FOLYKAZE:

I speak of what I know. Abi you go teach mne your own language?


"we are all Aborisha (worshippers of Gods)", what is your take on this?

Worshippers of our consciousness?
I don't agree with the term "worship"

Apatheist:
Worshippers of our consciousness?
I don't agree with the term "worship"

The mistake we always fall for. We rather choose to take sides on words which is mere label.


Are you worshipping heroes, parents and country? That is if you try to view worship beyond bowing down.


Maybe you will try to read, http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Panpsychism .

This is a quote from the link I provided above:

The basic idea of panpsychism is analogous to pantheism, just replace "god" with "consciousness," so all matter, and by extension, the universe, is conscious.

You have tried to see through the word 'Gods' in my question and sees it as 'consciousness, why cant you see through 'worship' too?

And yes, my question go again, 'we are worshipper of Gods (Aborisha), pls tell us why you disagree on the term 'worship'

FOLYKAZE:

I speak of what I know. Abi you go teach mne your own language?


"we are all Aborisha (worshippers of Gods)", what is your take on this?

It's a brilliant quote. Since I am a bit familiar with Ifa worship (the Edos copied it from the Yorubas) I can faintly recall the Orishas. I believe I have said my favorite one is Orunmila. If I were to be an \Ifa worshipper that would be my pick as my Dad before me.

FOLYKAZE:

Have you read Astrology in the Bible? I think from the subject, Jesus of astrology and msytism fit into quantum theory of God. But I can say the historical Jesus is no where to be found

Did you truly say that @ bolded?

Have you heard/ read of Flavius Josephus and his Antiquities as a history of the Jews Josephus was a jew you know? Ok, let me show you an part of what this respectable historian accross the globe wrote-
At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good, and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them after his crucifixion and that he was alive; accordingly, he was perhaps the Messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders.

FOLYKAZE: There is no reason draggling forms of spirituality or religion a person or group of people choose to embrace, all boils down to Orisha-bibo. We are all; firstly Aborisha, and secondly what we choose to believe or disbelieve.


The above statement came from a local priest who has been my spiritual tutor. He made the statement in an attempt to calm me down from bashing an evangelist who came to us preaching some months ago. From then till now, I frequently recite a short part of the quote, 'we are all firstly Aborisha', trying to find meaning to this very expression and asking questions on how geniune the expression is. Could it be a wishful thinking or basic fact? What/who is an Orisha? who is an Aborisha? And how can the thousands of religion and spirituality round up to Orisha-bibo. Can there be justification to the statement that every thing/person that exist are Aborisha? Can the atheists also be regarded as Aborisha?


Aborisha is defined as the person that worship an Orisha or simply the person that is engage in Orisha practise. Well actually, aborisha which is a Yoruba word when splitted would give us A (being) + bo (nourish) + Orisha (Deity) meaning an act of being nourishing deity or gods.

So much we know, Christians and Muslims would disregard any point that explain they worship, serve, venerate, exalt, honor or tie to orisha practise. There is no doubt their holy books and doctrines are against engagement with other gods or deities as an adherent of those religion except to Jehovah/Jesus or Allah/mohammad. So also the atheists who proclaim disbelieve in the existence of God, deities or supernatural beings; they will disregard being an Aborisha too. And here the problem arises. How can we align the claim 'we are all Aborisha' when other religion, disblief system oppose it when metered with their stands and convictions?

Translation of Yoruba words to English contain lot of difficulties. This also brought distortion, errors and misconceptions. Orisha can best be translated to God (god) but 'God' as a word does not describe to the best what Orisha is.

The term Orisha can be broken up into two parts; Ori, which means "head" or "consciousness," and sha, which means "selected." Therefore, an Orisha is a selected consciousness within the great consciousness which makes infinite possibilities known as ELEDUMARE. In Yoruba spirituality, everything in the universe is alive and conscious. This means there are many ORI including that of ours and much recognition is given to some SHA (selected ones), therefore engagement with Orisha practise can stand. As it is known, the ancient tends to view natural forces, elements and the consciousness as a person or Gods which give rises to Personification of water, human, trees, and every other entities around us as God or person.

How then can an atheist claim he disbelieve in the existence of God (Orisha which is consciousness view as God)? Can the theist conclude they do not recognise some consciousness?

We humans have Ori which can be venerated while it is been recognised by self (egoism) or others (as ancestors or mentors) therefore we are Orisha or Gods. Are we not worshipping, venerating, giving praises, or serving our parents, heroes, self, leaders, mentors and role-players?

Money (Idol) represent wealth (Orisha). The bible confirmed people worship it. It is the God of ages, we recognise it through our work, strive and will of expansing it. It is sacred cuz many had and can kill for it so we preserve it as holy idol. Are we not venerating money?

