Maryam Babangida to OBJ, Ribadu: No condition is permanent
Sunday, November 2, 2008

Out of office, but certainly not out of public view. That, in a nutshell, is the story of Maryam, the elegant wife of former military president, General Ibrahim Badamosi Babangida.




•Maryam Babangida
Photo by: Sun News Publishing


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Believe it or not, the ebony beauty is already 59 years and married for 39.

Seemingly loved and admired by all, the Asaba, Delta State indigene did not find life easy during the regime of Olusegun Obasanjo, regardless that her husband helped him to Aso Rock after a stint in jail.

When agents of Obasanjo’s government were not after her pet project – Better Life for Women – it was her bakery business, in what she described as petty jealousy. Then the anti-corruption czar, EFCC, went for her son Mohammed.

That action, Maryam recalls in this exclusive interview, was a nightmare for the family. In reaction, the former first lady put everything in God’s hand.

And today, all she has to tell Obasanjo and Nuhu Ribadu, the guy who once called the shots at EFCC, is: No condition is permanent.

Let’s look at the June 12 issue. It was another crisis altogether during your time.

June 12 shouldn’t have happened.

So what went wrong?

We were in the Villa and weren’t on the field to see what happened. Those on the field messed up.

But the buck stopped at your husband’s table.

If you are the boss, you take responsibility, good or bad. That’s what my husband did.

Were you really interested in leaving office at that period because some accounts have it that you were urging your husband to stay on?

That was the last thing I would ever do. If there was anybody that was telling him let’s go, I think I was the one. There was no need to stay on. Political manipulations, manoeuvers and all those things were not worth it. We were messed up, so what are we doing with them?

Who are the “them” that messed him up? The military or politicians?

They are there! They are there! You know the military never operated alone. It was a combination of the military and civilians.

The Abiola family is very close to the Babangida family,

They understood everything at the end of the day; they understood everybody’s role.

Do you relate very well now?

Yeah! We do. No bad feelings. They got to understand the truth. They know the truth.

At one time, it was rumoured that because of the strained relationship between the two families, Aisha, your daughter, was prevented from marrying Kola Abiola?

That’s not true. Don’t even bring it in.

But it was a strong rumour then.

I am telling you it wasn’t true. It’s just that people have basket mouth. They talk too much. Cha-cha, cha-cha without even understanding what they are talking about. Do you know there was a time that Wahala man took us to court?

Who?

This Wahala man, Gani. Haba! Haba! (Kunya).

He was trying to make a point on the Dele Giwa issue.

No, it wasn’t that. There was something that happened and he took Better Life to court. We won the case. All the women lawyers came around and said this was their case. We got to court and trounced him. Honestly, the Dele Giwa case, it’s only God’s time to reveal what happened. My husband was never part of it. We were not part of it.

It’s still an unresolved issue.

It’s the Police that should have been able to get the person or people who killed him. We were having our breakfast when the news got to us.

Will it be right to say that the Better Life Programme suffered some setbacks during Chief Obasanjo’s eight years regime?

They were jealous of Better Life. They did not want to be part of it or work with us. There was a time we translated the MDGs into Hausa, Swahili and three other languages. We invited all the agencies that have something to do with MDGs to the office. We implored them to get copies of those books and help propagate the ideas. Nigeria belongs to all of us; why are you afraid of something that is good? Why won’t you be part of something that will add value to the development of the country? Whether the idea is yours or not, provided it is good for the country, you have to support it and use the idea to move the country forward. We went round to distribute the copies of the MDGs booklets. We personally went round, sent others by post and couriers, and you can’t believe it; the response we got was marvelous. But because it was from Mrs. Babangida, everybody would say, don’t do anything with Babangida.

Why is it so?

Unnecessary envy, you know. I am suffering what they said my husband did.

What did he do?

I don’t know for them. They are just scared of Babangida (prolonged laughter).

When your Better Life account was frozen, did you make personal entreaties to the then President Olusegun Obasanjo?

Hmm, Chief Obasanjo is still alive. I think I did. That was the end.

