Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. - Religion - Nairaland
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| Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by Nobody: 6:58pm On Nov 30, 2013 |
Are You Immortal? IN ANSWER to this, millions of people—Catholics, Protestants, Muslims, Hindus and others will say: “My body dies, of course, but my soul is immortal.” And since, in their view, the body is merely a temporary “shell,” they must consider their real selves as immortal. Where did this belief begin? Was it among those who profess to be Christians? With the Muslims? With the more ancient Buddhists? Or perhaps somewhere else? Actually, it dates back to ancient Babylon. Later, Greek philosophers, such as Pythagoras of the sixth century and Socrates and Plato of the fifth century B.C.E., developed this idea of human immortality. Plato quotes Socrates as saying: The “soul [at death] . . . departs to the invisible world—to the divine and immortal . . . and forever dwells . . . in company with the gods.” Early Christianity and Immortality When was the teaching of the soul’s immortality introduced among Christians? Isaac Taylor, in his book Ancient Christianity, says that Christianity, by the second century, “had fallen into the hands [of teachers] thoroughly trained . . . in the Grecian schools of philosophy and who . . . turned, with an instinctive distaste, from the Gospel.” By the third century, Tertullian, a prominent church leader, taught: “Some things are known even by nature: the immortality of the soul, for instance, is held by many . . . I will use, therefore, the opinion of a Plato when asserting Every soul is immortal.” The fifth-century church teacher Augustine said: “The human soul is truly affirmed to be immortal.” From that time forward, the doctrine of the immortality of the soul became basic throughout Christendom. As Dr. Laidlaw expressed it in his book Bible Doctrine of Man: “Gradually . . . the Greek influence prevailed, and even in the Christian Church the idea of the soul’s immortality for long took the place of the Scripture doctrine of future life.” (Italics ours) This, in turn, led to the teachings of temporary torment in a purgatory or eternal torment of souls in hell. Poor people have spent large amounts of money to request priests to pray for souls of the dead, that they might be released from purgatory. All of this because of embracing Greek philosophy! Do Church Leaders All Agree? Many Bible scholars and clergymen question the “immortal soul” doctrine. Wesleyan Methodist clergyman Agar Beet wrote: “The Christian doctrine of the immortality of the soul is a curious example of an opinion destitute of any foundation in the Bible and in some measure contradicting it, derived only from Greek philosophy, yet held firmly by large numbers of educated and intelligent Christian teachers and writers on the mistaken supposition that it is taught in the Bible.” Similarly, Dr. Martensen, former bishop of Zealand, Denmark, wrote: “It may be considered to be universally acknowledged in our day that no independent proof can be given of the immortality of man.” However, the doctrine continues to be included in most church creeds. For example, the Book of Catechism of the Dutch Reformed Church in South Africa states: “The soul thus lives on and is immortal.” Interestingly, the Hoofstad newspaper of Pretoria, South Africa, published an article entitled “Soul Does Not Survive,” which reported a leader of the same church, Professor Adrio König, as saying: “Christians must get away from the idea which originated with the Greek philosopher Plato that man consists of two parts: body and soul . . . according to the Bible man’s existence ends with death. There is not ‘something’ like a soul that lives on.” Why the lack of agreement among the clergy? Because the majority of them have not held firmly to the Bible as God’s Word, though they may give the impression that the Bible is what they teach. Instead, they have exchanged it for human philosophy—their own and that of the ancient Greeks. What Jehovah’s Witnesses Believe Jehovah’s Witnesses do not share Christendom’s belief of inherent immortality. They believe that the human soul is mortal, that the dead experience no sensations at all. Why? Because they accept the Bible as God’s revelation of truth to mankind. It is of interest to know that the writers of the Hebrew Scriptures (Old Testament) never once referred to the words “néphesh” (Hebrew for “soul”) or “rúahh” (Hebrew for “spirit”) as immortal. Rather, they taught that the human soul dies: “The soul that sinneth, it shall die.” (Ezekiel 18:4, 20, Authorized Version; see also Psalm 22:29; 78:50.) The dead are spoken of as being unconscious: “For the living know that they shall die, but the dead know nothing more. Neither have they a reward any more . . . Whatsoever thy hand is able to do, do it earnestly: for neither work, nor reason, nor wisdom, nor knowledge, shall be in hell [mankind’s common grave], whither thou art hastening.”