Can someone give a clear defination of bible?
To the believers, is old testament still useful to christian?

why am asking this question is that, some peoples whenever you either tell them or argue something with them making particular reference to old testament,they will say,''that was in old testament'' is old testament not be used?

In the OT it says the following


Exodus 21: 17 And he that curseth his father, or his mother, shall surely be put to death.

Exodus 20: 13 Thou shalt not kill.


How would you know which one to follow? On what basis do you pick and choose?

Were as the old testament is contains relevant information about the history and back ground to christianity and a number of teachings their are still valid, as christians we are no longer under the old convenant which is centred around the laws of moses, with the death and resurrection of our Lord Jesus christ, we are under a new convenant and which is based on love and forgiveness, rather than the old covenant which was an eye for an eye and a tooth for a tooth

I have included the passages below to help you understand the christian view of the laws of the old testament. That not withstanding a lot of our pastors are responsible for causing this confusion about new/old testment, either through there own ignorance or deliberate omission.


Galatians 3
The Law and Faith in Christ
 

  1 Oh, foolish Galatians! Who has cast an evil spell on you? For the meaning of Jesus Christ’s death was made as clear to you as if you had seen a picture of his death on the cross. 2 Let me ask you this one question: Did you receive the Holy Spirit by obeying the law of Moses? Of course not! You received the Spirit because you believed the message you heard about Christ. 3 How foolish can you be? After starting your Christian lives in the Spirit, why are you now trying to become perfect by your own human effort? 4 Have you experienced[a] so much for nothing? Surely it was not in vain, was it?

  5[b] I ask you again, does God give you the Holy Spirit and work miracles among you because you obey the law? Of course not! It is because you believe the message you heard about Christ.[/b]   6 In the same way, “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.” 7 The real children of Abraham, then, are those who put their faith in God.

  8 What’s more, the Scriptures looked forward to this time when God would declare the Gentiles to be righteous because of their faith. God proclaimed this good news to Abraham long ago when he said, “All nations will be blessed through you.” 9 So all who put their faith in Christ share the same blessing Abraham received because of his faith.  

10[b] But those who depend on the law to make them right with God are under his curse, for the Scriptures say, “Cursed is everyone who does not observe and obey all the commands that are written in God’s Book of the Law.”11 So it is clear that no one can be made right with God by trying to keep the law. For the Scriptures say, “It is through faith that a righteous person has life[/b].” 12 This way of faith is very different from the way of law, which says, “It is through obeying the law that a person has life.”

  13 But Christ has rescued us from the curse pronounced by the law. When he was hung on the cross, he took upon himself the curse for our wrongdoing. For it is written in the Scriptures, “Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.”[g] 14 Through Christ Jesus, God has blessed the Gentiles with the same blessing he promised to Abraham, so that we who are believers might receive the promised[h] Holy Spirit through faith.

The Law and God’s Promise
 

  15 Dear brothers and sisters,[i] here’s an example from everyday life. Just as no one can set aside or amend an irrevocable agreement, so it is in this case. 16 God gave the promises to Abraham and his child.[j] And notice that the Scripture doesn’t say “to his children,[k]” as if it meant many descendants. Rather, it says “to his child”—and that, of course, means Christ. 17 This is what I am trying to say: The agreement God made with Abraham could not be canceled 430 years later when God gave the law to Moses. God would be breaking his promise. 18 For if the inheritance could be received by keeping the law, then it would not be the result of accepting God’s promise. But God graciously gave it to Abraham as a promise.

  19 Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised. God gave his law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people. 20 Now a mediator is helpful if more than one party must reach an agreement. But God, who is one, did not use a mediator when he gave his promise to Abraham.

  21 Is there a conflict, then, between God’s law and God’s promises?[l] Absolutely not! If the law could give us new life, we could be made right with God by obeying it. 22 But the Scriptures declare that we are all prisoners of sin, so we receive God’s promise of freedom only by believing in Jesus Christ.

God’s Children through Faith
 

  23 Before the way of faith in Christ was available to us, we were placed under guard by the law. We were kept in protective custody, so to speak, until the way of faith was revealed.  

24 Let me put it another way. The law was our guardian until Christ came; it protected us until we could be made right with God through faith. 25 And now that the way of faith has come, we no longer need the law as our guardian.

  26 For you are all children[m] of God through faith in Christ Jesus. 27 And all who have been united with Christ in baptism have put on Christ, like putting on new clothes.[n] 28 There is no longer Jew or Gentile,[o] slave or free, male and female. For you are all one in Christ Jesus. 29 And now that you belong to Christ, you are the true children[p] of Abraham. You are his heirs, and God’s promise to Abraham belongs to you.