He was not willing to do anything?

No!

What about his wife, the late Stella Obasanjo; She was still alive then?

I didn’t talk to her about it because I didn’t want to generate crisis in their family. You know they are two of a kind.

What did Chief Obasanjo tell you when you complained about your account being frozen?

He simply said, ‘Maryam, is that not public money?’ I said no, no, it is people’s money, which they donated to the Better Life (Programme).

And that was the end? Nothing beyond that?

Yeah, nothing.

What about the arrest of your son Mohammed at that time?

I have said it repeatedly that everybody will answer for his deeds. I told Chief Obasanjo that ‘your son is with Ribadu, so he’s your son, you do anything you feel like with him.’

And what was his reaction?

He said, ‘ah Maryam, I am going to ensure your son must come out. Walahi tahlai I didn’t know.’ I said well, he’s there and feel free to do whatever you like with him.

Did you also speak to other people?

Hmm, I can’t really remember now.

So, Chief Obasanjo eventually got him released?

I don’t know for him.

You don’t seem to like Chief Obasanjo all of a sudden, because your husband and Obasanjo enjoy the best of relationship. In fact, it was a known fact that your husband brought Obasanjo in 1999.

Well, what they did to my son was very unfair, very untrue. And I leave Ribadu. Ribadu will face God on this matter. And he will answer for his mischief. I am not quarreling with anybody. I never spoke to Ribadu on the matter. Even thereafter, my son saw him in the plane, and they greeted; saw him at the Hajj, they greeted. So, we are not mean people. Just leave everything to God. You think you are in a position, you think you can do and undo. When you come out, you will face your creator someday.

What is the relationship now between your family and Obasanjo’s?

Few days ago, he called. It was my line. I answered and we joked.

What did you talk about?

What are you doing with Ibrahim? Where are you? Such talks. He spoke to me and my husband.

Since he left power, your family has not paid him any visit at Ota. Could it be because of the strained relationship?

Have I been to Ota before? Have I been to Ota?

But your husband too has not?

That is a man’s world. It is their Wahala. I have never been to Ota, even when we were in Lagos, so close to Ota. I have never been there, let alone now. What’s my own?

The two families are good friends, aren’t they?

When he invites me to Ota, let us see whether I will go or not.

Now we have another President, Alhaji Umaru Yar’Adua, who is also close to your family. How would you assess his performance so far?

Me ke? eh eh! What I see in governance is that every leader will try his best for the good of the country. That’s what I feel and, according to the situation they find themselves, they will perform, based on circumstances. That’s how I feel. I am not judging anybody. They have just started. Democracy is a learning process. Of course, it will take a long time. Otherwise, I will appeal to Nigerians to be more honest and serious.

What do you think the women can do to get themselves more actively involved in politics?

Women are trying. The amount of money involved in politics is too much for women to bear. What do you want women to do?

Perhaps adopt the Beijing affirmative action.

Agreed! The women are working; they are getting there. It is a gradual process. They are doing well. All they need is for them to be recognized. We have female senators, honourable members, female ministers; they are coming up.

We had a female Speaker who was later consumed by allegations of corruption against her. And you never came out in her defense?

I never did.

Why?

Because I didn’t get the full story. I don’t speak on issues I do not have enough information. She didn’t reach out to me either. Don’t forget that I am a grand mother now. They should come reaching out to me. What am I asking for?

But you have special passion for the women?

At least, she should have reached out to me. I have my style of operation.

And what’s your style

I don’t like interfering unnecessarily. If you bring your case, we see how we can handle it, that’s it. I don’t want to be seen as if I am going to be asking for a favour.

Here is Dr (Mrs.) Maryam Babangida occupying the famed 50-bedroom apartment. Tell Nigerians, how the home looks like?

Hmm! That is an extreme extravagance, and extreme lies. What is one doing with a 50-bedroom apartment, when I have just four children and three grandchildren? Maybe more will come. So what is the 50-bedroom for? Won’t people be realistic and at least be God-fearing, for God’s sake? Haba! They want me to invite them and be opening the rooms? I will not, if that is what they want.

