Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? - Sports (3) - Nairaland
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Poll: Muhammed Ali, Mike Tyson, or Rocky Marciano?Muhammed Ali: 70% (48 votes)Mike Tyson: 26% (18 votes) Rocky Marciano: 2% (2 votes) This poll has ended |
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| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by Sauron1: 7:20pm On Oct 21, 2008 |
A-40: I should stop arguing when u have not provided any cutting edge analysis why Ali is the greatest boxer of all time. Tyson never recovered cos he went to prison. . . . .U cannot compare someone locked in the prison with no adequate or state of the art gym to ALI that was just banned from fighting cos of Vietnam war issue. . . . .ALI was still able to train with his sparring partner and all that schitzo. Iron Mike on the other hand had to fight mental abuse, emotional torture at a very young age. . . It's incomparable.
There's no sting in your points. . . . . .Whether Ali was knocked out once or five times is not the issue. Tyson did what ALI couldn't have done in his time. . . . .He was putting down niggas twice his size within seconds. Winning bouts after bouts with killer punches and supreme techniques yet equalled in the world of boxing. There can never be anutha TYSON. He was a beast!!!
ALI was a wuss. . . . . .His mouth runs faster than a locomotive train thus a fan of the media. . . . . I wouldn't even put Ali in ma top ten of the greatest boxers in the world. |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by A40(m): 7:53pm On Oct 21, 2008 |
~Sauron~:Keep making excuses for your man so its your points that have a cutting edge? my question to you was why wasn't he able to bounce back from any of his defeats you have not answered that up till now!! there is a difference between being merely a champion and being a great champion if you don't realize this by now then why am i even bothering arguing with you You keep saying he went to Prison what does his going to prison have to do with this for God's sake its not like he didn't win aby fight after he came out of prison or did he lose all his fights after coming out of prison? did he not murder Lou Savarese in 38 seconds how about Frank Bruno and Bruce Seldon Clifford Etieene nko? why is it when he faced real men like Evander and Lennox and got a beat down that you just realized he came out of Prison and he didn't have any time to train his going to prison was even an advantage because his ass had been exposed by Buster Douglas ~Sauron~:Tyson knocked down chumps that where twice his size! name any hall of famer that was among the cats he knocked down.Ali knocked down greats that would be rated higher than Tyson in boxing folklore Liston,Foreman,Norton these are guys that would bury Tyson alive i repeat.Tyson was a lame only a wimp gets knocked down five times jeez even Samuel Peters was not knocked down five times  ~Sauron~:I wouldn't put Tyson in my top 20 of greatest boxers ever |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by kaypumpin2(m): 12:33am On Oct 22, 2008 |
@sauron U still on this.The way u place ur arguments and lace em with sophistry makes dem articulate but not real.Even Tyson will balk and choke if he sees the way u r comparing him with the greatest.@ 35 Ali was still stingin Shaven(dunno if i get this right).This is a dude that that 98% of K.O prior to meetin Ali.He stalked and bullied Ali all thru but just @ the last round man,go watch the hero change a fight under 2 mins after enuff pummelling.These are hard facts and proof of a legend.Not some dogged pugilist who can give but cant take.Tyson is good in his own ways but hes limited.He can go the distance.Hes good and he wldnt even call himself the greatest |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by dayokanu(m): 12:45am On Oct 22, 2008 |
Tyson murdered Spinks and Holmes who was Ali's nemesis. Ruddock? Tyson was a beast who fought people Bigger and taller than him and won with astounding ruthlessness. don't tell me height does not matter in Boxing with a shorter reach he brought all to the canvas |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by kaypumpin2(m): 12:51am On Oct 22, 2008 |
i bet u found it convenient arguing for the sake of it,but really dayo tell me truthfully,was spinks and holmes @ their prime wen Tyson fought them?Really i need a honest response |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by dayokanu(m): 1:34am On Oct 22, 2008 |
Spinks was at his prime. Maybe Holmes was not but Spinks was surely at his peak. |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by kaypumpin2(m): 1:50am On Oct 22, 2008 |
For once i got a candid response as per Holmes.But go fig bro,spinks was in that ring for cool cash em tyson's bout was bringin den.All promo and shindig.Ali is the greatest,maybe u will understand if its typed like:Ali ist der größte |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by A40(m): 2:21am On Oct 22, 2008 |
