KarmaMod:

I was hoping you'd reply naijacutee's post, Sisi

Sisikill:

You know what. . . Scratch the not seeing eye to eye part, I think it more like he has already concluded on what I'm about and I'm kind of too lazy to care to change his mind.

  If there is ever a stronger reason why i never hesitate to label most "athiests" here as hypocrites . . . there you have it in clear bold letters. There are more muslims than christians on earth, with the exception of the Vatican NO OTHER NATION on earth regards itself as exclusively a christian theocracy . . . on the other hand there are a multitude of Islamic republics . . . YET 98% of the venom from athiests who believe God (in whatever form or so they claim) does not exist is reserved exclusively for christianity . . . WHY?
 

Mormons, Sango worshippers, buddhists, sikhs . . . all believe in some form of "god", an afterlife exclusive to adherents of the faith, a form of everlasting punishment for outsiders and some form of holy script . . . YET 99% of athiests are obsessed with the bible, heaven, hell, the 10 commandments . . . wHY?
 

Sugar attracts multitudes of insects, an equal quantity of salt does not . . . WHY?

What is it about christianity, Jesus Christ and the bible that muslims, athiests, agnostics ALWAYS want to read about? What is it about the christian idea of heaven that is so different from that of the sikhs, buddhists or muslims that the athiest is so desperate to prove does not exist?

Could it be that despite all the public posturing, somehow the conscience of man knows the truth even though he may deny it?

WHY are there 10,000 theories struggling to explain away the life of Christ and NONE exists for the life of mohammad?

The choice my dears is yours.   

KarmaMod:

I was hoping you'd reply naijacutee's post, Sisi

naijacutee:

I have long stopped replying to threads like these but please allow me indulge this once.

In addition to davidylan's post concerning people's obsession with God, can I just wonder why so many half-baked religious critics will stop at nothing to pick at straws, searching all corners of the internet for weak weapons of purposefully written jargon -  designed to spite religion, with particularly sharpened edges teasing at Christianity? Correct me if I'm wrong, but of all religious material that ever existed, never has any being so aggressively interrogated as the Bible - By people who read it with the doors of their minds firmly shut, while they skim through chapters, looking for sentences to add to their "evidence book". If you ask me, I will revert to the proverb "Around a flowering tree, one finds many insects." There must be something in this flowering tree called Christianity, that is pricking the minds of many, and has brought many insects from far and wide - right from when Jesus was 2!.

As for the person who was talking about God demanding money: When pastors collect 5 offerings in church, and the next day you see them in flashy cars - wouldn't it be foolish to assume that "God" demanded your money? Just because the pastor said something, doesn't always mean that God said so - Maybe the pastor knew that by putting the word "God" in the same sentence as "give", he would get more donations? He's human and used his brain, and position to collect your money and you are calling God into the situation? Why don't you use your own brain and position as the owner of the said monies, to judge how God really wants you to use your money for Him?

A Hint of how to give to God from the horses mouth:
(Matthew 25)
37"Then the righteous will answer him, 'Lord, when did we see you hungry and feed you, or thirsty and give you something to drink? 38When did we see you a stranger and invite you in, or needing clothes and clothe you? 39When did we see you sick or in prison and go to visit you?'

40"The King will reply, 'I tell you the truth, whatever you did for one of the least of these brothers of mine, you did for me.'

P.S: It is good you put the word  "truth" in quotes.

I’ve heard repeated here several times that Horus, an Egyptian god, is carbon copy of Jesus. The obvious implication by those that have made this statement is that Jesus is a copycat version of an earlier Egyptian deity. The purpose of this entry is to disembowel that proposition once and for all.
When I first heard that Horus was the inspiration for Jesus several years ago, I didn’t give it much credence because I couldn’t establish any source material for the claims. I still can’t, but the internet is as adept at allowing anybody and everybody to pass on misinformation.

