Fulaman198:

God said they are. Equal in what sense? Being physically stronger than someone does not make you superior. I am most likely not to brag, physically stronger than most people here (men is whom I'm referring to). That does not make me better than anyone else.

If we really want to understand equality, then we should be able to make specific definition we are looking at. Islam states that human being are equal based on origin, but differentiation came up so as to be able to identify ourselves and be able to see our differences and appreciate what Allah has bestowed upon us, thus, we have nations, tribes and ethnicity, gender, strong, weak, rich, poor etc.
Still, all these differences does not matter, does not make anyone superior to the other, except in the case of piety, which only Allah knows of, and every individual has equal opportunity to achieve based on the specific roles Allah has stated clearly in His Book and related to us by His messenger (SAW).

Looking at the purpose of life according to Islam, even though we can conveniently explain all what Islam preaches logically, the most important thing is to worship Allah, and attain his favour, so it really does not matter who is given what right at the end of the day, since this life is just a test.

Fulaman198:

Again, you are speaking of things from an arithmetic/mathematical sense. We are not discussing mathematics. One word can have many different variations in the English language and many other languages as well.

Like I said, there are no alternate meanings of equality.

See, I have studied the Quran for a few years at a level higher than many . I am also schooled in the US. I know what secularism and Islam offers so I find it ridiculous to even read what you wrote about favouritism.

For me, it displays a level of ignorance that is worrisome for one who professes the islamic faith but it is not your fault.

In Medieval times, Christian scholars criticized Islam for giving Women too much freedom - now they say Islam doesn't give them enough.

The West has made their own culture (no matter what it believes) the criteria of Rationality! Excuse me for leaving flock of sheep, but I'll stick to demanding intellectual justification before I am persuaded.

Do you know that a muslim woman keeps her family name after marriage? at least she is not compelled to change it...

(Do you complain about favoritism here?)

Do you also know that whatever she earns as salary belongs to her ALONE? She does not have any obligation to share her wages with anyone?

Did you know that inheritance rights that western women only came in force a century ago and muslim women had this for over 1400 years?

Do you know that Islamic history is littered with thousands of female scholars when some people were arguing about whether a woman has a soul?

"At a time when feudal Europe was riddled with hierarchy, Islam was presented as an anarchic religion that gave too much respect and freedom to menials, such as slaves and women" Karen Armstrong -Historian

"the Muslims were horrified to see the way Western Christians treated their women in the Crusader states, and Christian scholars denounced Islam for giving too much power to menials like slaves and women" Karen Armstrong - Historian

To accuse the Quran of favoritism is to accuse God of favouritism and appropriating your intelligence to be superior.

tbaba1234:

Like I said, there are no alternate meanings of equality.

See, I have studied the Quran for a few years at a level higher than many . I am also schooled in the US. I know what secularism and Islam offers so I find it ridiculous to even read what you wrote about favouritism.

For me, it displays a level of ignorance that is worrisome for one who professes the islamic faith but it is not your fault.

In Medieval times, Christian scholars criticized Islam for giving Women too much freedom - now they say Islam doesn't give them enough.

The West has made their own culture (no matter what it believes) the criteria of Rationality! Excuse me for leaving flock of sheep, but I'll stick to demanding intellectual justification before I am persuaded.

Do you know that a muslim woman keeps her family name after marriage? at least she is not compelled to change it...

(Do you complain about favoritism here?)

Do you also know that whatever she earns as salary belongs to her ALONE? She does not have any obligation to share her wages with anyone?

Did you know that inheritance rights that western women only came in force a century ago and muslim women had this for over 1400 years?

Do you know that Islamic history is littered with thousands of female scholars when some people were arguing about whether a woman has a soul?

"At a time when feudal Europe was riddled with hierarchy, Islam was presented as an anarchic religion that gave too much respect and freedom to menials, such as slaves and women" Karen Armstrong -Historian

"the Muslims were horrified to see the way Western Christians treated their women in the Crusader states, and Christian scholars denounced Islam for giving too much power to menials like slaves and women" Karen Armstrong - Historian

To accuse the Quran of favoritism is to accuse God of favouritism and appropriating your intelligence to be superior.

That is an act of disbelief.

