sino:


For example, Qaradawi was criticized for his fatwa on shaking the opposite sex, and when I read the Sheikh's submission, it wasn't as painted by the critics, funny enough, the Saudi King who had a handshake was not criticized, but excuses were found for his action(s). Personally I would have wanted to quote Qaradawi on the issue, for the fact that the King is 81 years old! And is highly likely not to be interested in sexual relations, coupled with the event makes the whole thing a non issue.

Well, may Allah (SWT) guide us aright. ameen

Am interested in the bold part.

# First, Sheik Qardawi is entitled to his Fatwa and obviously its not bounded on anybody.

# Second, Allah in His wisdom and knowledge absolved absolved Hijab for Old women (who have reach menopause and lose their femininity). Quran talks about this specifically. What about Old men?

Here, age is not an excuse. Generally, men's sexuality no matter the age don't die easily except there is a medical problem.

# However, here we talk of an alleged world Muslim leader. Everything and anything he does speaks volume of "Islam" than his individuality. What a Muslim political leader do publicly speaks far louder than what 100 scholars say/preach publicly. That's why Islam did not separate church from the state, politics from religion.


# If they find excuse for the aged King, what about his newly Crowned Prince, Muhammad Ibn Salman, and other ruling class members? They also shook hands with ladies constantly. Pics attached.

# What about the Saudi, land of Kitab wa Sunnah's highest medallion honour they bestowed to the Kuffar?


# These people have displayed the opposite of the Quran:

Surah Al-Fath, Verse 29:

Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves;

# They've been harsh against their Muslim brothers, and generous upon the Kuffar.

# Imagine, Saudi authority in their so-called sharia law, declared shaking hands with woman haram, uncovering heads by women in the land of "Sunnah", haram, and seeking helps from kuffar, haram yet the ruling class publicly violating these laws of God. What kind of life is that? I do not need to lecture you (according to the Qur'an) how bad it is in that kind of lifestyle where you command and compelled people to abide by laws and you opposed those laws (privately or publicly).

AlBaqir:


Am interested in the bold part.

# First, Sheik Qardawi is entitled to his Fatwa and obviously its not bounded on anybody.

# Second, Allah in His wisdom and knowledge absolved absolved Hijab for Old women (who have reach menopause and lose their femininity). Quran talks about this specifically. What about Old men?

Here, age is not an excuse. Generally, men's sexuality no matter the age don't die easily except there is a medical problem.

# However, here we talk of an alleged world Muslim leader. Everything and anything he does speaks volume of "Islam" than his individuality. What a Muslim political leader do publicly speaks far louder than what 100 scholars say/preach publicly. That's why Islam did not separate church from the state, politics from religion.


# If they find excuse for the aged King, what about his newly Crowned Prince, Muhammad Ibn Salman, and other ruling class members? They also shook hands with ladies constantly. Pics attached.

# What about the Saudi, land of Kitab wa Sunnah's highest medallion honour they bestowed to the Kuffar?


# These people have displayed the opposite of the Quran:

Surah Al-Fath, Verse 29:

Muhammad is the Apostle of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves;

# They've been harsh against their Muslim brothers, and generous upon the Kuffar.

# Imagine, Saudi authority in their so-called sharia law, declared shaking hands with woman haram, uncovering heads by women in the land of "Sunnah", haram, and seeking helps from kuffar, haram yet the ruling class publicly violating these laws of God. What kind of life is that? I do not need to lecture you (according to the Qur'an) how bad it is in that kind of lifestyle where you command and compelled people to abide by laws and you opposed those laws (privately or publicly).

I guess you didn’t read Qaradawi’s fatwa, and I do not force anyone to accept this opinion, but rather, bringing another view with valid arguments and evidences, so all your pictures and allegations are not necessary, I do not seek to criticize them.

The introductory statement of Qaradawi reads as follows:

“Firstly, it is prohibited to shake hands with a woman if there is fear of provoking sexual desire or enjoyment on the part of either one of them or if there is fear of temptation. This is based on the general rule that blocking the means to evil is obligatory, especially if its signs are clear. This ruling is ascertained in the light of what has been mentioned by Muslim jurists that a man touching one of his mahrams or having khalwah(privacy) with her moves to the prohibited, although it is originally permissible, if there is fear offitnah(temptation) or provocation of desire.

