You stated that you needed answers. We are not God only he can ease the hurt and grant the best answers, but you have to not approach it as a test to him. Don't let it be a "if I don't get answers, I will stop believing" you will be the one to loose out in the end.

But I wil surely try.

*If God knew Satan was going to turn bad and unleash anguish in the world and cause mankind's downfall and untold suffering, why did he go ahead to create him?

In so much as God loves us he does not impose on us. He grants us free will and same to the angels. The devil chose to challenge God's authority and try to take on the position of God.
God also created man don't forget that, and man can be evil, unless your friend is  trying to say God shouldn't have created him.

*Salvation is unfair. He was born into a christian home, as I was. How did that accident qualify us for salvation? What about untold millions who happen to be born into muslim and Buddhist and Shinto homes: They all believe in their God as passionately as we believe in ours. If they happen to be wrong, because they were born and raised in religions different from ours through no fault of theirs, they now go to hell?

Well I must say your friend is quite childish here, don't mean to offend him though.
One is not qualified for salvation because of the family that they are born into. Salvation is not open to only those who are born Christians. Salvation is open to all, Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists, yes all. The problem arises when someone hears the gospel and doesn't heed to the call. After hearing the gospel it is up to them to believe, but if they choose not to believe then that is their fault. Also just because a person is a Christian does not mean that they are saved or that they be counted "in the number" on the last day. As a Christian, you ahve to strive for salvation, strive for holiness, it doesn't just happen one time. Just as you fall into the graces of God, you can also fall out of it. The simplest way for this is complacency, which we are all guilty of. Rather than be zealous and striving for the Kingsom, we take that walk down the aisle and say yes to God with our mouths, but not in our hearts, and then go home and do nothing. We even read the Bible and pray day and night, yet it is in vain when we do not put our faith into action, when we do not live our faith.
So please let him know that it is not the family that we are born into but the choices that we make.
There are Christians who have lost the faith and have become atheists, and muslims, and buddhists, and all but Christians, and then are muslims, and buddhists, and hindus, and atheists that have become believers in the only Living God.

*What about all the evidence and all the science that backs up evolution? What about the human skull that was found in Kenya, 12 million years old? Adam and Eve till the present day did not accrue even ONE million years, as their genealogy in Mattews shows

Well your friend has made some very wrong assumptions here. In thinking that the Adam and Eve have only existed for 1 million years, and also in thinking that the Bible states exactly how long it has been since the creation of Adam and Eve to present day, especially 1 million years.
Your friend is reading something completely wrong into the Bible.
When ever I think of evolution, I wonder if humans are full of flaws, how much so the creation of a human. The facts used to determine the age of the earth is also a human creation, unless someone is trying to explain to me that facts don't have a percentage of error or that it wasnt created by humans and the measurement of it is not created by humans, or the definition of it is not created by humans, or that humans are flawless.
No scientist has been able to prove any of the above.

*Why has no Christian proven the existence of God beyond all doubt?

My dear facts by humans do not measure God.
God is all around you, take a step outside and lok at the trees, look at the people, there is God in everything. The proof of the exisence of God is you, take a look at yourself, tell your friend to take a look at himself.
It is not just only Christians that believe in God, muslims, Jews, and other religions do. They know of a higher being. Now their understanding of thehigher being may be wrong, but they do not deny that it is there.

*Why is there so much suffering? Why does God allow terrible things to happen, where million of lives are lost?

God gave us free will and he respects it. God doesn't want us to hurt but we choose to be hurt, by denying him, and doing things our way.
Without our free will we will be nothing but robuts. That is a very boring life.

~Lady~:

But I wil surely try.

In so much as God loves us he does not impose on us. He grants us free will and same to the angels. The devil chose to challenge God's authority and try to take on the position of God.
God also created man don't forget that, and man can be evil, unless your friend is trying to say God shouldn't have created him.

So does this mean that he cannot see the future??
Cos if we all have free will that means that he does not know what i'll do next.

~Lady~:

Well I must say your friend is quite childish here, don't mean to offend him though.
One is not qualified for salvation because of the family that they are born into. Salvation is not open to only those who are born Christians. Salvation is open to all, Muslims, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists, yes all. The problem arises when someone hears the gospel and doesn't heed to the call. After hearing the gospel it is up to them to believe, but if they choose not to believe then that is their fault. Also just because a person is a Christian does not mean that they are saved or that they be counted "in the number" on the last day. As a Christian, you ahve to strive for salvation, strive for holiness, it doesn't just happen one time. Just as you fall into the graces of God, you can also fall out of it. The simplest way for this is complacency, which we are all guilty of. Rather than be zealous and striving for the Kingsom, we take that walk down the aisle and say yes to God with our mouths, but not in our hearts, and then go home and do nothing. We even read the Bible and pray day and night, yet it is in vain when we do not put our faith into action, when we do not live our faith.
So please let him know that it is not the family that we are born into but the choices that we make.
There are Christians who have lost the faith and have become atheists, and muslims, and buddhists, and all but Christians, and then are muslims, and buddhists, and hindus, and atheists that have become believers in the only Living God.

I believe you lost the plot.
A 1000 U$D says you were born into a christian family and raised in a christian family. You were brought up to believe Jesus is the son of God, Elijah went up to heaven in a chariot of fire, He resurrected from the dead, his blood cleanses you of all your sins, e.t.c. You have taken in everything hook, line and sinker. Many years of going to church and the fear of rapture has basically made you believe it is true. This is all you know, this is what you have been indoctrinated into believing is true, you have been told not to ask any questions.

Now lets switch it. You were born in Afghanistan, into the house of an Islamic cleric, grew up in a muslim society, surrounded by muslim family friends, attented an Islamic school, frew up in an Islamic environment, raised in the ways of islam, pilgrimed in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Isreal, attended the mosque from birth, taught that Mohammed is a prophet of God, Virgins waiting for you in heaven, e.t.c. You die a muslim. So the question is simple, is this justifiable grounds for you to go to hell??

How sure are you that your religion is actually the right religion?? The buddists, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Eckkists, and countless other religions that prevail the world over, why are you so convinced that christianity is the true religion??

~Lady~:

Well your friend has made some very wrong assumptions here. In thinking that the Adam and Eve have only existed for 1 million years, and also in thinking that the Bible states exactly how long it has been since the creation of Adam and Eve to present day, especially 1 million years.
Your friend is reading something completely wrong into the Bible.
When ever I think of evolution, I wonder if humans are full of flaws, how much so the creation of a human. The facts used to determine the age of the earth is also a human creation, unless someone is trying to explain to me that facts don't have a percentage of error or that it wasnt created by humans and the measurement of it is not created by humans, or the definition of it is not created by humans, or that humans are flawless.
No scientist has been able to prove any of the above.

