Shikena: Sorry, you can't make HND equal to a Bachelor's through the backdoor. This PDP ogboju won't work. You know what you signed for right from the admission process when you opted for a Polytechnic and not a University. Nigerians should stop bastardizing everything just for the sake of it. If you want a Bachelor's degree IN NIGERIA, then go to a university. The admission process is not even near the same level. The curriculum is different in content and in context - and in fields like Engineering, a Technologist (HND) is not an Engineer (B.Sc/B.Tech/B.Eng). If you are capable of being an Engineer and you opted to go and become a Technologist, that is your choice.
Engineers are at the highest level of the pyramid in Engineering profession - and they could be designers, researches, project leaders etc - they are behind the design and management of the Engineering process making use of the lower level professionals to develop better processes;
Followed by Technologists (HND) - they are at the highest level of the practical processes in the Engineering field;
and then by Technicians (OND/Technical College graduates/Vocation school graduates/Machinists/Welders etc) - they handle the practical processes.
At the lowest level are the artisans - lower level welders, machinists etc without any formal education. Mostly these are the best hands in terms of 'practical' processes.
This was defined by COREN a long time ago and it's still the case.

#GBAM

zebra: u mean u hate technologists? It means u're not a good engineer. Do u do engineering work without technologists? Do u implement ur designs by urself? U have to work with them, they are part of the engineering team.

On point.
A Lot of people don't understand the relationship between an engineer, a technologist and a technician.
Universities award B.eng, B.sc etc,
Colleges and polytechnic award 2yrs OND which is equivalent to graduate diplomas who are referred to as technicians, 3 or 4yrs co-op/I.T HND which is equivalent to advanced graduate diplomas who are referred to as technologists.

Technologists operator and maintain while engineers can do the job of both the technician and technologist,he can also design which is the main advantage.

In conclusion, yes, b.eng or bsc is higher than hnd or Ond. It is niether the same nor equivalent.
N.b unilag can not award B.eng because it is not a university of science and technology like Futo or Esut.

delux$:

highly unlikely. you learn the basic before the advanced not both at the same time

I'm telling you.
1st year
1st semester - Algebra(basic and advanced)
2nd semester - Calculus and coordinate geometry.

Didn't even know it was divided until i saw the curriculum for mechanical Engineering in a polytechnic

Relax guys,

From what I have seen from the arguments here, everything still boil down at typical Naija mentality. Some with university degree are trying hard to rubbish HND so they can feel important with their university degrees, whereas we should be discussing the real issues, in the real sense of things, an HND certificate might be more relevant and regarded than even a BSC depending on specialization.

HND is equivalent to BSC in terms of level of education achieved. Hnd graduates have attained the same level of education as BSC graduates the only difference is that u have both studied for different purposes. Nigerian government needs to restructure and improve our educational system because believe me guys, even university education in Nigeria is absolute crap, it is just funny that some university folks are talking down poly folks. One thing u don't know is that u just think u are better cos the society makes u think u are better. Whether university or poly, u are all products of an archaic dysfunctional educational system. Those who have got some good education abroad can tell me if I am lying.

Guys, pls lets move beyond discrimination it ruins as us as a ppl. The question we should be asking here is why do we have polytechnics and universities? what are their responsibilities in the job market. Come and look at sectors like construction, oil and gas, engineering etc in North America. The guys from technical colleges grab the most opportunities. In fact the industry needs them the most and they earn big. Much bigger than what any white collar buddy can earn in several years of working. So guys instead of discriminating and condemning some ppl, may be we should be asking our government to put our education in the right place. And provide environment for industries that will absorb them.

Omila007:

On point.
A Lot of people don't understand the relationship between an engineer, a technologist and a technician.
Universities award B.eng, B.sc etc,
Colleges and polytechnic award 2yrs OND which is equivalent to graduate diplomas who are referred to as technicians, 3 or 4yrs co-op/I.T HND which is equivalent to advanced graduate diplomas who are referred to as technologists.

Technologists operator and maintain while engineers can do the job of both the technician and technologist,he can also design which is the main advantage.

In conclusion, yes, b.eng or bsc is higher than hnd or Ond. It is niether the same nor equivalent.
N.b unilag can not award B.eng because it is not a university of science and technology like Futo or Esut.

