think the parliamentary system will solve al the problems once and for all

It comes down to the evil oil again. When will people like you believe that a nation can thrive without a single drop of oil? Don't say Niger Delta because if I recall, Imo/Abia are part of Niger Delta, you could have said South South excluding the Igbos inside the South South, they might even prefer the rest of South South and that will be their choice.

South South minus their Igbo neighbours are big and good enough to make their own nation. Montenegro is only 700,000 people home and abroad, Andorra is only 48,000 people and they are all proud nations and successful in their own ways. It is not the size or population of a country that determines their success, neither what is dug out from the ground but human resources and the proper use of our brains. The success of Japan has confirmed that theory.

Before Nigeria was created I don't think the Ijaws, Efik etc has problem living with the Igbo as separate people but good brothers and neighbours. Before the creation of Nigeria, how many Hausa/Fulanis knows the exitence of any group called Ndigbo or Ibibios? Then telling us now we can't live without each other is a bit over the top. Those in Katsina has more something in common with those in Chad than the people of Arochukwu.

When shall people stop making assumption that Igbos want to go with their neighbours, forgeting that we have neighbours too in Cameroon and when they seceded and joined Cameroon in 1961, nothing happened and we still see each other as neighbours and never fought.

Eziachi is correct. We Southern tribes have never had a problem living with each other unless the Hausa man stirs up trouble between us by playing our interests off against each other. I have never met an Ibo who cannot get along with a Yoruba and vice-versa. We Ijaws have traded and settled with the Ibo along the Imo river for centuries. Even in Aba today, you will find descendants of Opobo traders from the 1800's. Maybe even a quarter of Ijaws can trace their ancestry back to Iboland sef, including me.

@vicade,

I will really be glad if we can achieve a prosperous, united country called Nigeria but me and you knew at the back of our minds that a goat has more chance producing a snake than for that to be achieved. We are only pretending with our heads in the sand, postponing the evil day.

I will truly believe the reality of one Nigeria, the day Katsina will elect an Ibibio man as their governor, the day Owerri local govt will have a Yoruba as chairman, the day majority of Yorubas will vote for a man from another tribe in an election a Yorubaman is a candidate too.

Even Lagos being one of the most cosmopolitan city in the world, but still the list of councillors from top to bottom are all Yorubas, when other ethnic nationalties at least constituted 40% of Lagos state population. Go and tell Igbos in Umuahia that an Hausa man should be their house rep, even when Hausas in Umuahia probably constitute 25% of the population of Umuahia city.
Sabongari area in KANO has Igbos/southerner in majority but all their representatives in all spheres of govts are Hausa/Fulani.
If all these don't tell you the mirage or folly of our union, I don't know what will.

Eziachi:

It comes down to the evil oil again. When will people like you believe that a nation can thrive without a single drop of oil? Don't say Niger Delta because if I recall, Imo/Abia are part of Niger Delta, you could have said South South excluding the Igbos inside the South South, they might even prefer the rest of South South and that will be their choice.

South South minus their Igbo neighbours are big and good enough to make their own nation. Montenegro is only 700,000 people home and abroad, Andorra is only 48,000 people and they are all proud nations and successful in their own ways. It is not the size or population of a country that determines their success, neither what is dug out from the ground but human resources and the proper use of our brains. The success of Japan has confirmed that theory.

Before Nigeria was created I don't think the Ijaws, Efik etc has problem living with the Igbo as separate people but good brothers and neighbours. Before the creation of Nigeria, how many Hausa/Fulanis knows the exitence of any group called Ndigbo or Ibibios? Then telling us now we can't live without each other is a bit over the top. Those in Katsina has more something in common with those in Chad than the people of Arochukwu.