—Ecclesiastes 9:5, 10, Catholic Douay Version. The Greek Scriptures (New Testament) give the same view about the soul and death. Jesus said that God “can destroy both soul and body.” So if the soul is destructible it cannot be immortal. (Matthew 10:28) With reference to Jesus, the apostle Peter stated: “Any soul that does not listen to that Prophet will be completely destroyed.” (Acts 3:23) Jesus showed too that the dead are unconscious, because he likened death to a ‘restful sleep.’ (John 11:11-14) This agrees with what can readily be discerned by anyone who has attended a funeral where the body of the deceased could be viewed. According to the account of creation recorded at Genesis 2:7, Adam was formed from the dust of the ground and “the man came to be a living soul.” Therefore the Bible often uses the expression “his soul” to refer to the person “himself” as in the case of young David: “Jonathan began to love him as his own soul [as himself].” (1 Samuel 18:1) Commenting on this, The New International Dictionary of New Testament Theology says: “To such a degree is the soul a summing of the whole personality, of the whole self of a person, that ‘soul’ can be equivalent to ‘I myself’ or ‘yourself’ (1 Samuel 18:1). In Genesis 2:7 [soul] means ‘person’ or ‘being.’” The glorious hope that the Bible holds out for future life is by means of a resurrection. William Tyndale, famous Bible translator of the 16th century, once remarked: “If the soul be in heaven, tell me what cause is there for the resurrection?” At the time of being raised from death to life, the Bible says that certain chosen ones “put on immortality,” to be enjoyed with God and Christ in heaven. Obviously, then, these chosen ones are not born with immortality; if they remain faithful to death they will ‘put it on’ as a reward.—1 Corinthians 15:51-54; see also Romans 2:6, 7. The vast majority of the dead will receive a resurrection back to this earth in God’s coming new order. When on earth Jesus demonstrated this by raising a number of people from the dead. In addition he promised: “Do not marvel at this, because the hour is coming in which all those in the memorial tombs will hear [my] voice and come out.”—John 5:28, 29. Jehovah’s Witnesses firmly believe this. For that reason, when personally faced with death or when losing a loved one in death, they have a basis for genuine hope. It will be one of the tremendous events of unspeakable joy in the New Order, when God, with his infinite power and wisdom, raises the dead. He will thus fulfill his promise to ‘wipe away all tears’ at that time when he ‘makes all things new.’—Revelation 21:4, 5. Plato quotes Socrates as saying: The “soul [at death] . . . departs to the invisible world—to the divine and immortal . . . and forever dwells . . . in company with the gods” 2 Likes |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by arsenalwenger: 11:38pm On Nov 30, 2013 |
I know JW preach and spread whatever seems to be against christian doctrine as long as there is a single verse that remotely support their doctrine, even when there are other 99 other verses that solidify christian teachings on the subject matter. Well JMAN05, you as a JW, have been brainwashed never to believe anything or discussion that goes against watchtower beliefs or teachings. So are you ready to learn or start an argument, as a typical JW does? 3 Likes |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by Nobody: 12:43am On Dec 01, 2013 |
arsenalwenger: I know JW preach and spread whatever seems to be against christian doctrine as long as there is a single verse that remotely support their doctrine, even when there are other 99 other verses that solidify christian teachings on the subject matter. You have also been brainwashed to believe a lie , the lie that MAN is immortal. MAN is mortal , this is the bible stance. 2 Likes |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by arsenalwenger: 8:23am On Dec 01, 2013 |