Secondly, there is a dispensation in shaking hands with old women concerning whom there is no fear of desire. The same applies to the young girl concerning whom there is no fear of desire or temptation. The same ruling applies if the person is an old man concerning whom there is no fear of desire. This is based on what has been narrated on the authority of Abu Bakr As-Siddiq (may Allah be pleased with him) that he used to shake hands with old women. Also, it is reported that `Abdullah ibn Az-Zubair hired an old woman to nurse him when he was sick, and she used to wink at him and pick lice from his head. This is also based on what has been mentioned in the Glorious Qur’an in respect of the old barren women, as they are given dispensation with regard to their outer garments. Almighty Allah says in this regard: “As for women past child bearing, who have no hope of marriage, it is no sin for them if they discard their (outer) clothing in such a way as not to show adornment. But to refrain is better for them. Allah is Hearer, Knower.” (An-Nur: 60)”

In addition to this, Allah (SWT) states in the Qur’an again:

And tell the believing women to lower their gaze and guard their chastity, and not to reveal their adornments except what normally appears. Let them draw their veils over their chests, and not reveal their ˹hidden˺ adornments except to their husbands, their fathers, their fathers-in-law, their sons, their stepsons, their brothers, their brothers’ sons or sisters’ sons, their fellow women, those ˹bondwomen˺ in their possession, male attendants with no desire, or children who are still unaware of women’s unclothedness. Let them not stomp their feet, drawing attention to their hidden adornments. Turn to Allah in repentance all together, O believers, so that you may be successful. (An-Nur:31)

The bold in the above verse has also been translated to mean old men. Thus, if it is permissible for a female to display her adornment in front of such male, shaking hands would also be permissible, since the reason behind prohibition cannot be established.
With regards to the age of a male and his sexual desires, it is not that difficult to understand that as we age the functions of our body diminishes, including sexual acuity.

“Erectile Function: Normal age-related change in erectile function will affect sexual desire. These symptoms include a decrease in blood flow to the scrotum and penis; reduced tensing of the scrotal sac and delayed erection. Where a younger man may achieve a full erection in seconds, an older man may require several minutes to attain a similar response. More time and more direct penile stimulation may be necessary to achieve the desired results. Having a cooperative partner who is happy to provide manual and/or oral pleasuring will help facilitate and augment arousal. Assuming a mental attitude of nonjudgment, focusing your attention on the pleasurable sensations will help create the comfortable and relaxed atmosphere that promotes sexual arousal and intimacy. Being self-critical and demanding of a “performance” or comparing yourself to the way you responded when younger will create anxiety and stress. The stress response reduces reduce blood flow and hence, erectile function.

More bad news: penile sensitivity also decreases with age. Bottom line: to compensate you need to have more time for sexual play and a tranquil, comfortable sexual “climate” in order to maximize blood flow and sensitivity. Being able to receive direct manual or oral stimulation prior to intromission and possibly at periods throughout the sex act will help to sustain erection until orgasm. “Adapt or perish” as they say. If you try to hold onto the way it was and resists the inevitable; that is, physical change accompanying aging, you will no doubt experience more pressure and anxiety. The male phallus does not like pressure and will be likely to fold in its presence. While penile rigidity declines gradually beginning in most men at age 60, couples can compensate by experimenting with more creative and novel pre-intimacy and stimulation as well as different coital positions.” Source

sino:


I guess you didn’t read Qaradawi’s fatwa, and I do not force anyone to accept this opinion, but rather, bringing another view with valid arguments and evidences, so all your pictures and allegations are not necessary, I do not seek to criticize them.

# "All my pictures and allegations". Which allegations? We are not debating here, man. Tell me Saudi king and his ruling classes DID NOT:

1. Constantly shake hands with women

2. Sought (and seeking) helps from Kuffar, enemies of Islam

3. Honour Kuffar and enemies of Islam with the land of Kitab wa Sunnah's highest honorary medals.


# Thanks for posting al-Qardawi's view. Those who will read and learn or uphold his submissions will do. I, personally, not interested.

