honeric01:

Neither did i say scriptures said he told her mother to wait outside, what any sensible person can deduct from this passage should be that His earthly mother was not even one of his followers.





My point is that Mary was not given any "post" by Jesus, given any preferential treatment, nor was she even acknowledged as her mother because a God can't have a mother. he didn't disrespect her but openly and in many cases rebuked her when she wanted to play the "mother" card on him.

Lastly, pointing to his disciples as his mother and brothers with his earthly mom and brothers excluded shows that they were mostly not connected to him spiritually nor even connected to his vision.

He was preaching inside with his disciples and his half-brothers and mother were outside? the message is very clear.

Infact, they even wanted him to stop preaching and come see them outside, another message, can you see these messages?

Lastly, Jesus never called Mary his mother, incase i am wrong, kindly show me in the scriptures where he did.

so the apostles were mistaken when they wrote that mary is the mother of Jesus?
Is the holy spirit a liar?

Is Jesus now a sinner because you claim he "rebuked" his mother when scriptures say "honour your father and your mother".

It seems you are reading your bible upside down.

Ubenedictus: so the apostles were mistaken when they wrote that mary is the mother of Jesus?
Is the holy spirit a liar?

Is Jesus now a sinner because you claim he "rebuked" his mother when scriptures say "honour your father and your mother".

It seems you are reading your bible upside down.

Stop running away from the truth and quit asking irrelevant questions

Everyone knew Mary as the earthly mother of Jesus, that's all about her.

Jesus made us know she was just that and nothing more. she was not even his disciples and held no known position in his ministry.

You that read your bible sideways, tell us what Jesus said about Mary.

honeric01:

Stop running away from the truth and quit asking irrelevant questions

Everyone knew Mary of the earthly mother of Jesus, that's all about her.

Jesus made us know she was just that and nothing more. she was not even his disciples and held no known position in his ministry.

You that read your bible sideways, tell us what Jesus said about Mary.

How about the deeper point of requiring Mary's 'Yes' for Jesus to come into the world unlike Eve's 'Yes' to the serpent.i know this might seem trivial to you. How about Mary's role at Our Lord's 1st miracle?how about the parallel of the old ark of the covenant which carried God's word and the new which carried God's word made flesh?these things seem trivial to protestants who are centuries removed from the debates and formation of the Christian faith.

btoks: How about the deeper point of requiring Mary's 'Yes' for Jesus to come into the world unlike Eve's 'Yes' to the serpent.i know this might seem trivial to you. How about Mary's role at Our Lord's 1st miracle?how about the parallel of the old ark of the covenant which carried God's word and the new which carried God's word made flesh?these things seem trivial to protestants who are centuries removed from the debates and formation of the Christian faith.

Bro, does all these change the fact that Mary played no 'superior part' in the ministry of Jesus Christ on earth? was she the only virgin in Israel then? infact if anything, she should be the one happy that she was used because God can use anything just like he used BAllam' s donkey to minister to him, stingy Raven to feed Elijah, The wicked judge (king) to answer the prayers of the windowed woman.

Like I said, Jesus did not give any special reference to Mary while on earth nor did the apostles do.

Mary was a vessel used just like any other vessels God uses.

Mary played her part, John the Baptist played her part, same with Judah Iscariot.

honeric01:

Who were the people that killed and persecuted the early Christians?

Starting from the time of the apostles/disciples?

The roman empire, nero for instance. Constantine put a stop to that and made Christianity the official religion for political and religious reasons.

honeric01:

How come they now claim to be the "early Christians"?

Good question.

btoks:

In addition to the responses from others, Please take a look at the following link for the DIDACHE (http://www.earlychristianwritings.com/text/didache-roberts.html) – a document accepted as being from the first century and contains the rudiments of the apostles teaching in practice. You’ll see notes about baptism, confession, Eucharist, bishops etc. I note that some of your assertions are certainly from extra biblical source, thus kills the whole concept of Sola Scriptura. I don’t think the maintenance of buildings, technology etc and sharing God's Word are not mutually exclusive events and the only way Christianity has survived is because of structure as Jesus established. Structured organisation is required for guidance - ensuring the right things are done and also required for influence & power; the only way Christianity has survived. Also, I’m sure you know that the New Testament potion of the bible was still being written and there were disputes as to which ones to read. Thus they needed the Guidance of the Church (Bishops etc).

