MATTEW 16:28

28 " Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His
kingdom."

Jesus was reffering to his disciples above ^^^. They did die without witnessing his second coming

1. Does it mean our Lord Jesus is a Liar?

2. Could he be reffering to another 2nd coming?

I've been doing a biblical research on this topic for a week now without any satisfactory answers.

I need scriptural based clarifications please.

I actually thought you know more than that in the above.

Goshen360: I actually thought you know more than that in the above.

Brother Goshen were have you been? Welcome back!
You know we are learning everyday.... No one person have attained have attained perfect knowledge.

This reference is not to his final coming to judge, but to His spiritual coming to establish His kingdom.


This was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost Mark 9:1

. . Till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power, . . . thats the coming of the Son of man in his kingdom with power . Act 1:8, Luke 24:49, Act 2:1

I hope i have cleared your doubt. .

Yooguyz:

Brother Goshen were have you been? Welcome back!
You know we are learning everyday.... No one person have attained have attained perfect knowledge.

I actually haven't been anywhere, just I post less cos of tight schedule this season. Okay, I heard what you said so let us walk through it together. I can as well just tell you the answer but I think walking through it together will help you greatly.

First, remove the word "second" because that scripture didn't mention "second" coming, you are the one that "understood" as "second" and that's what brought about as if it looks like Christ was lying in that verse.

Can you figure out something on that verse with the above info now?

Goshen360:
Can you figure out something on that verse with the above info now?

hmmm....
"...coming in his kingdom".

I'ld like to hear more of your thoughts on the issue.

kamura: This reference is not to his final coming to judge, but to His spiritual coming to establish His kingdom.


This was fulfilled on the day of Pentecost Mark 9:1

. . Till they have seen the kingdom of God come with power, . . . thats the coming of the Son of man in his kingdom with power . Act 1:8, Luke 24:49, Act 2:1

I hope i have cleared your doubt. .

gööd attempt at the question.
Buh those verses above didn't talk about any coming ^^

could you expantiate more?
I appreciate your answers

Yooguyz: MATTEW 16:28

28 " Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His
kingdom."

Jesus was reffering to his disciples above ^^^. They did die without witnessing his second coming

1. Does it mean our Lord Jesus is a Liar?

2. Could he be reffering to another 2nd coming?

I've been doing a biblical research on this topic for a week now without any satisfactory answers.

I need scriptural based clarifications please.

Jesus was an apocalyptic Jewish prophet, he came from a long line of Jewish apocalyptic prophets, like John the Baptist before him (Jesus believes John the Baptist was the greatest man ever to live) and Jesus Ben Ananias after him (who was hauled before the Roman procurator) Jesus believed the end of the world was imminent however, like all apocalyptic prophets he got it spectacularly wrong. Here are the words of Jesus from our earliest source Mark :

"truly I tell you some of you standing here will not taste of death before they have seen the kingdom of God having come in power’’ Mark 9:1,

“Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass before all these things take place” Mark 13:30

Jesus’ core teaching was the imminent arrival of the kingdom of God, all his other teachings were a derivative or corollary of this message. He believed God was going to perform a mighty act of salvation of his people heralded by the coming of the agent of change “ the son of Man” and that quite a lot of people would be around to witness it. His disciples believed they would “rule” at the right hand side of Jesus in the coming kingdom, each disciple at the head of a tribe of Israel (hence they joined his ministry)

Apparently this is what the Apostle Paul believed too….initially, here are his words; in his earliest recorded letter to the Thessalonians written around 49CE less than twenty years after Jesus’ death (Thess 4:15-17)

“ For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord by no means will precede those who have died………then we who are alive, who are left will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air”

It is clear that the early church that existed after the death of Jesus was apocalyptic in nature. Apostle Paul fully expected the imminent arrival of the Kingdom of God in his lifetime, and quite clearly expected to be amongst those to be “caught up in the clouds” Indeed he asks his congregations not to better themselves, not to bother to get married if they weren’t already…the implications being, there was no point !

Luke writing with the benefit of hind-sight several years later makes the necessary adjustments to Mark’s account to rectify the anomaly of Christians being open to ridicule since the Kingdom of God had not arrived as expected hence: (Luke 9:27)” truly I tell you there are those who will not taste of death until they see the kingdom of God”…..subtly modified from Mark's statement (Luke 11:20) …”the Kingdom has already come to you” and (Luke 17:21) “ among you “.

When Jesus is brought before the Sanhedrin he tells the priests in Mark (14:62)
“you will see the son of man seated at the right hand of power and coming with the clouds of heaven”

Luke writing many years after the death of the priests knowing full well the priests saw no such thing modifies Mark’s words,
“from now on the son of man will be seated at the right hand of the power of God” (Luke 22:69)

Spot the difference.

