Bororojo:



Well, I see it as a plausible explanation.
You know, I am open to many ideas, as long as there is scientific backing behind them.

Understood, but do you think the article itself is from a viable source? I mean I have seen so many articles say different things and give different DNA results until you told me you had a Pullo friend of yours take the test, and it said 31% Berber for him and 10% Iberian which I find out. So what does that mean I wonder. I'm not going to take a test myself, I think it's a waste of time, I am proudly West African and Fulani, I'm not a Berber.

Fulaman198:


Understood, but do you think the article itself is from a viable source? I mean I have seen so many articles say different things and give different DNA results until you told me you had a Pullo friend of yours take the test, and it said 31% Berber for him and 10% Iberian which I find out. So what does that mean I wonder. I'm not going to take a test myself, I think it's a waste of time, I am proudly West African and Fulani, I'm not a Berber.

You see, being partly "berber" or 'Saharan" or whatever, does not make Fulani any less African than say a Mandingo or a Yoruba. It just means we have a segment of our ancestry from another part of mother Africa, and a segment from another part.
If I am not wrong , the article he posted was peer-reviewed... which means it has a reasonable scientific basis.

Here is the result of someone else i saw online through some googling, and this one is Guinean. And the interesting part is that is first population match his rightfully Fulani.
Fulaman, even the wodaabe (the Fula nomads), came out with about 38% North African if i remember well , Some East African, and the rest West African.

Bororojo:


The reason why I am interested is that I know a Pullo who recently took a Genetic test with one of these DNA companies.
and it showed about 31% North African*ME, and 10% Iberian. He is Nigerian living in the Tri-state area. .... Watever these DNA companies are measuring , I don't know. but i would make an educated guess and say that the Fulani can't just have a large segment of our population looking "different" from other people around us, for no reason.....

@OmarBah, you said so yourself, so What is responsible?

I did a few research on it. There are many Europeans that have crazy stories about the Fulanis. For example, Gilbert Vieillard who spent a lot of time in Fouta Djallon ,spoke the languae and wrote about us said that we are white folks that turned black due to the sun and mixing. Other French like Lelièvre said we are Gauls. Delafosse thinks we are descendants of Judeo Syrians. But of course all of this is bullshit. Our language is closer to Wolof and Serer than it is to any other language in the world. How come those two groups are dark skin and we are different? Some say that Fulanis are descendants of the hyksos and that we migrated westward from the Nile river. But the Fulanis being nomadic dispersed into different groups some going through North Africa first before going Southward. Others went directly to West Africa and a latter group went Southward before going Westward.

According to Cheick Anta Diop, most west Africans including Wolof, Serers, Soninkes came from the Nile valley. He says that Fulbe are a mixed group between black Egyptians and foreigners, Whites and Semites. He bases his theory on a few things. First of all, ours names, Ka, Ba who he believes have a Egyptian origins. He also points to the matriarch tradition, a pillar of Egyptian society, that Fulbe had before Islam.

So in conclusion, even if we tend to have different looks, culturally we are West Africans and that's what counts.

Omarbah:

I did a few research on it. There are many Europeans that have crazy stories about the Fulanis. For example, Gilbert Vieillard who spent a lot of time in Fouta Djallon ,spoke the languae and wrote about us said that we are white folks that turned black due to the sun and mixing. Other French like Lelièvre said we are Gauls. Delafosse thinks we are descendants of Judeo Syrians. But of course all of this is bullshit. Our language is closer to Wolof and Serer than it is to any other language in the world. How come those two groups are dark skin and we are different? Some say that Fulanis are descendants of the hyksos and that we migrated westward from the Nile river. But the Fulanis being nomadic dispersed into different groups some going through North Africa first before going Southward. Others went directly to West Africa and a latter group went Southward before going Westward.

According to Cheick Anta Diop, most west Africans including Wolof, Serers, Soninkes came from the Nile valley. He says that Fulbe are a mixed group between black Egyptians and foreigners, Whites and Semites. He bases his theory on a few things. First of all, ours names, Ka, Ba who he believes have a Egyptian origins. He also points to the matriarch tradition, a pillar of Egyptian society, that Fulbe had before Islam.

So in conclusion, even if we tend to have different looks, culturally we are West Africans and that's what counts.