What gives you the impression that this is referring to the RCC?

PastorKun:

The fact the a lot of RCC doctrines differ so much from the teachings handed down to us by Jesus and the Apostles is another evidence that the RCC cannot be the same as the early church established on sound apostolic doctrines.

Good point.

honeric01:

Yes they did, by telling her to wait outside while Jesus was preaching to the multitude.

Remember the phrase "Who' s my mother, brethren "?

Remember what brought about that phrase?

Matthew 12:46 While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold,
His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to
Him. 47 And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your
brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You." 48 But He
answered the one who was telling Him and said, "Who is My mother
and who are My brothers?" 49 And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, "Behold, My mother and My brothers! 50 "For
whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother."..

Good point.

btoks:

Definately not derailing.This is a cop-out from you, very weak . I've been to that link and no answers just further untruths. Please answer the question I posed, where is the church that Ireanaeus and Cyprian of Carthage were referring to?

How many times will I say that the universal Church is not the same as the Roman Catholic church? The difference is clear.

OLAADEGBU:

The roman empire, nero for instance. Constantine put a stop to that and made Christianity the official religion for political and religious reasons.

Then came the "Crusader" Era where people were killed in the name of "Christianity" just to claim their lands and properties. (Dominance)

OLAADEGBU:

How many times will I say that the universal Church is not the same as the Roman Catholic church? The difference is clear.

Bros you did not answer is kweshion.Which church was ireneaus and cyprian reffering to?

chukwudi44:

Bros you did not answer is kweshion.Which church was ireneaus and cyprian reffering to?

Certainly not the RCC.

honeric01:

Then came the "Crusader" Era where people were killed in the name of "Christianity" just to claim their lands and properties. (Dominance)

And also created the other religion so as to get rid of Jews and Christians that refused to bow to the vatican.

OLAADEGBU:

Certainly not the RCC.

Bros quit embarrassing yourself on this forumn.If you know you have no knowlege of the subject matter,why bother opening threads to comment on it.You have absolutely no knowlege about church histiory!! All you do is just to do copy and paste from jack chick's website and when you are confronted with any question ,you just blank out

OLAADEGBU:

And also created the other religion so as to get rid of Jews and Christians that refused to bow to the vatican.

God pass them

chukwudi44:

Bros quit embarrassing yourself on this forumn.If you know you have no knowlege of the subject matter,why bother opening threads to comment on it.You have absolutely no knowlege about church histiory!! All you do is just to do copy and paste from jack chick's website and when you are confronted with any question ,you just blank out

Here is a suggested link about church history, and it is not from Jack Chick your worst nightmare:

http://www.gotquestions.org/history-Christianity.html

honeric01:

God pass them

True. One with God is a majority.

OLAADEGBU:

What gives you the impression that this is referring to the RCC?

It would be good if you could tell us what it was referring to. Did you actually read the document? I'll very much like to know what your gripe is with the CC.

OLAADEGBU:

How many times will I say that the universal Church is not the same as the Roman Catholic church? The difference is clear.

It's amazing how you mention the universal church!!! - where is this church and how does one get into it? So this is the Church Ireanaeus and Cyprian of Carthage were referring to - wow!!

OLAADEGBU:

Here is a suggested link about church history, and it is not from Jack Chick your worst nightmare:

http://www.gotquestions.org/history-Christianity.html

I hope you know the church fathers actually wrote down aacounts of events that transpired during their times as well as their beleifs and practices? I clicked on your link and did not see them quoting any church father!!! I want first and account of the church denouncing the views of the catholic catholic and not any summary of false stories culled from God know were!!!

QUOTE these early christians IN THEIR OWN WORDS and not in yours!!! Clement of rome was not merely a church father but was also the fourthh pope of the catholic church.Ireneaus of lyons was also the catholic bishop of lyons as well as the most astute defender of the catholic faith in the second century!! These men alongside other church fathers wrote books!! Stop reading nonsense and google out the writings of the church fathers

chukwudi44:

I hope you know the church fathers actually wrote down aacounts of events that transpired during their times as well as their beleifs and practices? I clicked on your link and did not see them quoting any church father!!! I want first and account of the church denouncing the views of the catholic catholic and not any summary of false stories culled from God know were!!!

