frosbel:

How many hells are there in the bible ?

I should be the one asking you that. Coz Jesus said the rich man was in torment in Hell. Does that sound like resting to you?

ayoku777:

I should be the one asking you that. Coz Jesus said the rich man was in torment in Hell. Does that sound like resting to you?

You said it was a real story, so tell me the name of the rich man.

frosbel:

You said it was a real story, so tell me the name of the rich man.

Don't change the topic sir. Jesus did not give us the name of the rich man, he only gave that of the begger and Abraham. And must all the characters be named before it is a true story? How many other parables did Jesus give even one name of the characters?

But that is even by the side. And even if it was a parable, are you saying Jesus gave us a misinformed account of what happens after death and in hell? Coz he said the man went to hell after death and was in torment. Is this a wrong description of what happens after death and in hell to you?

ayoku777:

Don't change the topic sir. Jesus did not give us the name of the rich man, he only gave that of the begger and Abraham. And must all the characters be named before it is a true story? How many other parables did Jesus give even one name of the characters?

But that is even by the side. And even if it was a parable, are you saying Jesus gave us a misinformed account of what happens after death and in hell? Coz he said the man went to hell after death and was in torment. Is this a wrong description of what happens after death and in hell to you?

Jesus never said anyone was going to hell after death. Hell here means hades which is the grave.

Even Jesus knew that there will be a judgement before punishment and this judgement will only happen after the resurrection.

John 5:28-29
"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear the sound of His voice,
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

How can you be punished before judgement ? Even an earthly judge will not be that unrighteous, except of course the evil ones.

After death is the resurrection and judgement, period. This stance is supported all over the bible.

In fact why did Paul say this :

Hebrews 9:27
King James Version (KJV)
27 And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the judgment:



Why did he not say this :

'And as it is appointed unto men once to die, but after this the HELL:'

frosbel:


Jesus never said anyone was going to hell after death. Hell here means hades which is the grave.

Even Jesus knew that there will be a judgement before punishment and this judgement will only happen after the resurrection.

John 5:28-29
"Marvel not at this: for the hour is coming, in the which all that are in the graves shall hear the sound of His voice,
And shall come forth; they that have done good, unto the resurrection of life; and they that have done evil, unto the resurrection of damnation."

Nawa o. So the rich man was telling Abraham to send Lazarus to his five brothers to warn them so that they won't go to hell AFTER THE RESURRECTION and judgment? Come on.

Obviously this guy was already in hell before any resurrection or judgment day and his brothers were still alive on earth.

ayoku777:

Nawa o. So the rich man was telling Abraham to send Lazarus to his five brothers to warn them so that they won't go to hell AFTER THE RESURRECTION and judgment? Come on.

Obviously this guy was already in hell before any resurrection or judgment day and his brothers were still alive on earth.

You are contradicting Jesus and Paul who said that the dead are asleep and can only be awoken by the resurrection and after this will be judgement.

frosbel:

You are contradicting Jesus and Paul who said that the dead are asleep and can only be awoken by the resurrection and after this will be judgement.

So someone in torment and seeing and crying and talking is asleep in your opinion?

Ok let's look at another account

2Cor 5v8 -We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be PRESENT WITH THE LORD.

Can you see what happens when a christian departs from the body, according to the Paul that you say is contradicting Jesus? When you leave the body, you don't go to sleep in sheol until judgment day, you leave to be with the Lord. Or you wana say present with the Lord is a parable or allegory.

Then this too. Rev 6v9 -And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the alter the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long o Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Were this souls in sheol sleeping or alive before the Lord in soul? They were conscious and alive and even crying unto the Lord

Do more study.

[quote author=ayoku777]

So someone in torment and seeing and crying and talking is asleep in your opinion?

Hades Jesus described in his parable is a mythical place, it is not real.

Food for thought : http://www.britannica.com/EBchecked/topic/251093/Hades

Ok let's look at another account

2Cor 5v8 -We are confident, I say, and willing rather to be absent from the body, and to be PRESENT WITH THE LORD.

Can you see what happens when a christian departs from the body, according to the Paul that you say is contradicting Jesus? When you leave the body, you don't go to sleep in sheol until judgment day, you leave to be with the Lord. Or you wana say present with the Lord is a parable or allegory.

Yes, after death which is sleep, the next thing a believer will experience is to be with the Lord. Again this happens only after the resurrection.

Nobody is with the Lord till he comes in glory and power , i.e the second coming or rapture as some like to call it.

Then this too. Rev 6v9 -And when he had opened the fifth seal, I saw under the alter the souls of them that were slain for the word of God, and for the testimony which they held. And they cried with a loud voice, saying, How long o Lord, holy and true, dost thou not judge and avenge our blood on them that dwell on the earth?

Revelation is full of symbolism, read with prayeful insight. We could also argue that blood cries, because God said that the blood of Abel still cries :

"The LORD said, "What have you done? Listen! Your brother's blood cries out to me from the ground." - Genesis 4:10

Were this souls in sheol sleeping or alive before the Lord in soul?

all those in sheol are asleep.

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/05/us/tbn-fight-offers-glimpse-inside-lavish-tv-ministry.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all&

Here you can read about the real face of this man.

He is one of this Pastors who enrich himself and he didnot live a christian life.

nora544: http://www.nytimes.com/2012/05/05/us/tbn-fight-offers-glimpse-inside-lavish-tv-ministry.html?_r=2&pagewanted=all&

Here you can read about the real face of this man.

He is one of this Pastors who enrich himself and he didnot live a christian life.

Thanks for this.