Jesus is the Truth, how can He lie? Say you do not understand.

@sarassins sometimes I wonder where you guys get this stuffs from, you should be careful with the kind stuffs you're reading.
@op as someone said earlier, its the coming of the salvation by Grace that automatically makes us citizens of His kingdom, Ephesians 1:2-3, Hebrews 12:22-23, that's what Jesus was referring to. The Him coming with is kingdom was talking about His resurrection from the dead. I think I should say this, Our Salvation was not won on the cross, that was just the beginning, but was finally completed when Jesus ascended to offer His blood in heaven and sat on the right hand of the Father, with the confirmation being in Acts 2:1-4, when the Holy Ghost was given.
Someone said Jesus said John was the greatest human? Nope, John was the greatest of the old time prophets, simply because he was alive to see his prophecy of Jesus come to pass .Shalom.

@noblefada, why don't you point out the exact statement(s) or bible references in my post that you believe is\are wrong?

Ok since you insist

Sarassin:

Jesus was an apocalyptic Jewish prophet, he came from a long line of Jewish apocalyptic prophets, like John the Baptist before him (Jesus believes John the Baptist was the greatest man ever to live) and Jesus Ben Ananias after him (who was hauled before the Roman procurator) Jesus believed the end of the world was imminent however, like all apocalyptic prophets he got it spectacularly wrong. Here are the words of Jesus from our earliest source Mark :

"truly I tell you some of you standing here will not taste of death before they have seen the kingdom of God having come in power’’ Mark 9:1,

“Truly I tell you, this generation will not pass before all these things take place” Mark 13:30

Jesus’ core teaching was the imminent arrival of the kingdom of God, all his other teachings were a derivative or corollary of this message. He believed God was going to perform a mighty act of salvation of his people heralded by the coming of the agent of change “ He did not believe in a change, He was the change the son of Man” and that quite a lot of people would be around to witness it. His disciples believed they would “rule” at the right hand side of Jesus in the coming kingdom, each disciple at the head of a tribe of Israel (hence they joined his ministry)

Apparently this is what the Apostle Paul believed too ….initially, here are his words; in his earliest recorded letter to the Thessalonians written around 49CE less than twenty years after Jesus’ death (Thess 4:15-17)

“ For this we declare to you by the word of the Lord, that we who are alive, who are left until the coming of the Lord by no means will precede those who have died………then we who are alive, who are left will be caught up in the clouds together with them to meet the Lord in the air”

It is clear that the early church that existed after the death of Jesus was apocalyptic in nature. Apostle Paul fully expected the imminent arrival of the Kingdom of God in his lifetime, and quite clearly expected to be amongst those to be “caught up in the clouds” Indeed he asks his congregations not to better themselves, not to bother to get married if they weren’t already…the implications being, there was no point !

Luke writing with the benefit of hind-sight several years later makes the necessary adjustments to Mark’s account to rectify the anomaly of Christians being open to ridicule since the Kingdom of God had not arrived as expected hence: (Luke 9:27)” truly I tell you there are those who will not taste of death until they see the kingdom of God”…..subtly modified from Mark's statement (Luke 11:20) …”the Kingdom has already come to you” and (Luke 17:21) “ among you “.

When Jesus is brought before the Sanhedrin he tells the priests in Mark (14:62)
“you will see the son of man seated at the right hand of power and coming with the clouds of heaven”

Luke writing many years after the death of the priests knowing full well the priests saw no such thing modifies Mark’s words,
“from now on the son of man will be seated at the right hand of the power of God” (Luke 22:69)

Spot the difference.

All the bolded and some beneath those, kept wondering where u got them from?

@noblefada

Read Matthew 11:9-11 " truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist....."

Jesus believed the kingdom of God was imminent, i.e the end of the world as he and his contemporaries knew it.
In the gospel of Mark, Jesus makes a third person reference to the advent of the "Son of Man" who would be seen arriving on the clouds. NOT he.

Apostle Paul is our first christian author, writing even before the author of the gospel of Mark, he clearly believes the kingdom of God was imminent based on the passage I quoted you from his early writings to the Thessalonians.

Sarassin: @noblefada

Read Matthew 11:9-11 " truly I say to you, among those born of women there has not arisen anyone greater than John the Baptist....."

Jesus believed the kingdom of God was imminent, i.e the end of the world as he and his contemporaries knew it.
In the gospel of Mark, Jesus makes a third person reference to the advent of the "Son of Man" who would be seen arriving on the clouds. NOT he.

Apostle Paul is our first christian author, writing even before the author of the gospel of Mark, he clearly believes the kingdom of God was imminent based on the passage I quoted you from his early writings to the Thessalonians.