When shall people stop making assumption that Igbos want to go with their neighbours, forgeting that we have neighbours too in Cameroon and when they seceded and joined Cameroon in 1961, nothing happened and we still see each other as neighbours and never fought.

the reason why i asked is to get things in their right perspective,its obvious that the oil is actually our problem because its the dead meat attracting vultures and when its gone or finished at least the vultures will go back to their hideout,the point im making is that bad leadership in more of a problem than breaking up,we all know all tribes individually have the potentials to be great but do they have commendable leadersno
i dont know that much about ndigh=bo and other south east groups ,but how come there s a power tussle between them,just look at anambra state even without the pdp,look at other south eastern states,thats not down to hausa/fulani,same as yoruba states,south south e.t.c

if that is not sorted out,believe me we will be saying the same thing,also what sort of government will they be practicing

Eziachi:

@vicade,

I will really be glad if we can achieve a prosperous, united country called Nigeria but me and you knew at the back of our minds that a goat has more chance producing a snake than for that to be achieved. We are only pretending with our heads in the sand, postponing the evil day.

I will truly believe the reality of one Nigeria, the day Katsina will elect an Ibibio man as their governor, the day Owerri local govt will have a Yoruba as chairman, the day majority of Yorubas will vote for a man from another tribe in an election a Yorubaman is a candidate too.

Even Lagos being one of the most cosmopolitan city in the world, but still the list of councillors from top to bottom are all Yorubas, when other ethnic nationalties at least constituted 40% of Lagos state population. Go and tell Igbos in Umuahia that an Hausa man should be their house rep, even when Hausas in Umuahia probably constitute 25% of the population of Umuahia city.
Sabongari area in KANO has Igbos/southerner in majority but all their representatives in all spheres of govts are Hausa/Fulani.
If all these don't tell you the mirage or folly of our union, I don't know what will.

that isnt the fault of anybody but our collective selfishness,why did you think m.k.o abiola was voted for by all the tribes in nigeria?even though nigerians know he was as bad as the rest of the corrupt politicians but he was generous with his wealth,let us be honest,apart from the ibos doing business in lagos,before spending 1 million to build a house in lagos they would have built a 10million house in their village,same thing goes for other tribes as well, im not necesarily saying it is a bad thing but im saying its only where you have a long term presence and ties both familial,where you are known in the community and you begin to push for elective positions,you know tinubu is not originally from lagos state from what i heard?check his cabinet as well,many of them are not from lagos state,many of these ppl are actually from other yoruba states,also lets be honest if you go to any ibo or hausa gathering in lagos,you will know immediately you are an outsider

lol
from oil deals to splitting
what/who is the messiah then?
when wud he be coming for the grand rescue?

Eziachi:

@vicade,

I will really be glad if we can achieve a prosperous, united country called Nigeria but me and you knew at the back of our minds that a goat has more chance producing a snake than for that to be achieved. We are only pretending with our heads in the sand, postponing the evil day.

I will truly believe the reality of one Nigeria, the day Katsina will elect an Ibibio man as their governor, the day Owerri local govt will have a Yoruba as chairman, the day majority of Yorubas will vote for a man from another tribe in an election a Yorubaman is a candidate too.

Even Lagos being one of the most cosmopolitan city in the world, but still the list of councillors from top to bottom are all Yorubas, when other ethnic nationalties at least constituted 40% of Lagos state population. Go and tell Igbos in Umuahia that an Hausa man should be their house rep, even when Hausas in Umuahia probably constitute 25% of the population of Umuahia city.
Sabongari area in KANO has Igbos/southerner in majority but all their representatives in all spheres of govts are Hausa/Fulani.
If all these don't tell you the mirage or folly of our union, I don't know what will.

Those occurrences are not exclusive to Nigeria - in British Columbia, Canada, Asians (Chinese mostly) make up nearly 50% of the population, some of them having been there longer than many Caucasians yet the legislative assemblies and so on are 90% Caucasian. That shows that simply residing in high numbers in a particular locale does not necessarily result in commensurate political representation even in developed democracies and unions.

@ Luca

the reasons the Igbos will build a 10m house in the villa before doing it in Lagos is that no one wants another case of 'abandoned properties' to happen as occurred during the civil war where Igbo properties around the country were confiscated.

Nigeria dividing will be a long and arduous process, and if it happens in the current time, will be fraught with enormous loss of life and strife. There are MANY Nigerians who are benefiting from the existence of the nation - cutting across tribes, and those people have a say as well and will not support a dissolution.