frosbel:James 2:26. Without the spirit, the body is dead. HUMAN BODY + SPIRIT= LIVING BEING. SPIRIT = LIVING BEING - HUMAN BODY. Ecl 11:5. Even the human spirit and the body are distinct entities right from the womb. Luke 23:46. The human spirit goes back to God after death. Gen 4: 8-10 and Heb 12:24. Even at death, the blood can still call upon God for vegeance or petition him. 1 king 17:17-24. God can return a spirit to a body and make the body living again. Act 7:59. We can commit our spirit to God at death, if we have the opportunity. Our spirit live even while our bodies are damaged. Matthew 17: 1-13. Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus and were seen by some of the disciples. These men died long ago before the incaranation of Jesus on earth, but their spirits appear to Jesus. John 8:56,57. Abraham, though had died long time ago, was happy to see Jesus' day. Where do they meet? The answer is in the scriptures. Exodus 3:6 and Matthew 22: 32. God is God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He is not the God of the death, but the God of the living. To God and Jesus, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (and many other faithfull men and women of God) are still alive (though physically dead in the eyes of men). I dont think Jesus has also been brianwashed to believe that Abraham and co are still living, though spiritually (cos God is the God of the living and this men had died long ago before God made that prononcement concerning them. The bible say that a carnal man cannot receive (or believe) the thing of the spirit, because they are foolishness (or irrational) to him (1 corinthians 2:14). 3 Likes |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by Nobody: 8:38am On Dec 01, 2013 |
what I'm I doing here  |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by truthislight: 5:15pm On Dec 01, 2013 |
arsenalwenger: James 2:26. Without the spirit, the body is dead. HUMAN BODY + SPIRIT= LIVING BEING. That ^ is a very poor bible student effort, you are speaking into the bible rather than let the bible speak for itself. |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by Nobody: 11:37am On Dec 02, 2013 |
arsenalwenger: I know JW preach and spread whatever seems to be against christian doctrine as long as there is a single verse that remotely support their doctrine, even when there are other 99 other verses that solidify christian teachings on the subject matter. You have MAN is mortal , this is the bible stance. |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by Nobody: 12:37pm On Dec 02, 2013 |
arsenalwenger: James 2:26. Without the spirit, the body is dead. HUMAN BODY + SPIRIT= LIVING BEING. I never said that was wrong. You now assume that that spirit is a person? there is where you go wrong. his statement is from the knowledge of how we were made. 7 And Jehovah God proceeded to form the man out of dust from the ground and to blow into his nostrils the breath of life, and the man came to be a living soul." Breath of life (spirit) + lifeless soul = living soul. Living soul - breath of life (spirit) = lifeless soul. In the sweat of your face you will eat bread until you return to the ground, for out of it you were taken. For dust you are and to dust you will return.” what do you understand from the above? Ecl 11:5. Even the human spirit and the body are distinct entities right from the womb. Ya somehow, in that the breath is not the body and the body is not the spirit(breath). The spirit acticates the body, but they cannot exist independently of each other. for that will mean that Adam has been in heaven before coming to exist as a human, or that all of us including the anilmals have been in heaven before coming to exist as humans. Does that make any sense to you? Luke 23:46. The human spirit goes back to God after death. Of course, the spirit goes back to God who gave it, but it is not a conscious person, just like it was not conscious when humans were never created. Psalms 146:4. It only means that the ability for that one to live in the future now rests with God. that is what Jesus was looking forward to, the resurrection. Jesus showed that he hasnt been to the father yet after he was resurrected. Notice that 'human thoughts perished after death' in that psalms 146:4. when one is still living in heaven. does his thought perish? Pls just think about it. Gen 4: 8-10 and Heb 12:24. Even at death, the blood can still call upon God for vegeance or petition him. I would not think that to be reasonable. rather I will say that that statement means that justice is demanded on the blood of Abel 'cos as someone who was killed unjustly, God who vengence belongs to, knows that it behoves on Him to render justice to the culprit. God sees it as a duty He owes to the slain. 