# What I can deduce is that you find what the King (and by extension the rest of the Saudi ruling class) do, not good and not Islamic yet you distance yourself from their criticism. However, going stylishly to provide excuses for their wrongdoing is what I question. To classical Salafiyyah, Qardawi or whatever his saying or fatwa is, is batil.


# Demmzy15, on another thread posted "an Imam" who tried to defend the King. He says, "it was a mistake, and a one time thing". I replied with evidence that its a usual custom of the King to shake his "eminent kuffaar female visitors". And unfortunately by extension, those around the king emulate him in this sinful act. And why did the Saudi scholars refused to address this whereby the ruling class break the laws of " Kitab wa Sunnah" but impose it on their subject? And the bunch of nuisance we have at home keep on suffocating us that Saudi is a land of Kitab wa Sunnah.


# You also, stylishly try to defend the King using "age theory and desire for sex theory". Many in no time will hide under this theory (in fact people already use it)/that " I can shake woman without having feelings for her". Can Nabi or many disciplined sahabah not do same, yet Nabi's rule stands that do not shake woman.

# Your being a Sunni does not mean you must defend Saudi king and his ruling class in their wrongdoings. Islam, and Sunnism is bigger than individual or set of individuals.

AlBaqir:

# You also, stylishly try to defend the King using "age theory and desire for sex theory". Many in no time will hide under this theory (in fact people already use it)/that " I can shake woman without having feelings for her". Can Nabi or many disciplined sahabah not do same, yet Nabi's rule stands that do not shake woman.

Age as an excuse is established, you may read the full Qaradwi's fatwa Here.
Another evidence for age, Allah (SWT) says:

"Allah is He Who created you from a state of weakness then He gave strength after weakness, then ordained weakness and hoary hair after strength; He creates what He pleases, and He is the Knowing, the Powerful". (Ar-Room: 54).

We all know that the creation from a state of weakness represents infant and childhood, while ordained weakness after strength is old age.

A quick question AlBaqir, can I shake an 80 years old great grandma who is a non-mahram?! If No, why?! What is the reason of prohibition?!

A young man who is sexually active cannot use this as an excuse, except he is impotent!

AlBaqir:

# Your being a Sunni does not mean you must defend Saudi king and his ruling class in their wrongdoings. Islam, and Sunnism is bigger than individual or set of individuals.

I have obligations to my Muslim brothers regardless of who they are, I do not shy away from speaking the truth, and I have done this on this matter and I have also provided a link on my stand.

sino:


Age as an excuse is established, you may read the full Qaradwi's fatwa Here.

# Like I told you, I am not interested in al-Qardawi. He is entitled to his opinion. Give me a single Salafi or Saudi scholar that ruled a man of 81 years old, because of his age, can shake woman. Then I can take that seriously.

Look at the exception Allah gives in this ayah for women:

"But when your children reach puberty let them (also) ask for permission as do those senior to them (in age). Thus does God make clear His signs for you for God is All-knowing, All-wise. Such women as are past childbearing age and have no hope of marriage, there is no blame on them if they put aside their (outer)garments, provided they make not a wanton display of their beauty; but it is best
for them to be modest and God is All-hearing, All-
knowing." (24:58-60)

# Quran is unique not to have mention any age bracket. Apart from the fact that we do not have any ayah that ask man to "put down their hijab" at anytime, it is a common knowledge that a very oldest Man till he dies can still marry and produce a viable sperm to fertilise woman(s).

# Here's a record:

Couple aged 103 and 91 to become world's oldest newlyweds after 27 years together

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3054302/I-didn-t-one-knee-wouldn-t-able-Couple-aged-103-91-world-s-oldest-newlyweds-27-years-together.html

# Now for the sake of generosity, lets assume Allah was also addressing man in that ayah 58-60 of sura Nur. Tell me the Saudi King has passed the age of producing children or marriage?!