I schooled in the United States as well, but you don't see me mentioning it. I am quite aware of Western false propaganda, and how Westerners treat women. However, this is not what the topic is about. We need to be truthful with ourselves. The Bible does not treat women as equals either.

In regards to equality, I must debunk what you have written:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Social_equality

This is one of the several variations of equality. We should not have gone that far, however, I need to.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equality

I think you should read both articles in order to get a clearer understanding of equality.

Fulaman198:

I schooled in the United States as well, but you don't see me mentioning it. I am quite aware of Western false propaganda, and how Westerners treat women. However, this is not what the topic is about. We need to be truthful with ourselves. The Bible does not treat women as equals either.

I know that.

Equality again??,

Islam is more concerned with justice.

tbaba1234:

Yes, I agree.

Islam places obligations on both parties to achieve this.

Ideally, a man is obligated to cater for his family and protect them. Common sense, he is generally the stronger of the two and is more equiped to do the catering (generally). He is the head of the home.

If a woman contributes her resources, it is her discretion not an obligation. Meaning she can not be compelled to spend.

Also, a woman is the caretaker of the home. A man is expected to assist as well in achieving this.

Does it make sense to place sets of obligations by gender when the reality of being a parent is inclusive of all these obligations?

Anyway, I feel like we've strayed from the point.

EnlightenedSoul:

Does it make sense to place sets of obligations by gender when the reality of being a parent is inclusive of all these obligations?

Anyway, I feel like we've strayed from the point.

Yes it does.

I think that was explained too.

Imagine, you run an organisation for smooth operation, everyone does his part and roles help the overall objectives. Otherwise it will be chaos.

You have a manager and you have the owner. There is a hierarchy. There are meetings between members of staff to determine the direction of the company but ultimate authority belongs to the owner.

The owner designates roles too

In this case, Allah is the owner of the home and the man is the head.

The head consults with his assistant on the direction of the family and they work together to make it work but the man understands that he does not have ultimate authority and defers to the owner.

tbaba1234:

Yes it does.

I think that was explained too.

Imagine, you run an organisation for smooth operation, everyone does his part and roles help the overall objectives. Otherwise it will be chaos.

You have a manager and you have the owner. There is a hierarchy. There are meetings between members of staff to determine the direction of the company but ultimate authority belongs to the owner.

The owner designates roles too

In this case, Allah is the owner of the home and the man is the head.

The head consults with his assistant on the direction of the family and they work together to make it work but the man understands that he does not have ultimate authority and defers to the owner.

Marriage isn't a company, it's a partnership between two people. The smooth running of their household directly concerns them both. Whichever agreement works to ensure this for them is what they should decide upon. You don't need the issue of who washes that dish and who pays that phone bill to be regulated for you.

EnlightenedSoul:

Marriage isn't a company, it's a partnership between two people. The smooth running of their household directly concerns them both. Whichever agreement works to ensure this for them is what they should decide upon. You don't need the issue of who washes that dish and who pays that phone bill regulated for you.

You have still decided roles haven't you?? They keep things moving.

In a muslim home, a woman might pay the phone bill. The important thing here, is that she makes that choice to take care of that bill and does not have to.

The man on the other hand has to.

Thedifference is, for the muslim home, we believe, God is the ultimate authority.

A company is an analogy and a very appropriate one. A partnership still needs roles to operate effectively. Leadership and consultation is also needed in a home.

A couple will definitely have to decide what works best for them.

A woman can decide to take up all bills but it has to be her choice.

tbaba1234:

You have still decided roles haven't you?? They keep things moving.

In a muslim home, a woman might pay the phone bill. The important thing here, is that she makes that choice to take care of that bill and does not have to.

The man on the other hand has to.

Thedifference is, for the muslim home, we believe, God is the ultimate authority.

A company is an analogy and a very appropriate one. A partnership still needs roles to operate effectively. Leadership and consultation is also needed in a home.

A couple will definitely have to decide what works best for them.

A woman can decide to take up all bills but it has to be her choice.

Impractical. She pays because they've divided their expenses, and one of them has to. It's her role

Where are these roles? In the Quran? Or are you referring to the reports on how Fatima and Ali ran their home in Hadiths?

EnlightenedSoul:

Impractical. She pays because they've divided their expenses, and one of them has to.

Where are these roles? In the Quran? Or are you referring to the reports on how Fatima and Ali ran their home in Hadiths?