Upon further research, I’ve concluded that this theory originated with Gerald Massey, an English poet, born 1828, died 1927. He published primarily poems, but had an interest in Egypt. He parlayed that interest in Egypt into several books and lectures in which he set forth the proposition that Horus was in essence the first Jesus, and Jesus was a cheap imitation. The primary basis for his writing is the Egyptian Book of the Dead. This is available on-line and you can easily look it up to read it yourself. Be forewarned that forced reading of this would be an extremely efficient form of torture.

It should be noted that Massey’s actual proposition was that Jesus was a copycat from more than just Horus. According to Massey, Jesus was a compilation of an innumerable number of Egyptian deities. There were over 2,000 deities who had every human and godlike characteristic one can think of, excepting Superman’s power to stop a speeding bullet.
Since Massey, there is a dearth of anybody with any credentials that has adopted a straight Horus=Jesus theory. There is a one individual that has adopted some of Massey’s thoughts and incorporated them into a book-The Christ Conspiracy. This appears to be the basis for the claims that I see. The author is Acharya S. Her website is http://www.truthbeknown.com I note that Richard Price, a noted Christ Myther, and one that I take much more seriously then Acharya, said the following:

“Those of use who uphold any version of the controversial Christ Myth theory find ourselves immediately the object not just of criticism, but even of ridicule. And it causes us chagrin to be lumped together with certain writers with whom we share the Christ Myth butt little else,

His other criticism, like mine, is that she uses very dated sources (19th Century) who were in Price’s words “eccentrics, freethinkers, and theosophists.”
Les, I am using your post from 1/3/05 as an example of the claims because you carry more credibility than most. That said here are the claims and what I have found:

Claim #1-Horus and Jesus are born from a virgin.

Horus’s mother is Isis. Isis was married to Osiris. We do not know for what length of time, but presumably the marriage was consummated. Whether it was or wasn’t doesn’t matter though. After Osiris is killed, Isis puts him back together again (he was hacked into 14 pieces) except for his penis which was tossed in a river or a lake. Iris fashions a substitute penis for him, humps him and here comes Horus. There is nothing virginal about that.

Claim #2-Both Horus and Jesus were born to a Mary and Joseph. (Seb)

As noted Isis is Horus’s mother’s name not Mary. In addition, Seb is not Horus’s father, Osiris is. Seb is Osiris’s father. Further, Seb is a distinct name from Joseph. Putting them side by side does not make them synonyms, and that appears to be what was done here.

Claim #3-Both were born of royal descent.

This is accurate.

Claim #4-Both births were announced by angels and witnessed by shepherds.

I can find nothing that mentions that the birth of Horus was announced by an angel or witnessed by shepherds. I have found that Horus was born in a swamp, which is a pretty unlikely place for shepherds. In addition Acharya mentions that Horus was born in a cave. Massey makes no mention of this, although he does represent that Mithra was born in a cave.

Claim #5-Both were heralded by stars and angels.

There is no star that heralded Horus’s birth nor is there any angel announcing it. Archarya in a footnote in The Origins of Christianity indicates that that there are three stars named the three kings in Orion and then relates this to the birth of Jesus. When we look to the stories regarding Horus, we find no star or angel announcing his birth. To the extent that Acharya S relies upon Massey and Massey relies upon what is depicted in the panels at Luxor see (from an atheist) further regarding virgin birth and pronouncement by angels http://www.frontline-apologetics.com/carrier_luxor_inscription.htm

Claim #6-Both had later visitors (Horus-3 deities and Jesus-3 wisemen.)

There is no indication that there ever were 3 wisemen. The bible never mentions the number of wisemen, nor is there any document that reflects 3 deities at the birth of Horus. See the website referenced in Claim #5.

Claim #7-Both had murder plots against them.

There is mention that Seth did want to kill Horus, and Herod wanted to kill Jesus. so this is accurate.

Claim#8-Both came of age at 12, were baptized and their baptizers were executed.

There is no indication that Horus was preaching in a temple when he was 12. In fact, Massey indicates that Hours the child was depicted as a “weakling.” That doesn’t jive with story of Jesus preaching in the temple. Again this appears to have been a confabulation from Acharya and repeated by others.