1 king 17:17-24. God can return a spirit to a body and make the body living again. Ya, God can send the spirit to activate the body, but this spirit is'nt a conscious being when the person dies. compare Eccl. 9:5. Stating that it is a conscious being will be stating that the wicked also goes to stay with God after death 'cos the spirit of all goes to God who gave it, whether animal, righteous and unrighteous humans. Eccl. 12:7 Then the dust returns to the earth just as it happened to be and the spirit itself returns to the [true] God who gave it. We can commit our spirit as it were, ie, expecting that God will resurrect us in the future. whether you commit the spirit or not, the spirit goes back to God, in that, our future life prospect rests on HIM. Matthew 17: 1-13. Moses and Elijah appeared to Jesus and were seen by some of the disciples. These men died long ago before the incaranation of Jesus on earth, but their spirits appear to Jesus. Did that place say Moses and Elijah's spirit? compare John 3:13 John 8:56,57. Abraham, though had died long time ago, was happy to see Jesus' day. Where do they meet? The answer is in the scriptures. It is by faith that he believed that that seed who became Jesus will come, and the blessing to follow this makes him rejoice. read Heb 11. also 1Pet. 1:11-12 11 They kept on investigating what particular season or what sort of [season] the spirit in them was indicating concerning Christ when it was bearing witness beforehand about the sufferings for Christ and about the glories to follow these. 12[b] It was revealed to them that, not to themselves, but to YOU[/b], they were ministering the things that have now been announced to YOU through those who have declared the good news to YOU with holy spirit sent forth from heaven. Into these very things angels are desiring to peer Exodus 3:6 and Matthew 22: 32. God is God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob. He is not the God of the death, but the God of the living. To God and Jesus, Abraham, Isaac and Jacob (and many other faithfull men and women of God) are still alive (though physically dead in the eyes of men). I dont think Jesus has also been brianwashed to believe that Abraham and co are still living, though spiritually (cos God is the God of the living and this men had died long ago before God made that prononcement concerning them. In the eyes of God, those men are living cos their resurrection is sure. the bible is full of eg of God saying things as if they ve already occurred. the Saduccees do not believe in the resurrection AT ALL. So Jesus statement is in relation to the resurrection NOT that they were still in heaven. compare John 3:13. If the Saducees says the dead wont arise, then God has become the God of the dead, but that singular statement is a prove that they are not only living to Him, but they are sure to be resurrected. luke 20:38 He is a God, not of the dead, but of the living, for they are all living to him. Notice it says "they are all living TO Him", not that they are are all living "WITH Him". that phrase "living to Him" shows that, in God's sight, He doesnt see his loyal ones as dead cos their resurrection is sure. The bible say that a carnal man cannot receive (or believe) the thing of the spirit, because they are foolishness (or irrational) to him (1 corinthians 2:14). Ya, to the carnal man, spiritual things are senseless, but who is being carnal here? I can as well say the same to you. 1 Like |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by tpia5: 5:18pm On Dec 02, 2013 |
No human being is immortal. All must die and face the judgement of God. 2 Likes |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by arsenalwenger: 3:25pm On Dec 03, 2013 |
JMAN05:Human spirit survives after death while the body goes back to soil.. |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by truthislight: 4:03pm On Dec 03, 2013 |
arsenalwenger: Human spirit survives after death while the body goes back to soil.. The spirit, greek pneuma (as in pneumatics), breathe, is lifeless. To illustrate, electric current is lifeless, but it does so many things. |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by Emusan(m): 4:56pm On Dec 03, 2013 |
arsenalwenger: Human spirit survives after death while the body goes back to soil.. Don't mind them all, they will reject anything relate to SPIRIT because they have made the fisrt mistake by calling Holyspirit an Active force of God. keep watching how they keep twisting the scriptures. John who wrote the book of revelation was caught in SPIRIT while his body was in isle. You can see how he twisted the story of Moses & Elijah talking to Jesus. I'm reading from Jan 1 2014 watchtower back page now. There is sub topic title "What sort of person is God?" The first statement there is "God is an invisible SPIRIT PERSON" why the word spirit before person? |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by philfearon(m): 9:13pm On Dec 03, 2013 |
Mtcheeeeeeew!! Thought it was a reasonable thread! Even among the Jews,some believed in Resurrection,and some didnt!! So,who was right? And who was wrong? When Jesus came to earth,some didnt believe that He was the Son of God,while some believed! So,who was wrong ? And who was right? Keep wasting your time with Rubbish!! Ask urself,since you started with this your nairaland Jw stuf,have you converted even a pentecostal or an Atheist?? As alwaz,your aim is just to argue,and to keep bringing up Google assisted weblinks as if you know History!! Mtcheeeeeeew!! 1 Like |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by Nobody: 9:43pm On Dec 03, 2013 |