Spinks was not in his prime neither was Holmes besides Ali came back to beat Spinks the obvious point is that Tyson is not and would not be rated the greatest boxer ever it would be a disgrace to the Sports of Boxing if Tyson is the best it can offer |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by hebro1: 2:53am On Oct 22, 2008 |
Well Iron Mike was the Greatest that never was. He remained a huge potential. A legend turned Myth. His disgraceful dive into the abyss is not worthy of any legend. Ali was definitely "THE LORD OF THE RING" - ONE champion who ruled them all; and with style too - well except for the naval officer Ken Norton. For Marciano, he never was my generation and there really isnt enough tv clips to judge him so i stick with the devils i know. IT IS DEFINITELY ALI!!!!!!! 1 Like |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by A40(m): 3:08am On Oct 22, 2008 |
He did beat Norton twice he would have had an even better record if he had retired after the Spinks fight the guy was just too great and his influence went beyond Sports thats why it gets on my last raw nerve each time i hear peeps compare him to a half-stepping chump like Tyson who never lived up to his potential |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by hebro1: 3:16am On Oct 22, 2008 |
Yes he did beat Norton- officially but you need to c the fights. Ali just did not have a formula for the guy. I lov Ali but for the politix of the Game, Norton clearly one at least one their fights |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by comechop(m): 7:35am On Oct 22, 2008 |
~Sauron~: You just lost any form of credibility after making that statement. I'm gonna advice everybody to desist reading any more of your comments unless you take it back. |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by IBEXY(m): 9:25am On Oct 22, 2008 |
Tyson was an animal - that is what made him special. Ali played to the media and they loved his pretty boy face and his loud mouth. He was special but Tyson was something else. I think Tyson is better. Check him out here. His greatest knockouts. Note most of the people were almost twice his size. http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=5v0vl6iTlC4 |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by Ibime(m): 10:17am On Oct 22, 2008 |
Una still dey here dey argue this thing? Anybody who watches ESPN knows that Bernt Sugar is boxing's officionado historian. He is the only man who saw them all, from Jack Dempsey to the Brown Bomber to Sugar Ray to Ali to Holmes and then the Tyson era. Let us accept his wisdom and move on: Copy and paste: [center]"Boxing's Greatest Fighters" is a List Only Sugar Could Put Together[/center][center]By Aaron Tallent[/center] Bert Sugar has remained boxing’s foremost authority for decades now. Love him or smirk at him (sometimes both), he has served as the sport’s resident historian, rehashing tales from the turn of the century with his whiskey-soaked flair. Even when the heavyweight champions are unrecognizable, the mystique of Sugar’s fedora shading an unlit cigar remains constant. There are other boxing journalists with a national platform. Ron Borges, Jerry Izenberg, and Dan Rafael are just a few, but Sugar was to Ken Burns’ Unforgivable Blackness: The Rise and Fall of Jack Johnson what Shelby Foote was to The Civil War. Part of it is due to his caricature, but most of it is because of his colorful ability to tell a story. Which is why most boxing aficionados lick their chops at the thought of the newly released edition of Sugar’s coffee table book, Boxing’s Greatest Fighters. Sitting around, placing a fighter’s standing in the annals of boxing is a sports fan’s guilty pleasure. However, only a historian along the lines of Sugar could put together a list of the top 100 fighters of all time that dates back to the days of John L. Sullivan. The criteria for his rankings is not simply based on size, speed, or power. It is also based on the accomplishments and the era in which that particular fighter competed. One more important factor is that the fighters are ranked based on their peak form. As Sugar put it: “Because so many greats end their careers not with a bang, but with an ‘L,’ as in loss, we would be forced to conclude, erroneously of course, that an Alvin Green was better than an Ezzard Charles, or a Trevor Berbick better than a Muhammad Ali, or a Chester Slider better than a Henry Armstrong, on and on and on, so many greats ending their careers with an ‘L.’” Hats off to Sugar in that regard. Any yahoo could put together a list of rankings based on won-lost records and spend an entire book justifying his decision. Instead, Sugar explains his rationale on the front end and spends the rest of his 350 page book focusing on the rich histories of his chosen few. His all-time greatest pound-for-pound fighter is no surprise. Sugar Ray Robinson is a given. The rest of the list can be up for debate. Reading through the list, it is apparent that he pondered heavily on the placement of each fighter. Also in that ESPN report, Sugar said Larry Holmes was the number ten all-time heavyweight and Evander Holyfield was on the cusp of the elite ten. However, in his book, Sugar ranks Holyfield ahead of Holmes because of his amazing