What exactly is impractical?

One case is, wife tells husband that she will take care of x and y because she wants to help the husband.

Another case, husband makes her take up responsibilities.

This is from the Quran, you can read this:

https://www.nairaland.com/1227184/couple-relations-roles-conflict-resolution

tbaba1234:

What exactly is impractical?

One case is, wife tells husband that she will take care of x and y because she wants to help the husband.

Another case, husband makes her take up responsibilities.

This is from the Quran, you can read this:

https://www.nairaland.com/1227184/couple-relations-roles-conflict-resolution

Lengthy - I'll read it and let you know.

Regarding the topic at hand, what is the outcome of a Muslim woman marrying a non-Muslim man in Islamic jurisprudence? Like, what happens?

EnlightenedSoul:

Lengthy - I'll read it and let you know.

Regarding the topic at hand, what is the outcome of a Muslim woman marrying a non-Muslim man in Islamic jurisprudence? Like, what happens?

This explains the money issue too:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fjGyS1kqMA

tbaba1234:

This explains the money issue too:


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8fjGyS1kqMA

It's not as if I'm unfamiliar with that view. It's just never made sense to me. Also, the guy in the video made it seem like you have to ask permission to take the job in the first place. So your husband controls whether you make money to begin with, and can prevent you from doing so? Yikes, that's just another can of worms...

Your earlier link was also uncomfortable in some aspects, but that's just my opinion.

I can understand the need for this thread.

Some muslim sisters see a non-muslim guy who is righteous in every sense. The non-muslim guy works hard, is nice to everyone, does charity to the community and children like him.....BUT HE IS NOT A MUSLIM.

This same non-muslim guy doesnt judge the muslima like how her male muslim acquaintances do. He doesnt expect her to wear hijab or dress in a certain way. He cooks for her sometimes.


Now, she has fallen in love with this non-muslim guy. She tries to convert him, he laughs in her face. He tells her that she can follow whatever religion she likes but he is not into religion.



The dilemma comes when her parents introduce her to an older muslim man (Alhaji) who is a bit wealthy but not as handsome or polite as the non-muslim. This Alhaji wants to marry her.






Is there compulsion in religion? Can she be a muslim and marry her non-muslim sweetheart?

Or is an older Alhaji with 3 wives already a better choice?

Should she wait for a younger muslim that might never come or understand her like her non-muslim sweetheart?





#the muslima dilemma

TheBigUrban2: I can understand the need for this thread.

Some muslim sisters see a non-muslim guy who is righteous in every sense. The non-muslim guy works hard, is nice to everyone, does charity to the community and children like him.....BUT HE IS NOT A MUSLIM.

This same non-muslim guy doesnt judge the muslima like how her male muslim acquaintances do. He doesnt expect her to wear hijab or dress in a certain way. He cooks for her sometimes.


Now, she has fallen in love with this non-muslim guy. She tries to convert him, he laughs in her face. He tells her that she can follow whatever religion she likes but he is not into religion.



The dilemma comes when her parents introduce her to an older muslim man (Alhaji) who is a bit wealthy but not as handsome or polite as the non-muslim. This Alhaji wants to marry her.






Is there compulsion in religion? Can she be a muslim and marry her non-muslim sweetheart?

Or is an older Alhaji with 3 wives already a better choice?

Should she wait for a younger muslim that might never come or understand her like her non-muslim sweetheart?





#the muslima dilemma

Generalisations everywhere

Fulaman198:

Generalisations everywhere

I was talking from personal experience. But proceed with your false opinion, please

TheBigUrban2:





I was talking from personal experience. But proceed with your false opinion, please

Let us assume my opinion is false, Your opinion is not more correct. Your opinion has no scientific basis, thus why I labelled it as a generalisation. No 2 people act the same manner.

tbaba1234:

Like I said, there are no alternate meanings of equality.

See, I have studied the Quran for a few years at a level higher than many . I am also schooled in the US. I know what secularism and Islam offers so I find it ridiculous to even read what you wrote about favouritism.

For me, it displays a level of ignorance that is worrisome for one who professes the islamic faith but it is not your fault.

In Medieval times, Christian scholars criticized Islam for giving Women too much freedom - now they say Islam doesn't give them enough.