Loosening of the ties to make the nation more federal will meet most of the needs people calling for a split up are after. That is a more reasonable and more achievable goal in my view - true federalism.

debosky:



@ Luca

the reasons the Igbos will build a 10m house in the villa before doing it in Lagos is that no one wants another case of 'abandoned properties' to happen as occurred during the civil war where Igbo properties around the country were confiscated.

Nigeria dividing will be a long and arduous process, and if it happens in the current time, will be fraught with enormous loss of life and strife. There are MANY Nigerians who are benefiting from the existence of the nation - cutting across tribes, and those people have a say as well and will not support a dissolution.

Loosening of the ties to make the nation more federal will meet most of the needs people calling for a split up are after. That is a more reasonable and more achievable goal in my view - true federalism.

you are right,but surely that will run contrary to having community spirit in a state where you spend most of your life time?if you dont have enough ties to a community it will be difficult to convince the majority of the "natives" who make up the majority of lagosians that you are fit to govern in whatever capacity,i was reacting to eziachi's assertion that its not one nigeria because ibo s dont have elective posts in lagos e.t.c

i dont support the dividing as well,but i believe there has to be a sovereign nat conference because there are so many issues that needs sorting out,so many questions that need answering,if you ask me ill go for the parliamentary system of governance like in united kingdom,apart from distributing power evenly as opposed to what we have now in the presidential system,there will be more checks and balances and marginalised tribes will have more of a sense of belonging and say in decision making,it will also address most of the grieviances of either the south easterners and south south because it will no longer be a one man show,if people could espend the energy of calling for break up into pushing for alternative system of government ,that has more chances of happening than break up frankly speaking

Forget all this Sovereign National Conference talk. After the conference, the Hausa will go to their own conference and hatch more divisive plots. As long as Nigeria is together, the Hausas will only look to placate the Yorubas and the Ijaws cos the Yorubas share borders with them and the Ijaws sit on the oil. They will never give a shit about what the Ibo's think from now till eternity. The only reason they gave Baba Iyabo the Presidency is cos they know that without the Yoruba onside, Nigeria will spew them forth like a rabid disease. Yorubaland is their buffer zone between them and the rest of Nigeria who they mercilessly oppress. We should return to our original constitution, practice true federalism like Debosky said and take it from there.

Ibime:

Forget all this Sovereign National Conference talk. After the conference, the Hausa will go to their own conference and hatch more divisive plots. As long as Nigeria is together, the Hausas will only look to placate the Yorubas and the Ijaws because the Yorubas share borders with them and the Ijaws sit on the oil. They will never give a shit about what the Ibo's think from now till eternity. The only reason they gave Baba Iyabo the Presidency is because they know that without the Yoruba onside, Nigeria will spew them forth like a rabid disease. Yorubaland is their buffer zone between them and the rest of Nigeria who they mercilessly oppress. We should return to our original constitution, practice true federalism like Debosky said and take it from there.

why,at least everybody will have a chance to state their own problems and what they want,look at the '63 or is it 67 constitution and then the 99 constitutional amendment?its like a constitutional lawyer got drunk and was just writing anything,not a true reflection of whats on groun in nigeria,i will still continue to say it that leadership is the problem look at the yorubas during ad time,ad was controlling the south west even all through military time,when obj came with divide and rule look at how they all collapsed like a house built with a pack of cards,look at the south east peter obi has not had a good nights rest since he came to power,see imo state,ebonyi and the menace ofgodfathers, look at nnamani or whts his name and his ebeano brand of politics, the point im making yet again is that the whole country will be in anarchy if we break up at this time without having dialogue,

With all due respect to the intellectuals in the house. I sometimes feel that we get swayed by digressions and overlook the real issue being discussed. Please there shouldn't be any attempt to trivialise or tribalise the conjectures being made by pointblanknews. However, a few lines would put us all in a better perspective.

@ Debosky: It is a well-known fact that Intels is jointly owned by Atiku and the Yar Adua family. Most of the eastern ports were concessioned to this company about the same time that Atiku was the head of customs! Infact at the height of the OBJ-Atiku rivalry ,the issue of Intel was dug up but perhaps due to the Yar Adua (Shehu's) factor it didn't raise much dust.