Passage Galatians 5:4-6:
4 For if you are trying to make yourselves right with God by keeping the law, you have been cut off from Christ! You have fallen away from God’s grace.
  5 But we who live by the Spirit eagerly wait to receive by faith the righteousness God has promised to us. 6 For when we place our faith in Christ Jesus, there is no benefit in being circumcised or being uncircumcised. What is important is faith expressing itself in love.

Shaz:

The Old Testament is still valid but in some cases, there are rules that have overridden those in the OT. For instance, in the OT, there were some foods that were considered unclean and not fit for consumption by a Christian while in the NT, 1 Tim 4:3 and Roman 14 negates the OT.

so, in conclusion, the OT is valid but some few changes have been applied to some aspects in the NT.

Right on.
 
kufreabasi,
   The general rule is anything in the OT not negated or modified in the NT is still valid.

For example the Law is no longer valid becos Jesus gave us a new covenant.  

Another example, the 10 commandments, they are still valid becos they are basically echoed in instructions and teachings all thru the NT in various places.

JeSoul:

Right on.

kufreabasi,
The general rule is anything in the OT not negated or modified in the NT is still valid.

For example the Law is no longer valid because Jesus gave us a new covenant.

Another example, the 10 commandments, they are still valid because they are basically echoed in instructions and teachings all through the NT in various places.

JeSoul:

Right on.

kufreabasi,
The general rule is anything in the OT not negated or modified in the NT is still valid.

For example the Law is no longer valid because Jesus gave us a new covenant.

Another example, the 10 commandments, they are still valid because they are basically echoed in instructions and teachings all through the NT in various places.

Why are you ignoring the following passage from Jesus, in Matthew 5;

17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Pharisees were exacting sticklers for the law. Basically, Jesus is asking that you become more observant for the law that the Pharisees.

Why Why Why are you guys ignoring Jesus my holy Christ.

new testament is the reflection of old testament. some extract has been refined for human used.

every ''DON'T''  in the bible is seen as an instruction to be obeyed.
huxley note this.
if your father gives instruction,you have to obey else you face the consequence of it.but is you go on the right part without violating that instruction, then you are free.so dont be confused.

kufreabasi:

huxley note this.
if your father gives instruction,you have to obey else you face the consequence of it.but is you go on the right part without violating that instruction, then you are free.so don't be confused.

Rubbish! See how religion has made you incapable of intelligent thought.

Who do you mean by "your father"? Did you mean you biological father, or the big sky daddy (AKA god)?

Supposing your biological father were to order you to steal or kill - would you obey?

Or supposing God were to order you to kill ( like he order Moses, Joshua etc) - would you obey?

Why are you ignoring the following passage from Jesus, in Matthew 5;

17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Pharisees were exacting sticklers for the law. Basically, Jesus is asking that you become more observant for the law that the Pharisees.

Why Why Why are you guys ignoring Jesus my holy Christ

Thank you for this question. It is very brilliant. I would like to see how people answer this. I am very grateful for you asking about this. I brought it up and David jumped on my neck quoting other passages in the Bible.

I still stand that the Bible isn't contradictory but the interpretation of it by so called Christians is.

Please, There is one great strange man called MELCHISEDEC OT. My only problem with this man is that
1. He has no father.
2. He has no mothr.
3. No beginning.
4. No end.
Is'nt he another candidate for divinity?

huxley:


Why are you ignoring the following passage from Jesus, in Matthew 5;

17 "Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them. 18 I tell you the truth, until heaven and earth disappear, not the smallest letter, not the least stroke of a pen, will by any means disappear from the Law until everything is accomplished. 19 Anyone who breaks one of the least of these commandments and teaches others to do the same will be called least in the kingdom of heaven, but whoever practices and teaches these commands will be called great in the kingdom of heaven. 20 For I tell you that unless your righteousness surpasses that of the Pharisees and the teachers of the law, you will certainly not enter the kingdom of heaven.

Pharisees were exacting sticklers for the law. Basically, Jesus is asking that you become more observant for the law that the Pharisees.

Why Why Why are you guys ignoring Jesus my holy Christ.

~Lady~:

Thank you for this question. It is very brilliant. I would like to see how people answer this. I am very grateful for you asking about this. I brought it up and David jumped on my neck quoting other passages in the Bible.

I still stand that the Bible isn't contradictory but the interpretation of it by so called Christians is.