# I heard of a man in my village who married his last wife at the age of 90 and the woman had two children for him before he died. If you do not believe, here's another world record:

Ramjit Raghav (born c. 1916) is an Indian former
wrestler and farmer who has been claimed by various
news media as the world's oldest father. He resided in
southern India with his wife. He claimed to have had his
first child with his wife at age 94. He fathered a second
child at age 96.

sino:


A quick question AlBaqir, can I shake an 80 years old great grandma who is a non-mahram?! If No, why?! What is the reason of prohibition?!

Asking question in this hot seat you put yourself is like trying to shift the goalpost but I will be generous.

# The question is that "old great grandma", according to the Quran, has she passed the " childbearing age or have no hope of marriage"? If she can no longer bear child and have no hope of marriage, then I can shake her.


* In the case under discussion, Angela Merkel, Trump's wife, and other women together with Saudi king, all of them are absolutely still within the age of producing children and marriage.

sino:


A young man who is sexually active cannot use this as an excuse, except he is impotent!

# Thank you for that.

I will infer you have agreed that the deposed crown prince and the newly appointed crown prince together with other Saudi royals who engaged (or engaging) in shaking hands are all committed (or committing) haram/sinful act.

sino:

I have obligations to my Muslim brothers regardless of who they are, I do not shy away from speaking the truth, and I have done this on this matter and I have also provided a link on my stand.

# Your submission is weak, very weak as I have exposed up there.

# Then, if you are not "shying away from speaking the truth", tell us they did (at least those young guys) is a sinful act.

.....

AlBaqir:


# Like I told you, I am not interested in al-Qardawi. He is entitled to his opinion. Give me a single Salafi or Saudi scholar that ruled a man of 81 years old, because of his age, can shake woman. Then I can take that seriously.

Look at the exception Allah gives in this ayah for women:

"But when your children reach puberty let them (also) ask for permission as do those senior to them (in age). Thus does God make clear His signs for you for God is All-knowing, All-wise. Such women as are past childbearing age and have no hope of marriage, there is no blame on them if they put aside their (outer)garments, provided they make not a wanton display of their beauty; but it is best
for them to be modest and God is All-hearing, All-
knowing." (24:58-60)

# Quran is unique not to have mention any age bracket. Apart from the fact that we do not have any ayah that ask man to "put down their hijab" at anytime, it is a common knowledge that a very oldest Man till he dies can still marry and produce a viable sperm to fertilise woman(s).

# Here's a record:

Couple aged 103 and 91 to become world's oldest newlyweds after 27 years together

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-3054302/I-didn-t-one-knee-wouldn-t-able-Couple-aged-103-91-world-s-oldest-newlyweds-27-years-together.html

# Now for the sake of generosity, lets assume Allah was also addressing man in that ayah 58-60 of sura Nur. Tell me the Saudi King has passed the age of producing children or marriage?!

# I heard of a man in my village who married his last wife at the age of 90 and the woman had two children for him before he died. If you do not believe, here's another world record:

Ramjit Raghav (born c. 1916) is an Indian former
wrestler and farmer who has been claimed by various
news media as the world's oldest father. He resided in
southern India with his wife. He claimed to have had his
first child with his wife at age 94. He fathered a second
child at age 96.

Firstly, Qaradwi wasn't basing his fatwa on his personal opinion, read, you no read, you just want to bash Saudis and Salafists.

You yourself just posted a 91 year old woman getting married, and you are arguing here. Don't you know that older women also have sex?! Some even tend to enjoy it more at this advance age. So what do we say about the Quranic verse?!

more evidences:

According to the Longitudinal Study of Ageing of 7,000 British subjects, more than 31 percent of British men in the 80 to 90 age bracket still masturbate and have sex. That compares to just under 60 percent of men between 70 and 80, which is still an impressive figure. British women aren’t nearly as frisky, according to the report, with only 14 percent of women between 80 and 90 and 34 percent of women between 70 and 80 regularly engaging in sex or self-gratification.

A similar study in the United States conducted several years ago by the Indiana University’s Center for Sexual Health Promotion found similar results among American seniors. While the American study divides its age group differently, the resounding result is that sex among the senior set is important, with 46 percent of men and 33 percent of women over 70 reporting that they masturbate, and 43 percent of men and 22 of women in the same age bracket saying they engage in sexual intercourse. Source

AlBaqir:

Asking question in this hot seat you put yourself is like trying to shift the goalpost but I will be generous.

