www.chxta..com

Over the last two weeks ever since I wrote this story, I have been involved in a series of arguments with other members of one of my main internet fora, Nairaland. See, when I write something that I feel would be thorny, I tend to publish it simultaneously in all associated forums.

I am a member of at least 20 different internet forums you see, but very active in two: Nairaland and Juventuz. I may have been active in Naijaryders, but I've come to see the place as full of a few really smart people, and a lot of block-heads (apologies to Henry and Amara). If you want to see me active elsewhere, then you are more likely to find me giving out Windows, Webmaster and/or Networking advice (getting help sometimes) on Computing.net or asking for Linux help on the same forum.

In my years of being a netizen (citizen of the internet) I have encountered Nigerians in various parts of the place, ranging from the early days of Cybereagles to the establishment of Nairaland. I've met a few of them personally after meeting them online. Tochukwu and Amara are two of these. I've also come to realise that while some are highly intelligent people, some are just dimwits with a lot of time (and an internet connection) on their hands. I don't know any Naija netizen who is a 419er though.

Now the main reason for writing this is because of an argument that has been raging on in Nairaland about the basis of Nigerian unity.

First things first, I think anyone who knows me would know that my stand on the unity of the Federal Republic of Nigeria is firm and unshakeable. But the utterances of some members of Nairaland, notably Nutter and Afeni make me pause to think about my stand. And after due consultation (with myself and I), my stand remains intact, so I feel duty bound to say something in defense of the unity of this country lest these two characters spread their treason and sedition further.

First some background (my interpretation) of these fellows.

Nutter is a Nigerian(?), Igbo, Catholic, based in the United Kingdom. He joined Nairaland about three months ago, and has182 posts. Most of those posts (especially in the Politics thread) are very anti-Nigeria. He has a forum signature saying: Proud Catholic, proud Igbo. Hated and envied in equal measure!

I don't know how old this guy is, but from what I can see from his posts, he has been in the UK for quite a while (probably all his life) and has lost touch with the realities of the situation on the ground in Nigeria. One thing I must give to him though is that he is quite an intelligent fellow, his arguments brought out a lot in me during the webspat on whether the Igboman is or is not his enemy. But I think he has it wrong, something I would address in due course.

Afeni is a Nigerian(?), Yoruba, based in the United States. He joined Nairaland two months ago and has already made up to 2556 posts as at writing this, an average of 51 per day. Talk about someone who has a lot of time on his hands.

The child is 19 years old, and spews forth a lot of rubbish. What I've been unable to accertain i whether he is a victim of our own bad educational system (Obasanjo are you listening?) or whether he is a victim of the unequal educational system that abounds in the US depending on what 'hood' you grow up in. Whichever way, the boy is of very questionable intellect as can be seen when he goes of on a tangent raving about the origin of the Nigerian flag and its significance.

I am not going to waste any more time responding to this youngman who is of very poor educational heritage because I am at work. I am taking time out to type this because I consider it serious enough to respond to, and I also have some time to myself at the moment (I am a network engineer, and I have the network up and running very smoothly see).

Nutter said here that:
"During the debate for the Independence of Nigeria the view of the Secretary of State at that time, with which I agreed, was that in Nigeria we should attempt to put together a large and powerful state with ample material resources which play a leading part in the affairs of the continent and of the world. This was attractive but it involved forcing several different ethnic and cultural groups into a single political structure. In exculpation, it must be said that we did not then have the example of the collapse of Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union before our eyes. It should now be clear for all but the willfully blind to see that it is extremely dangerous to force diverse racial and social entities into a single rigid political structure."

And,
"But in retrospect, it is clear that this was a grave mistake which has cost many lives and will probably continue to do so. It should have been better to establish several smaller states in a free trade area."

Well, all that is true. The British created Nigeria purely for their own economic benefit. There is no doubting that. For crying out loud, what other motives informed the amalgamation of 250 (that's a large number) ethnic groups into one entity and then building just two rail lines (North to South-West, North to South-East) to serve this large geographical entity that is at least four times the size of Great Britain, other than economic?

Lord Lugard it should be remembered was a servant of the British crown, not the Nigerian people. So his legacy couldn't have been for us. His loyalty was to them and them he served very well.

The history of Nigeria since the 1914 amalgamation has a few instances of ethnic clashes, which have come to a head more than once, and resulted first in the progroms of 1966, then the 1967-1970 civil war.