#GBAM

ebichy: What is d argument about, ђέή we all know that HND is far better than BSC in experience, aΩ̴̩̩̩̥d̶̲̥̅̊ skills. Plz BSC holders don't use Nigeria as a shield to cover the fact that 4 years is not enough to fit in, in our country Nigeria. The fact remains that FG does not knw anything about development in education so let's stop this talk aΩ̴̩̩̩̥d̶̲̥̅̊ face it D̶̲̥̅̊A̶̲̅τ̲̅ both r gud but HND has better products to offer. I remember during my one year Industrial Attachment, a BSE holder could not draft a Formal letter! ​»̶-̶̶ †̥ånKz-►!

I can bet u don't hav proof to d poo u jst said.u jst following old sayings of "poly gradjs are better"rabbish tlk.tins change u knw,most lecturers frm poly's upgrade to uni's or hav dreams of upgrading therefore contributing more to uni's dis dayz.pls uni gradj dis dayz are trying.EOD.

Anvaller: Relax guys,

From what I have seen from the arguments here, everything still boil down at typical Naija mentality. Some with university degree are trying hard to rubbish HND so they can feel important with their university degrees, whereas we should be discussing the real issues, in the real sense of things, an HND certificate might be more relevant and regarded than even a BSC depending on specialization.

HND is equivalent to BSC in terms of level of education achieved. Hnd graduates have attained the same level of education as BSC graduates the only difference is that u have both studied for different purposes. Nigerian government needs to restructure and improve our educational system because believe me guys, even university education in Nigeria is absolute crap, it is just funny that some university folks are talking down poly folks. One thing u don't know is that u just think u are better cos the society makes u think u are better. Whether university or poly, u are all products of an archaic dysfunctional educational system. Those who have got some good education abroad can tell me if I am lying.

Guys, pls lets move beyond discrimination it ruins as us as a ppl. The question we should be asking here is why do we have polytechnics and universities? what are their responsibilities in the job market. Come and look at sectors like construction, oil and gas, engineering etc in North America. The guys from technical colleges grab the most opportunities. In fact the industry needs them the most and they earn big. Much bigger than what any white collar buddy can earn in several years of working. So guys instead of discriminating and condemning some ppl, may be we should be asking our government to put our education in the right place.

On the contrary, HND holders are trying to feel too important. Every Engineer should understand and appreciate the different levels and cadres of the engineering family. HND holders don't want to accept the obvious (they are technologists).

Bottom line: everyone is important in the engineering FAMILY

No, destino, we are not running the UK system at all. I am telling you this as someone who has two UK degrees.

destino24:

Bros, you do realise its the same UK system we are running, right?
UK has since changed that system.

#bizfirst#:
Nigerians are always confused and are found of attaching value where none exists! To the best of my knowledge, polytechnic graduates beat their university counterparts in vocational and technical courses any day, any time. The universities should even be proud they are equated to polytechnics...SMH!

It's appears so because we are in an under developed country where we do more of operation, implementation and maintenance
Which is the job of technologists from polytechnic and there curriculum is designed to achieve that.
Our engineer's can hardly create nor design with our educational curriculum lagging far behind that of the developed world.
Imagine for Fortran 77 a programming language of 1977 still in our curriculum.
We still do manual engineering drawing while we have all kinds of Cad software(autocad,solidwork, master cam, inventor) etc out there being implemented in curriculums around the world.

Anvaller: Relax guys,

From what I have seen from the arguments here, everything still boil down at typical Naija mentality. Some with university degree are trying hard to rubbish HND so they can feel important with their university degrees, whereas we should be discussing the real issues, in the real sense of things, an HND certificate might be more relevant and regarded than even a BSC depending on specialization.

HND is equivalent to BSC in terms of level of education achieved. Hnd graduates have attained the same level of education as BSC graduates the only difference is that u have both studied for different purposes. Nigerian government needs to restructure and improve our educational system because believe me guys, even university education in Nigeria is absolute crap, it is just funny that some university folks are talking down poly folks. One thing u don't know is that u just think u are better cos the society makes u think u are better. Whether university or poly, u are all products of an archaic dysfunctional educational system. Those who have got some good education abroad can tell me if I am lying.

Guys, pls lets move beyond discrimination it ruins as us as a ppl. The question we should be asking here is why do we have polytechnics and universities? what are their responsibilities in the job market. Come and look at sectors like construction, oil and gas, engineering etc in North America. The guys from technical colleges grab the most opportunities. In fact the industry needs them the most and they earn big. Much bigger than what any white collar buddy can earn in several years of working. So guys instead of discriminating and condemning some ppl, may be we should be asking our government to put our education in the right place. And provide environment for industries that will absorb them.