cruiserweight career as well. While he does praise the fighters for their superiority in the ring, Sugar is by no means boxing’s James Lipton. He shows the boxers for what made them great, but is not afraid to explain what hindered their careers either. For many greats of the first half of the 20th century, the problem was alcohol. There is no telling what Harry Greb, Mickey Walker and Lew Jenkins could have accomplished had they not been heavy drinkers. Others, like Wilfred Benitez, demeaned their greatness by their refusal to properly train. Another area where Sugar sets himself apart is the rich historical tidbits that he offers about each fighter. The book tells you which fighter coined the phrase, “Bringing home the bacon,” and which fighter served as bagman for Arnold Rothstein and the 1919 Chicago “Black Sox” scandal. This is ESPN's list of greatest boxers. Bert Sugar's list is not too dissimilar. Both lists rank Sugar Ray Robinson as no 1. However Bert Sugar puts Joe Louis ahead of Ali whilst ESPN has it the other way around. ESPN ranks Mike Tyson as no 50 whilst Bert Sugar ranks him as no 25: [size=14pt]ESPN's list[/size] Sugar Ray Robinson Muhammad Ali Henry Armstrong Joe Louis Willie Pep Roberto Duran Benny Leonard Jack Johnson Jack Dempsey Sam Langford Joe Gans Sugar Ray Leonard Harry Greb Rocky Marciano Jimmy Wilde Gene Tunney Mickey Walker Archie Moore Stanley Ketchel George Foreman Tony Canzoneri Barney Ross Jimmy McLarnin Julio Cesar Chavez Marcel Cerdan Joe Frazier Ezzard Charles Jake LaMotta Sandy Sadler Terry McGovern Billy Conn Jose Napoles Ruben Olivares Emile Griffith Marvin Hagler Eder Jofre Thomas Hearns Larry Holmes Oscar De la Hoya Evander Holyfield Ted Lewis Alexis Arguello Marco Antonio Berrera Pernel Whitaker Carlos Monzon Roy Jones Jr. Bernard Hopkins Floyd Mayweather Jr. Erik Morales Mike Tyson Any boxing pundit who puts Mike Tyson as no 1 is committing career suicide. QED. |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by Nobody: 1:15pm On Oct 22, 2008 |
Dayokanu Ali fought Leon Spinks Tyson fought Michael Spinks. Believe me there's a big difference. |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by Royce29: 2:49pm On Oct 22, 2008 |
Ali is the greatest, too much finesse to be compared to rocky Marciano or Tyson who were great fighters no doubt but lacked finesse they were always looking to land a knockout punch if it doesn't come early they take a massive brushing b4 knocking out their challenger.finesse is why mayweather is who he is. That was what made ALI the man! |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by Nobody: 5:11pm On Oct 22, 2008 |
Mohammed Ali, remains the man, all day long |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by NextLevel1: 5:35pm On Oct 22, 2008 |
Wow, How ironic that my first post here will be about Boxing. Having carefully weighed the context and thrust of the argument, I would like to pitch my tent with A40, Easybay and most of all, Ibime. It is easy to know ardent students of boxing, their stance and the way they put forth their comments. Now, the argument: Who is the greatest heavyweight of all time? Now, we were presented with only three options, which I felt was really unfair. Why? We had Marciano, Ali and Tyson. But, I was plesantly surprised that Joe Louis name was not amongst them. Obviously the question asked appeared to be: Who was the greatest heavyweight and not "the greatest boxer of all time" since it listed only heavyweight boxers. If the question had been the latter, I wouldn't have hesitated in naming Sugar Ray Robinson as the greatest boxer of all time and with cogent reasons as well. But , that is an argument for another day. In naming the best heavyweight of any era, whilst the quick fire response will be to engage in a bias mode session, the answer is routed in objectivity regardless of the relative era of the respective trio of heavyweight boxers (Ali, Marciano and Tyson). Although I stoutly believe Louis should have been in the list. And if we were to be harsh and not include him, then it can also be reasonably argued that Tyson does not belong in that list, and Foreman should have taken his place instead. In my opinion, and most respected pundits will attest to this, my heart says Joe Louis but my head goes for Ali. Why Ali was the greatest heavyweight of all time Ali fought in an era that was incomparable to any era in terms of competition. When noting why someone is good and wants to work for a company, most employers will be impressed with not only their achivements but the high caliber of companies that the applicant has worked for. Ali fought a stubborn Joe Frasier three times. All three bouts especially the last one were epic fights. He forced Liston (the Tyson of his era to quit on his stool after 6 rounds). He beat a durable opponent in Norton twice. Knocked out a monster of a boxer in Foreman. Struggled with, but overcame a ressilient opponent in Earnie Shavers and Joe Bugner - opponents who can rightly win the heavyweight title in this era. He overcame adversity and came back on many occasions (against Frasier, Cooper, Spinks and Norton) to