Nutter also brings up the example of the United Kingdom which in itself is made up of component parts (England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales). Then he proceeds to let us know that they are all autonomous parts (or is it semi-autonomous?). But he forgets to tell us that at least they have remained as one country, even though the Irish (Catholics at least) keep saying that they want to go and join their brethren in the Republic of Ireland. The point here is that the more intelligent minds among them realise that there is strenght in unity. England, Scotland and Wales as individual countries would be nonentities in the global scheme of things (hell even as the UK, they are struggling to keep up, what more if they break up?).

Some people might want to bring up China, but it is easy to forget that China itself is not a homogenous nation. Very easy to forget that there is no such language as Chinese. We have Mandarin, Cantonese and a few others. Russia is not a homogenous nation either. Neither is the United States. The only world power that probably can lay claim to being homogenous is Japan, and even they have had their own civil wars.

But you see, these countries do not share something in common with Nigeria, that is a colonial master.

Now we look at an emerging world power, India. India was the country reffered to in the 19th century as the jewel in the crown. The crown in question being the crown of Queen Victoria, the British sovereign.

A quick history lesson for some of you: while the British began serious expansion into the area that was later to be known as Nigeria somewhere around 1861, by 1856 most of India was already under the rule of the British East India Company (equivalent to the Royal Niger Company). India like Nigeria was amalgamated by the British. India like Nigeria is named after a river (the Indus, Nigeria is the Niger). India like Nigeria is multi-ethnic. Nigeria has a mere 250 ethnic groups, India has at least 4365! Unlike Nigeria (and her neighbour Pakistan), the military stayed out of politics, so India grew.

Looking through a history of India since independence (they fought a war and became India, Pakistan and Bangladesh), looking through their history of religous and ethnic strife since 1947, and seeing that even with all that they have stayed together and are now in such a position that the United States looks at them askance, then why should we break up what we have?

Someone mentioned Liechtenstein when I asked for a landlocked country that is doing well in order to support the argument for Biafra. You only need to look at the country's population (34,521) to realise that it is incomparable to Igboland.

I could say more, but I want to move on to another issue, so I will save my ammo for the counter-arguments that would surely follow,

nice one, something for the losers

Way to go chxta. Good to know that there are Nigerians out there with great minds. Rats! Now I'm going to have to pay attention to everything you post!

grrrr

Chxta,

Why don't you tell us your tribe,your age and how long you've being living on the Rock from the Sun

You believe in One Nigeria no doubt,but who pays the price for your priced Unity.You probably don't believe in divorce,if a Union is not working why for it?
You must be benefiting from the status quo,all the same you are entitled to your opinion

A rather long Thesis.

Cheers

@Chyxta,

I don’t see how a ‘biography’ of ‘Nutter’ helps your position but hey, to each their own. If it was to alert members of this forum to my pro-Biafran leanings then, thanks. It is not a secret. I however feel it necessary to mention, contrary to what you may want others to believe, that a) I haven’t lived in the UK all my life, b) I went to boarding school IN Nigeria (please refer to some of my recent posts), c) my first degree was acquired FROM a Nigerian university, d) I served that country as a Youth Corper, and e) I moved to the UK for further study and continue to participate actively in Nigeria-related matters.

Now, if I have lost touch with the goings-on in Nigeria, why is it that millions of people IN Nigeria are saying the same things I am? Have they lost touch too? I mentioned on another thread that:

"The ultimate position of One Nigeria advocates is one where they state: "why are you not in Nigeria making this noise". They fail to admit (perhaps even to themselves) that there are many in Nigeria who at this very moment are screaming about injustice from the rooftops. There are many who have indicated a burning need to pull out of the failed contraption that is Nigeria. There are many who now conduct trade in goods and services using Biafran Pounds. There are many who fly the Biafran Flag of the Rising Sun with enormous pride. Millions are card-carrying members of MASSOB. Millions more have demonstrated a willingness to 'down tools and close shop' whenever called upon to do so. Are these people not in Nigeria? Let us for once acknowledge the facts that stare us in the face. The clamour for a pull-out does not emanate from outside Nigeria's shores. By now, given the numerous examples one has as reference points, there should be no disputation on that".


So Chxta, in your drive to ensure that Nigeria blunders on in its present despicable form, has your argument reduced to one where you turn the searchlight on the location of those calling for change. That method is not only getting a bit tired, it provides no shelter from reality; time to change tune. Those of us outside Nigeria are not alone in our contempt. If we were, you’d have a point. We are not, so you don’t.


That aside, I couldn’t help but notice the many inaccuracies in your post. I am yet to decide on if these were honest errors of if they were a result of boundless mischievous energy. Your subsequent response(s) will move me swiftly along the path of decision-making.

