Welcome, Guest: Register On Nairaland / LOGIN! / Trending / Recent / NewStats: 3,199,078 members, 7,970,303 topics. Date: Wednesday, 09 October 2024 at 06:33 AM |
Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Health / FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. (18664 Views)
NMA To End Strike Soon! / Ebola: Nigeria Reaches Out To U.S. For Experimental Drug; NMA Sets Up Committee / FG Begs To NMA To Suspend Strike (2) (3) (4)
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (Reply) (Go Down)
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by einsteino(m): 3:44am On Jul 12, 2014 |
prettyprettywow: I wasn't referring to nurses as the defenders. I quite agree that some courses have more prospect than others. Does the offshore engr tell you that they are naturally the leader of the team?, that you are a support staff in the oil industry? that he owns the rig? or that you are less of an engr because he earns more? Your mentality is different from the average drs mentality. You are talking from the piont of view as an engr which is different from what is happening in the health sector. so would you seriously liken the healthsector with an aircraft or the judiciary? I agree that doctors could be such a proud fool, inshort my aunt who was a nurse once came back home vexed that a young resident doctor insulted her. at the time she was due to retire in a year's time, imagine that. well it was easy dealing with the manner-less resident cos her daughter was a consultant doctor in the same hospital...lol well to answer the bolded, i think i finally understand where the problem lies. it appears you guys are not thought the organogram of your industry in school. you know the first time my friend who was a student of architecture told me they are our team leaders in building projects, i was like wtf! how can that be? architecture was a branch of civil engr, we even are taught architectural design... blah blah. then finally in one of our courses we were thought the organogram of our industry, down to our history and found out why it had to be so. now if am in an offshore facility, am nothing more than a service engr, someone who builds and maintains whatever the pet engrs and d rest needs. i cant lead their team but i am part of that team, although i would be allowed to head my dept, inshort a pet engr cant head my dept.. although u never would find him looking down on me, i dunno y sha.. engrs always seem to bond very well, u will hardly find an engr fighting over who is more important. as a matter of fact most of my friends who are mech engrs, pose as civil engrs and i even happily help em when they consult me(osho free consultation in most cases o! just d same way they gave me free soakis in sch..lol). maybe cos in engr teamwork is so stressed upon, cos failure to work as a team could result in loss of billions (u know people care more about money than human lives..lol) Now if i happen to be in an oil servicing firm, he would have to succumb to me. it is more or less, this is my field so its best for the team if i lead cos am d most knowledgeable here, then when am in urs its best i listen to u . the problem with the health care is that other professions like nurses dont seem to have their own field where they lead, it appears u always have to say yes to the doctor. Actually it isn't supposed to be a problem cos the nightingale nurses started out with the sole purpose of assisting the doctors. funny enuf they bonded so well that doctors ended up marrying their nurses. I recommend a salary review for JOHESU but it is critical that doctors keep running hospitals. this issue of a fresh resident doc earning more than a nurse with msc and 20yrs experience is crazy. 2 Likes |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by prettyprettywow: 3:55am On Jul 12, 2014 |
what is your position on directorship in the hospital? Is that also part of the organogram? what i was taught about organogram in school is that the patient is at the center and surrounded by healthcare professionals. I think only the medical students were taught the organogram, hence the fight. @ the bolded: what do you mean by nurses don't have their own field? what happened to the healthcare field? Nightengale worked with the doctors and not for them. If nursing doesn't have its own field like you said, i wonder why it is regarded as a unique profession, it would have been under the medical profession. The problem with the nursing profession was the greater number of women in it at the time women were not taken seriously, when they were seen and not heard and are considered to be under a man. But this is 21st century where women have been liberated, study their 24 commandments in depth. what of pharmacy, medlab, physiotherapy, radiography, don't they have their own field? or is everybody working at the doctor's field? @ the seconded bolded, if it is the right of the doctors to run hospitals in UK, US, Canada, Australia, and there healthcare is very effective, then let it be so in Nigeria. But if not,......I still wonder how the health indices of the giant of Africa is rated 187th out of 190 nations under the natural leadership of Drs einsteino: |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by prettyprettywow: 3:57am On Jul 12, 2014 |
