ihedinobi2: After reading a friend's latest entries in her diary, I thought about writing my "closing" arguments on friendzoning and "nice guys finish last". I decided that it isn't worth my energy right now. But I'll say the following and leave it at that:

Friendzoning is an act of selfishness. This is because love is beautiful when you're the recipient. When someone loves you, they make you a very high priority in their lives. You benefit a lot from that. They're always there for you. You can count on that. If you have any kind of need, they will be right there to stretch themselves and provide it. But here's where it gets tough: love is vastly expensive to the lover. The lover spends a very difficult kind of currency - themselves. Where do you replenish such expenses? Only from other people who love you in the same degree.

Now, someone is spending themselves on you and you enjoy that. But you would rather not spend yourself on them for whatever reason is applicable to you. What do you do? Call Love Friendship and invent arguments for why they should keep up the expense even when it kills them to do so. That is what makes the Friendzone issue difficult to leave alone. Those who have been drained like that tend to be cynical about love and the value or worth of fellow human beings.

About the "nice guys finish last" matter, I have only this to say: like attracts like. If a woman is attracted to men who do not respect or value womanhood, it says a lot about her not just about men who do respect womanhood. If a woman wants tough guys who are all about swag and money and bachelor pads, whatever she says about them being real and all that, it means only that she is not very interested in motherhood and stability. You want to live the life of the club and spotlights, you don't belong in the home, the kitchen and the bedroom and nursery. It's that simple.

When a man or woman is ready to take on life, they don't look for fast-moving stuff, they look for deep roots. And if they have spent their youth running around and jumping on every train headed south, well they have the consequence that they will not be very deserving of any kind of love, to say nothing of a good man's or woman's love. Forgiveness exists to ensure that they can be rescued but it is not something they have any right to. So if you're a nice guy and the flashy girls are giving you the cold shoulder, move on. Don't complain. Simply build yourself a life you can be proud of and you will have your own pick of women. Don't be bitter about other people's choices even if they hurt you. Just free them and thus free yourself to breathe, to live, to grow and become everything you can be.



[b]Addendum: I realize that there is a conflict about the definition of "nice guys". I have only this to say about it: there are dull guys, there are players and there are decent men. Dull guys are boys who have not acquired the, er, "balls" to take on life. Players are the typical bad boys. Decent men are the "nice guys" in question here. Decent men make homes. They tend to keep long relationships so whenever they're in the market after their first time, they aren't nearly always the most polished. They place their women very high on their priority list because they understand gow critical the role of womanhood is to a man. You don't generally find them in clubs, not because they don't like fun but because they have moral boundaries. You won't meet them at strip joints unless they're on a break from decency. They aren't regulars at pick-up bars and restaurants because some things tend to be overdone. A decent guy is simply a man with boundaries. He does not live on a constant high. He is a centered person and does not chase thrills as a matter of course. That's the nice guy here[/b]. If you have any other definition, it doesn't apply to my arguments.

There, have a nice thought or two now.

Sophyrocks:

I completely agree with you on the bolded. As for guys who complain about been friendzoned, Simply get out of that zone and move on with your life. If you open up your feelings and let a lady know how you feel about her on time then make the decision to move on if her answer is negative, You won't be friendzoned!! Tell yourself the truth and move on. LOTS OF LADIES OUT THERE TO CHOOSE FROM!

Although most nice guys are friendzoned but its pure fallacy to believe that all friendzoned guys are Nice guys. Anybody can be friendzoned.

freshdude2: What's a 'friendzone'?

ihedinobi2:
You're very wise if you agree with me.

I don't think the complaints should be dismissed like that. There's a reason this issue is so thorny and people keep talking about it even after it's been talked to death. I personally concur that if you offer someone your love and they are not into it, you should take a hike. In fact, while people can change and their feelings can change, I don't think that it does anybody any real good to stick around loving someone who does not love you back right then. You should take yourself elsewhere and reprioritize. Or else love will soon become despair and then hate.