  Ignorance prevails aplenty here. and Lady I expected more from you, to use the word "brilliant" to describe huxley's enquiry, when you know he's only seeking to discredit christianity. Nevertheless against my better judgement I'll answer this so-called contradiction.
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them"  It's very simple really but i do not expect a non-christian to understand nor accept it. Jesus fulfilled the law by destroying it (is this simple statement too complex for your mind to comprehend?), replacing it with the New covenant, a covenant based on grace and faith in Christ. There is no contradiction here.

  Huxley, your carnal mind is not capable of understanding these kinds of things, and I'm not trying to sound condescending, it's just the plain truth.
1Cor2:13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

and Lady I expected more from you, to use the word "brilliant" to describe huxley's enquiry, when you know he's only seeking to discredit christianity

I applaud him bringing up the question, why? Because he approached it with thought. I do like it when people even try to discredit Christianity, it gives God a chance to do something great. God cannot be discredited.

I am a Christian but I also like thought. He gave a suitable rebuttal and I applaud it.

Jesus fulfilled the law by destroying it (is this simple statement too complex for your mind to comprehend?), replacing it with the New covenant, a covenant based on grace and faith in Christ. There is no contradiction here.

You're going to have to give more insight into it. How did he fulfill the law by destroying? What is the law? Don't forget Jesus is the law? Going by your response, did Jesus destroy himself?
The ark of the covenant is called that for what reason What was contained in the ark?
To my knowledge the covenant or law contained in the ark is the ten commandments. Did Jesus destroy the ten commandments? Keep in mind that these questions arose from your response. Explain your response to me please.

JeSoul:


Ignorance prevails aplenty here. and Lady I expected more from you, to use the word "brilliant" to describe huxley's enquiry, when you know he's only seeking to discredit christianity. Nevertheless against my better judgement I'll answer this so-called contradiction.
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them" It's very simple really but i do not expect a non-christian to understand nor accept it. Jesus fulfilled the law by destroying it (is this simple statement too complex for your mind to comprehend?), replacing it with the New covenant, a covenant based on grace and faith in Christ. There is no contradiction here.

Huxley, your carnal mind is not capable of understanding these kinds of things, and I'm not trying to sound condescending, it's just the plain truth.
1Cor2:13This is what we speak, not in words taught us by human wisdom but in words taught by the Spirit, expressing spiritual truths in spiritual words. The man without the Spirit does not accept the things that come from the Spirit of God, for they are foolishness to him, and he cannot understand them, because they are spiritually discerned.

As usual, our baby christians on nairaland keep demonstrating a poor understanding of the faith they claim to believe in. How do you fufill something by destroying it after you have said you did not come to abolish the law? The truth is that the law was not an end in itself, it was a means to an end. The law had a purpose which was to put man right with God, by Jesus saying he came to fufil the law means he came to fufill the purpose of the law and not the letters of it. By his death and ressurection he provided an alternative and better means of being put right with God thus fufilling the law. For a better understanding, i recommend you read the book of Galatians chapter 3(the whole chapter) this chapter sheds a lot of light on this topic. an excerpt from the chapter is included below.

Passage Galatians 3:19:

19 Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised. God gave his law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people.

KunleOshob:

As usual, our baby christians on nairaland keep demonstrating a poor understanding of the faith they claim to believe in. How do you fufill something by destroying it after you have said you did not come to abolish the law? The truth is that the law was not an end in itself, it was a means to an end. The law had a purpose which was to put man right with God, by Jesus saying he came to fufil the law means he came to fufill the purpose of the law and not the letters of it. By his death and ressurection he provided an alternative and better means of being put right with God thus fufilling the law. For a better understanding, i recommend you read the book of Galatians chapter 3(the whole chapter) this chapter sheds a lot of light on this topic. an excerpt from the chapter is included below.

Passage Galatians 3:19:

19 Why, then, was the law given? It was given alongside the promise to show people their sins. But the law was designed to last only until the coming of the child who was promised. God gave his law through angels to Moses, who was the mediator between God and the people.

Gosh kunle, I am slowly losing any respect I once had for you. Your condescending attitude is repelling, like I asked you before do you think you're the only one that does research and has studied? do you think you're somehow better and more knowledgeable than everyone else here? That you yourself after all your biblical gymnastics on NL don't understand this very simple fact. I could further engage in this discussion but I won't becos I know it will not be fruitful and I honestly have better things to do. . .

_{this is why I prefer the sports forum}

~Lady~:

I applaud him bringing up the question, why? Because he approached it with thought. I do like it when people even try to discredit Christianity, it gives God a chance to do something great. God cannot be discredited.