hospital organogram
|
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by stopdat: 4:24am On Jul 12, 2014 |
ideycraze:U no dey craze at all 3 Likes |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by einsteino(m): 4:24am On Jul 12, 2014 |
prettyprettywow: @ the first bolded: It is the same O'level requirement for all health workers.5 credits in...physics, chemistry, biology, maths and English. It doesn't matter if you had parallel A's or C's. And again, medicine is not 6 credits at one sitting but 5credits. get your facts right. You claim you are not in medical field, yet you claim to know more than those in the field. Pick a JAMB Brochure and check the O'level requirements. oh yes am not a doctor and u can go through my posts here on nl, should incase u have any doubt.you would see where i have offered information on the best kind of foundations for buildings. now i want to believe you have held a jamb brochure before. if you have, then you must have noticed every school has the power to dictate its minimum requirements for a course. in mine, medicine was 6credits.. inshort not only medicine, some other courses were too. like i said, i attended a uni, i made friends across all works of lives, i am the kind of person who is not confined to a particular area. you may be surprised that am a civil engineer, yet my signature reads i fix hardbricked phones, thats a proof that my hobby is clearly different from my career. also my very close aunt whom i lived with at a time was a nurse, i have cousins who are too(inshort i teased them when i saw JOHESU's demands..pardon me but some showed nuffin more but hatred for docs lol). i also have cousins who are doctors and in my family, we aint the kind that discuss people, so we are oftenly left with no choice other than to discuss different sectors of life. thats how i managed to know the little i do, i can understand if it seems alot to you... the same way my knowledge of computers and electronics seems alot to those who actually did study those courses.lol. however i would never drag your field with you, all i ask is do not be biased when you argue. you all are important, you do not need to downplay anybody for you to appear more significant. i was shocked when a doctor here was proud to say that when nurses striked, they organised people to do their jobs(trying to show that they are not important). if an airforce man gets killed by touts, am sure any army man around would join hands to see they fish the touts out. i am done with this thread. |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by prettyprettywow: 4:45am On Jul 12, 2014 |
if medicine is 6credits, what is the other course aside the 5core science courses? CRK? Agric? Govt? yoruba? My dear, no need of giving me your life history. II am not arguing that with you. I only said that because you are acting like you know more than those in the field. Unless your school is different from other schools in Naija, the standard requirement is 5credits. let the Drs prove me wrong on this and not you. But, do you deliberately evade my questions? I asked you about your position on the directorship, and you once again evaded the question. I want to hear the opinion of someone who is not in the medical field regarding the issue. Did you also see the hospital organogram that I shared? I was taught the organogram of my profession, and the one I shared einsteino: |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by einsteino(m): 4:54am On Jul 12, 2014 |
prettyprettywow: what is your position on directorship in the hospital? Is that also part of the organogram? what i was taught about organogram in school is that the patient is at the center and surrounded by healthcare professionals. I think only the medical students were taught the organogram, hence the fight. @ the bolded: what do you mean by nurses don't have their own field? what happened to the healthcare field? Nightengale worked with the doctors and not for them. If nursing doesn't have its own field like you said, i wonder why it is regarded as a unique profession, it would have been under the medical profession. The problem with the nursing profession was the greater number of women in it at the time women were not taken seriously, when they were seen and not heard and are considered to be under a man. But this is 21st century where women have been liberated, study their 24 commandments in depth. honestly i have been up all night and sleep don dey catch me. so forgive me if i no answer all your questions. the way i see it, y'all are like a lady raised by a feminist. everything you would be taught is anti-male. forgive me, am not a chauvinist