arsenalwenger: Human spirit survives after death while the body goes back to soil.. ok. so happy that you have no response to my reply. 1 Like |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by Nobody: 10:05pm On Dec 03, 2013 |
Emusan: 1. John was stating how he was shown all that by inspiration. 2. Please how did I twist it? 3. what is wrong with spirit before person? |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by Nobody: 10:42pm On Dec 03, 2013 |
philfearon: Mtcheeeeeeew!! My goal is not simply to convert but to let the truth shine. If you are Christ's sheep his Father will draw you. We are not the one who draw you to God, but God does it Himself. I have seen someone who never believe the trinity though his church does, i have seen one who never believe in immortality, and have seen one who stop believing in hellfire or tithing etc etc. You dont know how we help those ones to fortify their faith in there belief as we defend the truth here. As we prove our point here, we add to the point they have to defend themselves where ever and whenever they meet opposition against the truth. This is also an achievement. The apostles and even Jesus always have points to prove their enemies wrong, but did they become the majority for that? No. rather people even hated them and spoke against them everywhere. Acts 28:22 But we think it proper to hear from you what your thoughts are, for truly as regards this sect it is known to us that everywhere it is spoken against. This witnesses preach the goodnews, given magazines free of charge no matter how large the volume is (unless you wish to contribute), have the mark of love amongst themselves, are neutral, never kill their nabors in wartime, strive to stick to what is written no matter who's ox is gored just like the early christians. Yet people speak against them like they did first century christians. They are rather happy to be spoken against as far as what they do is in accordance with God's word of truth. The bible shows that many will leave the truth to listen to those who will tickle their ears with what they want to hear. We dont offer that. the bible also indicates that many will thread on the wrong road to destruction. Matt. 7:13, 14. 2. Who is right and who is wrong is gotten through proves. compare Acts 17:2, 3 However, keep this in mind ALWAYS: when it is truth, you MUST agree. Your refusal to accept it wont change it to a lie, rather it will only make you ignorant of it. 1 Like |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by truthislight: 10:43pm On Dec 03, 2013 |
Emusan: I abhor when someone with half baked knowledge is postulating as though he knows absolutely. The word spirit is more of a generic name for things that are invisible, hence, the following are called spirit in the bible: 1. Spirit person(Yahwheh, Jesus, Angels) 2. While human have hands to exact their intent and power/do work, spirit beings power to get things done is also call their spirit. 3. The most powerful entitty in the univers is Yahweh(almighty. 'might' ), hence, his power is also refered to as spirit, alias > "holy spirit". 4. Satan also have his own power, hence: "Wherein in time past ye walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, > the 'spirit' that now worketh in the children of disobedience:" (Ephesians 2:2). ...................... From that ^, we find out that satan also has his power, and it is also called "spirit". With that spirit of satan(power of satan), he controls the "sons of disobedience". Again, the power of this entities can enpower its subjects(humans) to do more than they can ordinarily do. This does not mean that a person will come and hold their hands to do more, no, but, like a battery that already has current in it but the current being low and cannot start a car, all you need do is recharge such a battery (add more power) and it can then be able to start the car. So also, human where created with God's spirit from inception, but due to imperfection, we cannot function maximally. But, when an individual is empowered with the spirit of God(God's power), he is recharged and can hence do more than he was able to do befor, like a recharged battery being able to start a car. When that ^ spirit enables someone to do more, is it a person that holds that persons hands ? When Jesus started performing miracle with the spirit of God, was it a 'person' that was holding his hands to do stuff ? ? ? ? ? Is that ^ not clear enough ? Must we all continue living in satan's blindness and call it a mystery ? Its your choice to decide. Peace. 1 Like |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by philfearon(m): 11:37pm On Dec 03, 2013 |