QUOTE these early christians IN THEIR OWN WORDS and not in yours!!! Clement of rome was not merely a church father but was also the fourthh pope of the catholic church.Ireneaus of lyons was also the catholic bishop of lyons as well as the most astute defender of the catholic faith in the second century!! These men alongside other church fathers wrote books!! Stop reading nonsense and google out the writings of the church fathers

It appears to me that you have a phobia of opening suggested links. I have now taken you out of your misery by opening a thread about the early church fathers in the thread below. Relax and go there, it wouldn't cost you anything to learn anything new.

https://www.nairaland.com/1881660/early-church-fathers

honeric01:

Yes they did, by telling her to wait outside while Jesus was preaching to the multitude.

Remember the phrase "Who' s my mother, brethren "?

Remember what brought about that phrase?

Matthew 12:46 While He was still speaking to the multitudes, behold, His mother and brothers were standing outside, seeking to speak to
Him.
47 And someone said to Him, "Behold, Your mother and Your brothers are standing outside seeking to speak to You."
48 But He answered the one who was telling Him and said, "Who is My mother and who are My brothers?"
49 And stretching out His hand toward His disciples, He said, "Behold, My mother and My brothers!
50 "For whoever does the will of My Father who is in heaven, he is My brother and sister and mother."..

This penterascal says the apostles disrespected the mother of their master - God.

Hatred for Catholicism makes them lose their minds.

Ubenedictus:

oh dear!

The honor of mary ofcourse started in 33AD, did you think that the apostles disrepected the mother of Christ?

Long before 33AD actually.

Have you forgotten when the angel said "Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with you," and when Elizabeth cried out under the inspiration of the Holy Spirit:

41 Now it happened that as soon as Elizabeth heard Mary's greeting, the child leapt in her womb and Elizabeth was filled with the Holy Spirit.

42 She gave a loud cry and said, 'Of all women you are the most blessed, and blessed is the fruit of your womb.

43 Why should I be honoured with a visit from the mother of my Lord?

44 Look, the moment your greeting reached my ears, the child in my womb leapt for joy.

45 Yes, blessed is she who believed that the promise made her by the Lord would be fulfilled.'

God himself honoured Mary. Who are we not to?

honeric01:

Stop running away from the truth and quit asking irrelevant questions

Everyone knew Mary as the earthly mother of Jesus, that's all about her.

Jesus made us know she was just that and nothing more. she was not even his disciples and held no known position in his ministry.

You that read your bible sideways, tell us what Jesus said about Mary.

He says Mary wasn't Jesus' disciple!

Hatred has eaten up this one's brain o!

OLAADEGBU:

How many times will I say that the universal Church is not the same as the Roman Catholic church? The difference is clear.

O! Where is this "universal church," then?

It dissappeared?

OLAADEGBU:

Certainly not the RCC.

They must have been referring to Christ Embassy then...olodo.

italo:

They must have been referring to Christ Embassy then...olodo.

The least you should do is to attempt debunking the OP logically instead of all this emotional outbursts and name calling that change nothing.

OLAADEGBU:
The least you should do is to attempt debunking the OP logically instead of all this emotional outbursts and name calling that change nothing.

Logically...!

The early Church was the Catholic Church. Simple. That's why you're hell-bent on avoiding and even discrediting the writings of the early Church Fathers Chukwudi44 already gave you.

If you say I'm lying...show us the Church of St. Ignatius and co.

Did it dissappear.?

OLAADEGBU:

It appears to me that you have a phobia of opening suggested links. I have now taken you out of your misery by opening a thread about the early church fathers in the thread below. Relax and go there, it wouldn't cost you anything to learn anything new.

https://www.nairaland.com/1881660/early-church-fathers

if i did not read the link ,how would i have known ,there was nothing there?

These anticatholic penterascals are so desperate.

So totally incapable of answering simple questions to elucidate their position.

Since the catholic church didn't exist in the 1st century then where is the church that existed then? Where is the church of the early church fathers? What these anticatholics are saying really is that christianity has finished. It has died out.

I also can't help noticing a lot of arrogance and ITK-ism.

Please where is the universal church today. If I want to write a letter to them, the way that St. Paul wrote a letter to the Romans, where would I address the letter to?

This question is soooo simple that even a child that knew what he was talking about ought to be able to answer it.

italo:

He says Mary wasn't Jesus' disciple!

Hatred has eaten up this one's brain o!

Why not prove me wrong with scriptures instead of this tactless comment?