I do not think we are culturally West African. Contrary to that. the Fulbe and the cultures of other Sahelians are even different, (Hausas, Songhai Wolof etc for example are traditionally farmers, fishermen and traders) talk less the difference between our cultures and those of our Coastal West African cousins like Igbos or Akans.
So if we are culturally west African, how come there are no other groups with a nomadic custom in all of West Africa proper, except us. Fulanis stand out first and foremost for our culture than anything else, even sometimes, culture more than looks. he only other nomads in Africa are in Eastern and Northern Africa.
All those Europeans saying Fulanis are whites or are Judeo-Syrians or whatever , clearly belonged to their own generation- scientific knowledge wasn't exactly rife at the time- at to that a bit pf racism, and you get exactly where they are coming from.

Bororojo:


You see, being partly "berber" or 'Saharan" or whatever, does not make Fulani any less African than say a Mandingo or a Yoruba. It just means we have a segment of our ancestry from another part of mother Africa, and a segment from another part.
If I am not wrong , the article he posted was peer-reviewed... which means it has a reasonable scientific basis.

Here is the result of someone else i saw online through some googling, and this one is Guinean. And the interesting part is that is first population match his rightfully Fulani.
Fulaman, even the wodaabe (the Fula nomads), came out with about 38% North African if i remember well , Some East African, and the rest West African.

That attached screenshot does not have enough details for me to properly assess it. what does the 55.68 mean it says "# population percent" is that trying to imply that 55.68% of West Africans are mixed with something else asides from "West African Ancestry" if so, I think that is a bit over the top and don't necessarily agree (though I could be wrong). Also where it says least-squared method it denotes "11.941" is that a percentage for us Ful6e? What does it signify? I would just like more details. Thank you bro.

Fulaman198:


That attached screenshot does not have enough details for me to properly assess it. what does the 55.68 mean it says "# population percent" is that trying to imply that 55.68% of West Africans are mixed with something else asides from "West African Ancestry" if so, I think that is a bit over the top and don't necessarily agree (though I could be wrong). Also where it says least-squared method it denotes "11.941" is that a percentage for us Ful6e? What does it signify? I would just like more details. Thank you bro.

Wait, let me see if i can find that website again, you will see the entire result in Full.
but that is the result of just 1 person, not necessarily all of us.

Bororojo:


I do not think we are culturally West African. Contrary to that. the Fulbe and the cultures of other Sahelians are even different, (Hausas, Songhai Wolof etc for example are traditionally farmers, fishermen and traders) talk less the difference between our cultures and those of our Coastal West African cousins like Igbos or Akans.
So if we are culturally west African, how come there are no other groups with a nomadic custom in all of West Africa proper, except us. Fulanis stand out first and foremost for our culture than anything else, even sometimes, culture more than looks. he only other nomads in Africa are in Eastern and Northern Africa.
All those Europeans saying Fulanis are whites or are Judeo-Syrians or whatever , clearly belonged to their own generation- scientific knowledge wasn't exactly rife at the time- at to that a bit pf racism, and you get exactly where they are coming from.

The neighbouring Touaregs have a nomadic culture. Whilst it is true that other Sahelians like the Hausa, Songhai, Wolof, etc. are tradtionally farmers, fishermen and traders, what I believe OmarBah is trying to say that our music, our language, our clothing, I would even go so far as to say our Pulaaku are all West African.

Fulaman198:


[b]The neighbouring Touaregs have a nomadic culture. [/b]Whilst it is true that other Sahelians like the Hausa, Songhai, Wolof, etc. are tradtionally farmers, fishermen and traders, what I believe OmarBah is trying to say that our music, our language, our clothing, I would even go so far as to say our Pulaaku are all West African.

Eactly what I a trying to say.
Those West African Tuaregs and us Fulanis are West African, but our nomadic culture does not originate here in WA.
I agree with the rest of what you say our Language, Music, Food etc are all west African. Even the Tuaregs with a clear North African affinity do not dress like other North Aficans. Culture is influenced by environment.

Bororojo:


Eactly what I a trying to say.
Those West African Tuaregs and us Fulanis are West African, but our culture does not originate here in WA

According to that Discovery Channel Documentary I linked here before, we originated in North West Africa, that is when the Sahara was still a lush Savannah where cattle could be herded. But that was millenia ago long before the Sahara as we know it as it is today went through desertification.

The Tuaregs are still in the Sahara and they also originate in North-West Africa, bro.
maybe we should look more into their culture and draw comparisons?