Well l am not an advocate of the evolution theory, but creation is just downright ridiculous.
Speaking about the bible account of the origin of the world, I am a geologist, and we have found fossils and dated them using carbon-dating thecnique which shows that the world is way older than the bible is implying. There are fossils that predate even human existence, so how then does the bible justify its claims. You talk about the human flaws and the accuracy of the dating tools, well I think this arguement is downright ridiculous cos these machines have been tried, tested and have proven to be accurate with just about a little negligible margin of error.

~Lady~:

My dear facts by humans do not measure God.
God is all around you, take a step outside and lok at the trees, look at the people, there is God in everything. The proof of the exisence of God is you, take a look at yourself, tell your friend to take a look at himself.
It is not just only Christians that believe in God, muslims, Jews, and other religions do. They know of a higher being. Now their understanding of thehigher being may be wrong, but they do not deny that it is there.

My dear trees are not evidence of the existence of God. It simply means that the soil on which that tree is growing is suitable for it to trive. The nutrients and soil conditions suits it very well. take away certain things and it will wither.Science has established that fact.
The existence of God can never be proven because all religions are based on the same foundation which is believing without seeing (FAITH). Which as far as I am concerned is not acceptable. Moses supposedly saw God, so he was justified in his belief, why should I live my life in fear based on hearsay documented by some unknown fellow who lived several generations after the event and whose account is based on stories passed down several generations before his existence. The margin of error in the bible is way too big for me to swallow whole.
We need proof.

~Lady~:

God gave us free will and he respects it. God doesn't want us to hurt but we choose to be hurt, by denying him, and doing things our way.
Without our free will we will be nothing but robuts. That is a very boring life.

To the contrary I think you are wrong here. Look at the example as documented in the bible. God gave permission to Satan to hurt Job in any form he wanted but he should not kill him. That does not sit well for a God who does not want us to hurt. Job believed in him, worshipped, e.t.c. Even the Devil bore him witness before God, who could be more righteous than Job?? SO if job could get messed up, who are you.


In my opinion, humans fear what they dont understand. Instead of researching and finding answers to lifes questions and misteries, we choose to fold our arms and attribute everything to GOd. Left to religion alone, man would never have gone to space, researched fire, techologies would be non-existent, malaria would be a terminal disease, a fracture would be treated by amputation.
I was born into a christian home, was raised in a christian home, by christian parents, e.t.c. But until certain thing are revealed to me in black and white beyond reasonable doubt, I have chosen not be a part of the confusion called religion.

Okija_juju:

So does this mean that he cannot see the future??
Cos if we all have free will that means that he does not know what i'll do next.


I believe you lost the plot.
A 1000 You$D says you were born into a christian family and raised in a christian family. You were brought up to believe Jesus is the son of God, Elijah went up to heaven in a chariot of fire, He resurrected from the dead, his blood cleanses you of all your sins, e.t.c. You have taken in everything hook, line and sinker. Many years of going to church and the fear of rapture has basically made you believe it is true. This is all you know, this is what you have been indoctrinated into believing is true, you have been told not to ask any questions.

Now lets switch it. You were born in Afghanistan, into the house of an Islamic cleric, grew up in a muslim society, surrounded by muslim family friends, attented an Islamic school, frew up in an Islamic environment, raised in the ways of islam, pilgrimed in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, Egypt and Isreal, attended the mosque from birth, taught that Mohammed is a prophet of God, Virgins waiting for you in heaven, e.t.c. You die a muslim. So the question is simple, is this justifiable grounds for you to go to hell??

How sure are you that your religion is actually the right religion?? The buddists, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Eckkists, and countless other religions that prevail the world over, why are you so convinced that christianity is the true religion??

Well l am not an advocate of the evolution theory, but creation is just downright ridiculous.
Speaking about the bible account of the origin of the world, I am a geologist, and we have found fossils and dated them using carbon-dating thecnique which shows that the world is way older than the bible is implying. There are fossils that predate even human existence, so how then does the bible justify its claims. You talk about the human flaws and the accuracy of the dating tools, well I think this arguement is downright ridiculous because these machines have been tried, tested and have proven to be accurate with just about a little negligible margin of error.

My dear trees are not evidence of the existence of God. It simply means that the soil on which that tree is growing is suitable for it to trive. The nutrients and soil conditions suits it very well. take away certain things and it will wither.Science has established that fact.
The existence of God can never be proven because all religions are based on the same foundation which is believing without seeing (FAITH). Which as far as I am concerned is not acceptable. Moses supposedly saw God, so he was justified in his belief, why should I live my life in fear based on hearsay documented by some unknown fellow who lived several generations after the event and whose account is based on stories passed down several generations before his existence. The margin of error in the bible is way too big for me to swallow whole.
We need proof.


To the contrary I think you are wrong here. Look at the example as documented in the bible. God gave permission to Satan to hurt Job in any form he wanted but he should not kill him. That does not sit well for a God who does not want us to hurt. Job believed in him, worshipped, e.t.c. Even the Devil bore him witness before God, who could be more righteous than Job?? SO if job could get messed up, who are you.


In my opinion, humans fear what they don't understand. Instead of researching and finding answers to lifes questions and misteries, we choose to fold our arms and attribute everything to GOd. Left to religion alone, man would never have gone to space, researched fire, techologies would be non-existent, malaria would be a terminal disease, a fracture would be treated by amputation.
I was born into a christian home, was raised in a christian home, by christian parents, e.t.c. But until certain thing are revealed to me in black and white beyond reasonable doubt, I have chosen not be a part of the confusion called religion.

this is my story too i could'nt have explained it better than you just did. wellcome to the era of reasoning instead of blind faith and believeing in meaningless dogma. that's why africa and nigeria ín particular is still the way it is.(retogressing)

So does this mean that he cannot see the future??
Cos if we all have free will that means that he does not know what i'll do next.

Lol no ma'am, it means he respects our decisions and allows us to make our own choices. Our parents have been through life and they can tell when something is not right for us, but they know that they can't make the decision for us because we have free will. hey sit back and watch us, and hope that we will not take the wrong road, and sometimes they just have to watch us go down the wrong road so that we can learn from it and mature. Otherwise we will be as naive as ever, and as lazy as ever, and we will return back to what hurts us.

If you warn a child about fire and the child does not heed the warning, there's nothing left to do but allow her to learn. When she burns herself she will never go back, Ofcourse you are there by her side watching her to make sure that she doesn't do much damage to herself, but you allow her to get a feel of it enough to learn from it.

That is what happens with God. He warns us and sets the rules and tells us just how to protect ourselves, but we don't want to listen, time and time again, we want to do it our way, because we trust ourselves more. So he just watches, but he doesn't abandon you, when you feel just enough to learn he steps in and resuces you, and at that point you realise he was right after all.

I believe you lost the plot.
A 1000 You$D says you were born into a christian family and raised in a christian family. You were brought up to believe Jesus is the son of God, Elijah went up to heaven in a chariot of fire, He resurrected from the dead, his blood cleanses you of all your sins, e.t.c. You have taken in everything hook, line and sinker. Many years of going to church and the fear of rapture has basically made you believe it is true. This is all you know, this is what you have been indoctrinated into believing is true, you have been told not to ask any questions.