Despite this, I can attest that those who don't want the "friendzoned" lovers to leave have their own arguments for their position. I have heard this one: we were friends before he/she started feeling anything, why can't we stay friends still? I have heard this one too: feelings can and do change so why doesn't he/she have patience and give it a chance? I have also heard: "guys/girls are selfish, that's why they won't give without demanding something in return. Why can't you just be a friend and not require that I date you too?" Don't these arguments have some appeal to you? They do to me. The reason I focused on what Love does to the lover is to go straight to the crux of the matter and fix the underlying issue which is a poor understanding of what Love is.

Like I said, Love drains the lover to benefit the beloved so it will make demands on the beloved as well. And the beloved will tend to find some scraps to throw out to keep the lover around. It keeps happening. The friendzoned dude/gal tries to move on and the beloved tosses either some guilt or some hope their way and effectively keeps them rooted to the spot. I'm pretty sure that the vast majority don't realize that this is really what they are doing but it is no less wicked because of how it effectively damages people psychologically.

If you cannot handle the cost of being loved (which is that you will have to love back), let the lover go. If the lover does not go despite every effort you make to release them, their staying is not your fault, but to manufacture the kinds of arguments we see on here and guilt-trip people into staying fixated on you is wrong.

About nice guys in the friendzone, I actually had no concern with that. I spoke of nice guys as a different subject altogether. Yes, nice guys do get stuck sometimes in the friendzone especially because they're the committing kind of guys and they have a conscience too. But they are not altogether dumb and they are not afraid of taking chances (that's the difference between them and the dull guys that are always looking for someone else to take responsibility for them [these dull guys are very few indeed, by the way]) so when it comes to the crunch they will head out and take a chance with someone else. It's a big world out there, like you said.

Sophyrocks:

You are very right.

MizMyColi:

And this ^^^ about sums it up for me. In addition to the writ above which quite captures my thoughts on this matter, I'd like to add thus:
Sometime ago, I mentioned on here that I am never cool with this whole "friendzoning" thing.
No straightforward and selfless human being should be either.
I try to define roles in my relationships with people.

As it stands now, e-life apart, there are mature guys I know, who would give anything to hear me say "I love you too"
They are always there for me and
But I try to let them know the state of my heart towards them: "I love You, just not in the way you expect me to"
I do not take advantage of them in any way and even when I receive unsolicited gifts, I show them gratitude and more oft, I'll always look for a way to pay back especially through calls(not 1-3mins type), just to know how they're doing and say stuffs to cheer them up. That way no one feels used.

I have to admit on here, that for a very short period in my life, during school days, I was friendzoned
I know the feeling of loving and giving unreciprocatedly (sic).
I won't subject anyone to that.
No, not knowingly.



Tagged:Pickabeau1

ihedinobi2:

Very commendable indeed. However, the bolded might actually be worsening things for the guys in question. You call a guy and spend considerable time on the phone talking about him and his well-being, the dude is not going to quickly lose the idea that you may actually care for him.

In fact, how we know that a woman is not into us, what tells us to let go is when she does not act like that. A man wants a woman who makes it her business to make his life easy. The way she hangs around him even virtually by phone calls, email chats and all that build expectations and hopes in him. It doesn't tend to mean as much to you women as it does to us because you women naturally seek company. But us men, we're loners generally. We don't open up unless we are ready to be vulnerable and a woman who convinces us that she's safe to trust in the manner you have described is not one that we will easily ignore.

Not saying that I know how the guys are taking it but me I don't do long phone calls and chats with women as a normal thing. And if I know that I should move on, I have to shut the door at least until someone else shows up who makes it easy for me to talk to you without sifting every single syllable I speak

pickabeau1: cool..Its rare to see ladies being FZ'ed.. albeit pretty ones

Cool debate

MizMyColi: Well, true, that.
If he's the pestering kind who just won't understand no matter how I try to make him see, I employ maximum avoidance, to a fault.
I won't even accept any gifting or make him feel comfortable around me.