So how many bedrooms?

I have reasonable number of bedrooms for every member of the family. We have up to six. We have stores, my swimming pool; we have kitchen, kitchen store, laundry, etc.

Is that all?

Of course, the living rooms, that’s all!

Not up to 50 rooms?

Sebi you have entered this house. Enter and count. People are just ignorant. And ignorance is a disease. They are suffering that disease. As they get to find out the truth, they will be relieved of that disease.

What is the secret behind your compact family structure? Could it be a function of your husband’s one-man, one-wife and four-child policy of the 1990s?

We were already living together, had our family, before he talked about that. He didn’t say one wife, he said four children.

Of course, one wouldn’t expect more than one wife to give birth to just four children?

No! You can have other wives and still have four children. It was just a health programme and family planning, perhaps, to check population explosion. When he came up with that, I challenged them; why did you people say so? You people are putting me in trouble because the women were complaining.

Was that why you stopped giving birth?

Emi ke? That has nothing to do with my having children.

Was it then a matter of choice?

Maybe that is what God has destined. I should have had more. Thank God I have four. I thank God.

When you got married, your husband said as young couples, you people enjoyed your prime, going to parties and discos. How was the experience?

Yes, it was good; going out, meeting people, dinners etc.

We understand the La Kabana Club in Kaduna was a special attraction. Were you both clubbing so that you could monitor him; so that he doesn’t look the other way?

(Laughter). What’s my own? He was the one taking me. I was not taking myself.

You were a young couple then, right?

Yes, that’s how it should be. Go out together, yes. It was good. It was right. You can’t marry and bother your wife. You go places, you do things. It was good. Now we don’t have time for that; except we attend dinners.

You enjoyed your prime, didn’t you?

Why not? We did!

You are kind of shut-in now. You don’t seem to be an outgoing person any more. What could be responsible for this?

Where do you go to here? Which Nite club again? They will say I saw her here, saw her there; we have passed that age. Except if one travels abroad, we go to dinners to have some taste elsewhere.

Thank God you are 59. At times when we read stories about your health status, it bothers your admirers.

That is the story that they feed on. Who are the people fielding the stories and where are they?

Only recently, one of the soft sell magazines talked about your supposed breast cancer.

Me, breast cancer? God forbid! Sebi you are here talking to me. I don’t have their time.

Where is this story coming from?

Ask the person that wrote it to come and verify. I don’t know where they are carrying the story from. I really don’t know.

It was reported that you traveled overseas as a result of the worsening situation?

If somebody goes to oversea, does that mean it is for check-up or cancer? Is it only Maryam Babangida who travels? Is it only me that falls sick? What is their interest? Who are the people writing? Where did they get their story or information? Ask them, have they been to this house? Let them come, let’s run round my track with them together and see who is stronger.

That’s a big challenge? How do you take such false stories against your family?

I know earlier on that some people must have been paid to say such things about me. Those that are wishing somebody dead or bad, let them know that such bad wishes will return to them. They will be the ones to die now. I know death is for everybody, but they have started fading away one by one.

Do you know them?

Let them continue to carry false stories, it will return to their heads.

Why do you think anyone will wish you dead?

Do I know for them? I don’t know what I have done to them. They think I am too much (Laughter).

In terms of beauty and wealth?

All! They think I am too much for them. Haba! They see me, they say haaa, this woman, you no dey old? Listen, somebody sees you and say haba, haaaa this woman, you no dey old? What do you mean? So, they want to see me looking wretched? What is in your mind? And I keep on asking what the problem is? Why? Why?

How was your upbringing like in the good old days?

Hmm, it was good.

Did you live with your parents?

Yeah, of course.

Perhaps, your marriage was what took you away from them or you earlier stayed with your uncles?

I stayed with my aunty for just two years before she got married. Most of the time, I was with my parents.

How about your childhood friends, are they still very much around?