win. Ali may have been hyped as someone claimed, but he was made of substance. Pele and Maradona were hyped, but they both could tap the round ball brilliantly. Unlike many heavyweight boxing champions before him, except Gene Tunney, Ali introduced science to boxing. Aside from Jack John who deployed a waiting offensive game before mauling his opponents, Ali strategised against his opponents before entering the ring. He knew what he had to do against each opponent. He always had a plan B or plan C. His game plan against Liston was to upset him before the fight. In the ring, rather than hit and be hit, he developed a stick and move plan that worked to great effect. His bobbing and weaving whilst on his "bicycle", and jabbing at the same time, suddenly made Liston look old overnight and resulted in him missing his target with reckless abandon. Against Frasier, he knew Joe had a killer left, but each time Joe looked to unload, Ali knew when to grab hold of him to negate the effect of the hook. Against Foreman, Ali simply defied everyone by going out on the offensive from round 1. He surprised even Foreman. His jabs smacked against George's face at will. Although Ali had lost his bounce, he was prepared to take Foreman's best shots whilst recuperating on the ropes. Hence the "rope a dope" strategy. It was devised to let his opponent punch himself out. But it was equally effective for him to take a breather himself. Against Spinks, Ali remedied what he didn't do in their first fight by ensuring he kept the young Spinks at bay with his stinging left jab all night. He ensured he built up an early lead in the fight to win a unanimous 15 round decision. Spinks simply couldn't repeat his exploits of the first fight. And lastly, to cap it all, Ali won the heavyweight title three times. He took more punches than Marciano and Tyson put together. If Ali could beat Liston and Foreman, more fearsome in their prime than Tyson, than Ali would surely have overcome Tyson with poetry and then with clinical accuracy, outclass and out think him in the latter rounds. Tyson simply didn't have a plan B when faced with adversity. He didn't know what to do against Buster when he was in trouble. Ditto Holyfield in their first fight. And for those who claim Tyson was devastating in his era, yes he was. But against the likes of who? Thomas, Bruno (who shook him with a left i the first fight, but couldn't follow through), Briggs, a washed up Holmes, a scarry eyed Spinks, etc More often than not, he used fear as a powerful weapon to immobilize his prey whilst going for the kill. Only Buster and Holyfield were not susceptible to it (and he was still in his prime then). Marciano enjoyed a bit of longevity, but not equal to that of Joe Louis. The Rock was solid alright and took no prisoners. But his CV reads a list of fights against Archie Moore (really a light heavy), Ezzard Charles (the only durable opponent who took him the full distance), and a 38 year old Jersey Joe Walcott. When he fought Joe Louis and beat him, Joe was on a comeback trail and old. Joe Louis too had a remarkable record holding the title for 106 months with 25 world title defences. He fought durable and competitive names like Max Baer, Max Schmeling, James Bradock, Billy Conn and Jersey Joe Walcott - all talented world class champions in their own right. |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by millco88(f): 5:39pm On Oct 22, 2008 |
Sugar Ray Robinson. End of thread. |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by Nobody: 5:54pm On Oct 22, 2008 |
Well said, Next Level. Tyson? I wasn't around when Ali was at his prime,but from what I've seen (fights from my Dad's Beetamax-Ali-FrazierII&III,Ali-NortonI,II,III,Ali Spinks II),I've come to the conclusion that he was the greatest.His classic fights-coupled with the will to find a way to win,even while past his prime and against tougher opponents gives him serious credibility to stake his claim as the Greatest. Leave dayokanu (who doesn't know the difference between the Spinks of the 70s & 80s) to fool himself about that one-dimensional fighter with a flea-sized brain called Tyson who beat washed-up fighters (Holmes,Spinks) and struggled with nobodies with no pedigree (Douglas,Tony Tucker,Bonecrusher Smith). If he was talking about ?Lennox Lewis,I think he would have a point. Tyson never knew how to come back from adversity-a mark of greatness. Tyson never knew how to up his game in crunch time-another mark of greatness Tyson never fought anybody credible:jobbers like Terrell Briggs, What the hell is Tyson doing on this thread? Anybody considering Tyson as the greatest must either be smoking something or needs to have his head checked. QED |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by dayokanu(m): 6:14pm On Oct 22, 2008 |
Spinks was a World Champ who beat holmes your all time Great Spinks beat holmes twice. before Tyson wrecked him in the first round 2 years after Spinks beat Holmes |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by Sauron1: 6:47pm On Oct 22, 2008 |