sha when a patient comes to the hospital, he comes to see a doctor(if the doctor is not there, he would go home ). the doctor diagnoses what's wrong with the aid of test results and his medical knowledge, then prescribes what the pharmacist would give him. it is the needs of the doctor that brings everyone else in. it is more a less like a singer and fan rship, fans are all over singers forgetting it takes a producer, mixer and a whole lot of other people to get those great songs. now the producers cant ask to be shown in every music video so they would be noticed, rather what is needed is for the singers to always acknowledge, pay and respect them. even in civil engr, the needs of the engr brings a whole lot of professionals like quantity surveyors, they have to work with us cos our jobs brings them jobs. but unfortunately they cant head the team, but they are well paid and respected by us. just the same way i make friends with architects cos once they get a big job, it means i too have a job ... if dem like make dem form boss, as long as dem gree pay wetin i charge and dem no dare insult me. Pharmacy is such a gold mine, in most countries they are by far richer than docs. but not when all they do is dispense drugs, the biggest field in pharmacy is producing drugs. unfortunately in Nigeria, that sector hasn't been tapped. just the same way some civil engrs are now relegating themselves to acts like competing with architects in drawing building plans simply cos they can't get their hands on pure civil engr jobs. one funny thing about the truth is that it doesnt give an F abt our opinions, no matter what we say here today.. the truth would be the truth. i need to sleep, so i dont fall sick and get admitted in a hospital where doctors and nurses are fighting over who is boss. 4 Likes |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by Nobody: 4:57am On Jul 12, 2014 |
sonofaGod: FOOLS,keep dispaying arrogance and animosity towards doctors till u will require doctors services to save your lives or that of your loved ones one day.that's when u will recognise their importance in society.there is a good reason y doctors are leaving this countries in droves more than benin gals are going to italy because society has failed to give them their dues even though d same society expects so much from themso we should turn to their slaves because they are doctor abi,what about teachers ,don't they deserve more than what they get |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by Wahala90: 4:58am On Jul 12, 2014 |
Claim: In Nigeria, doctors save lives. Fact: In Nigeria, doctors' carelessness and incompetence have killed patients more than any other country in the world. |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by prettyprettywow: 5:01am On Jul 12, 2014 |
Anyway, i am done responding to you. you keep going round and round. what if a patient comes to see the doctor and the lab guy is not around? won't the patient go home and come back another day? what if a patient needs admission and the nurse is not around? will he still be admitted?. No need of arguing with you cos you no get flows. I actually thought you had something to offer. It's a shameYou keep avoiding the main issues. bye bye einsteino: 2 Likes |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by drcakes: 5:50am On Jul 12, 2014 |
The nurses oath 1 Like
|
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by Opiosko: 5:58am On Jul 12, 2014 |
annoymous: lmaoIf something is wrong somewhere, don't u think a public debate about it will open up the issue? If the Docs are sure of their case they should accept d fair challenge. |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by Ashuale(m): 6:03am On Jul 12, 2014 |
When has public debate become solution to strike?.FG shying away from responsibilties.and some people are craving for a debate. After the debate and lets assume FG wins,what happens?.you forget that winning debates is by eloquence, good oratory and excellent lying. Lives are going.only nigeria will this happen. Doctors are not stupid.FG and johesu should stop misinforming the public.they see the systemic failure in nigeria and they take it to their advantage. |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by sonofaGod: 6:03am On Jul 12, 2014 |
adeoladrg:but am I d reason u were withdrawn from medical schOol? |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by Opiosko: 6:10am On Jul 12, 2014 |
youngdoctor:I don't want to be rude but i think u ar ignorant. Do u honestly think it's only Docs that gives health care? I'm in my mid 20s nd have never in my life been given a treatment by a Doc. Learn how not to respond emotionally to issues. |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by drcakes: 6:20am On Jul 12, 2014 |