# The question is that "old great grandma", according to the Quran, has she passed the " childbearing age or have no hope of marriage"? If she can no longer bear child and have no hope of marriage, then I can shake her.


* In the case under discussion, Angela Merkel, Trump's wife, and other women together with Saudi king, all of them are absolutely still within the age of producing children and marriage.

Lol, Mr. Man, you posted a 91 year old woman getting married, and some 80 years old ladies still get it on...

Now go and read and understand that prohibition of shaking hands with opposite sex is not about bearing children or getting married!

AlBaqir:

# Thank you for that.

I will infer you have agreed that the deposed crown prince and the newly appointed crown prince together with other Saudi royals who engaged (or engaging) in shaking hands are all committed (or committing) haram/sinful act.

The princes are just like any other Muslim, they can commit sins, but I cannot say with just the pictures you have presented, that they have committed a sin. For every rule there are exceptions, and sometimes one may find himself in such, and if such situations are devoid of desire and fear of fitnah, I cannot bodly say such a person has committed a sin. And isn't Allah (SWT) going to Judge us not only by our actions, but also intentions?! Do you know how Allah (SWT) is going to do that?!

AlBaqir:

# Your submission is weak, very weak as I have exposed up there.

# Then, if you are not "shying away from speaking the truth", tell us they did (at least those young guys) is a sinful act.

The truth is that shaking of non-mahram is prohibited generally, so as to block the pathways of evil and fitnah, so also is shaking of those who are permissible, but there is fear of desire and fitnah such as blood relatives. Old people are exempted especially when it is not accompanied with desire as well as children. An exception was only given by Qaradwi in such situations were there is no fear of desire or enjoyment, and being "forced" into shaking an opposite sex.

....

sino:


The truth is that shaking of non-mahram is prohibited generally, so as to block the pathways of evil and fitnah, so also is shaking of those who are permissible, but there is fear of desire and fitnah such as blood relatives. Old people are exempted especially when it is not accompanied with desire as well as children. An exception was only given by Qaradwi in such situations were there is no fear of desire or enjoyment, and being "forced" into shaking an opposite sex.

# Alhamdulillah you finally speaks the truth.

And how are monarchs generally portrayed in the Quran?:

"She said: "Verily! Kings, when they enter a town (country), they corrupt it, and make the most honourable amongst its people low. And thus they do." (27:34)

AlBaqir:


# Alhamdulillah you finally speaks the truth.

And how are monarchs generally portrayed in the Quran?:

"She said: "Verily! Kings, when they enter a town (country), they corrupt it, and make the most honourable amongst its people low. And thus they do." (27:34)

Bros, the Qur'an verse does not help your bashing the Saudi monarchy at all.

1. It is not Allah's statement but that of the Queen of Sheba. You cannot use Firaun's claim as a god to say he is a god or can you? Even when it is stated so in the Qur'an

2. The Queen of Sheba was actually responding to the Letter of Sulaiman (AS), inviting her and her people to Islam

3. Sulaiman (AS) was a King so also was his father

4. The Queen of Sheba was actually talking about conquering of lands, a take over of a land by kings which was a norm then, and mostly perpetuated by non-Muslims.

And by the way, I had been posting the truth, to the best of my ability, if you are just getting it now, all well and good.

sino:



3. Sulaiman (AS) was a King so also was his father

# That's simply the difference between a Godly appointed King and those of the likes of Saudis who established their throne on bloodshed and falsehood. At this age, I can't be telling you how Saudi established her empire.

Rilwayne001:
Saudi Arabia is the chief foreign promoter of Islamist extremism in the UK, a new report has claimed.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-40496778?ocid=socialflow_facebook&ns_mchannel=social&ns_campaign=bbcnews&ns_source=facebook

This is the most painful part of the report:
The BBC's Frank Gardner said the report's release comes at a sensitive time with Saudi Arabia, the UAE, Bahrain and
Egypt all accusing Qatar of supporting extremism - a charge the report says is hypocritical

# No doubt Qatar sponsors terrorism. Obviously, Saudi is equally if not more guilty of what she accused Qatar of. But the Saudis have played the smart card by seeking refuge in Trump's administration. Something they find difficult during Obama's.