dayokanu: Don't mind these historians. . . . . . Many of em never saw the phenomenom(Mike Tyson). . . . How can someone go to jail for 3 years in HIS PRIME and u expect him to just pick up and continue like nuthing happened. He was young and emotionally damaged. . . . .Picture a multi-millionaire who was prolly used to the life of opulence and all of a sudden, JAILED!!! Cheese n Rice. . . . .Only God knows what woulda happened if Iron Mike never went to jail. |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by Scopium: 7:35pm On Oct 22, 2008 |
[size=13pt]Tyson is the man[/size] |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by kaypumpin2(m): 7:52pm On Oct 22, 2008 |
Next Level: |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by dayokanu(m): 10:09pm On Oct 22, 2008 |
If Tyson had not gone to jail at that time, He could have overthrown George Bush Snr with his fist and popularity. Or won the Gulf war with Blows. Tyson was one decisive mofo he blows your brain out within seconds not Ali that Romances people on the ring Hugging, Cuddling, Kissing like long lost lovers. Tyson has no time for that shit. before the Bell tolls, You are down. |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by A40(m): 10:29pm On Oct 22, 2008 |
@NextLevel Thanks for your epistle jare these nouveau boxing fans just don't get it!! how anyone can rate Tyson as a great beggars belief  @dayokanu Make we hear word bo with your Tyson this Tyson that! how great is this Tyson? did he not lose his last fight before going to jail? you people make excuses that he never recovered from his going to jail and blah blah yet he won his first 4 or 5 fights by KO's why was he not able to replicate that form when he faced his first real test in Evander? if you answer i swear i won't argue with you anymore dont count on it Ali romances people in the ring? are you sure you ever watched any of his fights? what was romantic about the beat-down he gave to Foreman,Liston and Frazier? Eastbay:They don't even know the difference between the two Spinks can you see what we are talking about? |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by kaypumpin2(m): 10:37pm On Oct 22, 2008 |
A-40: U took the emboldened outta my |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by dayokanu(m): 2:30am On Oct 23, 2008 |
@A-40 and Kay-Pumping, did he not lose his last fight before going to jail? Are you sure you know the Tyson we are talking about Not Tyson Gay and not Tyson Beckford But Iron Mike Tyson. Because Iron Mike did not lose his last fight before going to jail. Tyson's last fight as against Razor Ruddock who was aid to be "the most dangerous heavyweight around and was thought of as one of the hardest punching heavyweights" and Iron Mike won. maybe we have been arguing about a different Tyson all the while. If you watch most of Ali's fight it was just Hugging and Cuddling all the way and some running around. |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by A40(m): 2:45am On Oct 23, 2008 |
@dayokanu Who was Razor Ruddock as compared to George Foreman and Joe Frazier or Sonny Liston a man that was more dangerous than Tyson himself i bet he is just another one of the nobodies to the growing list of unknowns that Tyson knocked down.Ddin't you mistake Leon Spinks for Michael Spinks? |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by dayokanu(m): 3:34am On Oct 23, 2008 |
Leon Spinks and Michael Spinks are different Michael was a former champ and tyson floored him in the early round. Spinks was the heavyweight champ a year before Tyson floored him. Everyone Tyson beat were nobodies But everyone Ali beat were Hercules(Frazier, norton and Coopers). Ruddock, Spinks have suddenly turned into nobodies after Tyson beat them While Douglas, Holyfield and lewis that Beat Tyson are now the real Men. The Fact is Tyson beat his Opponents like they were nobodies. Not Tyson's fault anyway. Unlike Ali who would make nobodies look strong because of the way they Hug and cuddle on the ring. The press never liked Tyson because he was a bad boy so all those listing that put everyone (including Bash Ali and Joe Lasisi) ahead of Tyson makes no sense. even Boxers who never won a leather belt |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by DavidDylan(m): 3:35am On Oct 23, 2008 |
Mike Tyson without a shred of doubt. That man made men cry like babies. |
| Re: Greatest Boxer Of All Time: Tyson, Ali Or Marciano? by Nimshi: 3:57am On Oct 23, 2008 |
Mike Tyson. Look, that guy did boxing a whole lot of good. You'd think it was professional wrestling; big guys were tumbling over like crates, and it wasn't for show. Heavy hitters became punch drunk you'd think it was fake. See the clips again. Complete entertainment and disbelief. But he wasn't a good 'politician'; couldn't manage the image. He - with lots of help - to self-destruct. Ali was the master, and Ali lifted boxing to unbelievable heights; he made boxing watchable, not a thug sport. Of course, Ali got a lot of help from his opponents already mentioned. What's sport without character? It's the whole package- Which is why Ali will always win this. Ali, the greatest.  . |
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