Let them be scheduling debates. By the time it is fixed maybe we won't have patients anymore. Got this from a friend's wall. Nurses at work Naija Nurses Forum Igbojionu Ijeoma Joy > Pls what is d best treatment to a 14wks primip who complains of having lower uterine contraction Edafeadhe Onome: Now that the doctors are on strike what will you do? Are you going to their houses and call them that a patient is having pre-term contractions. Say something reasonable. This is the opportunity Nurses have to prove their worth in the hospital. Thanks for all your contributions. What of Ergometrin or dexamethasone. These drugs helps to reduce spasms. |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by ceaser: 6:32am On Jul 12, 2014 |
nationwide24: I think this strike is an opportunity for JOHESU to really take over hospital management as doctors are empty vessels. No need for this debate. https://m.facebook.com/story.php?story_fbid=619821268125504&id=100002929091290&refid=52&__tn__=C
|
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by eunisam: 6:43am On Jul 12, 2014 |
youngdoctor: As a doctor..i can tel yu ds FG is schizophrenic...we ve made a mistake electing ds bastards.as learned as u are,must you use insultive words to air your opinion? I guess even if you are selected as one of the debating candidates,you are going to speak provocatively instead of deplomaticly.or have u been infected with naiiraland virus? |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by eejo(m): 6:43am On Jul 12, 2014 |
einsteino:my comparism is right each member must work together for patient recovery and they are all university graduate so that means a doctor is more important than you because he spend six years and you spend five in the university that is why china boys ' had taken your jobs in nigeria |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by DebateNigeria: 7:08am On Jul 12, 2014 |
ziga:Sure |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by Emulti(m): 7:08am On Jul 12, 2014 |
ideycraze: A public debate would not in any way solve the problem. The Minister, NMA and possibly JOHESU should sit down and rub minds together to proffer solution to the problem at hand.. d 'gods'(doctors) don't want negotiation. dey want their request or nothing. |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by Solozzo(m): 7:12am On Jul 12, 2014 |
The fact is that the job of the CEOs of these hospitals is 95% admin. So whowever heads this post must show evidence of capacity to lead, administer health facility, manage human, financial and material resources. Doctors core training is managing of patients. To be CEOs they should undergo training and experience in health service, public admin and leadership trainning. Every member of the health team who has the qualifications, experience in hospital can become a CEO. This model works well in Australia. The depts can be headed by their professional members. Docs feel threatened for no reason. Experience is that in Nigeria most doc CEOs have only clinical qualification and so learn on the job from the DA. Docs should learn to use the team model in pt care : show respect equally to other professionals in health service, and realize that their contribution to pt care is only part of the whole care of the patient. If no drugs from pharmacists, no nurses to give the meds, nurse patients, no records , no lab, doctors work is useless in public hospitals. Docs who relate well with team spirit and equally respect other staff are more respected, work less and happier in the profession In summary in my view any qualified health professional can be CEO of public hospitals 2 Likes |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by otokx(m): 7:32am On Jul 12, 2014 |
The minister must be high on something. |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by ceaser: 7:33am On Jul 12, 2014 |
eejo: health care is like the armed forces the army, navy, airforce must work together to win a war nobody is more important than the other since 1960 doctors with no administrative knowlege had been heading still WHO rank nigeria health care 191 out of 197 despite huge fund been spent time for a change nigerians needs a fine health care system so that we can ranked among the top 20 in the world How much money has been spent in the power sector since independence? But today you generate less than 3,500MW. How much has been sunk into resuscitating Ajaokuta steel company but it's currently moribound? Fact is, it all boils down to your government commitment and their insincerity caused the strike in the first place. It's the same corrupt tendency and insensitivity that made the Super eagles strike in Brazil. It's still the same reason some officers recently went on mutiny in Northern Nigeria. But instead of directing your grievances towards those politicians who earn so much for doing nothing, you praise them and spare them your wrath. So what are you on about? |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by shegsrules(m): 7:37am On Jul 12, 2014 |
Doctors are not only the medical practitioners so why try to make it be like u people are d boss, after all some countries pay nurses far better. |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by DeoGratias1(m): 7:47am On Jul 12, 2014 |