Nationalism, they said is Idolatory. The earth has it Ori and we serve our territory, town and country which are being recognised as a special/sacred entity. Need I stress on Flags and coat of arms we honour, the anthems we sing raining praises or the pledges to serve and loyal to?

As there are infinite ORI, we SHA many either been aware or not which bring us into Orisha system. Getting involve in it is Orisha practice. So we can say, christians, muslims and whichever religion we belong, we worship Orisha and engage in Orisha practice.

Of what relevance is 'bo', 'nourish' in Orisha system? What is nourishment? Can we even nourish non-living entity? Here I will employ a link to an article that explain more on what nourishment is, application of the word and different levels things can be nourished.

Nourishment (bo) is defined as act of giving and receiving (there are other applications included too) which I will take as INTERACTION WITH SELECTED (SHA) CONSCIOUSNESS (ORI).

Thus, we are all aborisha would mean we are all interacting with some selected consciousness aroung us. Been aware of this engagement in Orisha practise or involvement in worship of Orisha or not aware is not issue, what matters is we (a) nourish (bo) selected consciousness (orisha).

YOU ACTUALLY LOST YOU ARGUMENT WHEN YOU USED THE BIBLE AS A REFERENCE(backup) SO AS TO CONVINCE PEOPLE OF YOUR BELIEF.

UyiIredia: It's a brilliant quote. Since I am a bit familiar with Ifa worship (the Edos copied it from the Yorubas) I can faintly recall the Orishas. I believe I have said my favorite one is Orunmila. If I were to be an \Ifa worshipper that would be my pick as my Dad before me.

Hey uyi, quite a time, well last i checked you were an athiest. Waddayyah bro

mcfynest:


YOU ACTUALLY LOST YOU ARGUMENT WHEN YOU USED THE BIBLE AS A REFERENCE(backup) SO AS TO CONVINCE PEOPLE OF YOUR BELIEF.

So the bible have to tell me Money is Orisha Aje Shaluga?

mcfynest:


Did you truly say that @ bolded?

Have you heard/ read of Flavius Josephus and his Antiquities as a history of the Jews Josephus was a jew you know? Ok, let me show you an part of what this respectable historian accross the globe wrote-
At this time there was a wise man who was called Jesus. And his conduct was good, and he was known to be virtuous. And many people from among the Jews and the other nations became his disciples. Pilate condemned him to be crucified and to die. And those who had become his disciples did not abandon his discipleship. They reported that he had appeared to them after his crucifixion and that he was alive; accordingly, he was perhaps the Messiah concerning whom the prophets have recounted wonders.

This does not explain how Historical Jesus fit into quantum theory of God

FOLYKAZE:

So the bible have to tell me Money is Orisha Aje Shaluga?

Leviticus 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.


This statement says it all.

FOLYKAZE:

This does not explain how Historical Jesus fit into quantum theory of God

This is no gaddem astrology, this is faith, Jesus is the son of God, He was born,died n ressurrected after 3 days, he is the Image of the supreme God. No complex theory, very simple and direct!

mcfynest:


This is no gaddem astrology, this is faith, Jesus is the son of God, He was born,died n ressurrected after 3 days, he is the Image of the supreme God. No complex theory, very simple and direct!

You are just bitter. When did astrology becomes quantum theory of God? You are just confused as usual

mcfynest:


Leviticus 19:31 Regard not them that have familiar spirits, neither seek after wizards, to be defiled by them: I am the LORD your God.


This statement says it all.

I cant find Orisha Aje which Jesus claimed people of his days are worshipping here.

Neither you cant deny you worship Orisha Aje. . .

Continue this your confusion

FOLYKAZE:

Ina Gejia (sorry I dont know if the spelling is correct o).

Good and thanks for your contribution.

Would like to see views of other like italo, BabaGnoni, mcfynest, Ubenedictus, Weah96, PAGAN9JA, macof, Ghostofsparta, TheBigUrban2, Apatheist, Kay17, Reyginus, rationalmind, mazaje, plaetton, qstar and PASTORAIO.

you called me,

give me some time to read the original post.

FOLYKAZE:

I cant find Orisha Aje which Jesus claimed people of his days are worshipping here.

Neither you cant deny you worship Orisha Aje. . .

Continue this your confusion

Now i get you..... You do not know what the meaning of worship is

mcfynest:


Now i get you..... You do not know what the meaning of worship is

Eduate me pls

Hmmmm....I once told my mum that I'm my own Orisha.. The woman shout.. "GOD FORBID. " so I rephrased my statement. That my "Ori" is superior to any deity. Without my Ori there is no consciousness of being spiritual/physical. Therefore, being an "Aborisha" in the physical sum of things is looking for trouble.