JMAN05:Bro,We are all ruled by Wants or Needs For example,Somebody who doesnt want to pay tithe in a church will likely be attracted to a non-tithe paying Church;and You will see the person raising unecessary questions in google about bible verses that doesnt support payment of Tithe! Thats it......==>He is being ruled his wants!! For someone who doesnt like to go to church,you will see him quoting silly Scriptures that one doesnt necessarily need to belong to a Church,that once You are born again,you belong to the body of Christ! Thats B.ullshit!! As such,as regards ur telling and Defending the truth,What truth are u defending? The one you were taught to defend or the one you found out Yourself? Its as a result of This same Truth that there are 30,000 Christian Denominations,all Preaching and defending the TRUTH Your teachings or Truth will appeal to someone who is Running from a Certain Truth also... So,how are You speaking the Truth when There are over 30,000 denominations speaking this same Truth,and Yet None agrees that the other is right except Them?? Bro,stop Making Your Truth Erroneous statements obvious over and over again!! The only Truth is that,You are appealing To The Gullible's Wants,and nothing More!! Thats Absolute!! |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by Nobody: 2:20am On Dec 04, 2013 |
philfearon: I quite agree with the truth that some can be ruled by what they want/need which point I also stressed above. However, the truth remains the truth. It cannot change 'cos you rejected it to satisfy what you want. Can it? As you read this comment, you see them with your eyes. but can someone prove it wrong that eye is no longer eye but leg? Never! The truth remains whether the person frowns at the spelling of eye or not. If you say that we are immortal, and another says we are mortals. You both cannot be correct at the same time. One is correct and the other wrong. How do we determine? Prove your point, let me prove mine. If you dont accept the one with the logical prove, that doesnt change the truth at all. It only makes you ignorant. As such,as regards ur telling and Defending the truth,What truth are u defending? The one you were taught to defend or the one you found out Yourself? I found it out myself, after all I wasnt born a witness. I made the search. In short the way you approach a discussion will show whether you are convinced of your belief or not and it will show whether your belief is based on sound prove or not. I am not saying that no one helped me. No, other people's work like encyclopedias, history books, bible and other books helped me. Of course someone have to aid your search either directly or in written form. remember the Boerians. Its as a result of This same Truth that there are 30,000 Christian Denominations,all Preaching and defending the TRUTH No, many of this denominations have something in common. In as much as their are different denominations, there is only one truth in a subject NOT two contradictory truths. If you believe that all righteous people goes to heaven, and another says that all will be here on earth, two of you cant be correct at the same time. that is why proving your belief is important. All parts of the bible are correct. As such, to find the truth, we seek for an interpretation that does not contradict any part of the scripture. Anyone that has this teaching that does not contradict any aspect of the scripture is deemed to have the truth. That is how the truth is found. And when followed, you will see that we will all arrive at a truth. assuming the parties apply sincerity. My dear that is it. Even during the time of the apostles, there were denominations is judaism, but that never made all of them correct. Some were wrong in a particular teaching, others were right. Yet all accepted Abraham and Moses as pillars of the religion. Even the apostles saw the need to go and prove their doctrine to others. Acts 17:2, 3 |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by arsenalwenger: 6:41am On Dec 04, 2013 |
JMAN05:I wont honour you by going back and forth on issue that you have already grounded to take a particular position, tutored you by wacthtower. There are many bible verses and Jesus' teachings on the after-life. Since your Jesus (a fallen angel) and my Jesus (God's son and the savior of mankind after whom there is no other savior) are different, definitely there messages will be different. If my Jesus (God's manifestation in the flesh 1tim 3:16) teaches life after death, communned with old prophets (at his transfiguration), taught about the state of the dead (the story of the richman and lazarus), warned of the punishment for the wicked (weeping and gnashing teeth) while your jesus says 'no' to all Jesus teachings, so i dnt think i will keep honourong you with a response. |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by Emusan(m): 7:38am On Dec 04, 2013 |