You see the problem I've with you guys, you come boldly to write on what you know little or nothing about. You probably did not read the Matt 11:9-11 you quoted, NKJV
But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. [10] For this is he of whom it is written: ' Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, Who will prepare Your way before You.' [11] "Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. You probably did not see the prophet part! Ok let me quote another place
Luke 7:26-28 NKJV
But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. [27] This is he of whom it is written: ' Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, Who will prepare Your way before You.' [28] For I say to you, among those born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.". I guess you didn't see where Jesus called him the least in the kingdom! Ok let me explain that to you, from the first prophecy of Christ in Gen 1:15, several people kept prophesying about His coming, Jacob did, Joseph, Moses, David, the prophets of which Isaiah was chief of them until John the Baptist, only John finally saw Jesus in the flesh, but he became least in the Kingdom because he died before the resurrection of Jesus.
As for Jesus pointing to someone else, that's very laughable, because several times in the bible Jesus kept saying he was the Christ, one of such places is John 4:25-26.
On the issue of Paul, simply reading the book of 2nd Thessalonians would have clarified that.
My candid advice to u @sarahssins & anyone else, if u can take time to read controversial materials on the bible by folks with biased and prejudiced intentions, pls try and read the book itself, so at least you don't sound like an intelligent ignoramus. Shalom

noblefada:
You see the problem I've with you guys, you come boldly to write on what you know little or nothing about. You probably did not read the Matt 11:9-11 you quoted, NKJV
But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. [10] For this is he of whom it is written: ' Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, Who will prepare Your way before You.' [11] "Assuredly, I say to you, among those born of women there has not risen one greater than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of heaven is greater than he. You probably did not see the prophet part! Ok let me quote another place
Luke 7:26-28 NKJV
But what did you go out to see? A prophet? Yes, I say to you, and more than a prophet. [27] This is he of whom it is written: ' Behold, I send My messenger before Your face, Who will prepare Your way before You.' [28] For I say to you, among those born of women there is not a greater prophet than John the Baptist; but he who is least in the kingdom of God is greater than he.". I guess you didn't see where Jesus called him the least in the kingdom! Ok let me explain that to you, from the first prophecy of Christ in Gen 1:15, several people kept prophesying about His coming, Jacob did, Joseph, Moses, David, the prophets of which Isaiah was chief of them until John the Baptist, only John finally saw Jesus in the flesh, but he became least in the Kingdom because he died before the resurrection of Jesus.
As for Jesus pointing to someone else, that's very laughable, because several times in the bible Jesus kept saying he was the Christ, one of such places is John 4:25-26.
On the issue of Paul, simply reading the book of 2nd Thessalonians would have clarified that.
My candid advice to u @sarahssins & anyone else, if u can take time to read controversial materials on the bible by folks with biased and prejudiced intentions, pls try and read the book itself, so at least you don't sound like an intelligent ignoramus. Shalom

Now you are just waffling.

The endless revised versions of the Christian bible is the bane of the religion, The words of Matthew are clear in the KJV. Luke has enhanced Matthew’s words. In any event the point I was making was that Jesus paid John the Baptist high compliment indeed, one apocalypticist to another, so far, at least Christians have not invented prophets who weren’t born of women.

Jesus uses the term “Son of Man” to great effect, on occasion he uses the term to describe himself i.e when he says (according to the gospel writers) “Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head”. It is also obvious he uses the term to describe a universal judge who would be heralded by angels descending from the clouds to right the wrongs of the earth, this is an allusion to a vision of the apocalypse shared by all Jewish apocalyptic prophets, based mainly on the nightmarish vision contained in Daniel 7:17-27, also 1 Enoch 69

Paul wrote 1 Thessalonians less than twenty years after Jesus died, even before the gospel of Mark, his views then reflected early Christian beliefs and expectations, the fact that he later modified his Christology in later years does not negate the prevailing views of his earlier writing.

No-one solicited your advice, instead of indulging in petty name calling, if you have anything worthwhile to say why don’t you deal with the premise of my post ?, i.e (Mark 1:15) “The time is filled up and the kingdom of God is almost here……”

Where is the kingdom? And please let us have no talk of a day being a thousand years, as you can see from Mark 1:15, Jesus said “time’s up “

Sarassin:

Now you are just waffling.

The endless revised versions of the Christian bible is the bane of the religion, The words of Matthew are clear in the KJV. Luke has enhanced Matthew’s words. In any event the point I was making was that Jesus paid John the Baptist high compliment indeed, one apocalypticist to another, so far, at least Christians have not invented prophets who weren’t born of women.