Chxta:

Nutter also brings up the example of the United Kingdom which in itself is made up of component parts (England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales). Then he proceeds to let us know that they are all autonomous parts (or is it semi-autonomous?). But he forgets to tell us that at least they have remained as one country, even though the Irish (Catholics at least) keep saying that they want to go and join their brethren in the Republic of Ireland. The point here is that the more intelligent minds among them realise that there is strenght in unity. England, Scotland and Wales as individual countries would be nonentities in the global scheme of things (hell even as the UK, they are struggling to keep up, what more if they break up?).

You missed the point of my UK example. How do you think UK unity is guaranteed? By force? My exact quote was:

“To pacify the Scots and the Welsh and to give them a sense of belonging, they are allowed to operate as pseudo-autonomous entities. They have their own houses of parliament, their own country flags, sports teams, and their own anthems. Additionally, Scotland prints its own version of the British Pound. The message that we get from the British style of governance is that you cannot isolate people and still expect them to carry on blindly swearing allegiance to an indivisible entity. The British who amalgamated over 250 different groups in Nigeria simply for commercial reasons, went back home and did the right thing for themselves. Now we are expected to die in a failed arrangement when the authors of that arrangement do not see it as workable among only 3 different groups. Contrast that with our 250 and the futility of the situation becomes clear.”


What I put across was a British system which promises all its nations a sense of belonging. It assures the nations that their culture, practices and general way-of-doing-things will not be smothered. Above all, the system promotes a sense of equity. This sense of equity is missing in Nigeria. Why did the British act properly towards themselves and improperly towards us? More importantly, why should we accept it?

Chxta:


Nutter said here that:
"During the debate for the Independence of Nigeria the view of the Secretary of State at that time, with which I agreed, was that in Nigeria we should attempt to put together a large and powerful state with ample material resources which play a leading part in the affairs of the continent and of the world. This was attractive but it involved forcing several different ethnic and cultural groups into a single political structure. In exculpation, it must be said that we did not then have the example of the collapse of Yugoslavia and the Soviet Union before our eyes. It should now be clear for all but the willfully blind to see that it is extremely dangerous to force diverse racial and social entities into a single rigid political structure."

And,
"But in retrospect, it is clear that this was a grave mistake which has cost many lives and will probably continue to do so. It should have been better to establish several smaller states in a free trade area."

You are wrong. As I made clear, those words were spoken by Sir Peter Smithers, the Parliamentary Private Secretary of State in the Colonial Office from 1952 to 1959. Even though I agree with every single word in those quotes, do read them again not as words written by me, but words spoken by someone in-the-know who has no reason to be biased.

Chxta:

Some people might want to bring up China, but it is easy to forget that China itself is not a homogenous nation. Very easy to forget that there is no such language as Chinese. We have Mandarin, Cantonese and a few others. Russia is not a homogenous nation either. Neither is the United States. The only world power that probably can lay claim to being homogenous is Japan, and even they have had their own civil wars.

But you see, these countries do not share something in common with Nigeria, that is a colonial master.

Again, you are wrong. The US was colonised by Britain (refer to American History) and China was colonised by the Empire of Japan (refer to Chinese "Education in National Humiliation”).

Chxta:

Someone mentioned Liechtenstein when I asked for a landlocked country that is doing well in order to support the argument for Biafra. You only need to look at the country's population (34,521) to realise that it is incomparable to Igboland.

I believe the countries I mentioned were Luxembourg and Switzerland. However, your insertion of population signals a movement of the goalpost. And, further, I pointed out that Port-Harcourt is an Igbo city so Igboland is not landlocked. Moreover, what does the difference in population signify? That Nd’Igbo will be choked in a new Biafra? Well, we not only did it before, but it is improper to assume that all Igbo would relocate to Biafra after it is actualised. The Igbo are a mercantilist people. We will always continue to settle in distant parts of the world. It is our nature.


I asked before but you ignored my challenge. I’ll ask again. Can you honestly list 30 of Nigeria’s 250 ethnic groups from memory? How can you fight for Nigerian ‘unity’ when you don’t know the people that make-up the very country you seek to defend? People like me have been accused of attempting to destabilise the country but that makes me laugh because it suggests that the country is stable in the first instance. We all know it isn’t and we also know why.