@Frosbel, there is a thread U opened in 2007 where U recounted ur own experience of descent into hell. Can U reconcile that with this theology of No Hell? As for Paul Crouch my position in his death is two ways: Good riddance; in that TBN is the biggest source of errors in the body of Christ today. But Christ is soveriegn and as deceptive as that network may have been he has used it to save many. I hope Crouch has not made himself a disposable vessel at the end rather than a vessel of honor.

DrummaBoy: @Frosbel, there is a thread U opened in 2007 where U recounted ur own experience of descent into hell. Can U reconcile that with this theology of No Hell? .

Yes, I remember that the experience was real, I was asleep at the time and had a strange dream of descending down a dark tunnel , when I called on the name of the Lord , it stopped. There was no fire, screaming or angels, just an experience. It might have been an attack of some sort.

However, we are to base our faith and hope in the WORD of GOD and not experiences. It is because many base their faith and feelings and experiences on visions/nightmares/dreams - that we have so much demonic deception in the church.

frosbel:

Yes, I remember that the experience was real, I was asleep at the time and had a strange dream of descending down a dark tunnel , when I called on the name of the Lord , it stopped. There was no fire, screaming or angels, just an experience. It might have been an attack of some sort.

However, we are to base our faith and hope in the WORD of GOD and not experiences. It is because many base their faith and feelings and experiences on visions/nightmares/dreams - that we have so much demonic deception in the church.

You are steadily walking down the tunnel and you don't know it, wake up!

OLAADEGBU:

You are steadily walking down the tunnel and you don't know it, wake up!

You support a ministry that promotes Roman Catholicism not to talk of other terrible heresies such as :


- Kenneth Copeland: "I was shocked when I found out who the biggest failure in the Bible actually is....The biggest one is God....I mean, He lost His top-ranking, most anointed angel; the first man He ever created; the first woman He ever created; the whole earth and all the Fullness therein; a third of the angels, at least--that's a big loss, man. . . . Now, the reason you don't think of God as a failure is He never said He's a failure. And you're not a failure till you say you're one."
"Praise-a-Thon" program on TBN [April 1988]



- Frederick K.C. Price: "God can't do anything in this earth realm except what we, the body of Christ, allow Him to do. Now that statement is so--that's so--that's so foreign and so contrary to tradition that, like I said, if they could get their hands on me right now most evangelicals would burn me at the stake and dismember me and feed me to the crocodiles, because they'll consider that statement to be just heresy."
"Ever Increasing Faith" program on TBN [1 May 1992], audiotape #PR11



Benny Hinn: "When you say, 'I am a Christian, you are saying, 'I am mashiach' in the Hebrew. I am a little messiah walking on earth, in other words That is a shocking revelation.... May I say it like this? You are a little god on earth running around." "Praise-a-Thon" program on TBN [6 November 1990]



John Avanzini: "Jesus had a nice house, a big house--big enough to have company stay the night with Him at the house. Let me show you His house. Go over to John the first chapter and I'II show you His house. . . . Now, child of God, that's a house big enough to have company stay the night in. There's His house."
"Believer's Voice of Victory" program on TBN [20 January 1991]




You need to step out of the pit and back into the light while it is not too late.

ayoku777:

That's not true! Do you remember the story of the rich man and Lazarus? It was an actual event because Jesus was detailed even to the name of the begger.

Does this sound like someone sleeping and waiting for the jugdment to you?

And in other matters. RIP to Paul Crouch, he was a christian tv media trailblazer. He took the risk when many believers couldn't and he inspired many with courage to do the same. Now christian channels are everywhere.

It's a true story

Joagbaje:

It's a true story

It is not a true story.

It is a parable.

Christians and christianity!! The last day will be quite interesting

frosbel:


"people are laid to rest and do not rise again. Until the heavens are no more, they will not wake up nor be roused from their sleep." - Job 14:12

It's the body that is laid . Mans spirit is immortal . Lives forever . Doesn't sleep

Joagbaje:
It's a true story

Ofcourse its a true story. Jesus never gave the name of any character in stories that were parables. The parable of the sower, the prodigal son, the unfaithful steward, unprofitable servant, the rich fool, the husbandman and the labourers etc all had no names. He gave no single name in all these, coz they were not actual events, but parables.

This was the only story that Jesus was detailed enough to give a name, and his antecedents with other stories prove this extra information about the name is not random. To say its not true coz the rich man wasn't named is a lazy excuse. Maybe Jesus should have also given the names of the angels that carried Lazarus to Abraham's bosom.

Joagbaje:

It's the body that is laid . Mans spirit is immortal . Lives forever . Doesn't sleep

See why you need to throw away you man made theology which contradicts scripture.

Read this :

"To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life." - Romans 2:7

^^^

Simple English , only those who persist in doing good will be granted immortaility.

ayoku777:

Ofcourse its a true story. Jesus never gave the name of any character in stories that were parables. The parable of the sower, the prodigal son, the unfaithful steward, unprofitable servant, the rich fool, the husbandman and the labourers etc all had no names. He gave no single name in all these, coz they were not actual events, but parables.

This was the only story that Jesus was detailed enough to give a name, and his antecedents with other stories prove this extra information about the name is not random. To say its not true coz the rich man wasn't named is a lazy excuse. Maybe Jesus should have also given the names of the angels that carried Lazarus to Abraham's bosom.

You contradicted yourself on a number of points :

1. The name of the rich man was not mentioned.
2. The Bible from Genesis to the new testament never for once mentions that the dead go to Hell
3. The Hell in this scripture refers to Hades not Gehenna. Jesus always mentioned Gehenna when he talked about punishment
4. If we give you the benefit of doubt on the definition of soul, then a soul will not have hands or a tongue to taste and hold.


Mate, just do some study and stop this religious confusion.