This is becoming more interesting |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by Dnaz(m): 8:00am On Jul 12, 2014 |
POLITICAL PROFESSIONALISM; A MISPLACEMENT OF PASSION AND ABUSE OF PRECEDENCE I remember in 2005 when I applied for an admission to study Medicine and was offered Biochemistry. I rejected it and applied again, this time I was given Chemistry, the “Bio” was removed, lolz. I was again offered Physiology/ Pharmacology in almighty Unijos (great is the name), I reluctantly accepted it this time but told myself I’ll go back for medicine after graduation. Two years into this five years course, I fell in love with it. The difference is not much as it is a combination of medicine and pharmacy. The same lecturers for medical and pharmaceutical students gave me lectures, including practical. After graduation we were inducted (oat taking), sent on internship – just like medical doctors. Note: we used same lecturers, lecture halls, same textbooks (Gython and Hall, Tripati, Ganon, Rang and Dale etc.), same laboratories etc. with medical students because we were doing almost same course. The fact is that we are health practitioners; the truth is that we are NOT medical doctors as there is nothing like “almost a medical doctor” you are either a medical doctor or u are not! After graduation, some of my class mates who suffered the same fate as me went back for medicine but I didn’t see any reason anymore to do so. They went back because they knew they are not medical doctors despite……. I did a double honor course n I am happy today that even if I’m offered an admission with a salary to go and study medicine today, I will not go. It’s only “no do wells” that envy other people's profession. I also remember few years ago when there was this “madness” for everyone to study nursing. Men and women went into the nursing profession because there was a high demand and pay for them in the U.S, Australia, and U.K etc. nobody talked about the doctors cos nurses were “popular demand”. My question is, can any JOHESU show me any of these nurses over there that is or was made CMD? There will always be an order of precedence. This is arrant nonsense, madness! No matter how a recruit thinks he knows how to write statement or handle cases more than a DPO, he can never head a division. JOHESU should stop this fight of jealousy, envy and professional encroachment! It doesn’t make sense to me or to any reasonable and just person. What i see in the health profession now is what I call; Political Professionalism; office encroachment; Misplacement of Passion and Abuse of Precedence. People should learn to tell each other the truth. JOHESU needs to be told the truth. The leaderships are using your finances to better their lives and tell you they are fighting your course, which course? License you as doctors? That’s only when you can head a hospital. That’s just a misleading fact, the truth is that it’s not late for you to go back to school and become a doctor. How on earth do people think, with their anus? How can a certified medical doctor take directives/instructions from a nurse, pharmacist, herbalist, mechanic, etc. all in the name of JOHESU? What would you do in that post? This is simply envy and jealousy but out of place cos I remember, in my 200level we were almost 90 in number but in 300level we were a little more than 70. In graduation, less than 50 made it. Many voluntarily withdrew cos to them the work load was too much for just one certificate, others were asked to withdraw cos they seem not to belong there with what they were putting in. By tomorrow, even babalawos and witch doctor, people u studied physical n health in education will want head hospitals; after all they’re even doctors by profession, lolz. The gap is so much that doctors can do without JOHESU but I bet you, you can’t do medicals without doctors, let’s be frank. Isn’t it obvious that while doctors are on strike people lament and beg doctors to come back, are you not there JOHESU? I think that tells you where you belong. If JOHESU is as good as NMA why will patients cry the absence of doctors from hospitals? Today people are dying in the hospitals just because one man has refused to stay in his place. I know JOHESU thinks they “know the job better than doctors” that’s a fact. The truth is, no matter how big a butterfly grows, it can never be a bird “let every man stay in the profession wherein he is called and be the best there, to avoid noise making” why won’t nurses make auxiliary or nurses from nursing schools Chief Matrons? After all they are more practical than the B.Sc nurses! Let’s respect each other’s office. We need each other but the order of precedence must be observed and respected. If u still think what a doctor can do, JOHESU can do better, I tell you, you are only being sentimental not rational. And if you still want to head a hospital, that won’t be a problem but pls, go back to school. But if you think that’s too much at this stage, pls go and hug a transformer. # sosayslolo 3 Likes |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by eightsin(m): 8:02am On Jul 12, 2014 |