A mature reactn u got thr bro

look let not fool ourselves if u graduate from a polytechnic u are not an engineer o u are a technologist and mind u HND no be degree o na certificate with your HND when you apply for direct entry u would come into 200 level as far as uniben is concerned let not decieve ourselves u would understand better when u register with NSE and coren

#bizfirst#:
Nigerians are always confused and are found of attaching value where none exists! To the best of my knowledge, polytechnic graduates beat their university counterparts in vocational and technical courses any day, any time. The universities should even be proud they are equated to polytechnics...SMH!

It's appears so because we are in an under developed country where we do more of operation, implementation and maintenance
Which is the job of technologists from polytechnic and there curriculum is designed to achieve that.
Our engineer's can hardly create nor design with our educational curriculum is lagging far behind that of the developed world.
Imagine Fortran 77 a programming language of 1977 still in our curriculum.
We still do manual engineering drawing while we have all kinds of Cad software(autocad,solidwork, master cam, inventor) etc out there being implemented in curriculums around the world.

hyelhira: No, destino, we are not running the UK system at all. I am telling you this as someoyuwho has two UK degrees.

Bro, you might wanna read my post properly before quoting me,
UK initiated the system we are running, BUT THEY HAVE SINCE CHANGED THAT SYSTEM IN THEIR OWN COUNTRY. Nigeria has not changed the system

slimmboss: I can bet u don't hav proof to d poo u jst said.u jst following old sayings of "poly gradjs are better"rabbish tlk.tins change u knw,most lecturers frm poly's upgrade to uni's or hav dreams of upgrading therefore contributing more to uni's dis dayz.pls uni gradj dis dayz are trying.EOD.

If a uni student cld nt draft a formal leta,is dt d fault of d university? Does dt also mean u can neva find a poly student who cant draft a formal leta?

Omila007:

It's appears so because we are in an under developed country where we do more of operation, implementation and maintenance
Which is the job of technologists from polytechnic and there curriculum is designed to achieve that.
Our engineer's can hardly create nor design with our educational curriculum lagging far behind that of the developed world.
Imagine for Fortran 77 a programming language of 1977 still in our curriculum.
We still do manual engineering drawing while we have all kinds of Cad software(autocad,solidwork, master cam, inventor) etc out there being implemented in curriculums around the world.

Thank u pal, these are the stuffs I think we should be concerned about and this is exactly what was on my mind when I wrote this in my earlier comment:
"it is just funny that some university folks are talking down poly folks. One thing u don't know is that u just think u are better cos the society makes u think u are better. Whether university or poly, u are all products of an archaic dysfunctional educational system"

dejt4u:
so wat are u nw clamourin for? Since they are nt d same in any means, they shldnt be d same in certification.. Bsc,Ba,Btech nd Bedu can neva be d same thing as HND in Nigeria..

He said equivalent,huh

abacus Cm: I am both B.sc and HND graduate.I discovered that HND courses are more technical and practical than B.sc courses.Both suppose to be equivalent and this discrimination should stop henceforth.

did u mean and and bsc

abacus Cm: I am both B.sc and HND graduate.I discovered that HND courses are more technical and practical than B.sc courses.Both suppose to be equivalent and this discrimination should stop henceforth.

did u mean ond and bsc

destino24:

Why you come comot all that your gibberish?

I submitted it accidentally while still typing. It has been reposted.

Anvaller:

Thank u pal, these are the stuffs I think we should be concerned about and this is exactly what was on my mind when I wrote this in my earlier comment:
"it is just funny that some university folks are talking down poly folks. One thing u don't know is that u just think u are better cos the society makes u think u are better. Whether university or poly, u are all products of an archaic dysfunctional educational system"

Everyone knows we have serious issues in our educational system (from primary to tertiary).

That said, a typical university graduate is better than a typical polytechnic graduate. This has nothing to do with the society. This is based on laid down rules of operation of this different cadres

Y is dis issue streamlined 2 jst engineerin, its nt d only course offered in Nija's tertiary institutns. 2 both parties nw,does ur argument hold water when considering other courses in various faculties? My take is dt if both shld be made equal then there curricula shld be made same,also poly lecturers shld include enough doctors & professors too jst lik in d universities bt by dt,i blive d purpose of settin up polytechnics hv been defeated

Yes we are Archaic products of an outminded country. I'v got a B.sc bt Hnd also rocks .

destino24:

Everyone knows we have serious issues in our educational system (from primary to tertiary).