Yeah, but some of them are dead. They are all scattered, actually. I didn’t keep in touch as such with so many of them, because I mind my business. They are all over the place; but we have lost close contact. We were never in one place; you know the military and the transfer across the country. You hardly can settle in one place. That also affected reaching out to my childhood friends.

Do you still link up with your other family members back home in Delta?

Of course, yes. Why not?

How often?

Not often. We talk on telephone.

Thank God for GSM

Even before that, there were means of communication. They also come around. I am not too familiar with the area now.

You were once accused by some Deltans of influencing the creation of Delta State with the capital in your home town, Asaba.

Good! What is the problem? If I did, that was great.

So you actually did?

Yes, I did, Good! Good!

Was it deliberate?

Na you sabi. Se they said I did, I did. I did. Chikena!

How did you feel when your bakery was closed down by NAFDAC sometime in 2006?

It was very unfair action. It was very awful. There was nothing near the truth on what they accused us of. I never heard of anything like bread enhancer, which they said we were using. I never knew of that. And they just came and banned us. That is one of those things they tried to use against us. I told the late Stella Obasanjo, and she said “what?” And she said no, no. I said well, that’s the situation. We got all kinds of information and accusation.

So why would they close down your bakery?

Because they simply wanted to intimidate us. It was all politics.

But that was an employer of labour?

Eventually, they re-opened it.

Were there formal complaints or were you formally communicated?

No! I got my lawyer and told him, go after them. He went and met Dora Akunyili and Dora thought he was a cheap Northern lawyer. When the man started to speak on the issue, she said waoh! They later sorted the issue out; I did not personally speak to Dora Akunyili. I think I have met Dora once at Caritas University in Enugu.

And the issue didn’t come up?

We didn’t have time to talk. If she had talked, I wouldn’t have, if it was the issue. Few occasions thereafter, she was visiting Minna and they invited me for whatever she was doing.

They invited you?

Thereafter they started inviting me for their programmes.

But you should naturally participate since it was not a personal thing.

If they know that, they should give respect. If there was anything they thought was the problem, they could have discussed that with me. And let me correct it. Your approach to issues matters a lot.

Did they apologize to you later?

The lawyer, according to him, I wasn’t there really when they spoke on few occasions. They realized their mistake.

Was there any formal or verbal apology?

It will be a shame on them to do this kind of public apology; you know. The same thing they did to Mohammed (her son). It was wrong. It wasn’t good. They couldn’t come out to apologize, but they started sending messages.

You were said to have gone through all kinds of intimidation during Chief Olusegun Obasanjo’s regime. Is this true?

During Chief Obasanjo’s regime, yes, a lot.

Was it because of your husband’s presidential aspiration?

Yes, that was it.

Some Nigerians were saying your husband did not want to come back, that you were the one pushing him. How true?

Good God! What am I pushing him for?

They said you wanted to re-enact your first ladyship, the glamour and all that.

And so I should remain there forever because I am God?

But really, are you not interested in coming back?

I am not interested in coming back. For what? Instead, some other people were pushing him. When the people were asking him to contest, you just have to please the people. But I told him I am not cut out for this kind of attitude, because it is democracy, I see some crazy things, it was kind of kara wen chi. You know what that means?

No!

No discipline! Harlotism! No standard! I am not cut out for that kind of stuff.

But that’s not enough reason for you to stay out of politics. Perhaps, your participation could introduce some finesse?

Hmm, No! No!

Why? Or did you think it was not right for him to return to Aso Rock?

(Cuts in). It is not that it was not right. If God has destined he will be, he will go there. I am not one to make him. God makes, not man.

Since out of office, you have retired to Minna. What’s up?

What can I do? This is my husband’s place. And I have to make do with this place because of him.

What kind of business are you engaged in?

School, I run my school

As a teacher or administrator?

I can also claim to be a Professor or teacher there because I am always there. Because you are dealing with human beings, my attention is always there. I am always there.

What about the Girls Science School?

That’s just in my name. I am not the owner. It’s owned by government.