# All eyes are on Theresa May as her intentions and moves (which they claim is for the good/profit of the UK as they continue milking the Saudis) is to cover up the detailed report which linked Saudi America to promoting extremism and terrorism worldwide.


# Donald Ibn Trump after receiving a huge "bribe" has already mellow of his initial campaign in exposing the Saudi regime with same crime.

# The UK Labour leader Jeremy Corbyns who is leading this crusade and even move for cessation of UK selling arms to the Saudis which they continue using to kill innocent lives in Yemen, might eventually be like Trump.

# Possibility of UK doing same as US is high.

Chess game they play. The UK itself reporting the news is not guilty-free. Anyone with at least 10 cent brain should see that those terrorist attacks in EUROPE and UK are planned work of the authority of those countries coupled with SaudI and Qatar.

All of them are in the cycle of this BS. If UK pushes Saudi too much, Saudi may pull the plug (oil deal) and in return it is going to be messy. So UK not need to play smart. We know the drill. So next time they report "terrorist attacks" in EUROPE or UK, please kindly excuse Islam and Islamic texts out of it. If there are people (Muslims) with extreme idelogy but no funding, wallahi, there gra gra will go no where.

Example of this was a defunct organization in US called "revolution Muslim" now reformed "islam policy". It is a group of extreme fringes but their anger and grevancies did not go beyond nyc. They had no funding from anywhere. They were only angry folks. So most terrorist attacks almost anywhere in the world are orchestrated by higher power culprits.

Empiree:
Chess game they play. The UK itself reporting the news is not guilty-free. Anyone with at least 10 cent brain should see that those terrorist attacks in EUROPE and UK are planned work of the authority of those countries coupled with SaudI and Qatar.

All of them are in the cycle of this BS. If UK pushes Saudi too much, Saudi may pull the plug (oil deal) and in return it is going to be messy. So UK not need to play smart. We know the drill. So next time they report "terrorist attacks" in EUROPE or UK, please kindly excuse Islam and Islamic texts out of it. If there are people (Muslims) with extreme idelogy but no funding, wallahi, there gra gra will go no where.

Example of this was a defunct organization in US called "revolution Muslim" now reformed "islam policy". It is a group of extreme fringes but their anger and grevancies did not go beyond nyc. They had no funding from anywhere. They were only angry folks. So most terrorist attacks almost anywhere in the world are orchestrated by higher power culprits.

# You don't get the gist Mr Empire. Left to the UK government, Saudi is absolved of all crimes so long they continue to pay their dues.

# Theresa May is in deep shi.t and continue facing firepower from Jeremy Corbyns and his Labour party. Just like Trump, one of the selling points of Jeremy is threatening to expose the Saudis on extremism and terrorism. That's the truth the Briton are yearning for since which their government continue to sweep under the carpet. This was part of strategy Trump used. And immediately he assumed office, he dumped it collecting billions of Dollars. He used one stone to kill two birds. So, I don't trust Jeremy's crusade too.

AlBaqir:



# You don't get the gist Mr Empire. Left to the UK government, Saudi is absolved of all crimes so long they continue to pay their dues.

# Theresa May is in deep shi.t and continue facing firepower from Jeremy Corbyns and his Labour party. Just like Trump, one of the selling points of Jeremy is threatening to expose the Saudis on extremism and terrorism. That's the truth the Briton are yearning for since which their government continue to sweep under the carpet. This was part of strategy Trump used. And immediately he assumed office, he dumped it collecting billions of Dollars. He used one stone to kill two birds. So, I don't trust Jeremy's crusade too.

My points still on point with @underlined. Why sweeping nonsense under the carpet if they themselves have no dirty secrets that could backfire if they dont cover the dirts?

Empiree:
My points still on point with @underlined. Why sweeping nonsense under the carpet if they themselves have no dirty secrets that could backfire if they dont cover the dirts?