I say this with the verse understanding that Ogun, Sango, Olukun are regarded as Orishas. To then call myself an Aborisha is setting myself up for unwarranted spiritual testing in the fourth realm... because the Gods could care less, but man will always want proof and set forth his inquisitive ways that might lead to bad bad bad things.. You get me..

With my Ori I exist, with my Ori I connect with my spirit/mind/soul. With my Ori I connect with my body/physical self. I nourish myself with my ability to understand my reality, needs and self preservation.

Therefore, my Ori tells me to leave "Abo" and "Sha" to the Gods... in pronunciation. But in practice I have no choice..

plaetton:
Yes, in astrology, Jesus represents the sun, the sun of God and the light of the world that dies and resurrects every day to give us life and save us from the cold darkness.
Therefore, the bible is the Helios Biblica, the book of the Sun.

this is interesting

I just hate God

FOLYKAZE:

The mistake we always fall for. We rather choose to take sides on words which is mere label.


Are you worshipping heroes, parents and country? That is if you try to view worship beyond bowing down.

Not worship per se, unless respect and honor is what you mean by worship?

Maybe you will try to read, http://rationalwiki.org/wiki/Panpsychism .

This is a quote from the link I provided above:

I have read the article. It seems Panpsychim is anthropomorphism applied to everything. I still maintain it has roots in solipsism.

You have tried to see through the word 'Gods' in my question and sees it as 'consciousness, why cant you see through 'worship' too?

You used "Gods" to represent consciousness; you explained it with "Orisha"
This was your post:

an Orisha is a selected consciousness within the great consciousness which makes infinite possibilities known as ELEDUMARE.

Next...

And yes, my question go again, 'we are worshipper of Gods (Aborisha), pls tell us why you disagree on the term 'worship'

You explained worship as veneration.
You said:

We humans have Ori which can be venerated while it is been recognised by self (egoism) or others (as ancestors or mentors) therefore we are Orisha or Gods.

While I agree that we have consciousness, I disagree that we venerate it by acknowledging it.

You also said:

Are we not worshipping, venerating, giving praises, or serving our parents, heroes, self, leaders, mentors and role-players?

I do not agree. Honoring or respecting people is not necessarily veneration.

You also said:

Money (Idol) represent wealth (Orisha).

You said wealth is God(consciousness) Explain.

The bible confirmed people worship it. It is the God of ages, we recognise it through our work, strive and will of expansing it. It is sacred cuz many had and can kill for it so we preserve it as holy idol.

People "worshipping" money does not make it conscious. You posit everything is conscious-- including money-- so all consciousness is god?

Are we not venerating money?

Not everybody holds money in high esteem.
The same applies here:

Nationalism, they said is Idolatory. The earth has it Ori and we serve our territory, town and country which are being recognised as a special/sacred entity. Need I stress on Flags and coat of arms we honour, the anthems we sing raining praises or the pledges to serve and loyal to?

If you mean "worship" as honor, then I acquiesce.

JustCalMeDBoss: I just hate God

How do you hate something that doesn't exist?

FOLYKAZE:

I cant find Orisha Aje which Jesus claimed people of his days are worshipping here.

Neither you cant deny you worship Orisha Aje. . .

Continue this your confusion

Lol Christians and muslims don't know They worship Aje.

Let me see them nt work for Money

I recently heard a Muslim greet "eku ora Aje"
That is welldone with the work of Aje, the God of wealth, trade and business.
I laughed that this same nigger would curse Aje later.

mcfynest:


This is no gaddem astrology, this is faith, Jesus is the son of God, He was born,died n ressurrected after 3 days, he is the Image of the supreme God. No complex theory, very simple and direct!

This is hope!
yes your Bible calls it Faith but common sense would call it hope.

macof:


Lol Christians and muslims don't know They worship Aje.

Let me see them nt work for Money

I recently heard a Muslim greet "eku ora Aje"
That is welldone with the work of Aje, the God of wealth, trade and business.
I laughed that this same nigger would curse Aje later.

I'm a little bit confused on this "Aje" things...

Is Orisha Aje = witch

Or good market..?

Or is it by pronunciation or context...

Apatheist:
Not worship per se, unless respect and honor is what you mean by worship?

It is still the same thing, use any meaning or synonmy you like.

Apatheist: I have read the article. It seems Panpsychim is anthropomorphism applied to everything. I still maintain it has roots in solipsism.

Ok.

Apatheist: You used "Gods" to represent consciousness; you explained it with "Orisha"
This was your post:

Next...

You explained worship as veneration.
You said:
While I agree that we have consciousness, I disagree that we venerate it by acknowledging it.