That said, a typical university graduate is better than a typical polytechnic graduate. This has nothing to do with the society. This is based on laid down rules of operation of this different cadres

Exactly. Poor HND guys.

zebra: @dejt4u: Hope u did logic in maths? If u did i expect u to know that equivalence and equality are not the same. HND is equivalent to Bsc but not equal to a Bsc. @Mods: pls move this to front page let's argue this out.

equivalent and equal are not the same? I hear you. smh

kayusbrown: @OP Do not expect Nigerian bachelor's degree holders to agree with your assertion. The average Nigerian bachelor's degree holder sees the HND holder as a threat! So whenever the evil of HND discrimination is exposed, expect resistance from some insecure and inferior university graduates. The Nigerian HND is equivalent to bachelor's degree. That's a fact established not only by WES but also other credible International Credentials Evaluation Service providers. There are many misconceptions about the Nigerian HND:

1. Some confuse it with the BTEC HND in the UK. The BTEC HND is equivalent to the Nigerian ND (National Diploma) instead. It takes an unbiased mind to figure this out.
2. It is believed generally that the admission requirements into Polytechnics are usually lower than that of the universities. This is only true for the NATIONAL DIPLOMA programme of some Polytechnics. There are some Universities that admit candidates with lower requirements too. However, no Polytechnic will admit a candidate deficient in any of his/her O'level requirements to its Higher National Diploma programme.
3. Similarly, it is believed that Polytechnics teach practicals only. Practicals are only emphasised in the Polytechnics unlike Universities that dwell more on theories. In the Polytechnics, the curriculum is 60% practicals, 40% theory while the opposite is the case in Universities. Students are required to take elective courses too in the Polytechnics.
4. Lastly and the most painful misconception is the believe that the average Polytechnic graduate is less intelligent and therefore considered inferior to his/her University counterpart. That's nonsense! In saner climes, graduates are judged on their own merit.

The source of the discrimination against HND is rooted in the law establishing Nigerian Polytechnics and the emphasis Nigeria as a nation places on NOMENCLATURE! In Nigeria, an institution of higher learning cannot offer degree programmes unless it carries the name 'University'. This is why the HND programme was termed a 'Diploma' programme when it was conceived. The issue of discrimination would have been averted had it been it was termed a B.Tech degree programme from inception.

Which one are you talking about? B. Tech or HND

About the practical and theory, polytechnics are supposed to do more practicals than theory. The reverse should be the case in a university. There is nothing wrong with that.
"Engineer in society" by prof. S. I. Oluka....
Read the book

Make una dey argue... How much dey your pocket even with all the book wey una don read? Some smart secondary school holders are richer than you guys making noise.

Go and research more if the world wealthiest struggled about university or Polytechnic?...

Some people are very passionate when it come this argument about HND/B.SC. if you think HND is better then send you children to Poly and if you know B.Sc is belter send your children to University. We argue everyday HND is equal to B.SC and yet at any given opportunity we send our wards to university.
As far as Nigeria is concerned B.SC and HND are not these and are not designed to be same. When you are through with this endless argument you go to labor market and present your case.

If you can get a B.SC just go for it not HND

[quote author=Duke007][/quote] look most of the ond guys who came in through post de some either could not cope and ask to withdraw some graduated with poor result only a small percent had good grade Chem Engr university of Benin they attested to the fact that what they did in ond was merely child's play

destino24:

Everyone knows we have serious issues in our educational system (from primary to tertiary).

That said, a typical university graduate is better than a typical polytechnic graduate. This has nothing to do with the society. This is based on laid down rules of operation of this different cadres

On what fact is your assertion based? The evidence available out there is to the contrary. ICAN exam is an example, though that alone is not enough to make a sweeping generalisation that Poly grads are better.

zebra: US schooling is better than that of Nigeria 100 times. Atleast u can see what not following their system has done to education in Nigeria and the economy as a whole.

gbam

so far only lastPage and Anvaller appeared to have made reasonable points. Most of the others are just
shouting senseless things. Keep sentiments aside and look at the facts. These two are complementary
and should be valued equally. Any other tori na story.