If you have any evidence which supports your assertion that Nigeria is better-off in its present form I am yet to see it. I see a nation that closes its eyes while the Igbo are routinely massacred in large numbers. I see a nation that demonizes a whole people yet expects them to 'tow the unity line' without question. I see a nation that slits Igbo throats and then expects them to apologise for bleeding. I see a nation that hounds MASSOB and similar organizations instead of asking why those organizations have the support they do. What do you see?

interesting thread

so p/h is now an igbo town? I thought it was ikwerre? when it suits you the ikwerres are igbo, when it doesn't they are outcasts

just my 2cents

its been an engaging discussion otherwise

debosky:

interesting thread

so p/h is now an igbo town? I thought it was ikwerre? when it suits you the ikwerres are igbo, when it doesn't they are outcasts

just my 2cents

its been an engaging discussion otherwise

interesting thread - Thank you, sir.

so p/h is now an igbo town? - Yes. It has always been. What do you mean ‘now’?

I thought it was ikwerre? - Yes. And? The Ikwerre are Igbo.

when it suits you the ikwerres are igbo, when it doesn't they are outcasts - When it suits who exactly?

just my 2cents - More like 2 kobo, mate. That is, worthless. Of no use to man or beast.

@Chyxta,

It has just come to my notice that you have reproduced a copy of your first post on another site (www.chxta..com). That is your prerogative. However, as my responses to your post will not also be posted on this other site, I find it imperative that you immediately amend the quotes you ascribed to me to reflect their true originator. I speak of the quotes made by Sir Peter Smithers. I would appreciate it if this is done ASAP. It is highly unethical to leave things as they are. Thank you.

Again, you are wrong. The US was colonised by Britain (refer to American History) and China was colonised by the Empire of Japan (refer to Chinese "Education in National Humiliation”).

I saw that error last night.

Even saying that the Chinese was colonized by the Japanese does not go far enough.

In fact the British did in China what they first did in Africa.

They signed treaties with the defeated Chinese that made it look as if China was still independent but in fact China was bowing to the British in their own land.

The opium wars were about the Chinese attempt to get their people off of drugs and the British forcing them to stop trying to get rid of addicts who purchased British Drugs.

Basically forcing Chinese people to be drug addicts so that the Brittish could get rich.

Britain gave China a serious beating and nobody should doubt it.

Chinese officials had no right to sell their goods or buy any goods unless the British first signed off on it.

The Chinese may have retained a 'yellow' faced ruler but have no doubt about it, they were also 'colonized' and existed in this British dominated state for a very very long time.

Yesterday when I was less busy, no one replied. Today has started with a lot of work sadly. But when I am free, I will return for this one,

Chxta, India should not be used an a comparison to Nigeria. You see, 82 percent of Indians are Hindu, so in that alone, there is basis for unity. Now, name something that over 60 percent of Nigerians belong to?

Is Hindu an ethnic group?

Hindu is a religion. Looks like someone needs to read a little more before making references to India.

I am starting to think you are just an ignorant old man. On the bright side, if I am right, you would be dead soon. That would be one less person that would have to be killed during the rebirth.

You really don't know the meaning of a rhethorical question do you?

You base your assertation that Nigeria should break up on ethnicity. I then show you that India has more ethnic groups than Naija, only for you to turn around to talk about religion by bringing the Hindus up.

Or should I have made the question clearer for you?

Is Hindu a religion or an ethnic group? It is a religion. Since it is a religion, are its adherents Urdu, Punjabi or Singh? You find adherents among all three.

Is Islam a religion or an ethnic group? It is a religion. Since it is a religion, are its adherents Hausa, Yoruba or Etsako? You find adherents among all three.

For the information of Nutter and Drusilla, China wasn't colonised by Japan and England. Parts of China were. I still have a lot more to say, but I am only restricted to typing short replies at a time. My desk is full.

Wat does Afeni avin alot of time in is hands gat to do with Defensin Naija

beyunce, good point. In fact, 80 percent of his original post is about discrediting other posters.

I guess if you have nothing good to say about something, find something bad to say about everything else.

Nutter:

I asked before but you ignored my challenge. I’ll ask again. Can you honestly list 30 of Nigeria’s 250 ethnic groups from memory? How can you fight for Nigerian ‘unity’ when you don’t know the people that make-up the very country you seek to defend? People like me have been accused of attempting to destabilise the country but that makes me laugh because it suggests that the country is stable in the first instance. We all know it isn’t and we also know why.

If you have any evidence which supports your assertion that Nigeria is better-off in its present form I am yet to see it. I see a nation that closes its eyes while the Igbo are routinely massacred in large numbers. I see a nation that demonizes a whole people yet expects them to 'tow the unity line' without question. I see a nation that slits Igbo throats and then expects them to apologise for bleeding. I see a nation that hounds MASSOB and similar organizations instead of asking why those organizations have the support they do. What do you see?