It all boils down to a struggle for power and superiority...it is a shame our people die for such. Imagine,doctors discharged patients without full treatment in my hospital! |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by rolex29: 8:10am On Jul 12, 2014 |
prettyprettywow: what is your position on directorship in the hospital? Is that also part of the organogram? what i was taught about organogram in school is that the patient is at the center and surrounded by healthcare professionals. I think only the medical students were taught the organogram, hence the fight. @ the bolded: what do you mean by nurses don't have their own field? what happened to the healthcare field? Nightengale worked with the doctors and not for them. If nursing doesn't have its own field like you said, i wonder why it is regarded as a unique profession, it would have been under the medical profession. The problem with the nursing profession was the greater number of women in it at the time women were not taken seriously, when they were seen and not heard and are considered to be under a man. But this is 21st century where women have been liberated, study their 24 commandments in depth.I m feelin u and i think u re well informed on these issues nobody want to answer your question on why other health professionals should not attain the level of directorship which is the zenith of their profession from the civil service point of view |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by Nobody: 8:18am On Jul 12, 2014 |
youngdoctor: .Do you no the meaning of "alas" I doubt it |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by dumodust(m): 8:24am On Jul 12, 2014 |
prettyprettywow: I attended the same university with medical students. We studied together. We all know whats up among ourselves. Stop deceiving yourself and the public. We know what happens after their MBBS exams, and how most cross over. Don.t forget that I had them as friends in school.We still have people in studying physics, aeronautic engineering, mechanical engineering and they have not committed suicide. You can tell this cock and bull story to the market women. This is how we used to hear about how hard anatomy is before we entered school. No be the same anatomy I do with the medical students in the same class and same exam? mtcheeeeeewww. Days are long gone when we hear this kind of gist. Commit suicide indeed. suicide is a psychiatric problem let me tell you. And people have been committing suicide without going to medical schools.I just checked, all your topics since u registered are about doctors, your wailing and beef knows no bounds and you'll do anything to justify why u failed out and couldnt make the cut. Suddenly u are wiser than all the people flocking to read medicine after you failed. if readers on this site doubt me, you can check her topic and posts on this site and see how her fixation on docs bothers on being psychotic... you need help and please, if u never really experienced an mbbs exam, dont talk about what u dont know... o I forgot, u probably failed out Please, tell people what you finally read, speak about your course and yourself for once proudly so that people are inspired to join you and make sure none of your kids reads medicine in the end like uou all push them to.. |
Re: FG Challenges NMA To Public Debate. by Nobody: 8:24am On Jul 12, 2014 |
Opiosko: If something is wrong somewhere, don't u think a public debate about it will open up the issue? If the Docs are sure of their case they should accept d fair challenge.A public debate won't solve anything. One group will make accusations and the other will make counter accusations but you can't prove anything - it eventually boils down to who can speak more eloquently and the lives of Nigerians shouldn't be that cheap. Secondly, the fact that the FG is challenging them to a debate shows that they don't have a grasp of the situation and the already tense atmosphere will be worsened after the debate. I don't have a problem with the debate in and of itself, I just feel it will eventually do more harm than good |
(1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (Reply)
Cancer Now Curable, Late Presentation Cause Of Deaths, Say Oncologists / A Woman With Rare Condition Sees Upside Down / Monkeypox: Can It Be Treated And How Worried Should You Be?
Viewing this topic: 1 guest(s)
(Go Up)
Sections: politics (1) business autos (1) jobs (1) career education (1) romance computers phones travel sports fashion health religion celebs tv-movies music-radio literature webmasters programming techmarket Links: (1) (2) (3) (4) (5) (6) (7) (8) (9) (10) Nairaland - Copyright © 2005 - 2024 Oluwaseun Osewa. All rights reserved. See How To Advertise. 135 |