Jesus uses the term “Son of Man” to great effect, on occasion he uses the term to describe himself i.e when he says (according to the gospel writers) “Son of Man has nowhere to lay his head”. It is also obvious he uses the term to describe a universal judge who would be heralded by angels descending from the clouds to right the wrongs of the earth, this is an allusion to a vision of the apocalypse shared by all Jewish apocalyptic prophets, based mainly on the nightmarish vision contained in Daniel 7:17-27, also 1 Enoch 69

Paul wrote 1 Thessalonians less than twenty years after Jesus died, even before the gospel of Mark, his views then reflected early Christian beliefs and expectations, the fact that he later modified his Christology in later years does not negate the prevailing views of his earlier writing.

No-one solicited your advice, instead of indulging in petty name calling, if you have anything worthwhile to say why don’t you deal with the premise of my post ?, i.e (Mark 1:15) “The time is filled up and the kingdom of God is almost here……”

Where is the kingdom? And please let us have no talk of a day being a thousand years, as you can see from Mark 1:15, Jesus said “time’s up “

I'm sorry if you feel offended, because that was not meant for you because I'll not do that, I was only trying to point out intelligence based on a wrong information, you know that someone can be very vocal or fluent, but he not saying anything that make sense.
Now to the issue, first it was they copied from Mark, now it is Luke that amplified Mathew! you can see those excuses don't hold water. Again u missed on the fact that in that same verse, Jesus still referred to him as the least in the kingdom? ?
Again you should know the history of a book, it will aid your understanding. Paul did not start by writing letters to believers, no he taught them thoroughly and only wrote to keep them in remembrance of what he had already taught them. The case of the Thessalonians was that they misunderstood what Paul was saying, so when Paul found out he had to write them again to clarify the misconceptions, that was the major reason of him writing 2 Thessalonians, pls you will do well if read both books.
Finally, the kingdom is the kingdom of Christ, which is Salvation by Grace through faith in Jesus Christ, that's what all we Christians have now. Shalom

noblefada:
I'm sorry if you feel offended, because that was not meant for you because I'll not do that, I was only trying to point out intelligence based on a wrong information, you know that someone can be very vocal or fluent, but he not saying anything that make sense.
Now to the issue, first it was they copied from Mark, now it is Luke that amplified Mathew! you can see those excuses don't hold water. Again u missed on the fact that in that same verse, Jesus still referred to him as the least in the kingdom? ?
Again you should know the history of a book, it will aid your understanding. Paul did not start by writing letters to believers, no he taught them thoroughly and only wrote to keep them in remembrance of what he had already taught them. The case of the Thessalonians was that they misunderstood what Paul was saying, so when Paul found out he had to write them again to clarify the misconceptions, that was the major reason of him writing 2 Thessalonians, pls you will do well if read both books.
Finally, the kingdom is the kingdom of Christ, which is Salvation by Grace through faith in Jesus Christ, that's what all we Christians have now. Shalom

Thank you for your reply and no offence taken.

In my view Mark is the earliest writer, biblical scholars agree that Mark was the source for Matthew as well as Luke, plus of course the "Q" source. Luke wrote his narrative on his own understanding, he admitted as much. Yes Jesus refers to John as "least in the kingdom" but it does not detract from my point that nevertheless Jesus considered John a "great" man, and personally i see nothing wrong with that.

The objective of using 1 Thessalonians is to illustrate Paul's beliefs at a particular point in time which corresponded to what Jesus believed and taught in his lifetime.

I respect your beliefs but I don't agree with your definition of the Kingdom of God, we can agree to disagree.

Yooguyz: MATTEW 16:28

28 " Truly I say to you, there are some of those who are standing here who will not taste death until they see the Son of Man coming in His
kingdom."

Jesus was reffering to his disciples above ^^^. They did die without witnessing his second coming

1. Does it mean our Lord Jesus is a Liar?

2. Could he be reffering to another 2nd coming?

I've been doing a biblical research on this topic for a week now without any satisfactory answers.

I need scriptural based clarifications please.

he never said it in the first place..
They are all intelligently made up stories

Sarassin:

Thank you for your reply and no offence taken.

In my view Mark is the earliest writer, biblical scholars agree that Mark was the source for Matthew as well as Luke, plus of course the "Q" source. Luke wrote his narrative on his own understanding, he admitted as much. Yes Jesus refers to John as "least in the kingdom" but it does not detract from my point that nevertheless Jesus considered John a "great" man, and personally i see nothing wrong with that.

The objective of using 1 Thessalonians is to illustrate Paul's beliefs at a particular point in time which corresponded to what Jesus believed and taught in his lifetime.

I respect your beliefs but I don't agree with your definition of the Kingdom of God, we can agree to disagree.

Ok