JMAN05: Was John caught up into heaven in spirit or not? 2. Please how did I twist it? By saying it's not their spirit. 3. what is wrong with spirit before person? Tautology & Confusion!!! NWT: 1 Peter 3:18-19 "....,He was put to death in the flesh but [size=14]made alive in the spirit 19 And in this state he went and preached to the spirits in prison,[/size] Which spirit did Jesus went and preach to and where are the spirit? Remember Jesus was first made ALIVE in the SPIRIT. |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by arsenalwenger: 7:45am On Dec 04, 2013 |
Emusan:John 8:44. Jesus has already summarized their lifestyle by calling them liars. A liar will never be consistent, he will tell you something today and tell you another thing tomorrow. If you catch him he will tell you 'sorry, the light is getting brighter'. A liar will tell you that christ will come in XYZ year. If XYZ year comes and christ never show up, they will tell you that he has already come, that he came invisibly. The bible tells me that God is a Spirit (not a force or active force) and anyone that worship Him must worship him in spirit and in truth. A liar will say 'no'. According to the verse Jesus talking to Elijah and Moses, a liar will say the event never really occured, thats it is a vision. So you can understand how difficult it is to argue with a liar. |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by philfearon(m): 7:52am On Dec 04, 2013 |
JMAN05: @bolded,All,not some..Everyone!! You are right,the truth cannot be changed! So how come You say That Jesus Christ is Michael Whereas the Bible never said such? So,where is this Particular 'Truth' emanating from? I found it out myself, after all I wasnt born a witness. I made the search. In short the way you approach a discussion will show whether you are convinced of your belief or not and it will show whether your belief is based on sound prove or not. Good For You! No, many of this denominations have something in common. What Does The Jehovah Witness and Christ Embassy have in common? In as much as their are different denominations, there is only one truth in a subject NOT two contradictory truths. If you believe that all righteous people goes to heaven, and another says that all will be here on earth, two of you cant be correct at the same time. that is why proving your belief is important. Thats the Thing: Who is Saying the 'Truth' then? All parts of the bible are correct. As such, to find the truth, we seek for an interpretation that does not contradict any part of the scripture. Anyone that has this teaching that does not contradict any aspect of the scripture is deemed to have the truth.Sincerity!! All parts of the Bible are correct,Yes..But it needs some other Parts of Itself to Complement itself...Therefore,one cannot base a single argument or proof in a single Verse just because All Parts of the Bible Is Correct!! |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by Emusan(m): 8:19am On Dec 04, 2013 |
arsenalwenger: John 8:44. Jesus has already summarized their lifestyle by calling them liars. A liar will never be consistent, he will tell you something today and tell you another thing tomorrow. If you catch him he will tell you 'sorry, the light is getting brighter'. My Brother I'm tired ooooo. WE say Holyspirit is a person they say na lie now we can see a definition which resemble what Holyspirit looks like "God is an invisible SPIRIT person!" If you ask them what is spirit? They will say something like wind, force e.t.c if you now substitute this in the definition above I wonder how meaningful it would be. Spirit has been described in the Bible to speakI wonder how inpersonal force can speak. |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by truthislight: 9:26am On Dec 04, 2013 |
Emusan: Where the Holy spirit is said to speak in the bible, it is through a medium > person. That does not neget the fact that it is not a person, is it a person that goes into a radio or TV to talk or electric current/signal ? Note, the action of the holyspirit is the action of Yahweh's power, the most powerful force in the univers, it does whatsoever Yahweh wishes to do. Emusan: I wonder how Electric signals speaks also in radios and TV |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by Nobody: 1:19am On Dec 05, 2013 |