The West has made their own culture (no matter what it believes) the criteria of Rationality! Excuse me for leaving flock of sheep, but I'll stick to demanding intellectual justification before I am persuaded.

Do you know that a muslim woman keeps her family name after marriage? at least she is not compelled to change it...

(Do you complain about favoritism here?)

Do you also know that whatever she earns as salary belongs to her ALONE? She does not have any obligation to share her wages with anyone?

Did you know that inheritance rights that western women only came in force a century ago and muslim women had this for over 1400 years?

Do you know that Islamic history is littered with thousands of female scholars when some people were arguing about whether a woman has a soul?

"At a time when feudal Europe was riddled with hierarchy, Islam was presented as an anarchic religion that gave too much respect and freedom to menials, such as slaves and women" Karen Armstrong -Historian

"the Muslims were horrified to see the way Western Christians treated their women in the Crusader states, and Christian scholars denounced Islam for giving too much power to menials like slaves and women" Karen Armstrong - Historian

To accuse the Quran of favoritism is to accuse God of favouritism and appropriating your intelligence to be superior.

One learns new things everyday, may Allah reward you. Amin

Fulaman198:

Let us assume my opinion is false, Your opinion is not more correct. Your opinion has no scientific basis, thus why I labelled it as a generalisation. No 2 people act the same manner.

Was I talking about all muslims? Please dont derail with your pseudoscience

TheBigUrban2:


Was I talking about all muslims? Please dont derail with your pseudoscience

This is not derailing at the very least. The way you were talking about finding the "non-Muslim" boyfriend was as if there are no Muslim men out there that would go out of their way to do sweet things for women.

Fulaman198:

I would marry a non-Fulani, but I would like her to have some interest in my culture because ideally I would like me children to speak Fulfulde

Really considering your views about culture i have read, i would assume you wouldnt. so you would marry someone you cant speak fulfulde with. so how do your children learn it? most intertribal marriages i know the children usually learn their mother language and few learn their father language.

Sissie:

Really considering your views about culture i have read, i would assume you wouldnt. so you would marry someone you cant speak fulfulde with. so how do your children learn it? most intertribal marriages i know the children usually learn their mother language and few learn their father language.

Haba! Not only Fulani people speak Fulfulde in Nigeria, there are Vutes and others in the Northeast that speak the language as well. As long as I find a woman who genuinely loves me, that's all I care about. But I want a real African woman, not a watered down Westernised African woman .

Yes, I am very traditional, and I love the Fulfulde language. The reason I place so much emphasis on it is because in other countries that possess Fulani populations, the language is not being tossed aside for another language like it is in Nigeria. I think it is important for children to know another African language (or 2) asides English/French.

What are your views on that?

Fulaman198:

Haba! Not only Fulani people speak Fulfulde in Nigeria, there are Vutes and others in the Northeast that speak the language as well. As long as I find a woman who genuinely loves me, that's all I care about. But I want a real African woman, not a watered down Westernised African woman .

Yes, I am very traditional, and I love the Fulfulde language. The reason I place so much emphasis on it is because in other countries that possess Fulani populations, the language is not being tossed aside for another language like it is in Nigeria. I think it is important for children to know another African language (or 2) asides English/French.

What are your views on that?

@bolded are you saying a woman who can speak fulani even though she's not one is who you can marry?
So what if you find a woman who genuinely loves you but is not really interested in your culture, not very traditional and can't speak your language can you love her back?

Who's a real African woman, what are the criteria's. Although I see myself as an African.

I think the African culture is rich, diverse and beautiful, I can't restrict myself to just one, and be identified by just one, I love different things about different cultures, I am not particularly ingrained in one and am influenced by different cultures from Hausa to Yoruba.

I agree with you @second bonded, kids should learn at least one African language.

Sissie:

@bolded are you saying a woman who can speak fulani even though she's not one is who you can marry?
So what if you find a woman who genuinely loves you but is not really interested in your culture, not very traditional and can't speak your language can you love her back?

Who's a real African woman, what are the criteria's. Although I see myself as an African.

I think the African culture is rich, diverse and beautiful, I can't restrict myself to just one, and be identified by just one, I love different things about different cultures, I am not particularly ingrained in one and am influenced by different cultures from Hausa to Yoruba.

I agree with you @second bonded, kids should learn at least one African language.