I am a Christian but I also like thought. He gave a suitable rebuttal and I applaud it.

  okay thanks for explaining, at least I understand why you said it.

You're going to have to give more insight into it. How did he fulfill the law by destroying? What is the law? Don't forget Jesus is the law? Going by your response, did Jesus destroy himself?

  I will be glad to, I am glad you asked.

Lets look at the scriptures that some say contradict each other:

Matthew 5:17
"Do not think that I have come to abolish the Law or the Prophets; I have not come to abolish them but to fulfill them.

Ephesians 2:15
by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new man out of the two, thus making peace,

Romans 10:4
Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes.

Galatians 3:19
What, then, was the purpose of the law? It was added because of transgressions until the Seed to whom the promise referred had come.

  So let us ask this question why would the scriptures say in Mt that Jesus did not come to destroy the law, BUT then in Ephesians it says He abolished in His flesh the law?

   It is because the Law was not just simply destroyed, its fulfillment was to be destroyed! Do you get it now? So when Jesus said He came to fulfill the law, He was in essence saying the fulfillment of it was its destruction or abolishment or replacement etc.
 
  This is why other parts of the NT talk about how the law is no longer applicable or no longer applies to us. Becos if you took Jesus words at face value in Mt you would have a contradiction - just like the carnal minds here that are trying to understand these spiritual truths that are beyong their capability.

The ark of the covenant is called that for what reason What was contained in the ark?

Not sure what you're trying to ask here, please explain more.

To my knowledge the covenant or law contained in the ark is the ten commandments. Did Jesus destroy the ten commandments?

  I responded to this earlier on this thread
   

The general rule is anything in the OT not negated or modified in the NT is still valid.

For example the Law is no longer valid because Jesus gave us a new covenant. 

Another example, the 10 commandments, they are still valid because they are basically echoed in instructions and teachings all through the NT in various places.

I hope these sufficiently answers your questions.
Cheers!

JeSoul:

just like the carnal minds here that are trying to understand these spiritual truths that are beyong their capability.

Some people on Nairaland are now assuming they are spiritually minded

Lady evidently doesnt understand a jot, were you to quote the entire bible she still wont understand anything about the place of the OT law in the dispensation of grace.

Simply read the book of Hebrews, brother Paul did a perfect explanation there. It would make sense if you all did more than cling desperately to one or two misunderstood verses. As for applauding Huxley's write up, even Olabowale the muslim knows better.

KunleOshob, Jesus said . . . in three days i will destroy this temple . . . what do you think He meant there?

davidylan:

KunleOshob, Jesus said . . . in three days i will destroy this temple . . . what do you think He meant there?

Point of correction bros, what jesus actually said was this "I would destroy the temple and re-build it in three days" The temple in this regard is Jesus christ himself and he was speaking about his death and ressurection. Next question please

KunleOshob:

Some people on Nairaland are now assuming they are spiritually minded

Your true character is showing clearer with each post.

I was actually refering to huxley as he's the one who asked the question and is the only one who does not profess to be a christian on this thread. But if your conscience bothered you when you read that, that should be a clear indication to you something is wrong.

Being spiritually minded[b] is not something a christian attains[/b], but rather it comes naturally when they are indwelt with the Holyspirit. Every true christian is spiritually minded, it is the level of maturity in Christ that varies.

KunleOshob:

Point of correction bros, what jesus actually said was this "I would destroy the temple and re-build it in three days" The temple in this regard is Jesus christ himself and he was speaking about his death and ressurection. Next question please

I wasnt making a direct quote and you fully understood the verse i was alluding to.
I wasnt asking a question but merely emphasising the word "destroy" as JeSoul used when talking about Christ "destroying" the OT law.

Too many pple overly interested in showing their "mastery" of the scriptures. What a shame. The letter killeth . . .

@davidylan
Anyway the bible is clear that Jesus came to fufil the law, it is our various understanding that varies. The true meaning of that staement  explained in my earlier post with scripture to back in up, unlike some people just out to defend their allusions without biblical bases.

JeSoul:


Being spiritually minded is not something a christian attains, but rather it comes naturally when they are indwelt with the Holyspirit. Every true christian is spiritually minded, it is the level of maturity in Christ that varies.

Unfortunately true christians are almost an extinct breed today. what we have are self righteous people, sects, religionist and denominations claiming to be christians.

KunleOshob:

@debosky
Anyway the bible is clear that Jesus came to fufil the law, it is our various understanding that varies. The true meaning of that staement explained in my earlier post with scripture to back in up, unlike some people just out to defend their allusions without biblical bases.

100% in agreement.