LOLOLOL you just lost $1000 USD. I not only had Christian influences but muslim influences. But truly I was born into a secular family. My mother was not a Christian, and well my dad is a lost story. I hardly made it to church, I would attend every now and then, but only when I am visiting my Christian family. I also made it near a mosque, wasn't exactly welcomed because I wasn't muslim. My religious education came in school. I always believed that God gave us three different options to getting to heaven, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Infact when I was trying to answer a question in class, I used the fork in our school ground to explain that during lunch time we all went in different directions and took different roads but it was taking us to the same place, the canteen, lol.
It wasn't when I was a bit older that my mother gave her life to Christ after he miracle, the survival of my baby brother and my mother when she was pregnant with him.
Even fter that, I never really had any religious education. I just knew what other people knew and still had the same idea that we all get there but in different directions.
I used to defend the Islamic faith especially after 911 took place. I made sure I was friends with the Afghan kids at my school and stood up for them. I explained to everyone that no where in the quran does it says kill the unbelievers, I said that the American media was just portraying it as that and making all that up.
Being from Africa, I understood, because the kids only knew about Africa because of what they saw on t.v. and I knew that wasn't true, so I figured they were lying about this too. Mind you at that time I had never opened the quran. I was exposed to some of its teachings, not all.
Actually it wasn't until I got to college that my religious life started forming. As a freshman I never went to Church. As a Sophomore I went because my roommate made me go.
I didn't really like Christians especially Catholics (ironically I am a Catholic today) I thought they were idol worshippers because of the saints and statues, never had a problem with Mary though. I thought she was a really nice woman.
But I attended Church one sunday with another roommate, and got pissed off at the pastor, because all he was doing was bashing muslims and I just couldn't stand that. Not only that, but they were praying (pentecostal) and jumping everywhere and I wasn't and my roommate was bothering me and then told me that I was not Christian enough and that I didn't praise God enough because I wouldn't stand up and jump. Well that pissed me off, and I didn't want to attend church anymore. I still went sometimes because my other roommate (my best friend), until one day I went to a Catholic Church, and I felt peace. I didn't want to leave. I couldn't stop thinking about it and just kept going back and have never looked back ever since. I didn't study the Bible much until then. Now I am in training to teach a religious education class.
So my Christian life, didn't start until 2 years ago, during my junior year in college.

So no I wasn't told all that you mentioned above, I was told a lot more than that from Christians and muslims alike. I didn't care until recently.

How sure are you that your religion is actually the right religion?? The buddists, Jews, Muslims, Hindus, Eckkists, and countless other religions that prevail the world over, why are you so convinced that christianity is the true religion??

Because of the miracles that I have seen in my life (in the past two years, most recently surving a terrible car accident, I know what I felt and no one can take that away from me)
Also because I have done extensive research, Christianity's history is aligned with the history of the world (at least within the past 2000 years), Islam's history is not.

Well l am not an advocate of the evolution theory, but creation is just downright ridiculous.
Speaking about the bible account of the origin of the world, I am a geologist, and we have found fossils and dated them using carbon-dating thecnique which shows that the world is way older than the bible is implying

The Bible is not implying anytime frame on the date of the earth. People just want to read too mcuh into it. Those who think that the earth has been around for only a couple million years, are ignorant and need to get more education on the issue. The one thing that pisses me off a lot are Christians who think that science is the evil. The only way to get truth is from the Bible, while I hold the Bible to be true, I also understand the style in which the writers wrote the Bible. Each book is written in a different style and as time went on the styles changed and so did languages. So it is very possible that the seven days in which the earth is created is not literal sunday through saturday, it could have very well been in seven "intervals" (for lack of a better word or description). I was talking to a friend of mine (a scientist) and he was trying to explain to me how the "evolution" of things matched the "order" of creation. I will have to contact him to get more info for you.
To me it actually supports my faith.
I also feel that as we have matured in the world and gotten more knowledge we understand creation a lot better with science.
Now people ae quick to jump to "blasphemy" but ask the Christian scientists and they will back me up (they're rare, but they are there).

You talk about the human flaws and the accuracy of the dating tools, well I think this arguement is downright ridiculous because these machines have been tried, tested and have proven to be accurate with just about a little negligible margin of error.

you do know that you just repeated what I said, right?

My dear trees are not evidence of the existence of God. It simply means that the soil on which that tree is growing is suitable for it to trive. The nutrients and soil conditions suits it very well. take away certain things and it will wither.Science has established that fact.

Lololol just because something dies or whithers does not mean that it disproves God. You also seem to forget that the soil also had to have come from somewhere. It is not just only the trees, I just wanted to name a few, but the soil that you mention is a part of it too, the sunshine that feeds the trees is a part of it too, the water is a part of it too.
It's actually amazing though. Just as we humans need food, so do the trees, so do the animals, so do living things. It amazes me how we follow the same pattern. Without food or water we die. We all seek shelter even in the wild, some of us are meant to be daywalkers and the rest nightwalkers. It doesn't disprove creation but proves it all the more.

The existence of God can never be proven because all religions are based on the same foundation which is believing without seeing (FAITH). Which as far as I am concerned is not acceptable

You don't have to, it is not a fight. No one is saying you have to believe. The problem I do have is that I respect you and your unbelief in God, but you don't respect me or my belief in God.

Moses supposedly saw God, so he was justified in his belief, why should I live my life in fear based on hearsay documented by some unknown fellow who lived several generations after the event and whose account is based on stories passed down several generations before his existence. The margin of error in the bible is way too big for me to swallow whole.
We need proof.

You don't have to believe. I believed and then I was justified. Sometimes it takes belief and then justification. This reminds me of a passage in the Bible. You don't have to believe in the Bible to get my point here, so calm down.

John 21: 24-29
24 Thomas, called Didymus, one of the Twelve, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 So the other disciples said to him, "We have seen the Lord." But he said to them, "Unless I see the mark of the nails in his hands and put my finger in his nailmarks and put my hand into his side, I will not believe."
26 Now a week later his disciples were again inside and Thomas was with them. Jesus came although the doors were locked, and stood in their midst and said, "Peace be unto you."
27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here and see my hands, and bring your hand and put it into my side, and do not be unbelieving, but believe."
28 Thomas answered and said "My Lord and my God!"
29 Jesus said to him, "Have you come to believe because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed."

It takes a lot to believe without seeing, so I understand, your skeptical, I'm not asking you not to be. I'm not aksing you to believe. I am asking you to respect my belief.

When Mary appeared in Fatima there were a lot of unbelievers there, but when they saw the miracle of the sun they came to believe. Paul himself didn't believe until he had an encounter with Jesus. So it is nothing new, to want proof or to get proof. But don't try to test God.
If he wants to show you he will and I pray that he will show you.