# Its all about petrodollar my brother. However I am surprised its BBC news . This clown of a media house have written several articles and so called expert opinions together with Poll, absolving the Saudis.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=twX80pjLi58&feature=push-u&attr_tag=quXFn7CVkdCXzy2J-6

Empiree:
^^

I disagree with you vex. I dont think you understood his post. I am surprised u said kneeling and bowing is something you do everyday. I hope you read from lexiconkabir and co. They said it is shirk to do so. Thats the argument albaqir brought up. Be open minded for a second. Although i dont think you ever posted anything with regard to this before but here you are.

I am sure abdelkabir aka lexicon would disgree with you.

Anyways, what albaqir is saying is that anti-kneeling and bowing folks used saudi scholars to prove their points. Anytime we showed them evidence saudi people do the same, they said nothing. They only criticize non-saudis who kneel or bow. They give excuses for saudis.

Attachment is Albaqir's not me. I am only helping get it across

So if the prince was in a video drinking it disproves what? That drinking is not a sin or acceptable? Did it ever occur to you that the Prince could have simply knelt down out of his self serving interest?

This is a family he has labeled unIslamic yet would be quick to use their actions as basis for proving his case. Please we should use a more sensible approach to refuting points using well structured methodology rather than self serving argument that can be waved with hand.

Empiree:
^^^^

Ameena

Thanks.

Newnas, abdelkabir, demmzy15, vedexcool and co are blind followers. I have read their anti-sayd Qutb's pro terrorism stance several times. I just had to keep mute. It was quiet understood why Qutb''s views was sometimes extreme.

These people did not question how Qutb was brutally treated by the Egyptian govt and how he was tortured in prison. Yet are so much concerned about how ill treatment in Tayyimiya(ra) got from authority in his time. If this is what you called "salafiya", you have serious problems. I believe the "Quranist", usermane wrote negatively on Qutb too but he was fair enough by mentioning his ill treatment

As usual you blind defender of a murderer dictator misrepresents my position and use labels that accurately protrays your habit of thinking largely clouded by conspiracy theories blind following. ... care to show where I labeled Qutb being pro terrorism?

vedaxcool:

So if the prince was in a video drinking it disproves what? That drinking is not a sin or acceptable? Did it ever occur to you that the Prince could have simply knelt down out of his self serving interest?

This is a family he has labeled unIslamic yet would be quick to use their actions as basis for proving his case. Please we should use a more sensible approach to refuting points using well structured methodology rather than self serving argument that can be waved with hand.

Spotted and confirmed

Fadhilat Sheikh Mustapha Zhuglul Sanusi He once delivered outstanding lecture on Israeli-Palestinian conflicts

Prez is confused. Prolly at stage 1 Alzheimer

He is under Saudi pressure


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O2CMNpsTirk#t=186.481

Janaza

...
.

Does Mr. trump STILL HOLDS THIS VIEW OF HIS?


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Hymc9rfH09Q&feature=push-u&attr_tag=qx0Qp2xkoyBpvqfp-6

Is this [url=https://mbasic.facebook.com/video_redirect/?src=https%3A%2F%2Fz-p3-video-lax3-1.xx.fbcdn.net%2Fv%2Ft42.1790-2%2F19809741_325509121210809_6875145182262591488_n.mp4%3Fefg%3DeyJybHIiOjUzMSwicmxhIjo1MTIsInZlbmNvZGVfdGFnIjoic3ZlX3NkIn0%253D%26_nc_eui2%3Dv1%253AAeGdZN2efZSzwnWTTwKEMZ655DAMpDqYP92ByQeBtlLJnIX1umzDgANPWjPoUF0QhieTPl1NUNZTbbgeSeAz4N56lBtQSTKs5ea0dCAWb7qMdCtaDTEz14BJbFtsUyC7tK0%26oh%3D1d4a49cb47528d1992712ceaa41ab8c6%26oe%3D5960CDF2&source=misc&id=1470679622971412&refid=52&__tn__=F] This one [/url] salaah?

Billions of $$$ in damages. I feel sorry for the state