Is your involvement just that of charity?

Yes, some kind of intervention. I do my religious activities, helping out.

We hear you run an Islamic Foundation; is that true?

Yes, I use that for the propagation of Islam

What’s the organization like?

We preach Islam in the villages. When you go there, you will find that some of them do not have religion; they practice the traditional region. We have to preach and bring them to God. Some Christians are there; some Muslims are there too. We have to preach; we don’t force people. We try to explain religion to them and on their own accord, they can embrace it.

Have you now become an evangelist?

Well, thank God. Give them what you can, then employ a teacher to be teaching them, about the religion. Later, we move to the next village.

How do you get feedback?

I go there. We have a group. In the group, we have the Mallams, teachers, they monitor those people. They go round and we keep on expanding.

What time do you have to do all this?

I do that mostly on weekends. I go in the morning and do not get back until late in the evenings. Nigeria is big.

What is the coverage like?

It is here, in Niger State. You can’t take too much. You place emphasis on a particular area and do what you can to help them.

You have been married to your husband for 39 years. Now that you are 59, down memory lane, what do you have to say?

IBB is a strong man, and he is gentle, kind, and very accommodating. We’ve been able to understand each other. We tend to agree and disagree on issues. There are styles of operation. What is important is respect for each other.

Do you engage in shouting matches?

No, no, no. We don’t misbehave. We don’t do that, kai. It’s not in our system. We are two gentle people.

One must be hot, the other hotter; isn’t it?

Nobody is hotter. He’s strong in his own way, and I am strong in my own way. We respect each other’s feelings.

How do you take all the criticisms against your family?

Sometimes I will just run to go and show him, ‘see what they are writing. I don’t like this oh!’ He will just say, ‘no, don’t mind them, they will be tired of writing.’ And I will say, ‘this is what you keep on saying. You have to do something about this.’ He will just laugh it over.

Does it mean you get worried more than him?

You know, we women express our feelings faster than men. The man can be feeling bad, and he will not show it. In most cases, over time, I ignore all those criticisms.

How does it feel being a grandmother?

Great! Great!! Great!!! It’s one of the things one should be grateful to God, for keeping one alive to see your own grand children. It’s wonderful.

And you don’t look like a granny? What’s the secret?

Good heart. Good mind. Good goals. Be good.

What is your typical day like?

Full of activities, religious obligations, public works, household work, attending to visitors, attending to calls, attending to requests and demands, going to school, primary, secondary; traveling.

When do you wake up everyday?

Do I even sleep at night, as such? I can wake up anytime to say my prayers.

What next?

After prayers, because I am awake, I can go back to sleep for one hour.

Do you use the gym?

Occasionally, in the evening; not in the morning.

Do you do physical exercises alone or with your husband?

Well, our timings are not regular.

Is that deliberate?

No! Because I have much to do than him order than to sit down and attend to people, addressing their problems, here and there.

So you stay awake up till 12 mid-night or 1am?

It depends on what I have done during the day. It depends on my mood. My sleeping pattern is not for public consumption.

Is it true that you surf the Internet as a hobby?

Not a hobby. Go in and get what you want, and then get out. I have too much work to do.

Do you read Nigerian newspapers?

Yes, of course. I have even read before coming down (for the interview).

How do you sustain your fashion? Do you have special designers that you patronize or what?

This thing you people are talking about is gift. You either have it or you don’t. Let them leave me alone.

Do you patronize local fabrics and tailors?

I do, a lot.

What kind of designs do you go for?

I insist on making out what I want to wear.

What about perfumes?

Not particularly sticking to one.

Why?

Just like that; because I don’t want anybody to know the particular perfumes I am wearing. I go for soft, sweet perfumes. I have various types. I just go for any of them at any point in time. It’s a free world. Choose what you like.

Congratulations on your 59th birthday. It’s been a pleasure having this chat with you.

You are welcome! You have really taken my time. I have so much to do. Thank you!

nice insight even though some of the comments will continue to alienate them

dis tori too long!!

abeg summarize!