Yar Adua himself alluded to a cabal orchestrating the conflicts in the restive Niger Delta regions as similar to the "Blood Diamond" profiteers in then Liberia and Sierra Leone at the G8 summit. He coined the word "blood oil" for the bunkering and illegal smuggling being perpetrated under the guise of militancy.

Now given above, the president seems well informed about the origin of the catastrophe, never before has this mind-boggling revelation been made by any govt representative on the Niger Delta issue. We have always been made to believe that it borders on just equitable distribution of resources and environmental degradation.
A new vista has just been added to it and i would implore us all to focus on the larger picture.

My Turai will never  smuggle. If She did, she would have told me and send some money to me as part of the national cake, since she have not send money to me. She is not. If not we family member would have her leave Oga Yar Adua. To God who make me I would pay her monthly salary.

http://.com

@presido1 your responses never seem to address the posts you reference. I asked you for proof the the whole Scotland and England debacle was about resource control and you are yet to show or prove that. Does that mean you just jumped on assumptions and sentiments without any proof? I keep telling you to speak for yourself and maybe others you know because you speak as if this hatred is for everyone even though we know it isn't true. I am also Nigerian and you don't speak for me or for my family and friends who do not share such tribal bias and hatred. "Igbo wants to go peacefully this time"? So i am guessing you held a referendum and the feedback you got from a majority of igbos is that they want to go this time or is this just another assumption you are making like the whole "Scotland vs England is about resource control"?

What is most amusing is your immediate answer to an elaborate post - "it will never work". Why will it never work? Why do you think Nigeria will never work and yet seperate nations will? What have we actually tried to do about the nation that was tried and yet never worked? Again i don't mean to insult you but i think you might be the one deceiving yourself because you are so quick to assume that seperation is the solution to the problems that will probably still be present in the new nations unless you have a good arguement to counter this?

@Ibime, so i am guessing to give your post justification you also want to assume that i am yoruba and hence don't want seperation? You want to assume that the only people who want to be together are yorubas? Please build on better foundations next time.

@Eziachi i think you should have read through the postings well before you assumed where the whole comparing with UK came into the whole matter. Also your assumption that OBJ would not have been elected in a new nation is just funny because you are willing to assume this as some kind of a justification.

First of all, I think the title of this thread is not 100% true, but for the benefit of joining this discussion, I'll assume there's some shades of truth to it. Controlling the major sources of revenue, electricity, transportation, and even university education by a few individuals is the main reason why Nigeria is not developing. Despite making the "patriotic" argument that Nigeria needs to be one, and share it's natural resources, you can see how Atiku, Danjuma, and Yardua have each benefited immensely from our nations reserve, not their people or state.

naijaking1:

First of all, I think the title of this thread is not 100% true, but for the benefit of joining this discussion, I'll assume there's some shades of truth to it. Controlling the major sources of revenue, electricity, transportation, and even university education by a few individuals is the main reason why Nigeria is not developing. Despite making the "patriotic" argument that Nigeria needs to be one, and share it's natural resources, you can see how Atiku, Danjuma, and Yardua have each benefited immensely from our nations reserve, not their people or state.

why exactly did you come to the conclusion that the thread is not true?
is the accounts too mind boggling to happen in nigeria
are the duo of yar adull and his wife not capable or too morally upright to indulge in shady deals
or isnt there anything linking yar adua to intels
men worst things have happened in nigeria,wernt you there when there were reports of some unnamed religious organisations benefiting from import waivers for church building equipments e.t.c and they converted it into bringin luxury vehicles

Sometimes, denial is a weapon for maintaining your own sanity.

This should not be a shock to anyone. After all, who are his friends? Who does he look up to? Greedy thieves that have robbed us of billions are the people he surrounds himself with. He's always been guilty by association, and now guilty by criminal intent and motive.

$20m is nothing. I am just glad it is not $5bn like Baba Iyabo. Do we realistically expect our leaders not to steal anything when they need money to protect themselves after they finish their term? Yar'Adua came in by electoral thuggery so do we expect bad fruit to produce good seed?

That's pocket change compared to the whopping amount Sam Egwu stole.

Hmmm

Na them get 9Ja, no wahala