To the contrary I think you are wrong here. Look at the example as documented in the bible. God gave permission to Satan to hurt Job in any form he wanted but he should not kill him. That does not sit well for a God who does not want us to hurt. Job believed in him, worshipped, e.t.c. Even the Devil bore him witness before God, who could be more righteous than Job?? SO if job could get messed up, who are you.

Lolol where did I say that I can't get hurt. That was for a purpose. If you paid attention to the conversation between God and Satan, you will see that God really didn't want to hurt Job, he was pleased with him. He was protecting him from the devil. But the devil being who he is wanting to show power and said that the only reason why Job was faithful is because he's under the protection of God, so the devil tried God saying that if he were to hurt Job, Job will curse God, so God said ok go ahead, but you must not kill him (God knew what was up, he's confident like that, so he made sure that Job would be alive to benefit from his faithfulness. Truly Job never cursed God, he went through so much, and stayed faithful to God, and in the end reaped the benfits of his faithfulness.

The lesson there, always be faithful. When my accident happened my mother was so upset and it seemed like she was going to curse God, and I used this story to remind her of God's graces and love. I have lived this story.

In my opinion, humans fear what they don't understand.

This actually describes you and other atheists. You are so afraid of the unseen and what you do not understand that you bury yourself in your facts to try to disprove him, and till date you haven't.

As a Christian, I am not afraid, but very confident in God. I don't feel like I need to hide anywhere, or that I am on a race to "show those people that they are wrong, and scream aha at them"
I am actually very fine in understanding the unseen.

Left to religion alone, man would never have gone to space, researched fire, techologies would be non-existent, malaria would be a terminal disease, a fracture would be treated by amputation

On the contrary it is because of the religion and the belief in life itsef that these "religious" people have, that have pushed them forward to find solutions to the problems that we had in the past and today. Remember majority of people were religious back in the day. And a lot of the cures and technology that we have were directed or first thought of by them. It wasn't until the last two to three centuries that atheism became prevalent or an option. People invented things before then and life sustained before then, it was driven by the love of life and people in general that scientists (who were very religous) of those days were able to come up with medical advances and technology. Because of this love of life that we have, we strive for the betterment of all mankind.
Don't let today fool you, life existed before today, and people did not start inventing things today or in the last two to three centuries. Technology existed with the Romans, it existed with the Greeks, with the Persians, with the Africans and these were very religious people.
Don't mistake technology to be the latest computers, technology has always been there, it just improves.

was born into a christian home, was raised in a christian home, by christian parents, e.t.c. But until certain thing are revealed to me in black and white beyond reasonable doubt, I have chosen not be a part of the confusion called religion.

To each her own.

this is my story too i could'nt have explained it better than you just did. wellcome to the era of reasoning instead of blind faith and believeing in meaningless dogma. that's why africa and nigeria ín particular is still the way it is.(retogressing)

This would be true, if the rest of the world was in the same situation as Nigeria. But seeing that the United States which has a high concentration of Christians, and other religous is very prosperous, your statement has no basis. it's not just the United States but also Germany, they have the best economic system, it's like in almost every drive way there's a mercedes, yet they have a high concentration of Religious people.
Same with Britain and France.
These countries were deeply rooted in religious beliefs.
The United States itself was founded on religious beliefs (Christian).

So your statement is not true. That is a known fact.

I'm feeling y'all, especially Okija Juju. And he isn't attributing those countries' progressiveness and our retrogressive ways here to religion:He's attributing it to their willingness to examine and challenge their beliefs- not just religion but all spheres- and our reluctance to do so.  We're indoctrinated and are unwilling to beam the searchlight on what we believe because we're afraid of what we might unearth. The question of fairness, salvation wise, remains unanwered so far.

Mad_Max:

I'm feeling y'all, especially Okija Juju. And he isn't attributing those countries' progressiveness and our retrogressive ways here to religion:He's attributing it to their willingness to examine and challenge their beliefs- not just religion but all spheres- and our reluctance to do so.  We're indoctrinated and are unwilling to beam the searchlight on what we believe because we're afraid of what we might unearth. The question of fairness, salvation wise, remains unanwered so far.

The question of fairness salvation wise can never be answered, some christains are now making excuses and finding grey areas to imply that some moslems or people of other faiths are now qualified to make it into heaven even when that teaching is completely against the teaching of jesus and the bible, it is written unequivocally that jesus is the way the truth and the light and no one can see god unless through him besides there are so many other references that have been made in the bible that unequivocally states that belief in jesus and nobody else will make u see god, but because the moral ziegiest has shifted some christains are now making excuses and some are saying that you don't' necessarily have to believe in jesus to see god, if that is true then what is the purpose of christainity? why is it wrong to become a moslem, buddhist, shirk, hindu etc.

religion is a farce, because even in the christain religion there are so many religions each operationg as an individual entity and are mutaully exclusive from the others. most sects have very different beliefs and doctorines but they just use the general belief in the so called death and resurection of jesus to hide their differences. my pastor once told me that catholics, and white garment wearing christains are not really chriatains and for that they will all rot in hell. jehova witness believe that they are the choosen ones, the seven day adventist believe the same too. there are over 30,000 different sects in chriatianity each beliveing and postulating that they know and hold the ultimate truth while most of the others do not and for that they are not the true path and following them leads to nothing but perdition.

How many versions of the bible are there(over 70 translation of the ebglish version alone)? and when did the bible become the bible? some have 66 books and others have over 70 so how do we know which to accept and follow and which to discard? why can't christains come up with a universally acceptable book and doctorine?if there is a god he will not allow people to propagate his messages and ideals because people have failed completely in that regard, if there is a god he will propagate his messages and ideals himself.

All religions were created out of the fear of the many and the cleverness of a few.

In my opinion, humans fear what they don't understand. Instead of researching and finding answers to lifes questions and misteries, we choose to fold our arms and attribute everything to GOd. Left to religion alone, man would never have gone to space, researched fire, techologies would be non-existent, malaria would be a terminal disease, a fracture would be treated by amputation.

I like your line of debate. It is a very Islamic way of arugment. You should always question what you don not understand. Allah in Quran urges us to question, challenge, pursue, research and solve the unknown. It shows in the history of the Islamic Renaissance which is traditionally dated from the 8th century to the 13th century, but has been extended to the 15th and 16th centuries by recent scholarship. During this period, engineers, scholars and traders in the Islamic world contributed to the arts, agriculture, economics, industry, law, literature, navigation, philosophy, sciences, and technology, both by preserving and building upon earlier traditions and by adding inventions and innovations of their own.[5] Howard R. Turner writes: "Muslim artists and scientists, princes and labourers together made a unique culture that has directly and indirectly influenced societies on every continent."

One must not be content with the thought of it is from GOD, thus we must not question it. They is no progressiveness in that. And why would you even want to follow such doctrine.

nanayisha:

In my opinion, humans fear what they don't understand. Instead of researching and finding answers to lifes questions and misteries, we choose to fold our arms and attribute everything to GOd. Left to religion alone, man would never have gone to space, researched fire, techologies would be non-existent, malaria would be a terminal disease, a fracture would be treated by amputation.

