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Nairaland Forum / Nairaland / General / Religion / God Is Not The Cause Of Existence (1644 Views)
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God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by finofaya: 4:12pm On Aug 19, 2014 |
For those who wonder why any thing exists at all, instead of nothing, and attribute the existence of anything at all to some sort of God or the other, I present to you a quick proof from the book Why Does The World Exist by Jim Holt which shows that there could not have been nothing, and that the question "why something rather than nothing" is therefore pointless and that God is not necessary, since there was no nothing for him to annihilate and bring forth existence. It reads; "Suppose there were nothing. Then there would be no laws; for laws, after all, are something. If there were no laws, then everything would be permitted. If everything were permitted, then nothing would be forbidden. So if there were nothing, nothing would be forbidden. Thus nothing is self-forbidding. Therefore, there must be something. QED." Watertight. ![]() |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by Toyolad(m): 9:12pm On Aug 19, 2014 |
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Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by finofaya: 11:02pm On Aug 19, 2014 |
Toyolad: Stumped? I understand your confusion. |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by Toyolad(m): 11:08pm On Aug 19, 2014 |
finofaya:what do you mean by 'suppose there were nothing'?...nd what laws do you mean? Pls pardon my dumbness,I jst wanna see things from your perspective, |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by lastmessenger: 11:09pm On Aug 19, 2014 |
Stupidity stupidity stupidity 1 Like |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by finofaya: 11:39pm On Aug 19, 2014 |
Toyolad: what do you mean by 'suppose there were nothing'?...nd what laws do you mean? Lol. What dumbness? "Suppose there were nothing" means you should assume that nothing exists. The same kind of nothingness that you think of when you wonder how you can get something out of nothing. Laws refers to the laws of physics. If you think about it, it grows on you. |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by finofaya: 11:40pm On Aug 19, 2014 |
lastmessenger: Stupidity stupidity stupidity What's the insult for? |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by lastmessenger: 6:29am On Aug 20, 2014 |
finofaya:Ask Ogun |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by Nobody: 7:14am On Aug 20, 2014 |
finofaya: For those who wonder why any thing exists at all, instead of nothing, and attribute the existence of anything at all to some sort of God or the other, I present to you a quick proof from the book Why Does The World Exist by Jim Holt which shows that there could not have been nothing, and that the question "why something rather than nothing" is therefore pointless and that God is not necessary, since there was no nothing for him to annihilate and bring forth existence. It reads;This argument just states the obvious. There was never 'nothing'. Something had to be self-existent. As DeepSight would say, some call it the Universe, others call it God. |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by Elijah78: 7:58am On Aug 20, 2014 |
No body can tell for sure. |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by Toyolad(m): 7:58am On Aug 20, 2014 |
finofaya: For those who wonder why any thing exists at all, instead of nothing, and attribute the existence of anything at all to some sort of God or the other, I present to you a quick proof from the book Why Does The World Exist by Jim Holt which shows that there could not have been nothing, and that the question "why something rather than nothing" is therefore pointless and that God is not necessary, since there was no nothing for him to annihilate and bring forth existence. It reads;Never was there Nothing,cos being cannot come from non-being!..so as sir muskeeto had said earlier,you're just dancing round the obvious fact. So tell us how the many things(in this universe) came out of this something that was. Don't tell me you believe we and everything just came to be at ones. |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by finofaya: 8:07am On Aug 20, 2014 |
lastmessenger: Na Ogun send you abi? Mindless beast. |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by stinggy(m): 8:15am On Aug 20, 2014 |
what if we wake up one day and discover religions are sham ![]() Just ways of cowing us up and making us submissive to authorities ![]() |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by finofaya: 8:31am On Aug 20, 2014 |
musKeeto: Does it? Anyway, the crux of the argument is that nothing is self-forbidding. No magic or divinity or anything is required to cause anything to exist. Just this mindless, inanimate proposition. You could call it God, by why would you? There might be a God after all (as in a sentient one like Allah), but he simply isn't the cause of existence. 1 Like |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by Nobody: 8:32am On Aug 20, 2014 |
finofaya:I'm atheist. |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by finofaya: 8:50am On Aug 20, 2014 |
Toyolad: Never was there Nothing,cos being cannot come from non-being!..so as sir muskeeto had said earlier,you're just dancing round the obvious fact. What obvious fact? You know by extension, God's being has to come from another being, abi? I don't know how the many things in the universe came to be. I don't know if it's God, tho he seems an unlikely candidate. Imagine a God that is self existent, and conscious, and personal, and intelligent, and emotional, and all powerful and so much more. Isn't it a little too lucky for such a person that he exists? That he just sprang from nothingness with all these qualities in place? |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by Nobody: 9:16am On Aug 20, 2014 |