Wow Sissie, are you saying I won't find a woman who genuinely loves me and also speaks Fulfulde . I hope that won't happen. I hope that I find a woman who is at least interested in the Fulani culture.

A woman with an amazing heart is the most important thing to me. Inshallah I will find such a woman.

A real African woman is one that values her respective African culture(s). She doesn't sell it out to foreign cultures.

Fulaman198:

Wow Sissie, are you saying I won't find a woman who genuinely loves me and also speaks Fulfulde . I hope that won't happen. I hope that I find a woman who is at least interested in the Fulani culture.

A woman with an amazing heart is the most important thing to me. Inshallah I will find such a woman.

A real African woman is one that values her respective African culture(s). She doesn't sell it out to foreign cultures.

Am not saying you won't, Insha Allah you would find her, but if its very important to you she speaks fulfulde, and you are hoping it wont happen to you that shes at least interested in your culture, you probably cant imagine been married to a yoruba woman who is only interested in yoruba culture and is interested in teaching her kids only yoruba language and culture, english they can learn from school/society, then you should at least understand a little bit even if you do not agree why its a criteria in Islam for a woman to marry ONLY a muslim, and a man should marry a Muslim and people of the book ONLY and not a buddhist or hindu. since Muslims ideally should believe Islam is the most important thing, much more important than their culture.

I understand your point is people should be able to marry anyone they feel like without hindrance or exceptions but should be based on their personal criteria i.e LOVE, well that's the thing Islam is not just a religion but a way of life, it has its own culture, its own rules and laws, the non muslim spouse would not be interested in. while there are cases where by the non muslim poses no hindrance to their muslim spouse thats the exception not the norm
I can also apply your real african woman definition to say a real muslim is one who values the islamic culture, she/he doesn't sell it out not even for love.
its a myth to believe love conquers all.

Honestly i could not believe its Deol asking this kind of question.Maybe you are far away from Quran and ahadith this days, because the marriage contract is illegal,any consumation done outside
Allahs's jurisdiction is haram,hence adultery.

deols: Does this make a Muslim woman kaafir??

Please answer. Thanks

You are right

sino:
To me, the only excuse worth considering is ignorance, anything else is self desire.

Sissie:

Am not saying you won't, Insha Allah you would find her, but if its very important to you she speaks fulfulde, and you are hoping it wont happen to you that shes at least interested in your culture, you probably cant imagine been married to a yoruba woman who is only interested in yoruba culture and is interested in teaching her kids only yoruba language and culture, english they can learn from school/society, then you should at least understand a little bit even if you do not agree why its a criteria in Islam for a woman to marry ONLY a muslim, and a man should marry a Muslim and people of the book ONLY and not a buddhist or hindu. since Muslims ideally should believe Islam is the most important thing, much more important than their culture.

I understand your point is people should be able to marry anyone they feel like without hindrance or exceptions but should be based on their personal criteria i.e LOVE, well that's the thing Islam is not just a religion but a way of life, it has its own culture, its own rules and laws, the non muslim spouse would not be interested in. while there are cases where by the non muslim poses no hindrance to their muslim spouse thats the exception not the norm
I can also apply your real african woman definition to say a real muslim is one who values the islamic culture, she/he doesn't sell it out not even for love.
its a myth to believe love conquers all.

I don't mind if a Yoruba woman teaches my possible future children Yoruba language, I just would like her to at least have an interest in Fulfulde language and Pulaagu (albeit even if the interest is very slight).

We say that Islam is a culture/way of life, it can be, but Islam is not as universal as you may think it is. It is not practised the same way everywhere in the world.

In addition, many Arabs for example only marry Arabs. I think they are even more strict than I am.

uplawal: Honestly i could not believe its Deol asking this kind of question.Maybe you are far away from Quran and ahadith this days, because the marriage contract is illegal,any consumation done outside
Allahs's jurisdiction is haram,hence adultery.

Lawal, please don't be so judgemental or quick to judge.

tbaba1234: Ok, awon matchmakers . I am not 'looking'.

Thank you.

I was imagining this will be a good match. Oh well.

I immediately checked if i will see tbaba's and deols pp but no show.

andromida:

I was imagining this will be a good match. Oh well.

I immediately checked if i will see tbaba's and deols pp but no show.

I didnt see tbaba1234's response before. I am so embarrassed.