I like your line of debate. It is a very Islamic way of arugment. You should always question what you don not understand. Allah in Quran urges us to question, challenge, pursue, research and solve the unknown. It shows in the history of the Islamic Renaissance which is traditionally dated from the 8th century to the 13th century, but has been extended to the 15th and 16th centuries by recent scholarship. During this period, engineers, scholars and traders in the Islamic world contributed to the arts, agriculture, economics, industry, law, literature, navigation, philosophy, sciences, and technology, both by preserving and building upon earlier traditions and by adding inventions and innovations of their own.[5] Howard R. Turner writes: "Muslim artists and scientists, princes and labourers together made a unique culture that has directly and indirectly influenced societies on every continent."

One must not be content with the thought of it is from GOD, thus we must not question it. They is no progressiveness in that. And why would you even want to follow such doctrine.

what the Bleep is islam? how can you explain this following Hadith which proclaims that "When judgment day arrives, Allah will give every Muslim, a Jew or a Christian to kill so that the Muslim will not enter into hell fire." - Mishkat Al-Messabih, vol 2, no. 5552? what is it with allah and death? why does he love death and destruction so much?
what explanation do you have about the hadith where the prophet of islam denounced a person for using his left hand and told people that it is sin to use their left hands. does he know the science and physiology surrounding left handedness?

what about all the kill the enemy verses in the koran? how do you explain and justify them. all you religious apologist should go and leave us alone we are tired of you selling and trying to prove that your god is the best of all the others.

JUST KEEP PRAYING FOR HIM

I BELIEVE ONE DAY, HE WOULD HAVE AN ENCOUNTER WITH HIM

he is on his path to loving God, dont worry, i know this trajectory, hate then love then become over reliligious and fanatic bout God.

your friend is not to be blamed,i used to think like your friend and still do think like him when the need arise.his present mental state does not lie in material or monetary power rather it lies in the some many views within him as a person.the only reason why i think i've not drawn conclusion in my thoughts is b'cos i still find some reasons to believe in His existence and i into some occultic activities which gives room for believing in the existence of Jah.PLEASE,let no one judge or pass any derogatory comment on to this dude cos who knows what some minds have thoughtworse,i believe.

~Lady~:

Lol no ma'am, it means he respects our decisions and allows us to make our own choices. Our parents have been through life and they can tell when something is not right for us, but they know that they can't make the decision for us because we have free will. hey sit back and watch us, and hope that we will not take the wrong road, and sometimes they just have to watch us go down the wrong road so that we can learn from it and mature. Otherwise we will be as naive as ever, and as lazy as ever, and we will return back to what hurts us.

If you warn a child about fire and the child does not heed the warning, there's nothing left to do but allow her to learn. When she burns herself she will never go back, Ofcourse you are there by her side watching her to make sure that she doesn't do much damage to herself, but you allow her to get a feel of it enough to learn from it.

That is what happens with God. He warns us and sets the rules and tells us just how to protect ourselves, but we don't want to listen, time and time again, we want to do it our way, because we trust ourselves more. So he just watches, but he doesn't abandon you, when you feel just enough to learn he steps in and resuces you, and at that point you realise he was right after all.

I have the choice between two things, if God knows the end from the beginning and vice versa, that means I really didnt make any choice, I only did what God already knows I'll do.

Or do I remind you of the story of Adam and Eve where he created them and left a loaded smith and wesson in the Garden knowing fully well that they would use it, and when they did he got angry. How does this relate to his all-knowingness??

~Lady~:

LOLOLOL you just lost $1000 USD. I not only had Christian influences but muslim influences. But truly I was born into a secular family. My mother was not a Christian, and well my dad is a lost story. I hardly made it to church, I would attend every now and then, but only when I am visiting my Christian family. I also made it near a mosque, wasn't exactly welcomed because I wasn't muslim. My religious education came in school. I always believed that God gave us three different options to getting to heaven, Judaism, Christianity, and Islam. Infact when I was trying to answer a question in class, I used the fork in our school ground to explain that during lunch time we all went in different directions and took different roads but it was taking us to the same place, the canteen, lol.
It wasn't when I was a bit older that my mother gave her life to Christ after he miracle, the survival of my baby brother and my mother when she was pregnant with him.
Even fter that, I never really had any religious education. I just knew what other people knew and still had the same idea that we all get there but in different directions.
I used to defend the Islamic faith especially after 911 took place. I made sure I was friends with the Afghan kids at my school and stood up for them. I explained to everyone that no where in the quran does it says kill the unbelievers, I said that the American media was just portraying it as that and making all that up.
Being from Africa, I understood, because the kids only knew about Africa because of what they saw on t.v. and I knew that wasn't true, so I figured they were lying about this too. Mind you at that time I had never opened the quran. I was exposed to some of its teachings, not all.
Actually it wasn't until I got to college that my religious life started forming. As a freshman I never went to Church. As a Sophomore I went because my roommate made me go.
I didn't really like Christians especially Catholics (ironically I am a Catholic today) I thought they were idol worshippers because of the saints and statues, never had a problem with Mary though. I thought she was a really nice woman.
But I attended Church one sunday with another roommate, and got pissed off at the pastor, because all he was doing was bashing muslims and I just couldn't stand that. Not only that, but they were praying (pentecostal) and jumping everywhere and I wasn't and my roommate was bothering me and then told me that I was not Christian enough and that I didn't praise God enough because I wouldn't stand up and jump. Well that pissed me off, and I didn't want to attend church anymore. I still went sometimes because my other roommate (my best friend), until one day I went to a Catholic Church, and I felt peace. I didn't want to leave. I couldn't stop thinking about it and just kept going back and have never looked back ever since. I didn't study the Bible much until then. Now I am in training to teach a religious education class.
So my Christian life, didn't start until 2 years ago, during my junior year in college.

So no I wasn't told all that you mentioned above, I was told a lot more than that from Christians and muslims alike. I didn't care until recently.

Well I guess I owe you a $1000. But then the difference is that yu came to christianity of your own accord, but then that still does not change the countless other religious zombies who go about their daily lives living in perpertual fear of damnation as preached by their religion. You never explained to me why a child who was born and raised a muslim and dies a muslim should go to hell since that is all he knows and thats what he was raised to believe is the truth.

~Lady~:

Because of the miracles that I have seen in my life (in the past two years, most recently surving a terrible car accident, I know what I felt and no one can take that away from me)
Also because I have done extensive research, Christianity's history is aligned with the history of the world (at least within the past 2000 years), Islam's history is not.

Miracles you say?? Even your bible has said that signs and wonders are not enough for you to comfirm your faith.

Matthew 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.

This means that even non-belivers and hypocrites can perform signs and wonders and miracles. So how does this qualify your religion as the true religion?? Even Muslims and Hindus and Buddists alike also have miracles and signs and wonders. So I ask you again, what is your proof of that your religion is the true religion.