Horus was never baptized in any of the Horus stories. In addition, Acharya mentions that John the Baptist is actually Anup the Baptizer. This individual is never mentioned anywhere in any Horus account. There is not even a footnote in Archaya’s on-line work The Origins of Christianity to support this. There is nothing.

Claim #9-Both had 12 disciples.

According to the Horus accounts, Horus had four semi-gods that were followers. There is some indication of 16 human followers and an unknown number of blacksmiths that went into battle with him. Horus did not have 12 disciples. Jesus reportedly did. Acharya failed to give a footnote to support this.

Massey points to a mural in the Book of Hades in which there are twelve reapers. Horus is not present in this scene. For Massey to make this connection he goes to a different scene within the same mural. In this scene there is a picture of a god whose name is the Master of Joy. Horus is never depicted although in other murals the artists do depict Horus. Had the artists ascribed 12 reapers in any relation to Horus all they had to do was put Horus at the scene. They did not.

Claim #10-Both walked on water.

Horus didn’t, or at least there is no record that I can find that he did. Massey does not maintain that Hours did. Massey uses wild conjecture to connect the story of fish man, Oannes, not Horus, to Jesus. Oannes came out of the sea during the day, and went back into the sea at night. Massey makes the two analogous because by his calculations, Jesus walked on water during the day.

As to Acharya, she as usual provides nothing to substantiate this.

Claim #11-Both performed miracles.

This is true although the miracles were different in scope and nature.

Claim #12 Both exorcised demons and raised Lazarus.

The actual claim is that Horus raised Osiris from the dead and that the name Osiris morphed to Lazarus. It doesn’t matter because Horus did not bring Osiris back to life. There is no mention of this in any document regarding the story. Horus did avenge Osiris’s death, but that did not raise Osiris from the dead.

Claim #13-Both held a Sermon on the Mount; both were transfigured on a mountain, died by crucifixion along with two thieves and were buried in tombs where they paid a quick visit to Hell and then rose from the dead after 3 days time, both resurrections were witness by women, and both will supposedly reign for 1,000 years in the Millennium.

These are the most damning claims if they were proven true in my opinion. Yet, I can locate none of this. No sermon, no transfiguration, certainly no crucifixion w/ two thieves, no trip to hell and no resurrection. There was an incident in which Horus was torn to pieces and Iris requested the crocodile god to fish him out of the water he was tossed into, which was done, but that’s it. I am at a loss to refute this because I can not find anything to support it.

Massey does compares a story about the Autumn Equinox related to Osiris, not Horus, as the symbolic crucifixion. There is no indication that Horus is involved in any way. There is no mention by Massey of any Sermon on the Mount. No mention or any actual crucifixion, no two thieves, no burial in a tomb. Massey does not maintain that anything of the sort occurred with Horus.

In short, of the claims outlined in this entry, I find the comparison between Horus and Jesus to consist of the following: they were of royal descent, they allegedly worked miracles and there were murder plots against them.

Pastor AIO:

It seems that as just about anybody can make a film and write a book these days not to mention the internet making it easy for the proliferation of all sorts of information, rubbish and truth, it is all the more important to follow claims, references and citations to the very end.

(don't know if there's a word like that)

Chrisbenogor:

I wish we could just take a post and debate on the issue and 99% of the time here it almost always shift to personal attacks. I totally get your drift sisikill I cannot understand why some take it personal truth of the matter is we almost all come here with a position and we are not looking for anybody to change it true.

Your post has got loads of info I loved it, if I may ask though what do you think of christianity nowadays and this idea of go and read your bible yourself when obviously it would be difficult to understand most of it given the translations and context with which they were written.
I was reading about banned from the bible have you seen it?

When we have only the cannon to work with, we tend to see early Christianity very narrowing-ly but the reality is when we go back, when we look at just this amazing variety of texts, then we understand that people had various different ways of looking at who Jesus was, what is relationship to God was, what is relationship to the individual believer was and that to me is the tremendous loss of only having a select few books which have traveled through history in the Cannon