Bororojo:
The Tuaregs are still in the Sahara and they also originate in North-West Africa, bro.
maybe we should look more into their culture and draw comparisons?

There are lots of similarities. The only major difference is language (their language is an actual Berber language whilst ours is a West Atlantic Senegambian language very similar to Serer and Wolof) and the fact that they typically own more gelobe than we do. Other than that, Often our Wodaabe Fulani brothers often come in contact with the Tuaregs in Niger, Chad and even in Nigeria.

........................

Fulbe rewbe

Fulaman198:


The neighbouring Touaregs have a nomadic culture. Whilst it is true that other Sahelians like the Hausa, Songhai, Wolof, etc. are tradtionally farmers, fishermen and traders, what I believe OmarBah is trying to say that our music, our language, our clothing, I would even go so far as to say our Pulaaku are all West African.

yea that's what I meant. Our language, clothing and even the matriarch tradition is typically found in West African cultures. But it looks like we might have some similarities with Tuaregs. Fulanis tend to be suspicious people which is the case for other west African groups, but I bet the Tuaregs are. We also have a strong culture that tends to reject foreign influence or at least limit to the bare minimum. Even Fulani kids born and raised in the US, without ever stepping foot on the continent know how to speak the language and they go the Quran school regularly.

Omarbah:

yea that's what I meant. Our language, clothing and even the matriarch tradition is typically found in West African cultures. But it looks like we might have some similarities with Tuaregs. Fulanis tend to be suspicious people which is the case for other west African groups, but I bet the Tuaregs are. We also have a strong culture that tends to reject foreign influence or at least limit to the bare minimum. Even Fulani kids born and raised in the US, without ever stepping foot on the continent know how to speak the language and they go the Quran school regularly.

I absolutely agree with everything here and I'm not surprised that Fulani children born abroad whether it be England, France, or the United States are still able to speak Pulaar/Fulfulde quite well. I assume that you live in the United States now?

Fulaman198:

I absolutely agree with everything here and I'm not surprised that Fulani children born abroad whether it be England, France, or the United States are still able to speak Pulaar/Fulfulde quite well. I assume that you live in the United States now?

Yes any state where I can meet Naija fulbe? I would be happy to meet them. I like meeting Africans in general, every time I go to a new place for a while I look for an African association regardless of the country.
I have met many igbos and Yorubas but not Hausas or Fulbe. At my Mosque I've HAusas but from GHana.

Omarbah:

Yes any state where I can meet Naija fulbe? I would be happy to meet them. I like meeting Africans in general, every time I go to a new place for a while I look for an African association regardless of the country.
I have met many igbos and Yorubas but not Hausas or Fulbe. At my Mosque I've HAusas but from GHana.

I assume you live in New York right? Most Nigerian Fulani when they go abroad they typically move to Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Egypt or England. I'm not saying there are no Fulani Nigerian Families in America, I'm sure there are few but no where near as many as say Senegalese or Guinean Fulani.

Fulaman198:


I assume you live in New York right? Most Nigerian Fulani when they go abroad they typically move to Saudi Arabia, Dubai, Egypt or England. I'm not saying there are no Fulani Nigerian Families in America, I'm sure there are few but no where near as many as say Senegalese or Guinean Fulani.

Oh I see, no wonder they have been less influenced by western culture.

Omarbah:

yea that's what I meant. Our language, clothing and even the matriarch tradition is typically found in West African cultures. But it looks like we might have some similarities with Tuaregs. Fulanis tend to be suspicious people which is the case for other west African groups, but I bet the Tuaregs are. We also have a strong culture that tends to reject foreign influence or at least limit to the bare minimum. Even Fulani kids born and raised in the US, without ever stepping foot on the continent know how to speak the language and they go the Quran school regularly.

What matriarch tradition is that?

Bororojo:


What matriarch tradition is that?

such as the one currently practiced by the Wodaabe where the girl picks her husband instead of the other way around. Or you receive your heritage from your mother instead of your father.

Omarbah:

such as the one currently practiced by the Wodaabe where the girl picks her husband instead of the other way around. Or you receive your heritage from your mother instead of your father.

Wodaabe society is an exception within the Fulani cultural sphere, and even though the women get to "choose" husbands, the society is still pretty male dominated.
As for the other part of your statement, I don;t really understand. Is the heritage of a Fulani child determined along the maternal line in Fouta Djallon?