Yes I can make such a list with all confidence. This is the first time I am noting that question, sorry about that.

Afeni:

beyunce, good point. In fact, 80 percent of his original post is about discrediting other posters.

I guess if you have nothing good to say about something, find something bad to say about everything else.

The forum has a search engine, so prove that statement about 80%. I think I tend to reply most posts with credible, well thought out responses, and I accept when I go wrong.

The reference to you and Nutter in the first post was to show the difference between the both of you. He is intellectually stimulating to spar with, you my friend, are a dimwit.

Off-topic: Seun please can you change your code a bit? Why is it that when I type three dots I see a comma?

so u ave met tochukuw. da means u stay at Abj.

beyunce:

so u ave met tochukuw. da means u stay at Abj.

Used to. Lived and worked there for 2 years before coming to Lagos at the end of last year. I am a network engineer, and have worked with companies that do jobs all over Naija. With the exception of Taraba, Kebbi and Osun, I have been to, and spent time in all the 36 states of the country, so I tend to get pissed when people who haven't used their eyes to see and their ears to hear and their mouths to interact with the various peoples of Naija start making noise.

Chxta:

Used to. Lived and worked there for 2 years before coming to Lagos at the end of last year. I am a network engineer, and have worked with companies that do jobs all over Naija. With the exception of Taraba, Kebbi and Osun, I have been to, and spent time in all the 36 states of the country, so I tend to get pissed when people who haven't used their eyes to see and their ears to hear and their mouths to interact with the various peoples of Naija start making noise.

So which people come dey make noise now.

let's turn the clock back a little, and look at the situation of things prior to colonisation. the hausa had a massive empire, and were on the verge of swallowing up what was left of the oyo empire and making the yoruba their vassals.
the bini generally ruled the south, and were on the verge of swallowing the autonomous collection of villages called the igbo.

Nigeria as it is currently configured, is a grossly unfair state. However, a break-up will simply lead to the various ethnic groups being picked off one by one by a suddenly powerful neighbour. Like it or not, we need Nigeria to survive.

madlawyer1:

let's turn the clock back a little, and look at the situation of things prior to colonisation. the hausa had a massive empire, and were on the verge of swallowing up what was left of the oyo empire and making the yoruba their vassals.
the bini generally ruled the south, and were on the verge of swallowing the autonomous collection of villages called the igbo.

The Yoruba's lost the Oyo kingdom capital that was located somewhere near Illorin and were forced to move down to the forest regions of Southern Nigeria (near Abeokuta). The flies in the southern region made it impossible for the invading Muslims to use their horses and once they tried to invade on foot, they got soundly defeated. Hence the reason why majority of southern Yorubas are christians or traditional worhsipers.

uh, you, yes you, the dude above. yahoo id, ? (if any)

YIM: afenipc

Why, is there something I should know?

Chxta,

Its true India was under British Control longer than the Niger Area.When India got her Independence from the UK it was immediately partitioned.
Muslim Pakistan and Hindu India,Nero and Ghandi realized that you could not force a union because they are the same colour and ate similar
foods.

Nigeria's union was forced,the union was however accepted because everyone had a common cause,the British must go.
Whats wrong if a section don't want to remain in the Union?

The millions of people who have died in the hands of Islamic butchers to the billions of Dollars from the Niger Delta is more than enough price to pay
for your Nigeria.

@afeni, they didn't move to abeokuta from old oyo as you suggested it was more like Ibadan and Oyo town.

Hausa/Fulani calvary was superior to Oyo's calvary. To be specific it was tse-tse flies that helped the yoruba resist further invasion since the hausa and fulanis depended heavily on their calvary and their horses where infected with sleeping sickness. Maybe yoruba footmen were stronger than hausa/fulani footmen, I dont know.

@Chxta,

Once again I request that you make the necessary amendments to quotes credited to me on the other site. You say you are busy and that is understandable. However, the time you have taken to make several posts today would have been more than sufficient to make the required change. The current portrayal suggests I plagiarised the words of Sir Smithers.  Some may have visited your site and left with that impression. Aside from an amendment therefore, a retraction is also in order. I am extremely finicky about these matters. With every second you delay, the handshake goes further and further beyond the elbow. Please act swiftly. Thank you.

i suppose, just want to run a little IQ test. Chxta thinks of you as an empty barrell loud mouthed farce, lets see how true that is.

uh, nutter, yahoo id ? me seeks conversation with thy.

Labelle, we can chat 11 hours from now, or whenever you are avaible. I am heading out for the rest of the day. Peace and good luck.