You venerate it by showing reverent love and devotion accorded a deity (heroes), an idol (money or national Identity), or a sacred object.

Apatheist: You also said: I do not agree. Honoring or respecting people is not necessarily veneration.

Veneration means showing great respect.

You got it wrong here.

Apatheist: You also said: You said wealth is God(consciousness) Explain.
People "worshipping" money does not make it conscious. You posit everything is conscious-- including money-- so all consciousness is god? Not everybody holds money in high esteem.

Money, the paper or coin is the Idol representing the God of wealth. Consciousness there that drive and effect us is the value of wealth the paper note carries.

People have 'reverent love' (worship) for money

Apatheist: The same applies here: If you mean "worship" as honor, then I acquiesce.

Actually, you are confusing veneration and worship to bowing down in a shrine. Can you pls help define what worship and veneration is?

GooseBaba:

I'm a little bit confused on this "Aje" things...

Is Orisha Aje = witch

Or good market..?

Or is it by pronunciation or context...

Aje pronouce A-jel is witch

Aje pronounce A-jay is wealth

Apatheist:
How do you hate something that doesn't exist?

This is another thing that shows you atheist are . . . .


To the Jains, God is the universe itself. Can you then say God is not existing?

To the Aborisha, your friend, mouth, parents and your self are Gods. Does that mean your parents, mouth, friends and self do nt exist?


I bow for this your thinking o

JustCalMeDBoss: I just hate God

Hatheist. We know ya

GooseBaba: Hmmmm....I once told my mum that I'm my own Orisha.. The woman shout.. "GOD FORBID. " so I rephrased my statement. That my "Ori" is superior to any deity. Without my Ori there is no consciousness of being spiritual/physical. Therefore, being an "Aborisha" in the physical sum of things is looking for trouble.

I say this with the verse understanding that Ogun, Sango, Olukun are regarded as Orishas. To then call myself an Aborisha is setting myself up for unwarranted spiritual testing in the fourth realm... because the Gods could care less, but man will always want proof and set forth his inquisitive ways that might lead to bad bad bad things.. You get me..

With my Ori I exist, with my Ori I connect with my spirit/mind/soul. With my Ori I connect with my body/physical self. I nourish myself with my ability to understand my reality, needs and self preservation.

Therefore, my Ori tells me to leave "Abo" and "Sha" to the Gods... in pronunciation. But in practice I have no choice..

Ti Orisha o ba gbe ni, a pa ti ni. . .meaning if an Orisha is not favouring you, just negate it. There is no wahala.


It is even said that 'Ori eni la bo, aba fi Orisha sile: meaning we should have venerated our Ori leaving alone the Orisha.


Good you admit you are Aborisha in practise.

Orisha system is a way of life. . . . .

macof:


Lol Christians and muslims don't know They worship Aje.

Let me see them nt work for Money

I recently heard a Muslim greet "eku ora Aje"
That is welldone with the work of Aje, the God of wealth, trade and business.
I laughed that this same nigger would curse Aje later.

What I call ignorance.


The christian and muslim would also greet themselves, se Aje wa, Aje a wa o, Aje a wogba sele or se e raje. Meaning has the god of wealth come?, The god of wealth would come, The god of wealth would turn the stock to it abode OR have you seen the god of wealth?


There was a day I heard a pastor praying in a naming ceremony. He said 'agan a te owo ala bo'sun' meaning the barren would put their bright hands into Osun. Osun is the Goddess of fertility. And the saying mean the barren would put to bed.


Thses are the set of people you would see in the church and mosque insulting Orisha.

FOLYKAZE:

This is another thing that shows you atheist are . . . .


To the Jains, God is the universe itself. Can you then say God is not existing?

To the Aborisha, your friend, mouth, parents and your self are Gods. Does that mean your parents, mouth, friends and self do nt exist?


I bow for this your thinking o

.

FOLYKAZE:

This is another thing that shows you atheist are . . . .


To the Jains, God is the universe itself. Can you then say God is not existing?

To the Aborisha, your friend, mouth, parents and your self are Gods. Does that mean your parents, mouth, friends and self do nt exist?


I bow for this your thinking o

I acquiesce. We are all Aborisha

Ok, i can define worship as honour, veneration, adoration admiration....

So yes we worship many things, even those who are monotheistic worship their parents, their friends...etc.

I differ from your position in some points, i'm sure you know i don't consider the universe and situations to be conscious. Thus i don't believe in orisha. Secondly i don't believe all worship is "godful" worship. Adoration is the worship reserved for God, and while i believe we all worship plenty things, monotheist only adores the one God.

We are not all aborisha because we do no all believe in the orisha, we all worship some things but adoration reserved honour. But i have say it completely makes sense if you believe universe is conscious.