There are people too, that we meet, who you bond with and at the same time you just know, this one's filial.
I have one in particular who does exactly what you've described below.
He tries to steer clear because he knows it won't happen, yet He loves me deeply.

Now whether he agrees or not, there are those times when we all need someone to show us that they care.
That's what I try to do despite his feelings for me or not.
I think he understands.
I also know when to cut off, like go radio silent.
It all boils down to wisdom being profitable to direct a person's path.

ideology: Do I friendzone my pals, nope.
I just tell them;
don't think of what am Not thinking,
dont meditate too deep on my kind gestures,
don't misinterpret what I say.

If I have anything on my mind, I will say it.

MizMyColi:

Ohhh
Believe me, its a two way thing.
She's pretty, He's handsome.
Girls and Guys be flocking around them.
But there is this one their heart beats for.
This one whom they seem to loose their sense of pride for
Matters only become worsened when its not reciprocated.

That was then.

I've grown better and stronger now.
I learned and I'm still learning.
Its called Emotional Intelligence.

ihedinobi2:
Why don't you just do stuff that can't be misinterpreted? You know, like nothing. Don't be there at all to be misinterpreted.

ihedinobi2:

You know, you remind me of someone just saying that. Let me put it simply: stop showing him you care. He will not give anybody else a chance if you don't. Or else he will simply act in a manner that you may consider rude: break off communication from you entirely.

ideology:

If am not there for my friends, then what kind of friend am I ?

I love human beings so Much, I cant help but lend my shoulder to support in my own way.
Some need counsel, motivation etc.

I care about you is not the same as I wanna marry you. I think its as simple as that

If I wanna marry you, I'll say it.

Personally, I don't like "history" with ladies. If I don't see us working towards marriage no need.

Tomorrow my children will ask me, "Dad, how many ladies did get involved with before you met mum? " then I'll say 20, that is crazy.

The bottom line is I don't do trial and error, I don't live by chance.

MizMyColi: I get yhu.

ihedinobi2:
I apologize if I came off like I was giving you orders. That wasn't my intention

rebella: Nice one ihedinobi2, I especially agree with you on the nice guys finish last. Friendzoning at time can be a bit complex, in my experience, most times the "zoned" put themselves in the zone, they know they already have feelings for the zoner and then decided to start off first and friends, probably to get to know the "zoner" better. Then from there they enter the friendzone, because the "zoner" doesn't see them as anything more than friends. I actually find it annoying when people complain about being friendzoned, nobody is forcing you to stay, take a walk!! if someone doesn't appreciate your love look for someone who will appreciate you, quirks and all.
At times, its not like the Zoner doesn't realise that the zoned is a great person, its just that the zoner can't help but feel nothing, in this case the zoner should let the zoned walk or cut off contact instead of leading them on.

ihedinobi2:
Thanks for your comments. We are in agreement, you and I. Even about friendzoning. I don't advise cloaking one's intentions but if it works for some people, it works for some people. I just don't think people like that are entitled to complain.

About people not being forced to stay. That is part of the issue. Some people are held back from leaving by the ones who friendzoned them. That's what this thread sought to point out and arrest.

ihedinobi2:
That's nice. But it's a kindness to release those who come to depend on you because they love you from your generousity. That way they can move on with life.

rebella:
As long as they haven't been kidnapped and locked in some remote village, they aren't being held back. All they need is just will power to let go, cut off all form of communication for a while and leave !block numbers if needed, but explain first the reason for your actions.

ideology: , lol, if I notice it, I cut communications, I can assist from afar.

ihedinobi2:
You ever been friendzoned, rebella?

rebella:
err yes, when I was interested he wasn't I jejely respected myself and stepped back, then he became seriously interested by then I had lost my interest, so he remained and still remains in the friendzone

rebella:
err yes, when I was interested he wasn't I jejely respected myself and stepped back, then he became seriously interested by then I had lost my interest, so he remained and still remains in the friendzone