Bororojo:


Wodaabe society is an exception within the Fulani cultural sphere, and even though the women get to "choose" husbands, the society is still pretty male dominated.
As for the other part of your statement, I don;t really understand. Is the heritage of a Fulani child determined along the maternal line in Fouta Djallon?

No it's not the case but according to what Cheick Anta Diop it used to be the case in the pre Islamic era when we had our true identity. But Islam changed it.
Woad able is th closest society we have to a pre Islamic Fulbe culture.

Omarbah:

No it's not the case but according to what Cheick Anta Diop it used to be the case in the pre Islamic era when we had our true identity. But Islam changed it.
Woad able is th closest society we have to a pre Islamic Fulbe culture.

to be honest, no one is Fully sure what our society was like back then, even Anta Joop has a lot of speculation in his works, all his hypothesis about Fulani and Egypt are all "lolable"- At least Hampate Ba had some real first and second hand knowledge of us. I find it hard to believe our society was matriarchal pre-islam.
And if this is a link to the rest of WA , then what other society around the Western Sahel practice matriarchy ?

Bororojo:


to be honest, no one is Fully sure what our society was like back then, even Anta Joop has a lot of speculation in his works, all his hypothesis about Fulani and Egypt are all "lolable"- At least Hampate Ba had some real first and second hand knowledge of us. I find it hard to believe our society was matriarchal pre-islam.
And if this is a link to the rest of WA , then what other society around the Western Sahel practice matriarchy ?

Currently all the west African groups that I know of are patriarchial. But going back in history, the Baoule of Cote d'IVoire trace their ancestry to the Queen Pokou who had to sacrifice her child for her people. There is also the importance of Queen mothers in Asante society, very few other societies give such a role to women. I have also learned that sometimes Igbos trace their lineage through their mother.

Anta Diop's research does need to be continued, not everything is clear. But he has been able to demonstrate similarities between west African societies and those of ancient Egypt.
Ampathe Bah knew a great deal about our culture but our origin still remains in question.

Omarbah:

Currently all the west African groups that I know of are patriarchial. But going back in history, the Baoule of Cote d'IVoire trace their ancestry to the Queen Pokou who had to sacrifice her child for her people. There is also the importance of Queen mothers in Asante society, very few other societies give such a role to women. I have also learned that sometimes Igbos trace their lineage through their mother.

Possibly. And as a matter of fact, I think many African societies actually have one or few female heroines, but does this mean they had female dominated/determined societies? I don't really know, but I would say most probably not.
And again, these are all coastal West Africans (Baule, Ashanti, Igbo etc), which although are west African- have only very little to do with us (culturally) - They don't even wear boubous.
we share lot more (culturally) with the Songhais, Northern Mandes, Wolofs, Hausas, Tuaregs, Sarakoles Etc

Bororojo:


Possibly. And as a matter of fact, I think many African societies actually have one or few female heroines, but does this mean they had female dominated/determined societies? I don't really know, but I would say most probably not.
And again, these are all coastal West Africans (Baule, Ashanti, Igbo etc), which although are west African- have only very little to do with us (culturally) - They don't even wear boubous.
[b]we share lot more (culturally) with the Songhais, Northern Mandes, Wolofs, Hausas, Tuaregs, Sarakoles [/b]Etc

And most of the groups you listed are majority Muslims like us.

Omarbah:

And most of the groups you listed are majority Muslims like us.

OmarBah, I have another question for you.
Is there Initial consonant mutation in Fouta Djallon Pular?

Bororojo:


OmarBah, I have another question for you.
Is there Initial consonant mutation in Fouta Djallon Pular?

yes there is. For example , a man is called gorko but in plural it is "worbe".
A free man is dimo and in plural "rimbe".

Omarbah:

What do you mean? "Dumb it down a little" lol

I read somewhere that one of the peculiarities of FJ pulaar, unlike all the other dialects, is that there are no consonant mutations of most words in their plural forms.

i.e blacksmith in Fulfulde

Singular === Plural
Baylowo === Waylube

From what we exchanged last time on pronouns I take it you have it in Adamawa too.

Bororojo:


I read somewhere that one of the peculiarities of FJ pulaar, unlike all the other dialects, is that there are no consonant mutations of most words in their plural forms.

i.e blacksmith in Fulfulde

Singular === Plural
Baylowo === Waylube

It's correct. There is also
Debbo and rewbe for women