arsenalwenger: I wont honour you by going back and forth on issue that you have already grounded to take a particular position, tutored you by wacthtower. There are many bible verses and Jesus' teachings on the after-life. Since your Jesus (a fallen angel) and my Jesus (God's son and the savior of mankind after whom there is no other savior) are different, definitely there messages will be different. I was not only tutored but confirmed it myself. however, who made aware of the knowledge is not important. at least somebody tutored you too, so why then are you unable to prove your point? Do you have a poor teacher? Can you please tell me when I said that Jesus is a fallen angel? I need the answer, cos I wont accept allegation here. I quite agree with what you think is your position, namely that Jesus is the son of God. I am the one that insist that God almighty cannot be begotten or have a God he worships, but you believe that almighty Jesus is begotten and has a God. I dont agree that almighty can have a God. think about it dude. If my Jesus (God's manifestation in the flesh 1tim 3:16) teaches life after death, communned with old prophets (at his transfiguration), taught about the state of the dead (the story of the richman and lazarus), warned of the punishment for the wicked (weeping and gnashing teeth) while your jesus says 'no' to all Jesus teachings, so i dnt think i will keep honourong you with a response. All the things stated above are true and I believe in them, only your god manifested in the flesh is what clearly cannot be found in the scriptures. its only hilarious how you evade john 3:13 and still believe what your ear wants to hear. the richman and lizarus is a parable. Maybe you have you own Jesus as the bible do not define that jesus you believe in. check greek mythology, I think you have that jesus there. |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by Nobody: 1:40am On Dec 05, 2013 |
Emusan: I ve not read that he was in heaven. the lord's day is not equal to heaven. If it was through vision or what that he received what he wrote, that is not the issue here, we are talking about the dead. he was alive then. By saying it's not their spirit. ok, can you show me where 'their spirit' is written there? Tautology & Confusion!!! Ya, he was made alive in the spirit NOT "first made alive". read down: That which corresponds to this is also now saving YOU, namely, baptism, (not the putting away of the filth of the flesh, but the request made to God for a good conscience,) through the resurrection of Jesus Christ. 22 He is at God’s right hand, for he went his way to heaven; and angels and authorities and powers were made subject to him. Jesus' resurrection was in the spirit, not in the flesh. "declared righteous in the spirit", 1 Tim. 3:16 also notice that "he went his way". that phrase occurred in verse 19. its occurence in verse 22 shows that he never ended that journey only in verse 19 after his resurrection. |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by Nobody: 1:58am On Dec 05, 2013 |
arsenalwenger: John 8:44. Jesus has already summarized their lifestyle by calling them liars. A liar will never be consistent, he will tell you something today and tell you another thing tomorrow. If you catch him he will tell you 'sorry, the light is getting brighter'. Are you in effect saying that the light doesnt get brighter? Prov. 4:18. Are you also saying that God's servants cant make mistake? A liar will tell you that christ will come in XYZ year. If XYZ year comes and christ never show up, they will tell you that he has already come, that he came invisibly. True, we ve had wrong expectations. this is'nt wrong. however, when did we say Christ will come visibly and then change to invisibility when he didnt come visibly? Your prove pls, lets know whether you are now the liar. The bible tells me that God is a Spirit (not a force or active force) and anyone that worship Him must worship him in spirit and in truth. A liar will say 'no'. ok, but we didnt say so. So you lied against us now. According to the verse Jesus talking to Elijah and Moses, a liar will say the event never really occured, thats it is a vision. matt. 17:9 And as they were descending from the mountain, Jesus commanded them, saying: “Tell the vision to no one until the Son of man is raised up from the dead. Did Jesus call it a vision? Yes or no. lets know the liar now. |
| Re: Are You Immortal? History Speaks Out. by Nobody: 2:17am On Dec 05, 2013 |
philfearon: We ve had this discussion before. https://www.nairaland.com/1446860/archangel-michael-jesus-christ/21 What Does The Jehovah Witness and Christ Embassy have in common? We dont belong to those denominations. True christianity do not have denomination as we see in christendom. so my reply was with that understanding in mind. We are simply different. Thats the Thing: Who is Saying the 'Truth' then? 1. the bible is the word of truth, so we weigh which one is the truth with it. 2. I dont understand your final sentence. all parts of the bible are correct, so any teaching which conflicts with any part is wrong teaching. that is the sense I want to stress. if that is what you mean, then I agree with you. |
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