And I would not even want to go down that line with you as regrading the alignment of christian history with the history of the world because, even you know that you can puncture holes in every page of the bible.


John 4:48 Then said Jesus unto him, Except ye see signs and wonders, ye will not believe.

Is this the case for you??    Cos I can sho you signs and wonders that will blow your mind, and non of them was done with the aid of christianity or any religion.

~Lady~:

The Bible is not implying anytime frame on the date of the earth. People just want to read too mcuh into it. Those who think that the earth has been around for only a couple million years, are ignorant and need to get more education on the issue. The one thing that pisses me off a lot are Christians who think that science is the evil. The only way to get truth is from the Bible, while I hold the Bible to be true, I also understand the style in which the writers wrote the Bible. Each book is written in a different style and as time went on the styles changed and so did languages. So it is very possible that the seven days in which the earth is created is not literal sunday through saturday, it could have very well been in seven "intervals" (for lack of a better word or description). I was talking to a friend of mine (a scientist) and he was trying to explain to me how the "evolution" of things matched the "order" of creation. I will have to contact him to get more info for you.
To me it actually supports my faith.
I also feel that as we have matured in the world and gotten more knowledge we understand creation a lot better with science.
Now people ae quick to jump to "blasphemy" but ask the Christian scientists and they will back me up (they're rare, but they are there).

My dear, wouldnt you find it strange that the bible would mistakenly write 4.5 billion years as 7 days?? The concept of dating has been around for many many years, but one thing that has remained constant is the theory of day and night which accounts for 1 day. So your theory of misrepresentation of the time frame of creation is not justified. The bible stated it clearly that he created the world in 6 days and rested on the seventh. Evolution does not match the theory of evolution in any way. Creation staes clearly that Man was created in the image and likeness of God whilst evolution theory states that Man evolved from monkeys and went through different stages (homo-habilis - Homo-erectus - Homo-sapien). How do you match these two?? Or are you trying to say God created the monkeys first and then they evolved.     _Roflmao.

~Lady~:

you do know that you just repeated what I said, right?

No I didnt. You totally rubbished the dating techniques talking about human flaws and errors. I used the theory of mechanical advantage which states that a machine can never be 100% efficient, but atimes the margin of error are a very little decimal that they are negligible.

~Lady~:

Lololol just because something dies or whithers does not mean that it disproves God. You also seem to forget that the soil also had to have come from somewhere. It is not just only the trees, I just wanted to name a few, but the soil that you mention is a part of it too, the sunshine that feeds the trees is a part of it too, the water is a part of it too.
It's actually amazing though. Just as we humans need food, so do the trees, so do the animals, so do living things. It amazes me how we follow the same pattern. Without food or water we die. We all seek shelter even in the wild, some of us are meant to be daywalkers and the rest nightwalkers. It doesn't disprove creation but proves it all the more.

Wrong again. That only proves the thory of the cycle of life, and how each one of these organisms have a part to play in maintaining the natural balance of life. We anahilate all the trees and plants, we humans will automatically die out, God or no God. Thats science. We need the bees to pollinate the plants to produce the herbs that feed the animals that produce food, meat and milk that feeds the humans who excrete and feed the worms that feed the birds that help in the pollination and the. . . . . . .  and cycle continues. These theories abound in science. Food chain, life cycles, water cycles, e.t.c. This is science, not religion. While some religions are so busy believing that animals are reincarnations of dead humans we scientists dont. There is an explanation fro everything with science, where there is non, we research till we find answers.

~Lady~:

You don't have to, it is not a fight. No one is saying you have to believe. The problem I do have is that I respect you and your unbelief in God, but you don't respect me or my belief in God.

To the contrary, I absolutely respect your choice of religion, and what ever you do. Its your choice. I am only questioning the religion which has been shoved down my throat for so many years. I have parents who cant stand Muslims, Buddists and all other religions that dont agree with theirs. Muslims are killing off christians, Christians militating against Muslims and buddists and the rest and likewise for the other religions.
I am only the seeker of the truth. So the onus is on you to proe to me the existence of this God that you profess. And faith does not cut it anymore, cos the other religions also use the same principle, so why is your "faith" better than theirs??

~Lady~:

You don't have to believe. I believed and then I was justified. Sometimes it takes belief and then justification. This reminds me of a passage in the Bible. You don't have to believe in the Bible to get my point here, so calm down.

John 21: 24-29
24 Thomas, called Didymus, one of the Twelve, was not with them when Jesus came.
25 So the other disciples said to him, "We have seen the Lord." But he said to them, "Unless I see the mark of the nails in his hands and put my finger in his nailmarks and put my hand into his side, I will not believe."
26 Now a week later his disciples were again inside and Thomas was with them. Jesus came although the doors were locked, and stood in their midst and said, "Peace be unto you."
27 Then he said to Thomas, "Put your finger here and see my hands, and bring your hand and put it into my side, and do not be unbelieving, but believe."
28 Thomas answered and said "My Lord and my God!"
29 Jesus said to him, "Have you come to believe because you have seen me? Blessed are those who have not seen and have believed."

It takes a lot to believe without seeing, so I understand, your skeptical, I'm not asking you not to be. I'm not aksing you to believe. I am asking you to respect my belief.

When Mary appeared in Fatima there were a lot of unbelievers there, but when they saw the miracle of the sun they came to believe. Paul himself didn't believe until he had an encounter with Jesus. So it is nothing new, to want proof or to get proof. But don't try to test God.
If he wants to show you he will and I pray that he will show you.

I am not testing anybody, all I want is proof. Show me a glimpse of heaven, show me his face, he showed thomas _{(who by the way walked on earth with him, preached his sermon, wined and dined with him)} , so it wouldnt to see some proof, cos science is seriously disproving his exsitence and seeing they say is beleiving.

Even the bible said e should test all spirits.

1 John 4:1 ¶ Beloved, believe not every spirit, but try the spirits whether they are of God: because many false prophets are gone out into the world.

Believe not every religion.

~Lady~:

Lolol where did I say that I can't get hurt. That was for a purpose. If you paid attention to the conversation between God and Satan, you will see that God really didn't want to hurt Job, he was pleased with him. He was protecting him from the devil. But the devil being who he is wanting to show power and said that the only reason why Job was faithful is because he's under the protection of God, so the devil tried God saying that if he were to hurt Job, Job will curse God, so God said ok go ahead, but you must not kill him (God knew what was up, he's confident like that, so he made sure that Job would be alive to benefit from his faithfulness. Truly Job never cursed God, he went through so much, and stayed faithful to God, and in the end reaped the benfits of his faithfulness.

The lesson there, always be faithful. When my accident happened my mother was so upset and it seemed like she was going to curse God, and I used this story to remind her of God's graces and love. I have lived this story.

No the lesson here is that no matter how faithful or how much you pray and bind, God would still let the devil mess you up.