finofaya:You fail to grasp the import of your own argument. |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by finofaya: 9:18am On Aug 20, 2014 |
musKeeto: I know. But still... |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by finofaya: 9:28am On Aug 20, 2014 |
musKeeto: Lol okay. Even where things are eternal, there is still debate over why and how they exist. And whether this God is eternal or not, it is still too fortunate that he has always had all those attributes. |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by Toyolad(m): 9:37am On Aug 20, 2014 |
finofaya:@capslocked,that LIKELY CANDIDATE that seems to have done the job is the GOD we're referring to. Nt a person though(not all beings are persons,agree?)Of course,He is lucky if that's what you wanna know.and He has and still using the qualities He got frm luck to control the universe. |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by plaetton: 2:56pm On Aug 20, 2014 |
musKeeto: I call it the all pervading electromagnetic energy. |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by plaetton: 3:01pm On Aug 20, 2014 |
finofaya: Exactly the point I always make, that consciousness, just like everything else, evolved in the universe, when the frequency of electromagnetic energy reached a mathematical threshold. Thus, a consciousness did not beget existence, but aggregated from the sum of energy interactions within the universe. If there is a god, a universal consciousness, then it too is the product of an evolving universe. |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by RockMaxi: 3:05pm On Aug 20, 2014 |
"By their fruits you shall know them". Atheist always contradict their inner mind, they take solace in searching for the truth by reading books that confuses them the more. 2 Likes |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by finofaya: 4:40pm On Aug 20, 2014 |
Toyolad: @capslocked,that LIKELY CANDIDATE that seems to have done the job is the GOD we're referring to. I said unlikely candidate. Which one is likely again? Bible God is a person. Not all Gods have personhood. If luck has a role in God's existence, wouldn't you want to re examine how much reverence you give to him? |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by finofaya: 5:09pm On Aug 20, 2014 |
plaetton: Precisely. Given what we know of consciousness, it is rather magnanimous to say that it - and not just the human mind but the greatest mind of all - appeared in a flash. I can hardly see how it could have been there from the outset. 1 Like |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by finofaya: 5:25pm On Aug 20, 2014 |
[quote author=RockMaxi][/quote] Sincerely, I read the bible and I was confused. I have also taken a leap of faith and asked any God that exists to show himself to me. An unequivocal yes or no via the same channel through which he listens to my thoughts would have been sufficient. No signal. Any God that exists is not a personal God. |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by Toyolad(m): 5:38pm On Aug 20, 2014 |
finofaya:you don't get it do you? If there's an UNLIKELY CANDIDATE then there must be a LIKELY CANDIDATE. Bible God is a spirit, a supreme being and not a (physical) person. If 'by luck' a president gets elected (perhaps he does and perhaps he does not deserve it) does that mean that he wouldn't be able to exercise his power? Does that mean he would have no say in his country? Does that mean that his people wouldn't give him reverence? What you call LUCK is what I call his DIVINITY and his MYSTERY,some things will just remain mysteries to man no matter how much you search for His source of Power and Qualities, I'm not saying you shld give up searching but just get it...that the more you look;the less you see,the more knowledge you seek about how He got his qualities and how He came to be;the more Confused you get.(Which automatically leads you to conclude that He doesn't exist) and IF you're confused on what to believe in,you try to criticize His actions. #All is Well 1 Like |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by plaetton: 6:09pm On Aug 20, 2014 |
Toyolad: you don't get it do you? Meaningless. ![]() If god is a mystery, then what makes you believe for sure that he exists? If the mystery of god is a source of confusion, then does anyone bother to not only believe, but to worship, and even kill for the sake of a mystery? If god is a mystery, then what is the need and purpose of religion? |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by Toyolad(m): 7:11pm On Aug 20, 2014 |
plaetton:Read the post again before tagging it 'meaningless'..I never said the existence of God is mystery. The mystery here is:trying to search for the source of His powers!,hw He came into existence and not His existence. The op and many peepz have tried to reason there way out of this mystery but have failed,therefore concluding that He got His powers and qualities that makes Him the most supreme being through LUCK(which is to me just a way to find an answer to their curiosity). Abeg read wella before quoting me joor (lol). |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by lastmessenger: 9:22pm On Aug 20, 2014 |
finofaya:Only a beast post stupid thread on nairaland. |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by finofaya: 11:18pm On Aug 20, 2014 |
Toyolad: you don't get it do you? Yeah. True. But you know what my likely candidate is already. Bible God may be incorporeal, but he definitely has personhood. You don't need a body for that. I didn't say you would cease to revere him. I just wanted to know if your reverence for him will remain the same after you find out that he is merely lucky, and not deserving. It would be nice to not ask questions, but how much control does anyone have over their mind? I really don't understand why God shouldn't make sense. |
Re: God Is Not The Cause Of Existence by finofaya: 11:29pm On Aug 20, 2014 |
lastmessenger: Abeg jor. I know you don't like it, but that is not the yard stick we use to decide what is silly. |
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