Job 1:7 And the LORD said unto Satan, Whence comest thou? Then Satan answered the LORD, and said, From going to and fro in the earth, and from walking up and down in it. 8 And the LORD said unto Satan, Hast thou considered my servant Job, that there is none like him in the earth, a perfect and an upright man, one that feareth God, and escheweth evil?

God actually suggested to the devil to go mess Job up. This totally rubbishes the concept of an all loving father that is supposed to "LEAD US NOT INTO TEMPTATION". If Job had cursed God and died, is it fair for him to go to hell??
There are tow sides to every coin.
You talked about the devil trying God, what ever happened to "thou shall not tempt the lord thy God"?

You see one of the many loopholes that abounds in the bible.

~Lady~:

This actually describes you and other atheists. You are so afraid of the unseen and what you do not understand that you bury yourself in your facts to try to disprove him, and till date you haven't.

No actually, we have decided to face the harsh reality which is life, take the bull by the horn, research into the mysteries of life, and not resign to religion as the justification for the things we cant understand.

~Lady~:

On the contrary it is because of the religion and the belief in life itsef that these "religious" people have, that have pushed them forward to find solutions to the problems that we had in the past and today. Remember majority of people were religious back in the day. And a lot of the cures and technology that we have were directed or first thought of by them. It wasn't until the last two to three centuries that atheism became prevalent or an option. People invented things before then and life sustained before then, it was driven by the love of life and people in general that scientists (who were very religous) of those days were able to come up with medical advances and technology. Because of this love of life that we have, we strive for the betterment of all mankind.
Don't let today fool you, life existed before today, and people did not start inventing things today or in the last two to three centuries. Technology existed with the Romans, it existed with the Greeks, with the Persians, with the Africans and these were very religious people.
Don't mistake technology to be the latest computers, technology has always been there, it just improves.

Sweetheart, the people who invented the technologies that are driving the world today did not pray to acquire that knowledge. They actually challenged the beleifs that abound in their society to prove otherwise and they did.
Charles Dawin, Leonado Da Vinci, Micheal Faradays, Thomas Edisons, Graham Bells, e.t.c all went against the odds and prooved that man could do absolutely way beyond our imaginations. You just wait till life is found on the other planets then I wonder what religion would come up with.
religion is basd on dont worry its God. You are sick, God. You are poor, God. Your crops are not doing well, God. e.t.c. The earth moves around the sun, God
Science is based on explanations, You are sick, research and find the cause and then the cure, same for everything else in life. The earth moves around the sun, Gravity.

I could keep going.

N/B; All we atheist are searching for is proof. Religion hasnt offer any answers so far. I cant believe in what cant be proven, thats foolishness.

@ poster
You should be happy for your friend! He has seen the light and the influences of brainwashing have begun to vanish!

Okija_juju:

N/B; All we atheist are searching for is proof. Religion hasnt offer any answers so far. I can't believe in what can't be proven, thats foolishness.

That's essentially not true, the atheist has no proof that God does not exist either.

It is high time gobby mouthed morons stop force-feeding other people that do not wish to eat!

if someone hates God, why can't we leave them alone? must we tear down his/her eardrum to change his/her mind?!

_{for flying fu/ck sake!}

REALLY, IT SO AMAZING HOW PEOPLE DISOBEY SIMPLE INSTRUCTIONS GIVEN BY GOD BUT BLAMES HIM FOR THE TROUBLE WHICH THEIR DISOBEDIENCE IS CAUSING. Your friend should stop lazying around blaming God, without any apology, let him/her go find out the purpose he is existing here and fulfil it. And since he does not want to believe in God, I will like to assume he created himself, then let him answer all the questions by himself and if not, let him go back to his Bible and ask God who says " even before you were born, I knew you, "

davidylan:

That's essentially not true, the atheist has no proof that God does not exist either.

Which of the gods? Allah? jehova?buddah?zues?sango?pahhlongon?shirk?horus? amunasa?masstata? which of them are you talking about?

ohije:

REALLY, IT SO AMAZING HOW PEOPLE DISOBEY SIMPLE INSTRUCTIONS GIVEN BY GOD BUT BLAMES HIM FOR THE TROUBLE WHICH THEIR DISOBEDIENCE IS CAUSING. Your friend should stop lazying around blaming God, without any apology, let him/her go find out the purpose he is existing here and fulfil it. And since he does not want to believe in God, I will like to assume he created himself, then let him answer all the questions by himself and if not, let him go back to his Bible and ask God who says " even before you were born, I knew you, "

So even before moslems, hindus,shirks,pallaguns,buddist etc were born the god of the bible knew they were going to be born into their various faiths and yet he does nothing about it and sends them to rot in hell for eternity for something they know and have no control over, does that sound sensible to you?

Brash!:

It is high time gobby mouthed morons stop force-feeding other people that do not wish to eat!

if someone hates God, why can't we leave them alone? must we tear down his/her eardrum to change his/her mind?!

_{for flying fu/ck sake!}

thou hypocrite . . . Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260:
Narrated Ikrima:

Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

mazaje:

Which of the gods? Allah? jehova?buddah?zues?sango?pahhlongon?shirk?horus? amunasa?masstata? which of them are you talking about?

the choice is yours.

mazaje:

Which of the gods? Allah? jehova?buddah?zues?sango?pahhlongon?shirk?horus? amunasa?masstata? which of them are you talking about?

Good question, you forgot Okija and Amadi-oha.  

ohije:

REALLY, IT SO AMAZING HOW PEOPLE DISOBEY SIMPLE INSTRUCTIONS GIVEN BY GOD BUT BLAMES HIM FOR THE TROUBLE WHICH THEIR DISOBEDIENCE IS CAUSING. Your friend should stop lazying around blaming God, without any apology, let him/her go find out the purpose he is existing here and fulfil it. And since he does not want to believe in God, I will like to assume he created himself, then let him answer all the questions by himself and if not, let him go back to his Bible and ask God who says " even before you were born, I knew you, "

Did God send you a mail or write you a letter or send you a txt of these instructions?? Or are you living your life based on some religious manuscript that was written by people who we cant ascertain the authenticity of their writting or their mental state.

How come all of a sudden in or time we dont have the kind of cool shit that happened in the days of Moses.
Do you know how many converts you would win if you can part the atlantic ocean?? Or if you can pray down manna from Heaven in Sudan, and the rest of thoses other awesome stuffs.
Well it wouldnt matter anymore cause Chris Angel could prolly do it, and I still wouldnt believe him.

It is always amazing how quick people are to tear down others who have questions. And follow it with subtle threats of Hell Fire, despite the fact that even they do not have answers to the questions asked.

The poster asked why God created the devil, with the Omnipotent knowledge that the devil was going to rise up and challenge him and attempt to turn his creatures (humans) to hell (a word whose entymology predates christianity and comes from Hades, the greek god of the underworld). Assuming this account was true ( I am not saying it is, neither am I saying it is not), but does that make God an egotist? who lacked any worthy challenges, and relishes defeating the devil?

Back to the other questions, Someone also said the poster should hand his friend a bible. The bible isnt without its own holes (and please spare me the 'old backdoor excuse' that I should accept everything by blind faith).

The greatest evils ever known to man, have been perpetrated using religion (take your pick, the crusades, the jihad, slave trade (arabic and european), because religion ascribes superiority over adherrents of any other religion. I know most religious people will claim they are humble, but yet will 'pity' anyone who doesnt follwo their one true God.

Now lets go back to the bible that has been touted as the TRUTh. The bible is a historical account of a specific people (in this case the Jews?), to the exclusion and later inclusion of other people that also existed. There are a couple of literatures that predate the bible and have correlating stories.

If we arent allowed to question the accounts we have been given, so are we saying we accept God isnt perfect? and that his word actually changeth? How do I reconcile my scientific knowledge that proves that in-breeding within families will lead to children with weaker immune systems, yet absorb the fact that God allowed incest when he only 'created' two beings.

if there were only 4poeple on earth when cain killed his brother and attempted to run from God. Who was he scared off when he asked God, 'what if the 'others' find him? And who was God protecting him from when he put a mark on him and proclaimed that "ANYONE that found cain' should not harm him. Bear in mind that Adam only went back to 'know' his wife after this accounts and bore seth. yet Esau went east and managed to raise a whole family unto himself. (Note, I am not questioning God, I am questioning the accounts that have been handed to me). Why give me a brain if I am not supposed to apply it to question things that dont add up? I personall dont think this is a sin.

I personally dont argue religion, and try not to convince anyone to see things or question them the way I do, cause religious pple cop out and tell me it is all 'by faith', and you couldnt argue with that. But when people have questions, let them be, answer the questions, if you can, and if you cant shut up. But quit with all the condescending, hand the soul on the highway to hell a bible talk. Most people dont even know why they believe what they believe, except that they were born into it and have been indoctrinated with it, yet, they look down on other similar people born and indoctrinated into something different, and pity them because they are not 'saved'.

I will stop for now. But please let the poster be. He has questions in his mind, let him ask,

Max, while it can sometimes be very difficult to tell people about GOD because a person who doesn't want to believe probably wouldn't hear you no matter how hard or how long or how passionate you speak, the best way and this works all the time even if it takes a while, is to commit that person to GOD in prayers.

Arguments just don't work! I know someone who thrives on such arguments because he just wants an explanation, a definition that he can comprehend about GOD.

I learnt from him that argument only lead to more argument as he would spend hours debating first with me, then with my brothers - he just never got tired!

Just pray for him. GOD and GOD Alone, can answer those questions which cannot even be phrased.

Shalom!!!

davidylan:

the choice is yours.

davidylan:

thou hypocrite . . . Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260:
Narrated Ikrima:

Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

dont quote me mr bible/mr religion or wateva, dont even come at me like dat ok!_{play ur position}

Brash!:

don't quote me mr bible/mr religion or whatever, don't even come at me like that ok!_{play your position}

who does this fellow think he is? 
My friend go and sit down!

davidylan:

who does this fellow think he is?
My friend go and sit down!

nobody, i am nobody!

stop chatting loads of poppycocks!

Le Moor:

It is always amazing how quick people are to tear down others who have questions. And follow it with subtle threats of Hell Fire, despite the fact that even they do not have answers to the questions asked.

The poster asked why God created the devil, with the Omnipotent knowledge that the devil was going to rise up and challenge him and attempt to turn his creatures (humans) to hell (a word whose entymology predates christianity and comes from Hades, the greek god of the underworld). Assuming this account was true ( I am not saying it is, neither am I saying it is not), but does that make God an egotist? who lacked any worthy challenges, and relishes defeating the devil?

Back to the other questions, Someone also said the poster should hand his friend a bible. The bible isnt without its own holes (and please spare me the 'old backdoor excuse' that I should accept everything by blind faith).

The greatest evils ever known to man, have been perpetrated using religion (take your pick, the crusades, the jihad, slave trade (arabic and european), because religion ascribes superiority over adherrents of any other religion. I know most religious people will claim they are humble, but yet will 'pity' anyone who doesnt follwo their one true God.

Now lets go back to the bible that has been touted as the TRUTh. The bible is a historical account of a specific people (in this case the Jews?), to the exclusion and later inclusion of other people that also existed. There are a couple of literatures that predate the bible and have correlating stories.

If we arent allowed to question the accounts we have been given, so are we saying we accept God isnt perfect? and that his word actually changeth? How do I reconcile my scientific knowledge that proves that in-breeding within families will lead to children with weaker immune systems, yet absorb the fact that God allowed incest when he only 'created' two beings.

if there were only 4poeple on earth when cain killed his brother and attempted to run from God. Who was he scared off when he asked God, 'what if the 'others' find him? And who was God protecting him from when he put a mark on him and proclaimed that "ANYONE that found cain' should not harm him. Bear in mind that Adam only went back to 'know' his wife after this accounts and bore seth. yet Esau went east and managed to raise a whole family unto himself. (Note, I am not questioning God, I am questioning the accounts that have been handed to me). Why give me a brain if I am not supposed to apply it to question things that don't add up? I personall don't think this is a sin.

I personally don't argue religion, and try not to convince anyone to see things or question them the way I do, cause religious people cop out and tell me it is all 'by faith', and you couldnt argue with that. But when people have questions, let them be, answer the questions, if you can, and if you can't shut up. But quit with all the condescending, hand the soul on the highway to hell a bible talk. Most people don't even know why they believe what they believe, except that they were born into it and have been indoctrinated with it, yet, they look down on other similar people born and indoctrinated into something different, and pity them because they are not 'saved'.

I will stop for now. But please let the poster be. He has questions in his mind, let him ask,

. . . . . What could be more perfect . . . . . . .

davidylan:

thou hypocrite . . . Volume 4, Book 52, Number 260:
Narrated Ikrima:

Ali burnt some people and this news reached Ibn 'Abbas, who said, "Had I been in his place I would not have burnt them, as the Prophet said, 'Don't punish (anybody) with Allah's Punishment.' No doubt, I would have killed them, for the Prophet said, 'If somebody (a Muslim) discards his religion, kill him.' "

You see the problem with religion? instead of answering the questions which the poster asked which i believe he has no answers to he is engaging his fellow religion apologist in a war of my god/holy book i better than your god/holy book. utter nonsense. like some one just said and i quote

Most people don't even know why they believe what they believe, except that they were born into it and have been indoctrinated with it, yet, they look down on other similar people born and indoctrinated into something different, and pity them because they are not 'saved'.
 

Trying to know God by the (letters) of the religion books will not only confuse you but may try to disconnect you from Him

You can only find God through your inner-self, reason why many think there is no God is because they are looking for God via letters of the holy books

If you sincerely want to know God, seek inner revelation of Him, you will find Him because His seed is inside of you. (even those that think He does not exist could find Him if they can diligently seek Him)